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Thread: That architecture is so ugly...Edmonton's list

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    Default That architecture is so ugly...Edmonton's list

    That architecture is so ugly...Edmonton's list

    The Edmonton Journal
    Published: Friday, December 01, 2006

    - The idea that people are affected emotionally by the buildings they are in is not new -- it guided the modernists of the early 20th century.

    The idea has resurfaced in the form of "the architecture of happiness," in Dwell (November), an architectural publication. It comes from British architect Alain de Botton, who says he was inspired "by how ugly most places are in the world."

    "We need buildings to be regular, but if they are too regular they get boring," he says. "And if they are too irregular they get chaotic ... At some level good architecture is psychological." De Botton adds that, in a way, he feels sorry for architects, "as there are too many of them."

    --30--


    What architecture in Edmonton do you think is ugly?

    What works anyway?

    What is beautiful?


    My seven “ugly” wonders of Edmonton.
    1. The “bat”.
    2. The Leg. Annex.
    3. The Shaw Conference Centre addition.
    4. The CN Tower.
    5. Cromdale Hotel.
    6. “Saveco” deserted eyesore on 108 Street.
    7. Terrace Building.

    My seven “some might consider it is ugly but I love it” wonders of Edmonton.

    1. The Butterdome at the U of A.
    2. Churchill Square.
    3. Canada Place.
    4. West Edmonton Mall (WEM).
    5. The Leduc # 1 Derrick.
    6. City of Champions & Capital City wooden signposts.
    7. All Edmonton Airports, the International, the Muni (City Centre) and Namao (YEG, YXD and YEA). I have been in and out of all of them and “coming home” to Edmonton is always beautiful.

    My seven “beautiful” wonders of Edmonton. (Seven is just not enough…)

    1. The river valley, the river valley…the river valley.
    2. The Legislature and grounds.
    3. The Fairmont MacDonald Hotel—the “Mac”.
    4. The restored CIBC building on Jasper and 101 Street.
    5. The Shaw Conference Centre—the original glass and engineering marvel.
    6. The Federal Building—let us re-open and use it for something already.
    7. City Hall (love those pyramids and the pool/skating rink!).

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    ok.....

    "My seven “ugly” wonders of Edmonton.
    1. The “bat”.
    2. The Leg. Annex.
    3. The Shaw Conference Centre addition.
    4. The CN Tower.
    5. Cromdale Hotel.
    6. “Saveco” deserted eyesore on 108 Street.
    7. Terrace Building. "


    CN tower.....for gods sake people....it is a GREAT GREAT example of 60's architecture and sure it needs a wax and spit shine, but good god it is truly better than most towers out there.

    SHAW hall D.....street level SUCKS...but the rest is as good as it gets....inside is very very nice and the wall with slight curve of what....30 feet of glass is amazing!
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    What the!? The CN in the ugly top seven!?

    No way should that go in the ugly top seven. Period. The CN Tower is a kind of architectural gem from the 1960s period here in Edmonton (though the first level is meh).

    Here's something you might want to add to the top seven ugliest - the Professional Building on the north side of Jasper between 109 and 108 St. just right by the Executive Lofts and the Fluid Lounge! It has got to be the FUGLIEST thing in downtown!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO

    ok.....

    CN tower.....for gods sake people....it is a GREAT GREAT example of 60's architecture and sure it needs a wax and spit shine, but good god it is truly better than most towers out there.

    SHAW hall D.....street level SUCKS...but the rest is as good as it gets....inside is very very nice and the wall with slight curve of what....30 feet of glass is amazing!
    Yup, I agree with all your comments but I still think it sticks out like a sore thumb and is not representative of Canadian National (CN) rail.

    I could care less what the SCCs Hall D looks and is like inside and from the river valley; the Jasper Avenue and 97th Street section looks like an afterthought and in no way blends in with the original SCC or the river valley. Edmonton had a chance to improve on a beautiful building (from every angle and viewpoint!) and did not.

    What should have been iconic instead is incongruous IMO.

  5. #5
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    guys, the CN tower is plain and ugly. believe it and move on.

    i know, i know--it is concave and convex at the same time, a great example of 60's, an iconic building, blah, blah blah...

    but it is boring as hell. the eye doesn't have much to rest on except what appears to be verictal white stripes and the monstrous podium. and the concave/convex thing--you have to get to the building to see it. the podium makes that feat not possible.

    ugly...

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    .........of all buildings in this damn city we are talking about the CN as ugly..........COME ON! There are a landfill of other examples....


    The CN is classic, simple, elegant, sexy........
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    .........of all buildings in this damn city we are talking about the CN as ugly..........COME ON! There are a landfill of other examples....


    The CN is classic, simple, elegant, sexy........
    Ian, Ian my man you need a new definition of classic, simple, elegant and sexy if you think the CN is any of these!

  8. #8

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    I'm with Ian and Mike on this one. CN is elegant and striking on our skyline. How about starting with 20-30 POS 1960/70s apartment buildings in Oliver, some of the crap on hill coming into dt from the south, or the offerings of TNP over the past 10 years, hell half of the crap in Stationlands. The saveco building has plenty of potential - nothing a little paint, some discreet new cladding, and a new tennant couldn't solve. Professional building - crap building - great mesh facade (as you may have heard me say before).

    DJ - I see you have a distinct classical bent in your tastes. Can't argue with your top 7, although still not totally convinced by city hall.

    Not totally sure of my top 7 but Coronation pool would be in there for sure - that thing is deadly. Likely the Brick condo building on Victoria Promenade too - just something sexy about it.

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    I think by far the worst are the ATB and Sunlife towers. Just think how much better the skyline would look from the river with a couple of sharp looking towers instead of those hunks of cement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    .........of all buildings in this damn city we are talking about the CN as ugly..........COME ON! There are a landfill of other examples....


    The CN is classic, simple, elegant, sexy........
    Ian, Ian my man you need a new definition of classic, simple, elegant and sexy if you think the CN is any of these!
    CN is Jackie O......IMO.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    .........of all buildings in this damn city we are talking about the CN as ugly..........COME ON! There are a landfill of other examples....


    The CN is classic, simple, elegant, sexy........
    Ian, Ian my man you need a new definition of classic, simple, elegant and sexy if you think the CN is any of these!
    CN is Jackie O......IMO.
    Point and counter point--game on!

  12. #12

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    Some of the worst architecture in Edmonton has only been built recently:

    Top 7 ugly or inappropriate new or proposed buildings:
    - Shaw Hall 'D' expansion - destroys the original marvel
    - Proposed expansion to Royal Alberta Museum - totally subverts an amazing Peter Hemingway building
    - The Legacy condos
    - Grand Central Manor buildings
    - Altavista
    - Perigrin Point
    - Railtown

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE
    Some of the worst architecture in Edmonton has only been built recently:

    Top 7 ugly or inappropriate new or proposed buildings:
    - Shaw Hall 'D' expansion - destroys the original marvel
    - Proposed expansion to Royal Alberta Museum - totally subverts an amazing Peter Hemingway building
    - The Legacy condos
    - Grand Central Manor buildings
    - Altavista
    - Perigrin Point
    - Railtown
    Concur, but why stop at seven?

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    Quote Originally Posted by murman
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE
    Some of the worst architecture in Edmonton has only been built recently:

    Top 7 ugly or inappropriate new or proposed buildings:
    - Shaw Hall 'D' expansion - destroys the original marvel
    - Proposed expansion to Royal Alberta Museum - totally subverts an amazing Peter Hemingway building
    - The Legacy condos
    - Grand Central Manor buildings
    - Altavista
    - Perigrin Point
    - Railtown
    Concur, but why stop at seven?

    some of us need to go home at night...
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    For anyone who hates the CN building, I would suggest imagining it without the CN logo on the top.

    Normally I'm a fan (or at least tolerant) of logos on buildings. That's partly due to some of the buildings that we have in town - like Sunlife and EPCOR - where the logo actually makes them more interesting.

    For the CN building though the logo totally ruins the flow. The penthouse should be integral to the building, but the logo makes it look like it's just a billboard that was plunked on top. In my opinion it greatly lessens the impact of the overall design.

    And as for the RAM as an architectural gem, I will agree that it's south face and front entrance is excellent. The north elevation that faces 102 Ave though? It's hideous, and the second phase of the expansion can't come soon enough.

    My personal favorite building has got to be the old Federal building. It's got lightning bolt door handles...how can you beat that?

    My personal worst would be Peregrine Point. It makes me cry.

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    All the Legislature buildings (except the Leg...) need to be imploded. (Leg annex must be one of them, just not sure which building that is). If there are 7 then they are my top seven. If there are only 2 or 3 then thats my list. If we get rid of those festulent blobs of goo then the whole city will look 10 times nicer IMHO, including Hall D. Just you wait and see..

    CN Tower is, well, fine. (shrug)

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    What about the Tabernacle Church building? It's striking and different, by Peter Hemingway, but maybe not typically beautiful.

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    Default Re: That architecture is so ugly...Edmonton's list

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl

    My seven “ugly” wonders of Edmonton.
    1. The “bat”.
    2. The Leg. Annex.
    3. The Shaw Conference Centre addition.
    4. The CN Tower.
    5. Cromdale Hotel.
    6. “Saveco” deserted eyesore on 108 Street.
    7. Terrace Building.
    Remove CN Tower, add Baccarat Casino and I'm with ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    My seven “some might consider it is ugly but I love it” wonders of Edmonton.

    1. The Butterdome at the U of A.
    2. Churchill Square.
    3. Canada Place.
    4. West Edmonton Mall (WEM).
    5. The Leduc # 1 Derrick.
    6. City of Champions & Capital City wooden signposts.
    7. All Edmonton Airports, the International, the Muni (City Centre) and Namao (YEG, YXD and YEA). I have been in and out of all of them and “coming home” to Edmonton is always beautiful.
    WEM? Surely you jest?
    And weren't we all laughing at the 70's style font of the Edmonton logo last night?

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    My seven “beautiful” wonders of Edmonton. (Seven is just not enough…)

    1. The river valley, the river valley…the river valley.
    2. The Legislature and grounds.
    3. The Fairmont MacDonald Hotel—the “Mac”.
    4. The restored CIBC building on Jasper and 101 Street.
    5. The Shaw Conference Centre—the original glass and engineering marvel.
    6. The Federal Building—let us re-open and use it for something already.
    7. City Hall (love those pyramids and the pool/skating rink!).
    The Fed is a great building, but it's off my list while it's just sitting empty.
    Replace with Muttart Conservatory or WTC

  19. #19

    Default Re: That architecture is so ugly...Edmonton's list

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl

    My seven “ugly” wonders of Edmonton.
    1. The “bat”.
    2. The Leg. Annex.
    3. The Shaw Conference Centre addition.
    4. The CN Tower.
    5. Cromdale Hotel.
    6. “Saveco” deserted eyesore on 108 Street.
    7. Terrace Building.
    Remove CN Tower, add Baccarat Casino and I'm with ya.

    Not sure if I want to remove the CN Tower but ya the Baccarat Casino is worthy of being on this list as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    My seven “some might consider it is ugly but I love it” wonders of Edmonton.

    1. The Butterdome at the U of A.
    2. Churchill Square.
    3. Canada Place.
    4. West Edmonton Mall (WEM).
    5. The Leduc # 1 Derrick.
    6. City of Champions & Capital City wooden signposts.
    7. All Edmonton Airports, the International, the Muni (City Centre) and Namao (YEG, YXD and YEA). I have been in and out of all of them and “coming home” to Edmonton is always beautiful.
    WEM? Surely you jest?

    Nope, yes it is so gaudy, touristy and cliche and hey I like it!

    And weren't we all laughing at the 70's style font of the Edmonton logo last night?

    Yup, don't like the font more than time to update! I want to see these signposts updated and added to as I mentioned last night--I guess what I "like" is the familarilty, symbolism and emotion that the signposts evoke.

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    My seven “beautiful” wonders of Edmonton. (Seven is just not enough…)

    1. The river valley, the river valley…the river valley.
    2. The Legislature and grounds.
    3. The Fairmont MacDonald Hotel—the “Mac”.
    4. The restored CIBC building on Jasper and 101 Street.
    5. The Shaw Conference Centre—the original glass and engineering marvel.
    6. The Federal Building—let us re-open and use it for something already.
    7. City Hall (love those pyramids and the pool/skating rink!).
    The Fed is a great building, but it's off my list while it's just sitting empty.

    Yes, the Muttart Conservatory would be on my 7) a...list. But the old Fed is just so cool, those floors etc.

    The WTC are you kidding? Few people know that this is what it is now called and the restored CIBC building on 101 and Jasper is much nicer and more representative. And don't even get me on the "addition" of the Ruth Chris's signage--simply detracts. (As an aside, the BMO bank in Winnipeg on Portage and Main--now that is an impressive bank!)

    How about the MacLeod Building or the building where Audrey's Bookstore (the name escapes me this second!) is located on 108th St?

    Replace with Muttart Conservatory or WTC

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    I'd remove the CN tower, and add the entire Long Street complex on 104th Ave. ...

    What is a suburban strip mall doing that close to downtown? And a relentlessly mundane strip mall at that....

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    CN is my favorite office tower in the city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE
    - Proposed expansion to Royal Alberta Museum - totally subverts an amazing Peter Hemingway building
    The Museum is NOT a Hemingway as far as I know.

    Further, the addition does not subvert the original building, IMO. It's the 2nd phase renos that concern me.

  23. #23

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    I figure to add my list now, so here I go.

    1. Perigrine Pointe - by far, the worst looking building in all of Edmonton... no questions asked. This was completed in '04! What the heck?

    2. The Leg. Annex

    3. Grand Central Manor - or almost anything TNP builds. The Century is their best yet, and that isn't saying much. You should see the Russian Commie block they are building in Montreal.

    3. Canadian National Bank building - long story, ugly building, prime location.

    4. Stanley A. Milner Library - The reno is like lipstick on a pig.... A very ugly pig.

    5. All of railtown... what a disappointment.

    Far too many Brutalist buidings to name... but you know where I'm headed and get the point...



    that's it for now. I'll add some more later.

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    Milner = #1 bad

    TELUS Toll = #2 bad. EdTel's Main Wire Center was at least brick.

    Whatever that gold trimmed building on 100th and Jasper (old bank) next to Hops....Ka Blewie and #3 bad

    #4 bad = city hall...KIDDING...put your eyes back in. 103 ave west of city hall, now that's BAD BAD BAD. All buildings until Bell.


    I could go on, but you see a trend. There is enough bad in this city.

    For the CN Tower debate, I am OK with it, but to me it looks unfinished. Probably because it is, it was supposed to be a part of a larger complex.

    I'll get a list of good next...unfortuantely there is not much. I can agree with the comments on Hall D's interior though, the view is spectacular.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    BAD
    -Oddysium (after renos) - Cardinal doesn't make it easy, but you gotta at least try.
    -City Centre West (Eaton Center) - lifeless hulk
    -GMCC residence building
    -Police Headquarters
    -Many too Many residential towers all over town have been done so poorly


    GOOD
    -Coronation Pool
    -Westin Hotel
    -St.John Ambulance building
    -Old Planetarium (wish the city would do something with it)
    -Citadel Theatre
    -GMCC downtown campus
    -Liberty / Executive building (bookends)
    -Public Schoolboard building(i think) @ 142 street NW of 111 ave
    -That recessed glass foyer building at Faculty St.Jean

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    Good:
    - Manulife Place - probably my favorite skyscraper in Edmonton!
    - City Hall
    - Westin Hotel
    - Hotel Macdonald
    - Shaw Conference Centre
    - Coronation Pool
    - The restored CIBC building on Jasper and 101 St.

    Bad:
    - Peregrine Point
    - Legacy
    - GMCC Rez - UGH.
    - Stanley A. Milner Library - A half-assed reno job, and a bad one at that!!
    - Railtown, especially those condo towers and the seniors centre.
    - Henry Marshall Tory Building in the U of A - it's the white highrise in the northeast part of the U of A Main Campus grounds.
    - WEM - especially the most recent addition with the IMAX theatre in it. Looks like someone was on LSD or something while designing that addition!

  27. #27
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    Good:

    -City Hall
    -1st Phase of the courts(queens bench) is the only good brutalist building
    -Commerce Place
    -The Leg.
    -original Conference Centre
    -Muttart
    -U of A hospital (original)- cool interior

    Bad-
    -Railtown is all either not dense enough or too ugly.
    -Milner Library - the lipstick is aweful
    -Grant Mac Res - a colorful commie-block
    -Any big parkade, especially the one on 104th with Sidetrack in it.
    -Hall D. Who approved that wall? and who told them that it had to be that tall?
    -Remand Centre.
    -2001 additions to commonwealth. Way to think small.

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    Nice building list

    1. RCMP K Division
    2. St. John's Ambulance Building
    3. St. Josephs High School
    4. The new LRT Station at the Uof A
    5. WTC Building
    6. Canada Place
    7. Many older churches in our community
    8. Commonwealth Stadium
    9. Renos done to the Stantec Building
    10. The majority of the Convention Centre
    11. City Hall
    12. The newer building on Whyte Ave

    Too many more to list.

    As for the list of ugly buildings:

    1. Too bad we always focus on the negative in this city.

  29. #29

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    ^ I think it is justified in the case of architecture in Edmonton because there is so much more bad architecture than good. There are some nice buildings in Edmonton and proposed for the future. Problem is for every nice building - St. Johns, RCMP - we get two or more bad (Peregrine, Hall d - these should count double due to their prominent locations - stationlands and the TNP towers). Hell, our best modern building (IMO) is a swimming pool built bearly thirty years ago. Unless this is pointed out and a better built environment is demanded, it will never change.

    I'm not demanding great architecture everytime, rather just a basic solid design. The new building on Whyte is an example of that: simple, clean and context specific. Was that so hard? Look at the low rises at century park - basic, simple and very nice contemporary design. But then we get the Venetian - in a former industrial area no less.

  30. #30

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    I'm biased (I live in this building), but what about the MacLeod Building right across from the Westin? It was built in 1912 (or 1915?) and could be one of the best examples of Chicago-style architecture west of Winnipeg...

    as for worst... I would have to say Leg Annex, mostly because it is not only architecturally hideous, but also blocks the view of the Legislature Building from the River Valley

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    Nice building list

    1. RCMP K Division
    2. St. John's Ambulance Building
    3. St. Josephs High School
    4. The new LRT Station at the Uof A
    5. WTC Building
    6. Canada Place
    7. Many older churches in our community
    8. Commonwealth Stadium
    9. Renos done to the Stantec Building
    10. The majority of the Convention Centre
    11. City Hall
    12. The newer building on Whyte Ave

    Too many more to list.
    I really do like K division....probably not #1 as the Prince of Wales armoury is one of my favorites...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    I agree we have some poorly designed buildings in the city but there are many to be to proud of

    1. Alberta College downtown on MacDonald Drive
    2. GMCC downtown
    3. New fire hall on 167 Ave
    4. New apartment building on Jasper Ave and 90 St
    5. New condos on 98 Avenue east of James MacDonald Bridge
    6. New development in Griesbach
    7. Old Scona Public Library

    Every city has it's poor architecture. Focus on the good stuff.

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    That would be great if crap wasn't being continually built...ahem...LEGACY...ahem....
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  34. #34
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    Yeah, Century at least aspired to be average, but the legacy is crap.

    We also need our new stuff to be top-notch because many of the quick-builds of the 70's-83 are really bad. I know because I lived in a couple of cast slabs. The suite was big, but on the outside I can't deny the uglyness.

    We have a low average right now, and we need a few more As if we expect to pass.

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    I thought connect2edmonton was about promoting the city .... I guess I was wrong.... too bad

  36. #36
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    It does promote edmonton, but we can also encourage ourselves to be better.

    I've noticed that some buildings have been voted both ugly and beautiful. I don't mind those ones because to be noticed like that they must at least be visually interesting. Most of what I have a problem with falls into one of 2 catagories:
    1. Built cheap for a quick buck- like the legacy or Peregrine point, the ugly results from low quality.
    2. "Good One Side" buildings that are built to be nice on one side but don't care what the other side looks like/blocks. Hall D, The terrace building, and the grant mac res both fit in this group.

    We don't need to demand that every building be a masterpiece, but we can ask that they build quality and consider all their neighbours, especially on public projects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    I thought connect2edmonton was about promoting the city .... I guess I was wrong.... too bad
    It does both...it is to promote the city but we are not afraid to criticize and suggest improvments. We definitely want to let folks know that there is a strong belief that "zero tolerance for crap" is not just the mayor speaking....

    People who come here are not going to see just boosters, but a site dedicated to change...and sometimes it starts with criticizm.

    You are right, there are things here done right. I'll guarantee you'll find more promotional people here than negative. After all, we wouldn't be organizing this RV tour to promote Edmonton if we were negative, would we??
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    I though this was appropriate here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal
    Sunday » December 3 » 2006

    The sadness of the strip mall
    Sure they're convenient. Couldn't they also be beautiful?

    Todd Babiak
    The Edmonton Journal


    Sunday, December 03, 2006



    CREDIT: Shaughn Butts, The Journal
    The High Street is decorated for Christmas.

    More Columns By This Writer
    :: Is Ted good for the reds?

    :: Unto them there came a glorious spending season. And they were glad

    :: It's the highway -- or Tony's Way

    :: City must reclaim Whyte Avenue from the yobs

    :: Readers feel the warmth of Stuart McLean's humour

    :: Get off your high horse



    Edmonton is designed for cars. Dream homes are built according to patterns, without genuine architectural input, in faraway neighbourhoods served by power centres and strip malls. Complaining about this is akin to complaining about fast food, reality television, litter, BUM Equipment fashion and the state of hip-hop music today. The complainer ends up sounding precious and contrary.

    It makes people happy, goes the standard rebuttal, so shut up.

    Despite the standard rebuttal, in the past year, two proposed cultural buildings have been front-page stories. Mayor Stephen Mandel publicly chided villainous developers who have, since 1970, made our city home to some of the ugliest structures outside the former Soviet Union. The Art Gallery of Alberta has sponsored a number of riotously successful lectures and debates about architecture and urban planning.

    Just as Edmontonians learned to be theatre-literate in the 1980s, they are developing a popular interest in architecture. Noticing and questioning new and old development, like responding confidently to a boring play by a writer we admire, involves a hint of pain. Can we despise the development and love the city?

    "(S)ensitivity to architecture ... has its more problematic aspects," writes Alain de Botton, in his illuminating new book The Architecture of Happiness. "If one room can alter how we feel, if our happiness can hang on the colour of the walls or the shape of a door, what will happen to us in most of the places we are forced to look at and inhabit?"

    Briefly, de Botton argues against his own outlook. "Echoing the attitude of Stoic philosophers or St Bernard around Lake Geneva, we may find ourselves arguing that, ultimately, it doesn't much matter what buildings look like, what is on the ceiling or how the wall is treated -- professions of detachment that stem not so much from an insensitivity to beauty as from a desire to deflect the sadness we would face if we left ourselves open to all of beauty's many absences."

    There is a correlation between architecture and happiness, a strong one, and it is worth fighting for better collective decisions. Most of us do not have the financial means to hire an architect, but we can lobby city council and reward commercial developments that take architecture and urban planning into account.

    For example, contrast the many kilometres of alienating, bunker-like strip malls that line Gateway Boulevard and Stony Plain Road west of 142nd Street with a development like The High Street at the intersection of Glenora and Oliver.

    "We're trying to make strip malls more pleasant," says Vivian Manasc, of Manasc Isaac Architects. "But the architectural role in these types of developments is so minimal. We would love to have a role in it, but this is almost always about money, and formula. It has little to do with, say, quality of life -- which is the architectural way of looking at things."

    Manasc finds The High Street very pleasant, but the strip mall, as conceived in this part of the world, is entirely flawed. "When you walk past a location like Jasper Avenue and 109th Street, and you see Starbucks and all these shops surrounded by parking, with the apartments set in behind, you say, 'Wait a minute, shouldn't there be four or six storeys of housing above the retail?' I think our focus now, from an urban design perspective, isn't so much on making more pleasant strip malls. It's how can we get more mixed-use zoning and less single-use zoning?"

    Every study shows that living in a neighbourhood where you can walk to get your morning coffee, your bread and milk and tomatoes, even your new T-shirt, makes you happier and healthier. Building more of these neighbourhoods, as the city evolves, is an architectural and urban planning imperative. But moving away from the strip mall, even the pleasant one, would be like breaking a civic heroin habit.

    Of course, replacing the off-grey bomb shelter with parking, anchored by a Blockbuster, with an elegant eight-storey condominium featuring shops on the main floor, might still make us sad. In a different way. "Our sadness won't be of the searing kind but more like a blend of joy and melancholy;" writes de Botton, "joy at the perfection we see before us, melancholy at an awareness of how seldom we are sufficiently blessed to encounter anything of its kind."

    [email protected]

    © The Edmonton Journal 2006








    Copyright © 2006 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    I agree that discussion is good and we have to send the message out that we will not put up with crap but we have to be careful not to overdo the negative. In regards to strip malls I noticed a new one was built east of 97 street on 107A Ave. In keeping with the area why did they not put the parking in the rear and move the buildings up to the sidewalks. You could have the entrance at the back. It looks okay but it could have looked better with the parking at the back.

    Good looking building was just put up across from Alex Taylor School on the north side of Jasper Avenue.

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    One group of buildings that I really like are the elementary schools built in the late 40's such as Forest Heights and Delton.
    There are about a dozen that are nearly identical but all have individual quirks.
    I like the use of curved glass block walls and the art-deco inspired gyms and roof top air conditioning structures.
    They are classic, well thought out designs that have stood up well over the years and are still serving there original purpose.

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    That's a good article on strip malls.

    I've always liked the Allard block on Jasper, the one anchored by Joeys. Rear parking, sidewalk-facing, patios and a middle plaza. It's no surprise that it's a popular area of Jasper Ave. Regardless if part of a mixed-use high-density project or not, I want to see at least more retail concepts like this in our core urban areas (downtown, Whyte, High Street) because there's way too much of the utilitarian front-parking ones.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor
    as for worst... I would have to say Leg Annex, mostly because it is not only architecturally hideous, but also blocks the view of the Legislature Building from the River Valley
    I think that you're confusing the Devonian Bldg with the Annex.

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    I thought connect2edmonton was about promoting the city .... I guess I was wrong.... too bad
    It does both...it is to promote the city but we are not afraid to criticize and suggest improvments. We definitely want to let folks know that there is a strong belief that "zero tolerance for crap" is not just the mayor speaking....

    People who come here are not going to see just boosters, but a site dedicated to change...and sometimes it starts with criticizm.

    You are right, there are things here done right. I'll guarantee you'll find more promotional people here than negative. After all, we wouldn't be organizing this RV tour to promote Edmonton if we were negative, would we??
    "Every city has its poor architecture. Focus on the good stuff."

    That is why I started this post with the poor and then went to the quirky and finished off with the IMO beautiful architecture.

    I was glad to see debate over some of my “choices” as that was my intention. People will always consider what one person considers beautiful “ugly” as evidenced here.

    Some of my deliberate did not mention also found their way here such as:
    1. City Centre Campus of MacEwan and MacEwan’s Alberta College.
    2. RCMP/GRC “K” division.
    3. The St. Johns Ambulance building (coolest stairways!).
    4. The Prince of Wales Armory.
    5. The Winspear.
    6. The Citadel.
    7. The Old Scona Public Library.

    I was gratified to have people obviously look around Edmonton and say, “wait a minute what about this building?”

    Some not mentioned as I thought they would be:
    1. Government House (all those weddings photos here every year and no one mentions it?).
    2. St. Joseph’s Basilica, St. Joachim, and the Central Tabernacle (the singing Christmas tree RIP.) We have some beautiful churches and no matter what denomination you cannot help but love the beauty expressed.
    3. Commonwealth Stadium.
    4. Jubilee Auditorium.
    5. The High Level Bridge (and or especially with the waterfall).
    6. The Gibson Block (very cool flat iron architecture). The East Jasper Avenue Revitalization cannot come soon enough.
    7. Canada Place.

    I focus on the good that we have here in Edmonton but also do not want complacency to set in.

    Edmonton can suffer from self-esteem issues and IMO for too long we accepted what ever we could get. Much like younger siblings in a large family we have taken hand-me downs and slop shod design as we felt it was all we were going to get. (Furthermore, Edmonton seemed to believe that was all we deserved.)

    Edmonton we are all grown up. One hundred and two years of growing has us here on a precipice. We are a million people strong in the Greater Edmonton area—time to come of age.

    Do we start demanding real longstanding eternal and iconic beauty or continue to accept “lipstick on pigs? What is it going to be?

    What we accept now will be the legacy our grandchildren can debate on C2E “The Sequel”. Let us give them too many choices.

    Respectfully,

    DJ

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by murman
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor
    as for worst... I would have to say Leg Annex, mostly because it is not only architecturally hideous, but also blocks the view of the Legislature Building from the River Valley
    I think that you're confusing the Devonian Bldg with the Annex.
    My bad... I think the building I was talking about is actually called the Terrace Building.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor
    Quote Originally Posted by murman
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor
    as for worst... I would have to say Leg Annex, mostly because it is not only architecturally hideous, but also blocks the view of the Legislature Building from the River Valley
    I think that you're confusing the Devonian Bldg with the Annex.
    My bad... I think the building I was talking about is actually called the Terrace Building.
    Even better. How I confused Devonian with Terrace is beyond me. My badder.

  46. #46
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    No mur....you da baddest....
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    Butterdome made huffington posts 10 ugliest buildings in Canada list:

    http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/12051022

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Butterdome made huffington posts 10 ugliest buildings in Canada list:

    http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/12051022
    I believe it says "10 of" not "10 ugliest".

    In my opinion it's not ugly, it's just different. Moreover, several of the buildings pictured in the article look rather interesting and definitely not ugly.

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
    What the!? The CN in the ugly top seven!?

    No way should that go in the ugly top seven. Period. The CN Tower is a kind of architectural gem from the 1960s period here in Edmonton (though the first level is meh).

    Here's something you might want to add to the top seven ugliest - the Professional Building on the north side of Jasper between 109 and 108 St. just right by the Executive Lofts and the Fluid Lounge! It has got to be the FUGLIEST thing in downtown!
    This is a very old post, but so what. These are even older buildings and if it's ok to comment on old buildings, why not comment on old posts, old concepts, old thinking, etc.?

    So.... on another thread there are some old photos that show the interior as once being really cool looking. So, is "ugly" only defined as the exterior front view or the overall interior/exterior as a whole?
    Last edited by KC; 18-09-2016 at 06:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Butterdome made huffington posts 10 ugliest buildings in Canada list:

    http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/12051022
    I believe it says "10 of" not "10 ugliest".

    In my opinion it's not ugly, it's just different. Moreover, several of the buildings pictured in the article look rather interesting and definitely not ugly.
    I agree. I didn't think most of the buildings were that bad. I liked a few of them. But you're right, they weren't being called the ugliest... just ugly.

  51. #51

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    The Butterdome I wish was on the bank of the river valley. It kind of loses whatever potential charm it could have where it is now.

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBear View Post
    The Butterdome I wish was on the bank of the river valley. It kind of loses whatever potential charm it could have where it is now.
    It has no window and why place it on a land with view?

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by eons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JBear View Post
    The Butterdome I wish was on the bank of the river valley. It kind of loses whatever potential charm it could have where it is now.
    It has no window and why place it on a land with view?
    Good point.

    Much of our modern architecture is just boxes with cosmetic features glued to the sides. Maybe stacked in creative ways. Or just glass boxes. The butter done has a curved roofline. I sure don't see it as anything great but look around. Any old superstore or giant warehouse is far, far uglier.

  54. #54

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    The hidden ways that architecture affects how you feel
    Excerpt:

    “This adds a layer of information that is otherwise difficult to get at,” said Colin Ellard, who researches the psychological impact of design at the University of Waterloo in Canada. “When we ask people about their stress they say it’s no big deal, yet when we measure their physiology we discover that their responses are off the charts. The difficulty is that your physiological state is the one that impacts your health.” Taking a closer look at these physiological states could shed light on how city design affects our bodies.

    One of Ellard’s most consistent findings is that people are strongly affected by building façades. If the façade is..."

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2017...r-citys-design
    Last edited by KC; 06-06-2017 at 09:01 PM.

  55. #55

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    There are many, many buildings in Edmonton that are disappointingly functional, anonymous, usually big, boxes, with excessive parking lots, signage, air-balloon ads and the fashionable gimmick of the day -- whether spotlights or ventilated waving anthropoid figures or whatever.

    But true ugliness is something else.

    The ugliest building we have -- built on the bones of what used to be a quiet little tasteful masterpiece -- is the art gallery on Churchill square. Its pretension is both vomitous and dated.

  56. #56

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    The new RAM is not even open and already its a dated mausoleum. Just brutal use of exterior finishes and drab and cold and depressing looking place for a winter city. The article above cites that architecture, like any art or surroundings effects how you feel. The new RAM is boring and depressing looking. I could say drab, but it would be doing the design a favor.

    Unfortunately this RAM is a new entry on this list of ugly architecture in Edmonton.

    I was reading through the thread. What is the "Bat"
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post

    The ugliest building we have -- built on the bones of what used to be a quiet little tasteful masterpiece -- is the art gallery on Churchill square. Its pretension is both vomitous and dated.
    I agree. That style of in-your-face idiosyncrasy is well past its best-before date, and even if it was still current, it does not at all match, even in a juxtapositionary way, the other buildings on the Square.

  58. #58
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    As for the identity of "the bat", I'm guessing maybe they mean, quite literally, the giant baseball bat on 118th?

  59. #59

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    ^Could be. I forgot that existed. I thought it was an inside nickname on some building or a take on Bacarat.

    This is interesting time capsule stuff though. Nobody talks about the big bat anymore. A lot of other art works have removed that from the focus. We have such an assortment of odd art.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post

    The ugliest building we have -- built on the bones of what used to be a quiet little tasteful masterpiece -- is the art gallery on Churchill square. Its pretension is both vomitous and dated.
    I agree. That style of in-your-face idiosyncrasy is well past its best-before date, and even if it was still current, it does not at all match, even in a juxtapositionary way, the other buildings on the Square.


    I like variety in styles and see value in most styles but we get the copycat, fad following behaviour of developers, architects and decision makers so everything gets overdone.* Then there's the periods where a mass sense of austerity, or one of making a quick buck pervades all thinking and is used to justify all kinds of crap.


    Eg I've always loved modernism but now it's showing up everywhere again. Brutalism, Art Deco, Streamline Moderne etc aren't cycling yet. Why not?

    Very, very few will take a risk so all the sheep like people won't approve of anything that they haven't seen a current example of elsewhere.

    Who drives a brightly coloured vehicle here? I bet we all have grey, silver, white, black, beige...

    How about; purple, orange, lime green? Yet some vehicles look their best with the 'wild' colours nonetheless, I highly doubt it many on c2e are risk takers themselves. People tend to see only the colour and not how well it may work with a particular design.

    Same thing in buildings, people's looks (hair clothes, etc) If they stand out as 'different' there's a base gut reaction to the uncommon without any sense of appreciation as to how good the overall design might be. People often can't see the intrinsic value of something until someone else points it out to them. Just watch Antiques Roadshow to see this reappraisal by dollar value work wonders in converting people's perceptions of things from crap into gold and gold into crap.
    Last edited by KC; 07-06-2017 at 09:17 AM.

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    Oh, and in the category of "some might consider it ugly but I love it"...

    The big red ATCO(or whatever it is now) building on 105th, south of Jasper. I love the way it both quotes and overwhelms the little red church next to it. Even sort of blends into the church, via a shared courtyard.

    And the two adjacent high-rise apartment buildings in the Capilano area, this one and this one, are a striking addition to the otherwise unremarkable southeast skyline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Could be. I forgot that existed.
    What?! Forget the bat? Jesus, man, that's like Parisians forgetting Notre Dame!

  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Could be. I forgot that existed.
    What?! Forget the bat? Jesus, man, that's like Parisians forgetting Notre Dame!
    heh

    I live in Millwoods. I rarely get to the north side of town anymore. Haven't driven past there in years. I do hit up Alberta Avenue sometimes but not all the way to 97st area.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  64. #64

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    Yeah that bat on 118th. just seems to be out of left field. It serves no purpose where it is. Should maybe be in a park or something.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Should be in a scrapyard, more like.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  66. #66

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    Hate hate hate!

    The bat is brilliant. It moves for crying out loud. Its a 20 foot metal bat that spins. Thats neat. Placement is a big issue. This should be by our Baseball Field. Edmonton has great art, the fact we dedicate 1% of budgets to Art is brilliant. But our problem is tying the art to the location of the project. I dunno, 1 - 118 Ave Bat Fan here.
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    That does make sense, Komrade. Why the heck is it in it's current location, anyway?
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  68. #68

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    The bat swings?!

    How long does one have to be passed out on a corner or on what type of shrooms to notice that. I've never noticed it moves. Mind you I don't see moving fire hydrants and moving parked cars either...

    The location, as is often the case with these things is awful.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    That does make sense, Komrade. Why the heck is it in it's current location, anyway?
    the bat is the "anchor piece" for the avenue of champions. unlike the city of champions, the avenue of champions was intended to celebrate the city's sports heritage. you can also see the branding in the metal banners on the avenue's light poles that feature a wide range of sporting activities...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    "Avenue of Champions" was an utter failure, and the giant bat a feeble attempt at emulating Vegreville for having a biggest-something attraction.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  71. #71

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    Well, Avenue of Champions is certainly past it's prime in regards to our sports teams. Not in the way you are thinking, are teams are still great. It's in the way they are represented along the Avenue. Those signs are dated for the Avenue. The Avenue does not give off a sports vibe, never really has. Now that Northlands Arena is not longer the home of the Oilers it gives off even less of a vibe. Those sports chachkies dangling from the lights are past their prime (if they ever reached it). The bat should be moved to a park where actual baseball is played even if that is just kids playing it. Then the space that was allotted for the baseball bat could then be designated for a Monument of the Stupidity of city council.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    That does make sense, Komrade. Why the heck is it in it's current location, anyway?
    the bat is the "anchor piece" for the avenue of champions. unlike the city of champions, the avenue of champions was intended to celebrate the city's sports heritage. you can also see the branding in the metal banners on the avenue's light poles that feature a wide range of sporting activities...
    Thanks.
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    The pet store place, G&E Pharmacy on 82 ave & 73 street. Personally, I think it's the ugliest building in the city, thank god its not very big.
    Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

  74. #74

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    So I have conflicting reports. Some people say the bat swings. Other sources say it is fixed in place. Which is it? I always thought it was a stationary art piece.

    Gotta say it as well but this work was critiqued from the word go. I don't know that it ever got love. Its not a case of is seeming a stupid idea now, it always drew critical reaction.

    ps, back to the thread in general a quote in the OP states regarding buildings;

    "If they are too regular they get boring and if they are too irregular they get chaotic"

    That's interesting in that Edmonton has a lot of safe unimaginative, generic box buildings combined with a lot of the copy cat "chaotic" buildings. Lacking are builds that are more unique and interesting on their own. Hub Mall was one of the few of these until they redid the roof and skylights. Now it doesn't work the same, doesn't have the same lighting appeal.

    I'll add one here that I never really liked, it fits the chaotic mold, the first phase Space Sciences Center. It always seemed a loopy build to me and a real design over function build that put more focus on exterior look (could never figure that out) vs hard to utilize interior space that was also very limited. That one seemed to get love, and I think it was Douglas Cardinal, but I never understood the work. Conceptually I don't know what it was emulating or being reminiscent of. To me a confusing work. I love everything Cardinal has done EXCEPT this work which never spoke to me, which was clad in monotone white, pointed edges, immediately hostile looking. But not even in an interesting way. Everything from the cladding to the color was unattractive, uninviting. When people talk about Caridinals work they hardly talk about this one. Something went wrong conceptually with this work.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-06-2017 at 09:25 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  75. #75

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    The base is stationary but the bat swings from/on the base. It's not overly complicated or mechanical. The reason it was put there has long gone.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    The pet store place, G&E Pharmacy on 82 ave & 73 street. Personally, I think it's the ugliest building in the city, thank god its not very big.
    Pretty much all of Whyte south of 75th is a depressing eyesore.

    And I say this as someone who actually likes forlorn urban wastelands. Not sure why the east end of 82nd brings me so down; maybe 'cuz I grew up not far from there, so it kind of seems like the junk heap in your own backyard.
    Last edited by overoceans; 09-06-2017 at 10:01 AM.

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    To me a confusing work. I love everything Cardinal has done EXCEPT this work which never spoke to me, which was clad in monotone white, pointed edges, immediately hostile looking.
    It's one of the less circular and "land-centric" of his works. I think maybe he was thinking of the scientific aspect of the buidling, and that put him in a more hard-edged frame of mind.

    All in all, that's one that probably would have been better assigned to Hemingway, whose pyramids would vaguely fit in with the astronomical themes. (Truth be told, I overall prefer Hemingway to Cardinal, though there is no denying the brilliance of either).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    That does make sense, Komrade. Why the heck is it in it's current location, anyway?
    the bat is the "anchor piece" for the avenue of champions. unlike the city of champions, the avenue of champions was intended to celebrate the city's sports heritage. you can also see the branding in the metal banners on the avenue's light poles that feature a wide range of sporting activities...
    I understand the intent, although in practice perhaps it should be a little more obvious.

    Relocate to Re-Max Field? John Fry Park or other Edmonton Ball Diamond area?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The base is stationary but the bat swings from/on the base. It's not overly complicated or mechanical. The reason it was put there has long gone.
    If someone did a Fearless Girl-type addition to that bat, there probably wouldn't be much complaint.

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    To me a confusing work. I love everything Cardinal has done EXCEPT this work which never spoke to me, which was clad in monotone white, pointed edges, immediately hostile looking.
    It's one of the less circular and "land-centric" of his works. I think maybe he was thinking of the scientific aspect of the buidling, and that put him in a more hard-edged frame of mind.

    All in all, that's one that probably would have been better assigned to Hemingway, whose pyramids would vaguely fit in with the astronomical themes. (Truth be told, I overall prefer Hemingway to Cardinal, though there is no denying the brilliance of either).
    There are some preliminary drawings of the ESSC out there that look a lot better. The end result looks to me like it got hit by a hard case of value engineering.
    There can only be one.

  81. #81

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    @ Overoceans and Highlander

    I too think Cardinal got kind of tied on this design. Its atypical of his works that usually feature natural material exteriors of some sort. Going for a hard look and possibly one that got value engineered? Possibly. Would be interested in seeing other renders of the ESSC. The finished product doesn't work. To me its just ugly. What parts of his design got reworked for value engineering? This is the least loved of his buildings anywhere. Even Cardinal himself doesn't talk about it.
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  82. #82
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    Instead of bitching about the buildings we don't like, how about we start a thread about the attractive buildings we have in this city (and there are lots of them)

  83. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Instead of bitching about the buildings we don't like, how about we start a thread about the attractive buildings we have in this city (and there are lots of them)
    Instead of pitifully and uselessly whining, start one, or shut up.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Instead of bitching about the buildings we don't like, how about we start a thread about the attractive buildings we have in this city (and there are lots of them)
    Already been done.

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Instead of bitching about the buildings we don't like, how about we start a thread about the attractive buildings we have in this city (and there are lots of them)
    Instead of bitching about bitching why not go in the right thread and put your comments in there.

    Plus people have mentioned buildings they liked. I mentioned Hub Mall, another poster mentioned Hemingways local work, notably coronation pool, as a great build. Sound like you just wanted to chirp at somebody. Friday not good enough for you?
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  86. #86
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    another poster mentioned Hemingways local work, notably coronation pool
    I'm not sure if anyone besides me mentioned Hemingway by name, but for the record, my favorite piece by him is the Muttart, and in fact it's probably my favorite building in the whole city. It just fits so well into the valley.

    I also liked Central Pentecostal, though it probably would've worked a bit better in another neighbourhood. Coronation Pool is nice, but not anywhere near one of my favs.

  87. #87

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    Sorry, I took that as out of context assumption. Most of Hemingways fans love the Coronation Pool. I like all of his works. A tragedy that Central Pentecostal is no more.

    To me the pool is BETTER than Muttart in that it has original lines and evokes the mountains and foothills. Its a brilliant design.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Sorry, I took that as out of context assumption. Most of Hemingways fans love the Coronation Pool. I like all of his works. A tragedy that Central Pentecostal is no more.

    To me the pool is BETTER than Muttart in that it has original lines and evokes the mountains and foothills. Its a brilliant design.
    Yeah, like I say, it is a nice piece.

    And there is a whole socio-psychoanlytical thesis to be written about mountain imagery in the architecture of a city from which the mountains in question cannot even be seen.

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    heh, but we know they are there and its an easy drive away.

    But point taken.

    But what evoking Pyramids while being thousands of miles away from Egypt or Mexico?
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    Okay, I know you're probably being half-jocular, but I did actually think about the same issue after posting...

    But what evoking Pyramids while being thousands of miles away from Egypt or Mexico?
    I think the difference is that evoking the mountains is meant to evoke Edmonton's proximity to those landforms, with the implication that the mountains are somehow part of our culture/geography, whereas the pyramids are being evoked just as an historical artifact with no particular pre-existing relation to Edmonton.

    As a comparison, think about the difference between the deer and the beaver being on the Alberta Coat Of Arms(ie. those animals live in the province), and the lion on the same crest(just a traditional symbol of western culture, no specific connection to Alberta).

    But the montains are a third category, ie. things that aren't actually here, but close enough that we think they have an influence on us. And that's totally cool with me, as I do think the Rockies have had some impact on Edmonton's psyche.

  91. #91

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    Edmonton is the capital city of the province of Alberta which contains lots of mountains and a considerable contiguous amount of the famous Rocky Mountain chain.

    We also have one of the most famous highways, the Yellowhead, that runs through Edmonton and thru Jasper as a nod to a chief historic route and pass through the rockies. Of which edmontons history plays an important part. We have the Via rail "Canadian" that runs through here utilizing the same route through Jasper.



    so there

    its in how one wants to define the geography or importance or relevance.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-06-2017 at 01:13 PM.
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    I agree with what you've written, except maybe for the "capital city" rationale. There are polar bears in Churchill Manitoba, but they would look pretty bizarre on the Winnipeg coat of arms.

    Agree about the Yellowhead, Via etc, all of which relate to the issue of proximity and its accompanying influence, I think.

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    We were driving by the bat on 118 Ave today. I decided to park and take the kids (9 and 6 years old) out to see it. It does indeed move. They had a blast pushing it. It is quite heavy but I helped them get it going. It rotates all the way around the pole. The kids thought it was awesome and want to make that a regular stop.

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    ^Now just imagine how many more kids could enjoy that if it was moved to an actual park like Rundle or Borden. It's on a traffic circle where you had to stop for your kids to check it out. How sad is that.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Years ago the bat it was bought and paid for by the 118 av business association, it was not a city initiative. The city had nothing to do with the baseball bat other than installing it.

  96. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Years ago the bat it was bought and paid for by the 118 av business association, it was not a city initiative. The city had nothing to do with the baseball bat other than installing it.
    This I did not know! But with this in mind it would be much easier to move (less red tape) and there are many area parks in the 118 Ave area that could benefit from it!
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