Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 124

Thread: Dear Edmonton - Townhouses and TH podiums please

  1. #1
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default Dear Edmonton - Townhouses and TH podiums please

    I cannot figure out why this segment of the market has largely been ignored centrally in recent years other than rail town really. These cater to those wanting out of condo but not into a house and can be some of the best looking and most interesting urban housing forms out there.

    P.S. I will put a deposit down tomorrow for someone who builds one of these around 900sqft over 3 floors with a rooftop patio in the 300-400k range.

    Such as this (please add your examples)




















    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  2. #2
    In Guantanamo (Banned)
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Oliver
    Posts
    1,769

    Default

    Note to IanO


    Terraced houses, patios and clean streets seem to be your thing. Have you ever considered the option of living in Europe? You'd love it. (plus they have some quite nice architecture too)

  3. #3
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    andy - is that too much to ask for here...and yes i have for my father works in Geneva part of the year.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  4. #4
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    South Beverly Heights in a small house with a large lot!!
    Posts
    1,931

    Default

    No thanks. Just too antiseptic for me.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  5. #5
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    please do explain sir
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  6. #6

    Default

    I don't personally see the appeal, having stayed in a few in Vancouver. I could not get over the fact that they were typically no more than 14 feet wide, which made me think the Vancouverites I was visiting essentially paid three quarters of a million for what was basically a 14' wide mobile home chopped in three and stacked up upon itself. (Granted the exteriors were better)

    Based on the price range desired, and given the real estate difference between Vancouver and Edmonton which would reduce pricing, I'd think it unlikely a mass market could be found for them in edmonton, given the price of comparible single family detached homes, of equivilent area.

  7. #7
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^14' x 25 or 30 can be a wicked design. One of the BEST is MODA (in photos above) from Van.

    Each to their own, but the stacked shoe-box can be very interesting and quite livable.

    Use downtown for an example.... basically ZERO townhouses on the market... ones that are, are snapped up almost immediately.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  8. #8
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,516

    Default

    Aren't townhouses part of the Aurora development?

    BTW, there are some cool townhouses in Rossdale and Oliver (the bubble window ones).
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Aren't townhouses part of the Aurora development?

    BTW, there are some cool townhouses in Rossdale and Oliver (the bubble window ones).

  10. #10
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^indeed haha and yes... love both.

    However, we need some modern interpretations of them such as this trio of wickedness:>

    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  11. #11

    Default

    I wanted to raise my in a rowhouse downtown but too few were on the market. How am I supposed to convince my wife to live in one of these when there are so few to choose from? *sigh* Now I live in the Hamptons.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  12. #12
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^...you should join our group (EFCL) working on policy and principles of how to make 'central' Edmonton more family friendly and providing more multi-family friendly housing.

    *with that expect a new 'section' coming soon to C2E:>
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  13. #13

    Default

    I would love to but the baby keeps me busy.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  14. #14
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^if you have any ideas, feel free to PM me and i will introduce them... OR... bring the baby along to our monthly 2hr meetings, other children have come.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  15. #15
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    1,380

    Default

    But the market has put top end 3 story townhomes in neighborhoods like Terwillegar Towne and Greisbach in the 380k range. And thats built into fairly large developments. Where does the end up when you start building on a much smaller scale on much more valuable land? Theres some decent townhomes in Rossdale and Cloverdale (including IanO's sought after 3 stories w/ rooftop patio), but I can't see a huge market ever developing for that in the near future.
    Last edited by KevinW; 27-04-2010 at 11:08 PM.

  16. #16

    Default

    ^we checked out a Griesbach 3 storey - nice, although a bit space inefficient per the design. You are right though, if it is 300-400k in this land it will be at least 450-550k in Oliver. Could do it in Quarters perhaps for lower price, but that will be an even harder sell for wifey versus duplex in Hamptons or similar.

  17. #17

    Default

    IanO, you should have posted a more recent picture!

    www.decl.org

  18. #18
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^didnt have one and figured you should have the glory:>
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  19. #19
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^we checked out a Griesbach 3 storey - nice, although a bit space inefficient per the design. You are right though, if it is 300-400k in this land it will be at least 450-550k in Oliver. Could do it in Quarters perhaps for lower price, but that will be an even harder sell for wifey versus duplex in Hamptons or similar.
    those bach ones are also upwards of 1200-1500sqft

    centrally you can keep that price but reduce sizing...

    900-1000sqft is more than plenty for anyone with reason and understanding
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  20. #20

    Default

    ^I saw a 1000sq ft 3 plex in Ritchie that sold for 400k, but it was simple two stories, 500sq foot each floor (energy efficient though). Oliver isn't cheap, I think by the time anyone buys lot, knocks down existing place and builds, it will be pricey.

    One thing that can help is a small basement suite, that can be a revenue earner that adds about 100k to affordability.

  21. #21
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^does not have to be oliver, but central... westmount and queen mary would be great locations for this along many other.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  22. #22
    You registered but never posted. username to be deleted.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Edmonton since 2009
    Posts
    533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Aren't townhouses part of the Aurora development?

    BTW, there are some cool townhouses in Rossdale and Oliver (the bubble window ones).
    I don't know if I'd call those bubble windows cool, they look like some sorry bastardized vision of the future from the 1980's. (Note: I walk by those every day and they bug the hell out of me)

    http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=m...357.3,,0,-0.91

  23. #23
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^really? perhaps check out the same units with no bubbles just down the street then.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^does not have to be oliver, but central... westmount and queen mary would be great locations for this along many other.
    Arterials are perfect for this. Even wealthy neighborhoods - you could pick up a sideways bungalow on say, 142 street in Crestwood for $400k, knock down, and build 4 units that could be done perhaps at your price range. It would be cheaper still on 87 avenue, 111 avenue, etc. Rezoning should be easy now thanks to mature infill guidelines.

    It would be neat if the City had some sort of incentive, as tax revenues would go up, but not the infrastructure headaches that come with sprawl.
    Last edited by moahunter; 27-04-2010 at 11:43 PM.

  25. #25

  26. #26
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Westmount
    Posts
    3,133

    Default

    ^The fact that those... "things" are being passed off as "brownstones" makes me want to cry.

  27. #27
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^if only cry, that is well behind me.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  28. #28
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Holyrood
    Posts
    4,846

    Default

    Some of those rowhouses/townhouses along 98 Ave. just east of the river are pretty nice. Maybe not as modern as the examples shown, but nice nonetheless.
    Strathcona City Separatist

  29. #29
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^some are ok, but most are very tacky... which is a shame for i have always considered that area.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  30. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^didnt have one and figured you should have the glory:>
    Just to let people know, our project was 1200 sq. ft. with full basement and rooftop patio, 2 bedroom, 2.5 baths. More than enough room for our clients, even with kids on the way. Land costs in Boonie Doon are high, but location for our clients was key (or for any creative professional in this niche market)
    www.decl.org

  31. #31
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,685

    Default

    i think for townhouses to be successful in edmonton (successful as in bringing young families in to mature areas or downtown), they would have to have 3 BR's, be over 1000 sq ft (1100-1200 is fine), and have a private garage (either drive under or detached). at least some private green space.

    people go with what they are comfortable with, and currently there aren't many young families that are comfortable in purchasing a home without those features. it may change over time.

    i think the stacked home concept can work well and design can be airy and light filled. 15x25 (or 30) footprint with 2.5-3 stories and basement and partial rooftop patio.

  32. #32
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^concur although 2bdrm and a den is VERY popular for these type of units.

    My ideal unit would be 950-1000sqft, 3 levels with rooftop patio, UG or rear detached garage (1-1.5 stall is fine), 2bdrm +den.

    I have toured this one in Van, Moda, and found it to be the best layout to date.

    ($461/sqft)

    http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...ertyId=9206324
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  33. #33
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,685

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^concur although 2bdrm and a den is VERY popular for these type of units.

    My ideal unit would be 950-1000sqft, 3 levels with rooftop patio, UG or rear detached garage (1-1.5 stall is fine), 2bdrm +den.

    I have toured this one in Van, Moda, and found it to be the best layout to date.

    ($461/sqft)

    http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...ertyId=9206324
    i think an open staircase would make that unit feel much less cramped. especially if there was a skylight at the top of the staircase column.

  34. #34
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^yup...could... the skylight/roof access is the most innovative i have seen to date where it lies at a 30-45 until you get up to it on the stairs then opens about 60 to allow you to walk out. Somewhat like how sailboats open.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  35. #35
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris83 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Aren't townhouses part of the Aurora development?

    BTW, there are some cool townhouses in Rossdale and Oliver (the bubble window ones).
    I don't know if I'd call those bubble windows cool, they look like some sorry bastardized vision of the future from the 1980's. (Note: I walk by those every day and they bug the hell out of me)

    http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=m...357.3,,0,-0.91
    To each their own and all that. The windows are unique and a conversation starter. BTW there's another lot on 102 Ave just east of 113 St.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  36. #36
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    1,380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RTA View Post
    Some of those rowhouses/townhouses along 98 Ave. just east of the river are pretty nice. Maybe not as modern as the examples shown, but nice nonetheless.
    Agreed/ Except for the abominations with the giant slabs of yellow stucco, there are quite a few decent ones along 98 ave. Tops for me are the brick ones, furthest east right before you go up the hill. The slanted green roofs are a little strange though.

  37. #37
    Addicted to C2E
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    835

    Default

    Stacked townhouses would be a cool addition to the Edmonton real estate market:

    The stacked home is gaining ground as the dwelling of choice for young families that want the maintenance-free features of a condominium but not the human warehousing of a high- or mid-rise suite.

    ***

    They've been touted as a good entry-level house for single-parent families or people who live and work in the same dwelling, thanks to the privacy that can't be found in a flat.

    Essentially, stacked townhouses are two or three separate dwellings stacked on top of each other, but all contained in a single structure resembling traditional row houses.

    ***

    The upside of this dynamic for young families is that stacked townhouses can usually be found in areas that have established schools, parks, community centres and the like. So, not surprisingly, this buyer profile provides a solid base for the stacked market.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-...icle664142.ece
    http://www.twitter.com/ckls

  38. #38

    Default

    ^that doesn't sound as attractive as a side by side, only one unit gets a garden. Sure seems "cheap" though.

  39. #39

    Default

    http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle6804305.ece
    Row houses in London, U.K.
    Looks like Sesame Street but the article is very interesting.
    Last edited by Gemini; 28-04-2010 at 06:57 PM.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  40. #40
    Addicted to C2E
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    835

    Default

    ^^ Stairs are not an option for many people, so stacked housing helps fill that gap. One potential configuration is to have a large family unit with yard access below and smaller units for students on top.
    http://www.twitter.com/ckls

  41. #41
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    7,356

    Default

    The market for townhomes will increase as the overall cost of single family homes increase. We are already seeing an increase in semi-detached and row housing products in many new neighbourhoods and in some mature neighbourhood locations.

  42. #42
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^indeed haha and yes... love both.

    However, we need some modern interpretations of them such as this trio of wickedness:>

    Before:




    After:


  43. #43
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^yup... pretty awesome
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  44. #44

  45. #45

    Default

    ^it would be intersting to find out price per unit, I am guessing about 450k.

  46. #46
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^if i recall they were low 400s to mid 400s.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  47. #47
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^yup... pretty awesome
    Indeed, I liked it so much I bought one! Coming up on the first month of actually living in the unit and the place is incredible, we couldn't be happier.

    As an owner It's nice to hear so much positive feed back on the development. I also can't say enough about the builders, Battle Lake Design Group. All the credit to them; their vision, materials selection and execution/management of the project has surpassed my expectations and I consider this project just the start of good friendship! For anyone considering getting involved with them on a build, rest assured you're in good hands.


    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^it would be intersting to find out price per unit, I am guessing about 450k.
    I thought you tech savvy C2Er's would know it's all public information (as any real estate should be) that you can access from Service Alberta's SPIN system, or as I don't like to pay for information, you can just preview the title and see the consideration and value affidavit provided it's not "SEE INSTRUMENT", then you gotta pay.

    https://alta.registries.gov.ab.ca/spinii/logon.aspx

  48. #48

    Default

    ^Thanks, that's cool and good to know, although you have to know the location first (I can't figure it out just from the photo). When I lived in Scandinavia, they used to put the latest house price in the phone book

  49. #49
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Thanks, that's cool and good to know, although you have to know the location first (I can't figure it out just from the photo). When I lived in Scandinavia, they used to put the latest house price in the phone book

    You're most welcome! Municipal address is 88th ave and 94 Street.

    A way to search is to click:

    1. Guest Log-in
    2. Accept
    3. Search
    4. Map Search
    5. Load any drivers it prompts you to
    6. On the right drop down menu select place name
    7. Type Edmonton
    8. You can now just zoom in and out and pan your window across Edmonton to locate any property using the tools on the bottom of the screen.

    The street and avenue numbers are shown on the road plans, you just have to zoom in to the property you want to investigate and draw a polygon around it using the tool and then hit titles and an option to purchase or preview the title will be on the next screen.

    Sounds more complicated than it really is, if you play with it a bit you'll get the hang of it and it's a very useful tool. Between that and Google maps/street view it's very easy to investigate property without having to leave your chair.

  50. #50
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    7,356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ehrgeiz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^yup... pretty awesome
    Indeed, I liked it so much I bought one! Coming up on the first month of actually living in the unit and the place is incredible, we couldn't be happier.

    As an owner It's nice to hear so much positive feed back on the development. I also can't say enough about the builders, Battle Lake Design Group. All the credit to them; their vision, materials selection and execution/management of the project has surpassed my expectations and I consider this project just the start of good friendship! For anyone considering getting involved with them on a build, rest assured you're in good hands.


    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^it would be intersting to find out price per unit, I am guessing about 450k.
    I thought you tech savvy C2Er's would know it's all public information (as any real estate should be) that you can access from Service Alberta's SPIN system, or as I don't like to pay for information, you can just preview the title and see the consideration and value affidavit provided it's not "SEE INSTRUMENT", then you gotta pay.

    https://alta.registries.gov.ab.ca/spinii/logon.aspx
    Yes, but the mortgage amount registered on title is based on the amount financed. It doesn't provide the full value of the property.

  51. #51
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Yes, but the mortgage amount registered on title is based on the amount financed. It doesn't provide the full value of the property.
    You're thinking the principle amount listed on the mortgage registration, and you're correct it doesn't show the actual value just what's financed.

    The consideration and value affidavit have nothing to do with the mortgage. Of course people can lie and inflate or deflate these numbers, but they are swearing an affidavit so you can expect that it usually should be accurate.

    To actually check the sale you need to pull the land transfer (title#) from SPIN to determine if it's arms length etc, but if you're just curious and don't want to pay it's a good way to check.

    Anyway really bombed off track on this thread...sorry..

  52. #52

    Default

    The 950-1000 sq ft three level townhouse or similar to the ones shown above are exactly what I would like to buy. I believe there would be a strong market for them in Edmonton. I haven't figured out why we haven't seen these being built especially replacing many of the old walkups between Whyte Ave & Saskatchen Drive and 99 St & 109 St. There are so many areas in town where these kinds of townhouses would be brilliant.

  53. #53
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    7,356

    Default

    ^Whats the price you're willing to pay for a 900-1300sf product with mid-level finishings? Attached or detached garage or u/g parkade? 1 or 2 stalls?

    Just curious?

  54. #54
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^me as well

    ^^ me as well
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  55. #55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sofia_z View Post
    The 950-1000 sq ft three level townhouse or similar to the ones shown above.
    Per above we saw a 1000sq ft 2 bedroom in Ritchie, triplex, detatched single garage, not as cool, which sold for 400k.

    One 'problem' is that when someone replaces a house with these type of properties, it is attractive to not sell but rent out. With main floor and basement suite, it will yield more than $2,000 per month, which can cover mortgage on build. If you build something nice, why sell it?
    Last edited by moahunter; 09-05-2010 at 05:33 PM.

  56. #56
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,685

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    ^Whats the price you're willing to pay for a 900-1300sf product with mid-level finishings? Attached or detached garage or u/g parkade? 1 or 2 stalls?

    Just curious?
    i'd say 350-375ish at the moment. that'd be with a decent sized single garage or a tight double. doesn't have to be attached. attached would probably be a bit more, but you'd lose good basement space since it would likely have to be a drive under.
    no parkade. makes it seem more like a condo than a townhouse (even though they may be similar in legal terms).
    add some trendy green features and a roof top patio, plus some nice trim levels and you could push it to 400.

  57. #57
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^the 350-450k range is ideal for this type of product.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  58. #58

    Default

    Where do I sign?

  59. #59
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    7,356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sofia_z View Post
    The 950-1000 sq ft three level townhouse or similar to the ones shown above.
    Per above we saw a 1000sq ft 2 bedroom in Ritchie, triplex, detatched single garage, not as cool, which sold for 400k.

    One 'problem' is that when someone replaces a house with these type of properties, it is attractive to not sell but rent out. With main floor and basement suite, it will yield more than $2,000 per month, which can cover mortgage on build. If you build something nice, why sell it?
    It depends on what your specific business plan calls for. Some build to be used as an income property, while others build to sell and move on.

  60. #60

    Default Vertical Triplexes

    After being a long time voyeur on this site this topic finally pulled me in. I was just wondering if anyone knows if someone has put up any vertical triplexes a la MTL in Edmonton and if not what might be the barriers? I was thinking a vertical triplex like this Net Zero one in MTL would be great here.
    http://www.ecocite.ca/abondance/LeSoleil.html

  61. #61
    Addicted to C2E
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Far from home
    Posts
    687

    Default

    The barriers?

    No parking, no balcony, no yard.... High cost.

    Essentially, there's no zoning / legal framework preventing such a building here in Edmonton, rather the market just might not be favourable.
    That isn't to say potential buyers don't exist out there, just that most builders are going to focus on delivering "safer" products that interest more consumers. Sadly, urban living (especially anything "green") is still a niche market in this city.

  62. #62

    Default

    ^^Actually, I think there are vertically tri-plexes in Tuscany Village in NW Edmonton.
    They don't look like the ones you cited but I know they have some that look like townhouses but they sold by the one floor unit. They have underground parking bays.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  63. #63
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    7,356

    Default

    "Vertical" townhomes are called "Stacked" townhomes and they are allowed under the RF6 Stacked Row Housing zone. There are various examples throughout the city.

  64. #64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ehrgeiz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^indeed haha and yes... love both.

    However, we need some modern interpretations of them such as this trio of wickedness:>
    After:

    Hey that's my car on the left! Glad everyone likes them so much.

    We have a duplex coming on line in the spring in McKernan, similar product. Details as they come. We are also looking at other triplex/fourplex locations in the city.
    www.decl.org

  65. #65

    Default Zoning

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ehrgeiz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^indeed haha and yes... love both.

    However, we need some modern interpretations of them such as this trio of wickedness:>
    After:

    Hey that's my car on the left! Glad everyone likes them so much.

    We have a duplex coming on line in the spring in McKernan, similar product. Details as they come. We are also looking at other triplex/fourplex locations in the city.

    I was just wondering what the zoning is on this project (new to this and trying educate myself). Also was this built on a single lot or two lots (can't tell from the picture). I have also been looking into infill regulations and there seems to be a little confusion on Medium Size infill information provided by the city. In some places it states that maximum height is 2.5 stories and in other places it states 4 stories.

    Does anyone know what zoning is required for 3.5 stories?

  66. #66

    Default

    You would probably need an RF5 or RA6 zoning minimum:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/infraplan/Zon...ylaw_12800.htm

    The Mill Creek Flexhomes project was on a single RF3 corner lot. Corner lots allow for up to 4 units. Even trying to stay within the zoning, we still had a few variances, specifically for parking and the garage. There are also significant sewer charges and requirements when you do a development over 2 units, which is something to be mindfull of. Some of these frustrations we have taken up with our councillors, since if Edmonton is serious about more infill, they have to be reasonable about it. That is why you don't see much in Edmonton between a duplex and a mid-rise condo...it's just not economically feasible for most developers. Dealling with this sewer charge/requirements, and some tweaks to the zoning/parking would go a long way to making it more viable and attractive alternative.
    www.decl.org

  67. #67
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    "We have a duplex coming on line in the spring in McKernan, similar product. Details as they come. We are also looking at other triplex/fourplex locations in the city."

    downtown/oliver and you know i am in
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  68. #68

    Default

    [QUOTE=IanO;324830]"We have a duplex coming on line in the spring in McKernan, similar product. Details as they come. We are also looking at other triplex/fourplex locations in the city."

    I am just wondering if the townhomes in Bonniedoon will ever be completed. The garages have no doors, no siding, etc, or will it be another winter of looking at a construction site.

  69. #69
    highlander
    Guest

    Default

    At a meeting somewhere:

    Architect: "We've been working on design for the molson site. The plan is for Lofts in the historic building, a 15 story glass tower on a 5 story brick podium for the north portion of the site, and 22 and 28 story towers on 6 and 8 story podiums on the southern portion. The podiums will take some design cues from the original brewery building, but with a thoroughly modern interpretations, but the towers will be all glass. We've aligned the towers to maintain visibility for the Brewery tower, and...."

    Anthem VP: "No"

    Architect: "Pardon?"

    Anthem VP: "I've been reading up on Edmonton's market, and this IanO fellow makes a convincing case that what they need is townhomes"

    Architect: "Ok, we can incorporate townhomes at the base of the tower along the northern edge of the site. they won't have a front street, but there's a Multiuse path right there that they could access from."

    Anthem VP: "But that only gets us what, a dozen townhomes? I figure that if we level the brewery and make the whole site townhomes we can get a hundred in there. Especially if we can avoid having to plant trees, so we can put the rows closer together, leaving just enough room for a parking pad. What do you think? I'm leaning in favour of pink stucco, but the CEO thinks that we can maximise profits by using white vinyl siding."

  70. #70
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^ha

    ha

    ha...

    ha
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  71. #71

    Default

    I think its a good spot for a mix of townhouses, and perhaps some low rise condos. I'd prefer to see high rise condos in the empty space closer to the CBD (like the warehouse district), we need to create a vibe there a lot more. Edmonton can only handle so many high rises at the moment (due to level of supply / demand), I'd like them to be in the best places possible to improve the downtown, and I think that is closer in. If a high rise condo is built at Molson, that's less potential (due to competition) for someone to build another high rise condo on 104 street where it will have much more value to the urban core. This city is never going to run out of space in the central area for high rise condos, there are lots of empty parking lots all over the place (and plenty of run down buildings that could one day be replaced as well). We need to encourage low rise type development as well, especially to fill up areas like this on the edge of downtown.

    I notice that in the Calgary downtown plan - there are statements in there that more low rise wood frame style condos are needed in some parts of the downtown, especially those that aren't developing fast. I think they realize there that you can't be snobby and expect high rise perfection everywhere, the key is to get more areas developing.
    Last edited by moahunter; 03-11-2010 at 10:29 AM.

  72. #72
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^exactly.

    These two projects would fit in well on part of the site.


    (http://vancouver-new-townhouse.com/l...2580237530.jpg)


    (http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...wnhouses-C.jpg)
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  73. #73

    Default

    Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but do townhouses typically have condo fees as well? And if not, are there any in edmonton that do not?

    I notice many are built in a 'community style' where they have a communal garbage pit or something. Are there any that are just built without all that extra stuff and are basically treated as separate entities that happen to be adjoined? Or are there issues requiring them to have an overseeing board and such? Any knowledge on this would be helpful, thanks.

  74. #74

    Default

    ^ Can't speak for all townhomes but I know of a South Terwillegar Townhouse around 1300sqft and pays around $150/month.

  75. #75
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,411

    Default

    ^^ Non-condo townhouses do exist (I lived in one in Calgary as a kid) but they seem to be rare. Not sure why though, I would certainly prefer to avoid condo fees and condo politics.

  76. #76

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I would prefer the non-condo types as well and agree that they seem rare. Townhouses themselves are quite rare relative to other building types, so finding this type I can imagine is very difficult. Hopefully more of the non-condo types begin gaining traction, particularly in mature neighbourhoods. I know many people who do not necessarily wish to live in a house, but are turned off by the idea of a condo-fee, this seems to be the perfect medium, but hard to come by.

    Titanium48, do you remember which condo it was in Calgary?

  77. #77
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,411

    Default

    ^ It was here:
    https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.04691...BN3W3mBEqQ!2e0

    The townhouses on the south side of the street are condos, the townhouses on the north side are not.

  78. #78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I would prefer the non-condo types as well and agree that they seem rare. Townhouses themselves are quite rare relative to other building types, so finding this type I can imagine is very difficult. Hopefully more of the non-condo types begin gaining traction, particularly in mature neighbourhoods. I know many people who do not necessarily wish to live in a house, but are turned off by the idea of a condo-fee, this seems to be the perfect medium, but hard to come by.

    Titanium48, do you remember which condo it was in Calgary?
    The reason why you usually have a condo fee is simple. For example, it's a lot easier to pay for something like a new roof when you've got the money and it's held by a central group. Imagine having to deal with each individual when it comes time to do the roof in your building. Some want to use this roofing company, some want to use these shingles cause they're cheaper, some feel the roof is fine, some simply don't have the money and so on.

    Anybody who has ever lived in a house and had to put up a fence has faced a similar situation. Works easy when you've got great neighbors but that's not always the case.

  79. #79

    Default

    You couldn't put it any better Doc as to why they can be a good idea. When people hear condo fees lots of people make the wrong assumptions. There are certain styles of town homes that are no different then a regular home that i wouldn't mind them in. Its not like an apartment with so many huge liabilities.

    Another good example in town homes or duplex's are bug infestations. If your neighbor has bed bugs and cant address the issue or won't. What do you do then? In a condo community its an easy solution.. not so much if its not.

  80. #80

    Default

    Perhaps I'll clarify for my confusion behind this. I was recently in London where nearly every single residence is a townhouse. It's hard for me to imagine that every single one of these row of houses is under some sort of board, although I could be wrong.

    Could issues surrounding things like roof replacement be more the result of the way in which they are designed? Almost all the townhouses I noticed, be they old or new, had their adjoining walls extend pass the roof peak as to separate each roof from the neighbouring property. In this instance your roof replacement would not have anything to do with the other properties. If they are to be designed this autonomously but happen to be attached, could they not prevent the need for a governing board?

    Also for many it is more than simply the condo fee that is a turn off, the board eliminates the autonomy associated with property ownership. I am bit ignorant on this entire area, but commercial properties that are separate buildings but touching (like many on Whyte Avenue) I imagine operate as individual entities.

    Is it then simply a result of the design? Is it that many townhouses are built as one single building rather than a series of individual buildings that are touching that causes the need for boards and fees?

    Thank you for the feedback thus far, i am very interested in learning more about this.

    This is what I am referring to in the roof/building separations

    Image from: http://carpediemclub.wordpress.com/2...entral-london/

  81. #81
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Hollywood View Post

    The reason why you usually have a condo fee is simple. For example, it's a lot easier to pay for something like a new roof when you've got the money and it's held by a central group. Imagine having to deal with each individual when it comes time to do the roof in your building. Some want to use this roofing company, some want to use these shingles cause they're cheaper, some feel the roof is fine, some simply don't have the money and so on.

    Anybody who has ever lived in a house and had to put up a fence has faced a similar situation. Works easy when you've got great neighbors but that's not always the case.
    If you look closely the Calgary non-condo townhouses I linked to earlier you can see they have faced the re-roofing problem, and some owners coordinated replacement while others didn't and simply overlapped the shingles at the property line. The design of those buildings probably isn't the best for non-condo ownership - things would be simpler if there were corners or other discontinuities at the property lines.

    The problem with condominium townhouses is that it rapidly goes beyond just a pool of money for maintenance of the building envelope, to regulations governing things like what kind of landscaping you can have and even what you can put in your windows. I knew someone who lived in a condo townhouse in Millwoods who was thinking of installing central air conditioning. When I asked why she didn't just go buy a couple of $100 window units she said that the condo bylaws prohibited them!

  82. #82
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    9,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    I knew someone who lived in a condo townhouse in Millwoods who was thinking of installing central air conditioning. When I asked why she didn't just go buy a couple of $100 window units she said that the condo bylaws prohibited them!
    That's pretty common in any sort of condo or townhouse property, because people don't want their property looking like something out of Hong Kong:



    source: http://phys.org/news196401988.html

  83. #83
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,411

    Default

    ^ Some people aren't so concerned about what their neighbors house looks like, but don't want their neighbors telling them what their house should look like. When people like that go looking for a small, reasonably priced place to live, their options are limited when the majority of townhouses are condos.

  84. #84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ Some people aren't so concerned about what their neighbors house looks like, but don't want their neighbors telling them what their house should look like. When people like that go looking for a small, reasonably priced place to live, their options are limited when the majority of townhouses are condos.

    Heck I'm leery about buying a single fam place in a new area such as tsecord.. they have hoas out there... That's scary haveibg a hoa level of government and control.... It's like we.take the bad parts of USA land development and bring them here.

  85. #85

    Default

    ^ but with an hoa you'll be able to fight any supportive housing facilities, group homes or low income housing.

  86. #86

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ^ but with an hoa you'll be able to fight any supportive housing facilities, group homes or low income housing.
    Yep and have your fences painted exactly the same or you get a fine.. Oh and don't forget if you disagree with your NIMBY neighbors you will almost always get outvoted.

    Ill buy somewhere without an HOA i think.. i dont mind architectural conveniences but an HOA is too far.

  87. #87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Himser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ^ but with an hoa you'll be able to fight any supportive housing facilities, group homes or low income housing.
    Yep and have your fences painted exactly the same or you get a fine.. Oh and don't forget if you disagree with your NIMBY neighbors you will almost always get outvoted.

    Ill buy somewhere without an HOA i think.. i dont mind architectural conveniences but an HOA is too far.
    There was some sarcasm there directed at those in terwillegar. As for HOA's i wouldn't be as worried about them especially if their fines work the same as a condo board. If so they are pretty much useless and impossible to collect and you can't put a lien on a condo due to unpaid fines so what good do they do if no one pays them? My guess its the same for the HOA. That's probably a discussion for another thread though.

  88. #88

    Default

    If someone wants more individual property control, and to not pay condo fees, an alternative to a townhouse would be an older home that has had its major maintenance items (roof,hot water tank, furnace, windows,etc) already replaced/fixed. Condo living isn't agreeing with my in-laws, so I was looking around earlier in the year for them on MLS; there were some renovated '50s bungalows in Beverly going for around $350k, and '60s bungalows in the Southgate area for $450k.

  89. #89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    IanO, you should have posted a more recent picture!

    This is in Edmonton?? What a beautiful and modern townhome. I am so tired of the typical spec townhomes around Anthony Henday.

    Does anyone know the builder of these cool trio?

  90. #90

    Default

    Sunset Homes in Calgary build these stunning modern duplex (over 2400sqft above grade).

  91. #91
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    ^^

    http://bldg.ca/

    Greenspace on here
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  92. #92

    Default

    ^Great location of those homes too; they look slick now all gussied up.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  93. #93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    I knew someone who lived in a condo townhouse in Millwoods who was thinking of installing central air conditioning. When I asked why she didn't just go buy a couple of $100 window units she said that the condo bylaws prohibited them!
    That's pretty common in any sort of condo or townhouse property, because people don't want their property looking like something out of Hong Kong:



    source: http://phys.org/news196401988.html
    You are completely mistaken. A great number of HongKong and Mainland China apartments do have condo boards and they still look crap (i.e. enclosed balcony, over hanging air conditioner, etc.)

  94. #94

    Default

    Did anyone how much the Mill Creek Flex Homes (trio town home) were selling back in 2009?

  95. #95
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    Bringing this back as I have just visited friends with 3 of these here in Van. From 900-1600sqft, they offer a variety of price points 650k-over a mil and are fantastic. Vancouver really has done a good job at promoting these and ensuring they have a variety of them for people not wanting a single family home, but want out of a 2bdrm high-rise.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  96. #96

    Default

    So only 50%-110% above the average selling price of a single family home in Edmonton & 100%-200% above that of average duplex/townhome? WHAT A BARGAIN! WHO WOULD LIVE IN THE SW!?!

    Average single family home prices increased 0.77% to $437,744 and average duplex/rowhouse prices increased 0.12% to $348,225, while average condominium prices decreased 0.96% to $248,130.
    http://www.ereb.com/News&Events/Late...tatistics.html

    I find it hilarious that you're all financial doom & gloom in Alberta when it comes to, say, the cost of building a lab outside the city core & bullish in the extreme when it comes to relatively-overpriced & expensive building stock. Which is it?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  97. #97
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    A few of my favourite examples.


    www.twitter.com/ianoyeg
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  98. #98
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    So only 50%-110% above the average selling price of a single family home in Edmonton & 100%-200% above that of average duplex/townhome? WHAT A BARGAIN! WHO WOULD LIVE IN THE SW!?!

    Average single family home prices increased 0.77% to $437,744 and average duplex/rowhouse prices increased 0.12% to $348,225, while average condominium prices decreased 0.96% to $248,130.
    http://www.ereb.com/News&Events/Late...tatistics.html

    I find it hilarious that you're all financial doom & gloom in Alberta when it comes to, say, the cost of building a lab outside the city core & bullish in the extreme when it comes to relatively-overpriced & expensive building stock. Which is it?
    Or to approach this in our context where townhouses are available now at 500-700k.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  99. #99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Or to approach this in our context where townhouses are available now at 500-700k.
    So 50%-100% more expensive than average.

    PHEW! That's MUCH BETTER!

    Never stop demonstrating how dramatically out-of-touch you are with anything outside your own narrow demographic.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  100. #100
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    44,722

    Default

    You cannot compare that to 'the avg' though. It is for people who are considering houses in Garneau or Windsor Park or other more urban places where houses are often in the 500-1mil+ range. A townhouse with little maintenance, closer to the core, etc. is very appealing to folks considering those.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •