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Thread: Annoying Driving habits in Edmonton

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norender View Post
    ^^ Especially annoying in the fast traffic lane as there will always be drivers going at least 10kmh above the posted limit on the highway. If drivers followed the proper etiquette the traffic will flow much better.
    Keep right except to pass is applicable to everyone! Weather your below, at, or above the speed limit.

  2. #102

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    This rule doesn't apply if your about to turn left.

    Alberta needs more limited access highways. Too many farm accesses. Especially on QEII. Time to also add a 3rd lane in each direction.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    That puttering along at the speed limit is so annoying.
    Indeed, or drivers who merge and take 2 km's to even reach the limit.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    This rule doesn't apply if your about to turn left.

    Alberta needs more limited access highways. Too many farm accesses. Especially on QEII. Time to also add a 3rd lane in each direction.
    Yup, like that lady from a few of my posts ago who stopped in the fast lane signalling to turn onto a Range Road, despite room on the shoulder and median.

  5. #105

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    Turning. What was the rule? Curb to curb on right hand turns, centre line to centre line on left hand turns. Right?

    So today I'm in line to turn left onto an avenue and then get over to the right-hand curb lane for another turn a couple blocks away. (Turning onto a road with two side by side lanes, a bike lane, then a third curbside driving lane.)

    So the way opens up, the guy in front of me eventually gets across the oncoming traffic lane but goes directly into the 'middle' driving lane. The car behind me cuts right across over the solid lines against the bike lane to get right into the curb lane.

    I'm the only one that takes the centre-line lane (as driver training decades ago taught me to do).

    The solid-line crossing car behind then drives past a guy crossing the road at the right hand turn ahead, then makes the right-hand turn and then shoots across the curb lane to drive blocks and blocks and blocks - in the left hand lane. (I passed her on the right to make another left.)


    I'm back with references:

    Page 78-79
    https://www.albertadriverexaminer.ca/driverhandbook.pdf


    Now, if you live in California:
    https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...ubs/hdbk/turns


    As for crossing lines:

    How many know what those road lines mean?
    Driving
    By Steve Wallace, Times Colonist
    Originally published: August 17, 2012

    The average driver is often mystified by the most basic traffic guidelines: painted pavement lines.

    Here are some basic rules and some not-so-well understood meanings of traffic-line law.
    ...

    http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/how...d-lines-mean-2
    Same article - another peeve of mine:

    Drivers are not permitted by law to merge onto a highway by crossing a solid white line, or in other words merge earlier than coming to a broken or dashed white line. The same rule applies when leaving a freeway.

    http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/how...d-lines-mean-2
    Last edited by KC; 23-05-2016 at 05:30 PM.

  6. #106
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    ^Premature mergers are not nearly as much of an annoyance as the people who try to merge in the correct location without having matched the speed of traffic on the highway.

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    I think everytime someone lets me merge in on a freeway/highway (either slowing down a bit or changing lanes, etc) I'm going to give them the friendly wave. I mean why not? Can be a rare event.

    People pretend they don't have a line of sight but in most cases in Alberta they do.

  8. #108
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    ^ I do just that. A bit of civility costs nothing.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Turning. What was the rule? Curb to curb on right hand turns, centre line to centre line on left hand turns. Right?
    My biggest issue with drivers here. The worst is when it's a 2-lane turn onto a 3-lane road. The person in the center lane turns into the middle lane, which is the lane the person in the curb lane should occupy.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  10. #110

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    Yes, the rules seem simple enough - don't change lanes in an intersection measured from the centre lane out so 2 lane to 3 lane curb to curb turns don't cut it - and as it says don't swing wide or change lanes - which is what a centre to middle lane driver or a curb to curb lane driver is doing:


    Remember: Dual lane turns can only be made where indicated. Never swing wide or change lanes in dual lane turn intersections as another vehicle could be turning beside you.



    https://www.albertadriverexaminer.ca/driverhandbook.pdf



    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/images/63j.JPG


    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/images/80a.jpg


    As for One-Way roads:

    This is Alberta - not the lack of an arrow suggesting centre to curb is an option:

    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/images/63l.JPG



    ...and this is NOT Alberta (pick any lane you want) but it might be legal in Alberta but it's not in the handbook or on the Transportation site


    https://www.dmv.ca.gov/imageserver/d...dlhdbk/29c.gif
    Last edited by KC; 24-05-2016 at 12:55 PM.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    As for crossing lines:

    How many know what those road lines mean?
    Driving
    By Steve Wallace, Times Colonist
    Originally published: August 17, 2012

    The average driver is often mystified by the most basic traffic guidelines: painted pavement lines.

    Here are some basic rules and some not-so-well understood meanings of traffic-line law.
    ...

    http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/how...d-lines-mean-2
    Scary. Really scary

    I mean if drivers don't know what the lines on the road mean, they should not have a licence to drive. I think I was about 8 years old when I asked my dad about passing on the highway and he told me how it worked. I would sit in the back seat (no seat belts in our '63 Merc wagon) and watch when the lines would change to dashes and egged him on to pass the next car.
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  12. #112
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    It states in the Traffic Safety Act - Use of Highway and Rules of the Road Regulation
    Division 6 Turns
    25(3) Where
    (a) a highway is divided into traffic lanes, and
    (b) a person driving a vehicle is approaching an intersection and intending to make a right turn with the vehicle, that person, for the purpose of making the right turn,
    (c) shall drive the vehicle in the traffic lane nearest to the right side of the roadway, and
    (d) may pass any other vehicle travelling in the same direction in a traffic lane to the left of that person, unless a traffic control device otherwise directs or permits.
    http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?pa...s&display=html

    Similar wording is used in Division 6 26(4)for left turns.

  13. #113
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    I was hit pretty hard by someone years ago who turned left from the left lane across two lanes of traffic into the further right (curb) lane as I was turning right. They got out of their car and started screaming at me for turning right on a green light from the curb lane to the curb lane (furthest right to furthest right) because they thought the left turner was allowed to pick any lane they wanted.

    Thankfully someone else pulled over and gave me their phone number in case I needed a witness, and insurance found them completely at fault.

    Since then I've always been hyper cautious turning in those situations. You would not believe the number of times I've yielded to people turning into the wrong lane. I figure it is better to yield than wait for their insurance to pay out to fix my car.

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    ^ Even if there is only one lane shouldn't the driver turning left be yielding to the driver turning right?

  15. #115

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    I drive like everyone else on the road is out to kill me... never have issues.

  16. #116
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    A good policy!
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ Even if there is only one lane shouldn't the driver turning left be yielding to the driver turning right?
    Yes, but don't tell Edmonton drivers that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ Even if there is only one lane shouldn't the driver turning left be yielding to the driver turning right?
    There are corners where the right turn has a yield sign.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    It states in the Traffic Safety Act - Use of Highway and Rules of the Road Regulation
    Division 6 Turns
    25(3) Where
    (a) a highway is divided into traffic lanes, and
    (b) a person driving a vehicle is approaching an intersection and intending to make a right turn with the vehicle, that person, for the purpose of making the right turn,
    (c) shall drive the vehicle in the traffic lane nearest to the right side of the roadway, and
    (d) may pass any other vehicle travelling in the same direction in a traffic lane to the left of that person, unless a traffic control device otherwise directs or permits.
    http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?pa...s&display=html

    Similar wording is used in Division 6 26(4)for left turns.


    In a picture. I recall being told to drive in the empty 'parking' lane (and/or exit lane if the 3rd lane leads to a turn*) and shift over after turning.

    * most people though refuse to make that curb-to-curb turn and instead they wait for an opening in the middle lane, holding up traffic behind them.


    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/images/77b.jpg

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ Even if there is only one lane shouldn't the driver turning left be yielding to the driver turning right?
    There are corners where the right turn has a yield sign.
    Those would be the ones with the separated right turn lanes that enter downstream of the main intersection, like at 137 Av and 50 St, where the dual left turn lane has right of way over the right turn lane. At an intersection like 109 St and 106 Av, the northbound car waiting to turn left needs to wait for all oncoming traffic to clear, including anyone southbound on 109 St who is turning westbound on 106 Av (unless the light is in the green arrow phase).

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    Yes, and there is usually an island. There is one in Sherwood Park (Sherwood Drive and Fir Street) where there is only one lane to turn into.

  22. #122

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    *tailgaters* i drive a crappy little 4 banger family car that has served me well for 7 years, but for some reason, cars like mine are a magnet for the hopped up trucks, especially pick-ups and SUV's in the name of tailgating. seems these guys (and chicks) can't get to where they are going fast enough and pull to within a few feet of my bumper. anyone else love these a-holes as much as i do?

  23. #123
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    Nope, hate them, but comfort yourself with the fact that if they run into you, the accident is pretty much 100% their fault, and their insurance will go up.

  24. #124

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    Me too.. but the pain and suffering you'll have to go through after being rear-ended by these pricks isn't worth it.

  25. #125
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    It is even worse at night when their headlights shine right into your rear window.

    Hmmm...there should be an angle you could mount a mirror so that it would reflect standard height headlights up into the sky, but overheight headlights would be reflected back to the driver of the offending jacked up douchebagmobile...

  26. #126
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    Here's another one:
    The traffic lights were out at 99 St and 63 Ave this afternoon, right at the start of rush hour. Under this situation, the intersection has to be treated as a 4-way stop, right? But I witnessed some going 2-3 per lane at a time - in other words, instead of waiting their turn, some douchetards followed the person ahead of them. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents when this happens.
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  27. #127
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    I don't have people tail grabbing for long. I gear down with no use of brakes. They get the message very quickly.If not and they rear end me.....they WILL be paying me very handsomely.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  28. #128
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    Almost got run over (again) by a guy in a lifted truck, while crossing on a walk sign downtown. When he saw me he flipped me off and sped away, leaving me in a cloud of black truck smoke. The joys of Alberta.

  29. #129

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    I had a lifted truck back into my vehicle the first week I had it, leaving me holding a $2000 repair bill thanks to them driving off. It's finally ship shape again now, but man oh man did I not enjoy that. Didn't fancy a claim on my insurance before my permanent pink card came in the mail so I paid it outta pocket. Had to be a lifted truck, as I don't know how else you'd smash my trunk lid, both driver's side tail lights & the top 3" of my bumper, leaving the rest unscathed.

    Man oh man do I loathe lifted trucks & the exceptions in the law that allows them to be road legal.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  30. #130
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    Take pride in knowing that many of the douches are losing the almighty lifted truck to the bank. Seriously, if there's one positive out of this downturn, many a douche are in dire straits. No sympathy here.

  31. #131
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    ^Except that those horrible things are not being taken off the road. The portion of the d-bag crowd that are not out of work are seeing a buying opportunity.

  32. #132

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    good time to buy ATVs, lifted trucks, and motorhomes/RVs/5th wheels... and other toys.

  33. #133
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  34. #134
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    ^ LOL! Nailed it.
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  35. #135

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    People on an on-ramp that cross the solid line behind me to get onto the freeway annoy me.

  36. #136

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    My biggest peeve lately is that people don't even understand a simple 2-way stop. Leaving my neighborhood, I have to turn left onto the main road. I stop with my blinker on, and wait to go. Some douche comes from the other end and doesn't even completely stop to make a right turn. When there's a gap in traffic, I go, but so does the other person. EVERY TIME! Not only do I have twice as much traffic to get through, but I have the right of way because I was stopped first! I lay on my horn at least twice a week because of these idots. Thankfully I have a dashcam, so if they wanna hit my brand new truck, go ahead, won't cost me any...

    Quote Originally Posted by MetroEd View Post
    *tailgaters* i drive a crappy little 4 banger family car that has served me well for 7 years, but for some reason, cars like mine are a magnet for the hopped up trucks, especially pick-ups and SUV's in the name of tailgating. seems these guys (and chicks) can't get to where they are going fast enough and pull to within a few feet of my bumper. anyone else love these a-holes as much as i do?
    Don't worry, they do it to other trucks too, like mine... I don't tailgate, and I actually leave extra room when it's a very small/short car in front because I know that if I'm too close, my headlights are shining right in your rearview mirror. If only everyone was courteous huh? But there's an easy solution, just let off the gas and slow right down, WAAAAY down. If it's a single lane, he'll be fuming even more, to your amusement. If it's 2+ lanes, then he'll just pass you and be gone.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli
    Not only do I have twice as much traffic to get through, but I have the right of way because I was stopped first


    I'm pretty sure that at a two way stop in the situation you described, the right turning vehicle would have right of way. When turning left, you virtually never have right of way. The only exception is if you've already begun the turn when the right turning vehicle approaches and stops at the intersection. Otherwise if you're both stopped and waiting, right turn has right of way when a gap opens, regardless of who was there first.

    See here:
    http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Documents/drivers4.pdf

    two-way stops — if two streets intersect and only one of thestreets has stop signs, then the other street is a through street.Traffic on the through street has the right-of-way. If you arestopped at one of these types of intersections, wait until there isa safe gap before going through or turning.If two vehicles are stopped at a two-way stop and one of thedrivers wants to turn left, this driver should yield the right-ofwayto the other vehicle. The only exception is if the left-turningvehicle is already in the intersection and has started to make theturn. In this case, the other vehicle must yield.
    Getting to the intersection "first" is only relevant if it's an all/4-way stop. So congratulations, you're the guy who doesn't understand a 2 way stop!

  38. #138

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    The two way stop drives me nuts too.

    Especially when there are 10 cars lined up from the other side wanting to go straight through crossing a highway and you are on the other side trying to turn left. Even if I am there first, I may let the other guy go first but not the nine others. I begin the left and lay on the horn if the other guy tries to go first.

    The explanation above by Marcel is not correct.
    If there was a lot of traffic coming from the other direction, you could be stuck there for a long time and traffic would back up behind you. One example of this was the old crossing of 91st street at Elerslie road. All the traffic coming through Nisku cannot cross Elerslie Road.

    I talked to several police friends about this. They were confounded which is weird because Alberta traffic law is very clear that the first to arrive at a two way, three way or four way stop, gets to go first regardless of direction.

    One police friend said about a two way stop, "the one who goes first is by mutual agreement..." WHAT THE HE'LL DOES THAT MEAN???

    Do you get out of your car and have a meeting? Do you send the other driver a text message?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 26-09-2016 at 07:43 PM.
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  39. #139

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    ^ Agreement by eye contact.

    So if you have tinted windows or wear dark sunglasses you NEVER have to yield.
    There can only be one.

  40. #140

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    If you drive a Euro sedan, you don't even have to bother to slow down. We are in such awe of you and our jaws drop as we stop for you. Please proceed at double the speed limit without concern for tickets or photo radar...
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  41. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli
    Not only do I have twice as much traffic to get through, but I have the right of way because I was stopped first


    I'm pretty sure that at a two way stop in the situation you described, the right turning vehicle would have right of way. When turning left, you virtually never have right of way. The only exception is if you've already begun the turn when the right turning vehicle approaches and stops at the intersection. Otherwise if you're both stopped and waiting, right turn has right of way when a gap opens, regardless of who was there first.

    See here:
    http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Documents/drivers4.pdf

    two-way stops — if two streets intersect and only one of thestreets has stop signs, then the other street is a through street.Traffic on the through street has the right-of-way. If you arestopped at one of these types of intersections, wait until there isa safe gap before going through or turning.If two vehicles are stopped at a two-way stop and one of thedrivers wants to turn left, this driver should yield the right-ofwayto the other vehicle. The only exception is if the left-turningvehicle is already in the intersection and has started to make theturn. In this case, the other vehicle must yield.
    Getting to the intersection "first" is only relevant if it's an all/4-way stop. So congratulations, you're the guy who doesn't understand a 2 way stop!
    Negative. You only yield to cars IN the intersection. Otherwise it's first to arrive goes, like a 4-way. So it's people like you that need to learn to understand the rules.

  42. #142

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    I agree, first to arrive has the right.

    I always wanted to post a thread asking traffic questions of some special situations but you would need to create a lot of graphics.
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  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I agree, first to arrive has the right.

    I always wanted to post a thread asking traffic questions of some special situations but you would need to create a lot of graphics.
    Thank you. I mean, if that weren't the case, there could be a long line of cars turning right, and you're waiting to turn left, and you have to wait for aaaallllll the other cars to all make that turn before you can go. And if cars keep coming from the other way to turn right, you'd be waiting a very long time. Basic logic just escapes some people lol

  44. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I agree, first to arrive has the right.

    I always wanted to post a thread asking traffic questions of some special situations but you would need to create a lot of graphics.
    Yes, like traffic circle situations. For years I would have sworn that it wasn't legal to go 3/4 way around the outside (as happened all the time by the valley zoo circle), but apparently it is legal. It's just that no sane instructor would teach it so I learned the standard advice that the right lane goes straight or turns right.

    I also learned that on right turns, it's curb to curb, not curb to centre lane or middle lane ...and its curb to curb even when the right lane is normally street parking (at meters etc.) but devoid of cars, then once proceeding in the new direction, you then signal for a lane change to take the middle or centre lanes. (IOW, you don't change lanes in an intersection.)
    Last edited by KC; 26-09-2016 at 10:57 PM.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The two way stop drives me nuts too.

    Especially when there are 10 cars lined up from the other side wanting to go straight through crossing a highway and you are on the other side trying to turn left. Even if I am there first, I may let the other guy go first but not the nine others. I begin the left and lay on the horn if the other guy tries to go first.

    The explanation above by Marcel is not correct.
    If there was a lot of traffic coming from the other direction, you could be stuck there for a long time and traffic would back up behind you. One example of this was the old crossing of 91st street at Elerslie road. All the traffic coming through Nisku cannot cross Elerslie Road.

    I talked to several police friends about this. They were confounded which is weird because Alberta traffic law is very clear that the first to arrive at a two way, three way or four way stop, gets to go first regardless of direction.

    One police friend said about a two way stop, "the one who goes first is by mutual agreement..." WHAT THE HE'LL DOES THAT MEAN???

    Do you get out of your car and have a meeting? Do you send the other driver a text message?

    Can you link your source for the bolded?

    I don't think Marcel was incorrect. Let's assume that there is no traffic traveling on the road without the stop signs. When one of those ten cars that is traveling through the intersection goes straight through the intersection the car behind it has to pull up to the corner and then stop. When you have started to turn left you are already in the intersection and the vehicle going the opposite direction must yield. That is what it says in the link that Marcel provided.

    two-way stops — if two streets intersect and only one of thestreets has stop signs, then the other street is a through street.Traffic on the through street has the right‐of‐way. If you arestopped at one of these types of intersections, wait until there isa safe gap before going through or turning.
    If two vehicles are stopped at a two‐way stop and one of thedrivers wants to turn left, this driver should yield the right‐of‐way to the other vehicle. The only exception is if the left‐turningvehicle is already in the intersection and has started to make theturn. In this case, the other vehicle must yield.




    If there was a vehicle traveling on the through street after the first oncoming vehicle went through the intersection you would have to yield right-of-way to the vehicle that was second in your line of ten even though you had stopped at the intersection before he did.

  46. #146
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    This Alberta Transportation link does not make it clear. There are a few important things in there though:

    Three and four-way stops:

    Intersections where stop signs are
    located at all corners are often referred
    to as “courtesy corners.” Vehicles
    approaching from each direction are
    required to stop. All drivers must use
    courtesy and caution. Courtesy is to allow
    the vehicle that arrived first to proceed
    first. If two vehicles arrive at the same
    time, courtesy allows the vehicle on
    the right to proceed first. You must not
    proceed unless you can do so safely
    .
    and

    • A driver turning left across the path of
    an approaching vehicle cannot turn left
    until it is safe.
    I'd say that 'courtesy' at a two way stop would mean that the person that got their first could go assuming that the other driver who is not turning left yields right of way, but that you certainly don't get to just go. You don't 'get' right of way. If the other driver goes at the same time, you'd be at fault for making an unsafe left turn.

    I went through the traffic safety act too, and couldn't find anything about 'two way stops'.

    Also this link with a lawyer agrees. First to be there doesn't guarantee right of way. (It says that people going straight get priority of those turning left)

  47. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The two way stop drives me nuts too.

    Especially when there are 10 cars lined up from the other side wanting to go straight through crossing a highway and you are on the other side trying to turn left. Even if I am there first, I may let the other guy go first but not the nine others. I begin the left and lay on the horn if the other guy tries to go first.

    The explanation above by Marcel is not correct.
    If there was a lot of traffic coming from the other direction, you could be stuck there for a long time and traffic would back up behind you. One example of this was the old crossing of 91st street at Elerslie road. All the traffic coming through Nisku cannot cross Elerslie Road.

    I talked to several police friends about this. They were confounded which is weird because Alberta traffic law is very clear that the first to arrive at a two way, three way or four way stop, gets to go first regardless of direction.

    One police friend said about a two way stop, "the one who goes first is by mutual agreement..." WHAT THE HE'LL DOES THAT MEAN???

    Do you get out of your car and have a meeting? Do you send the other driver a text message?

    Can you link your source for the bolded?

    I don't think Marcel was incorrect. Let's assume that there is no traffic traveling on the road without the stop signs. When one of those ten cars that is traveling through the intersection goes straight through the intersection the car behind it has to pull up to the corner and then stop. When you have started to turn left you are already in the intersection and the vehicle going the opposite direction must yield. That is what it says in the link that Marcel provided.

    two-way stops — if two streets intersect and only one of thestreets has stop signs, then the other street is a through street.Traffic on the through street has the right‐of‐way. If you arestopped at one of these types of intersections, wait until there isa safe gap before going through or turning.
    If two vehicles are stopped at a two‐way stop and one of thedrivers wants to turn left, this driver should yield the right‐of‐way to the other vehicle. The only exception is if the left‐turningvehicle is already in the intersection and has started to make theturn. In this case, the other vehicle must yield.




    If there was a vehicle traveling on the through street after the first oncoming vehicle went through the intersection you would have to yield right-of-way to the vehicle that was second in your line of ten even though you had stopped at the intersection before he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    This Alberta Transportation link does not make it clear. There are a few important things in there though:

    Three and four-way stops:

    Intersections where stop signs are
    located at all corners are often referred
    to as “courtesy corners.” Vehicles
    approaching from each direction are
    required to stop. All drivers must use
    courtesy and caution. Courtesy is to allow
    the vehicle that arrived first to proceed
    first. If two vehicles arrive at the same
    time, courtesy allows the vehicle on
    the right to proceed first. You must not
    proceed unless you can do so safely
    .
    and

    • A driver turning left across the path of
    an approaching vehicle cannot turn left
    until it is safe.
    I'd say that 'courtesy' at a two way stop would mean that the person that got their first could go assuming that the other driver who is not turning left yields right of way, but that you certainly don't get to just go. You don't 'get' right of way. If the other driver goes at the same time, you'd be at fault for making an unsafe left turn.

    I went through the traffic safety act too, and couldn't find anything about 'two way stops'.

    Also this link with a lawyer agrees. First to be there doesn't guarantee right of way. (It says that people going straight get priority of those turning left)
    This proves my point. Because in my case, I stop, and need to pull forward in order to see down the street because of parked cars, so at this point, I AM in the intersection. So when a car approaches from the other side, regardless of if he's turning right, he HAS to yield to me because I'm already in the intersection.

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    ^I'm not sure that proves your point at all. You're not just saying you're entering the intersection before it is safe to do so. The rules further say:
    Do not enter an intersection until you are able to clear it completely.

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    This proves my point. Because in my case, I stop, and need to pull forward in order to see down the street because of parked cars, so at this point, I AM in the intersection. So when a car approaches from the other side, regardless of if he's turning right, he HAS to yield to me because I'm already in the intersection.
    Correct. If you are first in the intersection and turning left, you go first. If the other car fails to stop and yield to you and plows into you, he is at fault.
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  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    ^I'm not sure that proves your point at all. You're not just saying you're entering the intersection before it is safe to do so. The rules further say:
    Do not enter an intersection until you are able to clear it completely.
    If you cant' see down the road, you must move up in order to be able to see down the road so you can proceed safely. It's the same as a corner with a tall fence. You must stop at the stop sign, then you can move up a bit in order to see around the obstruction. Also

    Transportation Alberta - Intersection Safety https://www.transportation.alberta.ca/3277.htm

    "When waiting to turn left at an intersection, a driver may enter the intersection to wait for traffic to clear but keep the vehicle’s front wheels pointed straight ahead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    This proves my point. Because in my case, I stop, and need to pull forward in order to see down the street because of parked cars, so at this point, I AM in the intersection. So when a car approaches from the other side, regardless of if he's turning right, he HAS to yield to me because I'm already in the intersection.
    Correct. If you are first in the intersection and turning left, you go first. If the other car fails to stop and yield to you and plows into you, he is at fault.
    Yep, it's common sense. If you can't see down the road, you have to move up to see if cars are coming. Again, logic. This is how people get t-boned...

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    So the guys claiming I'm wrong haven't provided a single link to a regulation or law that shows otherwise? Carry on, I guess.

  52. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    So the guys claiming I'm wrong haven't provided a single link to a regulation or law that shows otherwise? Carry on, I guess.
    Yes, carry on. The thing is, so what if they do find a regulation? In other words: is anal retentive hyphenated?

    What percent of the population is ever going to go to the same lengths to learn the minutia of it all?

    Being right and then thinking it gives one cause to lay on the horn, give the finger, or whatever over such obscure issues is just being an ***___ as it does nothing but infuriate other drivers and attempt to force some 'bureaucratic mindset' on others when most people are generally reasonable and give and take when driving when they aren't totally clued out and only thinking about how late they are...

  53. #153

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    Regarding pulling into the intersection for the left turn: having a 'blind' left turn does not give one the right to obstruct traffic. As an example, I hate turning left out of an alley onto a street where people are illegally parked too close to the alley entrance, but this does not give me the right to stick my car's nose out past the parked cars to see better, nor to cut off perpendicular traffic in either direction. I think the reasoning behind the right turner in the example situation having right of way on right unless courtesy prevails is simply that you can't be 100% sure that the drivers in the opposite direction who seem to be wanting to go right actually are - people are dumb and sometimes leave their blinker on or make last-minute decisions to go straight instead.
    Last edited by mdmenzel; 27-09-2016 at 11:30 PM.

  54. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdmenzel View Post
    Regarding pulling into the intersection for the left turn: having a 'blind' left turn does not give one the right to obstruct traffic. As an example, I hate turning left out of an alley onto a street where people are illegally parked too close to the alley entrance, but this does not give me the right to stick my car's nose out past the parked cars to see better, nor to cut off perpendicular traffic in either direction. I think the reasoning behind the right turner in that situation having right of way on right is simply that you can't be 100% sure that the drivers in the opposite direction who seem to be wanting to go right actually are - people are dumb and sometimes leave their blinker on or make last-minute decisions to go straight instead.
    Right. Then I guess when you come to a stop at the end of the alley and can't see, you better just put it in reverse and go back home until people move those cars.

  55. #155

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    My point is, I would be ruled 100% at fault in a collision regardless of those vehicles parked too close to the alley entrance in violation of city by-laws.
    Last edited by mdmenzel; 27-09-2016 at 11:25 PM.

  56. #156

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    mdmenzel is right. I got stuck on Whyte Ave coming out of an alley that had cars illegally parked everywhere. I had to poke my car out to see around the parked cars and got hit..

    My fault in the end... the person who smacked into me even blamed the cars parked on the road but the police couldn't care less. They told me I should have called the police... or backed out and left a different way. Problem was due to construction there was only one way in and out of this alley I turned into...

    I took photos of the illegally parked cars blocking the alley In the hopes the police would write them a ticket and they wouldn't.

    My fault even though I had no other exit... I shouldn't have entered the roadway without knowing 100% it was safe to do so.

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    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.

  58. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    It's quite amusing that whenever it's pointed out to you how wrong you are on a topic, your reaction is to simply claim the other person is "uneducated" or "stupid" or whatever, and you declare you're taking your ball and going home.

    In any case, SP59 already pointed out that no, you wouldn't have to just sit there forever waiting:

    Quote Originally Posted by SP59
    I don't think Marcel was incorrect. Let's assume that there is no traffic traveling on the road without the stop signs. When one of those ten cars that is traveling through the intersection goes straight through the intersection the car behind it has to pull up to the corner and then stop. When you have started to turn left you are already in the intersection and the vehicle going the opposite direction must yield. That is what it says in the link that Marcel provided.
    If there was a large gap in traffic on the through road, the first vehicle (A) traveling straight through or turning right at the stop sign would proceed first, and the left turning vehicle (B) opposite of them would proceed to make their turn as A clears the intersection. Meanwhile, the vehicle (C) behind A would advance forward and come to a complete stop. They would yield right of way to B as they completed their turn, and then proceed when B was clear. If there was a large line of vehicles on both sides, at that point it would essentially turn in to an alternating, "courtesy" traffic flow not dissimilar to an all way stop so long as the gap in through traffic persisted. When that gap closes and the vehicles at the stop sign all come to a halt, the process would begin again and the left turning vehicle would yield right of way to the straight or right turning vehicle, regardless of who stopped first.

    If there is significant traffic both on the through road and stopped at the stop sign that results in it being very difficult to make a left hand turn, then you should strongly consider making a right hand turn instead (and then likely, two more to get going in the direction you wanted to travel). Left hand turns are dangerous and should be minimized/avoided if possible, especially in situations where there is heavy traffic on the through road. My office is just west of 149th in the Mitchell Industrial area, and there are frequent accidents on 149th at 121 and 123 avenues where there is only stop signs and lots of heavy truck traffic trying to make left hand turns. The city really should install lights or prohibit those turns. Also, I used to often turn left out of the alley between 103/104 streets on to 102 avenue when leaving my place, but as pedestrian, bicycle and vehicle traffic has picked up and vehicles are more often parked there blocking sight lines, I've mostly given up turning left there because it's simply not safe most times of the day. Sure it's a bit less convenient, but safety should take precedence.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 28-09-2016 at 11:09 AM.

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    this alkali character is quite amusing

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    ^ Fairly acidic, too.
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  62. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    Three rights make a left. I've done it many times rather than sitting blocking people behind me while I wait for an opening that may not come anytime soon.

    However, I'm uneducated so can someone provide the reference material on this. One thing I always thought was that the car in the intersection has some right-of-way in order to clear the intersection. If the cars opposite have a stop sign and I'm in the intersection waiting, then I should be able to proceed when they stop, correct?
    Last edited by KC; 28-09-2016 at 06:44 PM.

  63. #163

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    How about those double lane 4 way stops. If I'm in the curb lane turning right and a car to my right is in the centre lane going straight, why can't we both go at the same time, ending up side by side at the start of the rise on my right.

  64. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MetroEd View Post
    *tailgaters* i drive a crappy little 4 banger family car that has served me well for 7 years, but for some reason, cars like mine are a magnet for the hopped up trucks, especially pick-ups and SUV's in the name of tailgating. seems these guys (and chicks) can't get to where they are going fast enough and pull to within a few feet of my bumper. anyone else love these a-holes as much as i do?
    Don't worry, they do it to other trucks too, like mine... I don't tailgate, and I actually leave extra room when it's a very small/short car in front because I know that if I'm too close, my headlights are shining right in your rearview mirror. If only everyone was courteous huh? But there's an easy solution, just let off the gas and slow right down, WAAAAY down. If it's a single lane, he'll be fuming even more, to your amusement. If it's 2+ lanes, then he'll just pass you and be gone.
    ^i do that all the time and it drives them nutz!!

  65. #165

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    I throw on the hazard lights. They usually back off fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    Alkali, you are absolutely correct. First to arrive goes first. If some don't believe this they need to be educated. (Class one professional driver here) . If in doubt please google it and weep. I just can't believe that people do not know this simple rule.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 29-09-2016 at 07:55 AM.

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    We did google it. Please show us the links.

  68. #168

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    The problem I have experienced is that when I am turn left crossing a thoroughfare, I let the opposing drive traveling straight to proceed and then, with me already in the intersection the second, third and fourth car try to dart across or make right turns (the same direction my car is going) without even stopping at the STOP sign!
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 29-09-2016 at 08:25 AM.
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  69. #169

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    The Alberta Traffic Act is a bit fuzzy on two way stops but BC's law is very clear

    Yielding right of way on left turn http://www.drivesmartbc.ca/rules-roa...y-two-way-stop

    Q. If two stop signs are opposing each other with a main road going through these, car A arrives at a stop sign first and wants to turn left, car B arrives at the opposing stop sign and wants to turn right (or go straight through), who has the right of way? Does the first car to the intersection have the right of way, or does the person turning left yield to the others?


    Answer: In combination with the answer above and the rule on yielding for left turns:

    174 When a vehicle is in an intersection and its driver intends to turn left, the driver must yield the right of way to traffic approaching from the opposite direction that is in the intersection or so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but having yielded and given a signal as required by sections 171 and 172, the driver may turn the vehicle to the left, and traffic approaching the intersection from the opposite direction must yield the right of way to the vehicle making the left turn.


    You will see that in your scenario Car A gets to turn and Car B must wait.

    This is basically the same rule as a four way stop when two cars come from opposing directions where neither are on the right side of the other. The first rule is first to stop, first to go, regardless of intended direction and the later car must yield. If they arrive at the same time, the one crossing the path of the other must yield. The left turning driver must yield to the one going straight. If both are turning left, or both are turning right, or both are going straight through, both may go at the same time.

    One common misinterpretation of the rules are taking the rules regarding making left turns at uncontrolled intersections such as turning left where there is no stop sign, no yield sign or no lights on the thoroughfare. Example turning left off a highway onto a side road or turning left on a street into a parking lot or alley. The left turning driver must yield to all oncoming cars until it is safe to proceed. This means the obvious long wait if there are no breaks in oncoming traffic. This rule does not equally apply to a two way stop in the example above.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 29-09-2016 at 08:38 AM.
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  70. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    Alkali, you are absolutely correct. First to arrive goes first. If some don't believe this they need to be educated. (Class one professional driver here) . If in doubt please google it and weep. I just can't believe that people do not know this simple rule.
    That's always been my view. The guy in the intersection has to be allowed to clear the intersection. If there is a stop sign on the opposing side, why wouldn't there be an opportunity in short order to just turn left?

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    Alkali, you are absolutely correct. First to arrive goes first. If some don't believe this they need to be educated. (Class one professional driver here) . If in doubt please google it and weep. I just can't believe that people do not know this simple rule.
    It is hilarious how class one driver's always think they are right.

    What PRT found and is stated in the red print answer is correct. That is not what alky was saying.

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    That's right. Same thing. Guy is turning left but arrives at stop sign first. Vehicle approaches stop sign on opposite side and must wait for the guy turning left. Who are you arguing with?

  73. #173

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    Two rights make a wrong...

    My problem is that if half of the drivers believe otherwise, think that they have the right and hit the left turning vehicle who technically has the right, it is not a good thing. When the police (including three cops I know) or a judge interpret the Alberta Traffic Act differently or if there is no witness, you can still lose, that is if you survive the accident.

    I was at a four way stop today, the big truck was on my right and arrived first and I waited for him to lumber thought the intersection going straight. I then proceeded to go straight when the car behind the truck, rolled through the stop and proceeded to go straight through the intersect without stopping. I slammed on the brakes and gave her the horn. She gave me the finger.

    I guess if you are a woman in an Audi SUV, everyone must yield. Gotta add that to the Alberta Traffic Act
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    In Alky's example there could be a car going through the intersection on the road with the right of way. Both the cars at the stop sign will have to stop and wait for that car. If the car turning left was at the stop sign first he will now have to wait for the car going the opposite direction from his to go straight through the intersection or to turn right. It doesn't matter that the left hand turning was there first as both cars had to stop at the intersection.

  75. #175
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    The other day I arrived at a four way stop, last of four vehicles. I waited for something to happen and suddenly all three ladies at the three other stop signs waived me to go simultaneously. I just went, but hoping that one of them didn't change their minds. If a camera saw this and one suddenly decided to go I would be in the wrong and my word would mean nothing. Yesterday I was at a 4way and the lady arrived after me waived me to go too. Just have to be on your toes at all times I guess.

  76. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The other day I arrived at a four way stop, last of four vehicles. I waited for something to happen and suddenly all three ladies at the three other stop signs waived me to go simultaneously. I just went, but hoping that one of them didn't change their minds. If a camera saw this and one suddenly decided to go I would be in the wrong and my word would mean nothing. Yesterday I was at a 4way and the lady arrived after me waived me to go too. Just have to be on your toes at all times I guess.
    Years ago a lady backed up into me and while I was writing out her insurance detail, I could swear I saw her out of the corner of my eye wave to an elderly lady to back out. The elderly lady did, right into the other side of my car. Pretty funny experience, hit twice in 5 minutes.

  77. #177

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    you should never let someone wave you In... if an accident is caused it will be on you. I watch people stop on main roads while waving people in... people think they're being courteous... but in most instances it's been ridiculously unsafe... borderline ********. But hey that's edmonton for you.

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    And dash cams are everywhere folks. A lot of times when someone waves me on I negate and follow the rule of the road. They usually give the ol' insulted look and I appreciate the gesture of good faith but my insurance company don't give a rat's arse.

  79. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    you should never let someone wave you In... if an accident is caused it will be on you. I watch people stop on main roads while waving people in... people think they're being courteous... but in most instances it's been ridiculously unsafe... borderline ********. But hey that's edmonton for you.
    Yeah I was told to never wave to a pedestrian to cross.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    Better hand in your licence there pal. You're going to cause a pile up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    It's quite amusing that whenever it's pointed out to you how wrong you are on a topic, your reaction is to simply claim the other person is "uneducated" or "stupid" or whatever, and you declare you're taking your ball and going home.

    In any case, SP59 already pointed out that no, you wouldn't have to just sit there forever waiting:

    Quote Originally Posted by SP59
    I don't think Marcel was incorrect. Let's assume that there is no traffic traveling on the road without the stop signs. When one of those ten cars that is traveling through the intersection goes straight through the intersection the car behind it has to pull up to the corner and then stop. When you have started to turn left you are already in the intersection and the vehicle going the opposite direction must yield. That is what it says in the link that Marcel provided.
    Exactly this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    Alkali, you are absolutely correct. First to arrive goes first. If some don't believe this they need to be educated. (Class one professional driver here) . If in doubt please google it and weep. I just can't believe that people do not know this simple rule.
    Here, lets do some examples:

    I want to turn left. I approach the stop sign and stop.
    There is a opposing vehicle facing me. They are stopped. They want to go straight.

    BOTH OF US ARE STOPPED AT OUR STOP SIGNS.

    There is no traffic coming from our left or right.

    The opposing vehicle HAS RIGHT OF WAY. They are going straight thru the intersection. Me, being the left turning car, would be CROSSING their path of travel.

    So they go, and then I go.

    ----
    Now if I was stopped and they were still approaching the intersection, then yes, I have right of way. I can enter the intersection and make my left turn. If they stop while I'm in the middle of the intersection, they have to wait until I clear it.
    -----

    If there was a stack of traffic opposing each other at stop signs, the car going straight has right of way, and then I'd turn left as the opposing 2nd vehicle in the line approaches the stop line.

  81. #181
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    Exactly correct. You are turning left. You arrived at the stop first. You go.

  82. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    Better hand in your licence there pal. You're going to cause a pile up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    It's quite amusing that whenever it's pointed out to you how wrong you are on a topic, your reaction is to simply claim the other person is "uneducated" or "stupid" or whatever, and you declare you're taking your ball and going home.

    In any case, SP59 already pointed out that no, you wouldn't have to just sit there forever waiting:

    Quote Originally Posted by SP59
    I don't think Marcel was incorrect. Let's assume that there is no traffic traveling on the road without the stop signs. When one of those ten cars that is traveling through the intersection goes straight through the intersection the car behind it has to pull up to the corner and then stop. When you have started to turn left you are already in the intersection and the vehicle going the opposite direction must yield. That is what it says in the link that Marcel provided.
    Exactly this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    You come up to a 2 way stop. You want to turn left. There is an opposing vehicle wanting to go straight. Opposing vehicle has right of way. Any traffic in this type of situation that wants to turn right, or go straight has right of way.

    First-to-arrive rule only applies to 3-way and 4-way intersections. Intersections with NO control signs means any traffic to YOUR right have right of way.

    So, in conclusion, vehicles at 2 way stops going straight or turning right have right of way.
    So with your logic, you would never be able to turn left on a busy street because every time there's an opening, someone across from you turning right or going straight can go. Then you wait, and at the next opening, the next person across from you also gets to go, and so on and repeat. Wow, it's so obvious why there's so many problems with drivers in this city and why threads like this exist. I'm done arguing with the uneducated, I'm just wasting my time. Enjoy being ********.
    Alkali, you are absolutely correct. First to arrive goes first. If some don't believe this they need to be educated. (Class one professional driver here) . If in doubt please google it and weep. I just can't believe that people do not know this simple rule.
    Here, lets do some examples:

    I want to turn left. I approach the stop sign and stop.
    There is a opposing vehicle facing me. They are stopped. They want to go straight.

    BOTH OF US ARE STOPPED AT OUR STOP SIGNS.

    There is no traffic coming from our left or right.

    The opposing vehicle HAS RIGHT OF WAY. They are going straight thru the intersection. Me, being the left turning car, would be CROSSING their path of travel.

    So they go, and then I go.

    ----
    Now if I was stopped and they were still approaching the intersection, then yes, I have right of way. I can enter the intersection and make my left turn. If they stop while I'm in the middle of the intersection, they have to wait until I clear it.
    -----

    If there was a stack of traffic opposing each other at stop signs, the car going straight has right of way, and then I'd turn left as the opposing 2nd vehicle in the line approaches the stop line.
    I bolded the exact scenario that I was talking about to begin with. I stop with my left blinker on, and someone across from me is still pulling up to their stop sign to make a right turn. Before they're even stopped, I start going. But they don't even come to a complete stop, they just roll through and try to turn in front of me, WITHOUT STOPPING FIRST. This is the case where I have the right of way, and this happens several times a week, and THIS is when I lay on my horn. Because they didn't even STOP, and I start making my left turn before they even get to the stop sign.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    I bolded the exact scenario that I was talking about to begin with. I stop with my left blinker on, and someone across from me is still pulling up to their stop sign to make a right turn. Before they're even stopped, I start going. But they don't even come to a complete stop, they just roll through and try to turn in front of me, WITHOUT STOPPING FIRST. This is the case where I have the right of way, and this happens several times a week, and THIS is when I lay on my horn. Because they didn't even STOP, and I start making my left turn before they even get to the stop sign.
    Ok. Well in that case, yah I agree with you. Those people are idiots.

  84. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    I bolded the exact scenario that I was talking about to begin with. I stop with my left blinker on, and someone across from me is still pulling up to their stop sign to make a right turn. Before they're even stopped, I start going. But they don't even come to a complete stop, they just roll through and try to turn in front of me, WITHOUT STOPPING FIRST. This is the case where I have the right of way, and this happens several times a week, and THIS is when I lay on my horn. Because they didn't even STOP, and I start making my left turn before they even get to the stop sign.
    Ok. Well in that case, yah I agree with you. Those people are idiots.
    I used to deal with an intersection like this every morning, I would say roughly 80% of drivers rolled through the stop sign when turning right (with no cross traffic). Very frustrating, but pretty much a reality with Edmonton drivers (same goes for red lights).

  85. #185

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    I just drive like everyone on the road is are idiots and trying to kill me. I'm never disappointed.

  86. #186
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    Tailgating top reason for traffic crashes in Edmonton

    Nearly 40 per cent of all traffic collisions in Edmonton last year were caused by drivers getting too close to vehicles in front of them, the city said Monday as it released a list of the top 10 locations for following-too-closely collisions in 2016.

    Of the total 23,149 collisions in the city last year, more than 8,900 were caused by tailgating.

    The following-too-closely crashes resulted in 1,300 injuries.

    The city said, however, that the number of following-too-closely collisions was down by 800 in 2016 compared to 2015.

    Drivers are more prone to tailgate at certain intersections in the city, including several spots on Yellowhead, the city said in a news release.

    A traffic safety culture survey released in January showed the most common reason Edmonton drivers give for tailgating is that the vehicle in front of them is not travelling as fast as they would like.

    "Watching your speed and slowing down early before intersections can prevent you from having a very bad day," said senior research coordinator Laura Thue with the City of Edmonton's Office of Traffic Safety.

    There were fewer collisions last year in part because the city upgraded three intersections to create sharper right-turn angles, city spokesperson Gary Dyck said.

    That way, drivers are looking more to the left rather than behind them.

    Collisions from tailgating also happen when drivers are merging and watching over their shoulders for openings in traffic.They assume the vehicle ahead of them has gone, so they start to go, not realizing that the vehicle ahead has stopped.

    Thue urged motorists to leave space between vehicles and to think about their driving habits.

    "You can reduce your odds of a being in rear-end collision with a simple change in how you drive," she said. "It's such an easy, simple thing to do."

    A city campaign called Vision Zero aims to have zero traffic fatalities and serious injuries.

    The city's annual collision report with detailed statistics will be released in the spring.

    Here are the Top 10 following-too-closely collision locations in 2016, and the number of collisions at each spot:

    107th Avenue and 142nd Street 88
    Yellowhead Trail and 121st Street 65
    Yellowhead Trail and 149th Street 65
    Yellowhead Trail and 127th Street 58
    23rd Avenue and 91st Street 46
    34th Avenue and 91st Street 44
    Yellowhead Trail and Fort Road 44
    34th Avenue and Gateway Boulevard 43
    34th Avenue and Calgary Trail 41
    137th Avenue and 97th Street 40
    Rabbit Hill Road and Terwillegar Drive 40
    Something as simple and avoidable as tailgating creates thousands of collisions in Edmonton. This is why I have a rear-facing dash-cam... to catch the idiocy in action even though it will be their fault everytime. This is what I don't understand, nobody likes a tailgater but half the dummies do it. Just astounds me.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ions-1.4001225

  87. #187

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    Had some ***** tailgating me on a 4 lane road for a mile on Saturday night as the snow was flying for hours and the roads getting slick. This combined with idiots at side roads not stopping where they should made for interesting driving after going out for dinner. Of course the guy tailgaiting me was in a huge jacked up pick up truck. The kind where his front bumper would ram right up the back of my vehicle. Oblivious that he was even doing it.

    Seemingly 90% of the drivers on the road Saturday night had no awareness that road conditions had worsened. This happens EVERY time.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  88. #188
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    142/107 is tops or top 3 on that list, year after year after year after year, and yet nothing is ever done about it. I realize that it's probably 90% minor rear-enders and the other 10% are equally minor sideswipes, but why even bother compiling these lists if nothing is done about them? At least the next 3 intersections are being addressed, although that's still years away. They've remained essentially unchanged for decades, and likely have also been near the top of past lists as well. So congrats, I guess? It only took the city 20-40 years to address those Yellowhead intersections.

  89. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Had some ***** tailgating me on a 4 lane road for a mile on Saturday night as the snow was flying for hours and the roads getting slick. This combined with idiots at side roads not stopping where they should made for interesting driving after going out for dinner. Of course the guy tailgaiting me was in a huge jacked up pick up truck. The kind where his front bumper would ram right up the back of my vehicle. Oblivious that he was even doing it.

    Seemingly 90% of the drivers on the road Saturday night had no awareness that road conditions had worsened. This happens EVERY time.
    Tailgaters are about my most hated driving concern. I don't necessarily find it to be people driving big trucks that do this. Usually it's people in smaller family type cars. If I'm driving under the speed limit it's usually because the person in front is driving under the speed limit and the person in the smaller vehicle behind me thinks they can bully me into driving faster. I can only go as fast as the person in front of me is going so don't ride my bumper because your in a hurry. Of course, if the roads are in bad condition I'll drive under the limit but if the speed demon behind wants to go faster then so be it I'll move over if I can but hope to see them in the ditch as I drive by.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  90. #190

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    Never tempt fate by touching the brakes to get them to back off.

    I either turn on the hazard lights or begin weaving side to side in my lane.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 27-02-2017 at 06:27 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  91. #191

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    If you tailgate me on the highway/freeway, I will move over to the shoulder a bit to ensure I'm kicking up rocks at you.

    Tailgaters are just speeders who get caught in traffic anyways. Good thing we have so much photo radar for those wanting to pay luxury tax.

  92. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Never tempt fate by touching the brakes to get them to back off.

    I either turn on the hazard lights or begin weaving side to side in my lane.
    I would not do that either. If the driver behinds ends up hitting me so be it. Fault will lie with them. I can only go as fast as the person in front and if I'm doing the speed limit then not much I can do. Tailgates do this to people in the middle lanes and the outside lanes. They don't seem to have the sense to change lanes to faster moving traffic. Basically they are jerks.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  93. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    If you tailgate me on the highway/freeway, I will move over to the shoulder a bit to ensure I'm kicking up rocks at you.

    Tailgaters are just speeders who get caught in traffic anyways. Good thing we have so much photo radar for those wanting to pay luxury tax.
    Would not be kicking rocks at them either. You're just getting down to their level doing that. If there is an accident would you want to be cited as part of the fault of it.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  94. #194

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    I'm sorry, but this really does apply to Edmonton Drivers regarding highway driving into the city.

    Because of the many off-ramps from Stony Plain and Spruce Grove I noticed that at that point is when all bets are off when it comes to driving the fast lane.

    I drive the highways a lot because of my job and no matter what time of the day I drive into the city, the highways are quiet until you reach that section of the highway is when you can't drive the fast lane without someone driving slower than the speed limit or worse, the big rigs.

    And there's really nothing you can do about it except lower your speed to under 100 and even put up with the big rigs cutting you off because the big rig in front of them is going too slow.

    Just something that has been a problem for at least 10 years.

    I just wish people would comply to highway etiquette

  95. #195

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    ^Instead of building a ring road, they should have just built a small, exclusive, one lane each way (maybe with an occasional passing lane), truck trail around the city to move freight.

  96. #196

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    I notice it's a problem on the Whitemud too. The big rigs take up all of the lanes causing traffic to slow down to a crawl during rush hour.

  97. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    I'm sorry, but this really does apply to Edmonton Drivers regarding highway driving into the city.

    Because of the many off-ramps from Stony Plain and Spruce Grove I noticed that at that point is when all bets are off when it comes to driving the fast lane.

    I drive the highways a lot because of my job and no matter what time of the day I drive into the city, the highways are quiet until you reach that section of the highway is when you can't drive the fast lane without someone driving slower than the speed limit or worse, the big rigs.

    And there's really nothing you can do about it except lower your speed to under 100 and even put up with the big rigs cutting you off because the big rig in front of them is going too slow.

    Just something that has been a problem for at least 10 years.

    I just wish people would comply to highway etiquette
    Ties in with my comments about people merging onto highways and freeways without accelerating to the highway speed.

    Just today I was behind an SUV getting onto the Anthony Henday and the driver accelerated from 60 kph to 80 kph but the AH was 100 kph there. Right lane traffic has to slow or move left and people like me have to take to the left lane and accelerate because traffic is approaching fast from the rear in the right lane. These drivers just force more traffic into the left lane instead of properly merging at the speed of the existing traffic.

    This is almost a daily issue for me. People just don't seem to realize that they are supposed to speed up for a merge, not that everyone else is supposed to slow 20kph or more under the limit for them. I've been behind vehicles doing 60 kph merging onto 100 kph (max.) roads.
    Last edited by KC; 09-03-2017 at 01:02 PM.

  98. #198

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    Poor merging really messes up traffic.

    There are a lot of nervous and poor drivers who ate too timid to merge at speed. It makes it far easier to merge if the speed difference is only 2 or 3 kph rather than 20 or 30.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 09-03-2017 at 03:09 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  99. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Poor merging really messes up traffic.

    There are a lot of nervous and poor drivers who ate too timid to merge at speed. It makes it far easier to merge if the speed difference is only 2 or 3 kph rather than 20 or 30.
    Yeah, I'm too scared to drift out into busy traffic at a relative crawl - I want to be at the same speed they are going so no one ends up swerving unexpectedly.

    I once had a rental and pulled out on a short on-ramp in the mountains and suddenly realized that the rental had no power to accelerate. I nearly got run over by a big semi.

  100. #200

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    I did that during my driving test. The Vega was so under powered on the downhill on-ramp onto Whitemud during rush hour I just abut told the driving inspector to get out and push.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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