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Thread: Neutral or need more information on the arena deal

  1. #1
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    Default Neutral or need more information on the arena deal

    If you feel there is not enough information available, post that thought here.

    Also, if you have any helpful links to information, feel free to post without commentary. Please just post the subject if the link.

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    If you want to read the original arena thread...

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ead.php?t=6555

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    1. Rexall ticket levy: besides serving as a playing field leveler with the new arena, what are its other purposes? Where exactly will that revenue be allocated?

    2. What are some viable options for provincial funding:
    - municipal sustainability fund?
    - gambling/casino revenue?
    - lottery specifically for arena?
    - public bonds?
    - metro area solution that includes St. Albert, Sherwood Park, etc?

    3. Besides potentially running a competing arena, why is Northlands so important to appease? Is this city going to die out without them, or what?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I'm not sure if media columns are allowed (if not, please move to locked thread or new thread), but David Staples latest column should be shared:

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...monton-public/

    Admin Edit

    I moved this pro-arena post here as it is informative in nature. I will leave the other two forums for C2E member opinions only
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 25-10-2011 at 09:26 AM. Reason: fixed link
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  5. #5

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    Admin Edit. I hve moved this anti-arena article here to keep the other two forums for C2E member opinions.


    New arena deal bad for taxpayers

    But this week's city council vote may be a done deal

    By Gary Lamphier, Edmonton Journal

    "It's a terrible deal," says U of A sports economist Brad Humphreys.
    "They're still short $100 million and I don't see it going very far until they come up with the remainder of the funding."
    What's more, by allowing Katz to forgo the $100 million upfront funding commitment in return for a 30year lease at $5.5 million per annum, <snip>

    "I notice in the reporting to date, people are saying Katz is paying $165 million, which is $5.5 million over 30 years. But that's not right. That calculation ignores the time value of money, which believe me, is coming out of the taxpayers' pockets."
    <snip>
    But perhaps the biggest issue of all is who will cover any project cost overruns, says Humphreys.
    "I've been saying this to anyone who will listen for at least a year now.
    This $450-million estimate is several years old, and it's not based on any actual architectural plans, either. It's just a number that's been thrown out there," he says.
    "This arena is going to cost more than $450 million when all is said and done. Cost overruns of 50 per cent are not uncommon with these projects, so we're already talking north of $600 million.
    "But on this issue, there's a deafening silence."

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...017/story.html
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 25-10-2011 at 08:24 AM.
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    Another question - if the municipal sustainability fund is to be used as suggested by the province, will it be enough?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    my biggest concern about arena deal is $ 100 mil because City may or may not get any money from the province ??
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

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    I still think Katz is getting an obscenely generous deal from us. I want the arena, but think Katz should take more responsibility for its costs. Rexall Sports/Entertainment, or whoever will ultimately be the tenant, is going to receive all revenue and only have to pay $5.5M a year? He will make that in revenue multiple times over. I feel that the NHL must really have twisted Mandels arm in NYC. We are being taken advantage of!!!

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    to make an informed decision we need to see :
    • Where and when the 100 million shortfall is or could be coming from
    • Real plans not gauzy ethereal concepts (most owners would show more at this stage)
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    I'd still like more certainty about whether the City even has the legal right to unilaterally impose a ticket surcharge (tax) on events at Rexall Place, with the proceeds flowing into City coffers.

    Ron Gilbertson of EDE was gobsmacked and had no answer when asked yesterday at the public hearing how he would feel about the City imposing a similar tax on events at the Shaw Conference Centre.

  12. #12

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    I do not understand why we cannot supply free land to Katz, he builds the Arena at his cost, collects all the revenue, charges the City if a public event is held in his facility and he just raises the prices of hockey tickets by 20-25% to pay for the new rink rather than the City adding a ticket tax.

    http://viewfrommyseats.com/2010/08/nhl-ticket-prices/

    Table 1. NHL Teams, Odds of Winning the Stanley Cup & Ticket Prices
    Season ticket price
    (10-11 unless specified)Individual Tickets
    TeamOdds*Glass Nosebleeds Average Ticket Price (09-10)

    Chicago Blackhawks **20.0% $15,048.00 $792.00 $46.80
    Washington Capitals 16.7% $11,044.00 $1,188.00 $44.75
    Pittsburgh Penguins 14.3% na na $55.55
    Detroit Red Wings 12.5% $5,625.00 $1,080.00 $46.60
    San Jose Sharks11.1% $6,880.00 $817.00 $43.07
    Vancouver Canucks 9.1% na na $62.05
    Philadelphia Flyers 7.7% $7,700.00 $1,012.00 $60.25
    Los Angeles Kings 7.7% $4,364.50 $946.00 $47.20
    New Jersey Devils 6.3% $8,140.00 $1,320.00 $48.05
    Boston Bruins *** 5.3% $9,116.00 $1,247.00 $54.94
    Buffalo Sabres 4.8% $3,403.00 $902.00 $36.43
    Tampa Bay Lightning 3.8% $9,999.00 $599.00 $35.76
    Carolina Hurricanes 3.8% $5,775.00 $924.00 $38.38
    Anaheim Ducks 3.8% $9,090.00 $562.00 $43.50
    Montreal Canadiens 3.2% $8,459.00 $1,213.00 $72.18
    Calgary Flames 3.2% $7,135.48 $1,452.00 $59.73
    Nashville Predators 2.8% $8,580.00 $836.00 $48.36
    St Louis Blues 2.8% $9,000.00 $720.00 $37.90
    Phoenix Coyotes 2.8% $11,220.00 $440.00 $37.45
    Ottawa Senators 2.8% $6,226.00 $1,427.00 $52.77
    New York Rangers 2.4% $10,560.00 $1,628.00 $58.57
    Colorado Avalanche 2.2% $8,624.00 $1,012.00 $40.62
    Toronto Maple Leafs 2.0% na na $114.10
    Dallas Stars 1.6% $4,356.00 $572.00 $35.66
    Florida Panthers 1.4% $8,954.75 $354.75 $48.76
    New York Islanders 1.4% $4,620.00 $1,050.00 $51.46
    Minnesota Wild 1.3% $9,900.00 $924.00 $61.28
    Atlanta Thrashers 1.3% $9,900.00 $440.00 $48.51
    Columbus Blue Jackets1.3%$6,600.00$792.00$47.66
    Edmonton Oilers 1.3% $7,268.00 $1,292.85 $59.71
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    One thing I still don't think has been answered clearly is ownership of Rexall. Has anyone definitely determined if indeed Northlands owns Rexall? Discussions at council have said that if structural problems arise with Rexall, "we" (as in Edmonton City Council) would be responsible for repairs.

    Why is the city responsible for repairing the property of Northlands, if indeed they own the arena outright? Regardless of whether or not the city owns the land on which it sits.

  14. #14

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    Tony Caterina pulls shocking arena surprise

    October 26, 2011. 12:23 pm
    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...rena-surprise/

    In a startling development in the City Council arena debate, Councilor Tony Caterina, a longtime outspoken opponent of the deal, seems about to present a new compromise agreement that could seal the plan.

    <SNIP>

    Under the terms of Caterina’s draft proposal, the Katz Group would have to contribute $100 million up front before construction commences.
    Last week, council was told that the Katz Group’s position was that would pay that $100 million over a 30-year term, at a rate of $5.5 million a year.
    Caterina’s draft also says that the new ticket tax to be imposed at Rexall could not be used to fund the new arena.
    The motion further stipulates that if the total construction tenders for the arena building come in at more than $450 million, either the City or the Katz Group could walk away from the deal.
    It’s a surprising turn of events, because Caterina has long been perceived as a Northlands booster and a fierce critic of the downtown arena deal with Daryl Katz.
    There’s one more surprise. Linda Sloan’s office is circulating its own document, which says that the city’s land costs for the purchase of the arena site are NOT $20 million, as was first suggested on the city’s website months ago. The total land cost is now said to be$57 million, <SNIP>
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    ^ I belive you misinterpreted. It is not $100M up front instead of the $5.5M over 30 years. What Tony wants is for some sort of guarantee for Katz to put in his $100 M for the surrounding development.

    Huge difference.

  16. #16

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    It's not my interpretation, it comes from the Edmonton Journal
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwntwn_gme View Post
    ^ I belive you misinterpreted. It is not $100M up front instead of the $5.5M over 30 years. What Tony wants is for some sort of guarantee for Katz to put in his $100 M for the surrounding development.

    Huge difference.
    Yes - based on the discussion, that does sound like it is the case. Katz must spend $30 million on surrounding development up front. The idea, I believe, is it will generate property tax dollars that support the CRL, and therefore support funding the arena payments.

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    I am closing this as the vote is in. We can discuss/debate the results in the other threads.

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