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Thread: Metro Line - North LRT | Churchill to NAIT | Under Construction

  1. #8601

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    Thales Canada had three major challenges on the Metro LRT Line but only two were technical, a senior official said Friday during one of the first times the company has talked publicly about its contract in Edmonton.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/thales-official-breaks-silence-to-say-not-all-metro-line-lrt-delay-is-on-them
    How can any system orientated maintenance shop allow anything like this to happen?


    “Plus, each train has been fixed and modified so many times over the years, not one is identical. They needed “a unique wiring diagram for every single train.”




    This should also raise major concerns about the procurement system and basic build of the units. Over their long lives the designers should assume that nearly every part will require repair or replacement so the idea that every fix had to solve a problem in any kind of unique way, may mean that they were all workarounds to deal with cars that were never designed for ongoing maintenance beyond routine scheduled maintenance.




    .
    Last edited by KC; 12-05-2018 at 12:04 PM.

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    How many of us have cars more than 20 years old? Perhaps the city could retrofit the High Level and Fort Edmonton streetcars with CBTC technology.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    After reading that Journal story I almost have some sympathy for Mr Thales. So all of the old cars have non standard wiring? And the city added all that extra work?
    They still, today, have an unregulated power supply, which means the on-board computer can’t get the consistent 115 volts you’d get from plugging into a normal power outlet today.

    “The voltage can vary quite widely,” he said. It was so bad, when they first hooked five 40-year-old trains together, the voltage swung so low that the brakes came on.“

    Time to hit the gong!

  4. #8604

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    So you can't get a $500 APC UPS to regulate the voltage?
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  5. #8605

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    So you can't get a $500 APC UPS to regulate the voltage?
    Hahahaha!!!

    Maybe a $15,000 APC (same unit though). The bidding process isn’t cheap.

    Then there’s the electrical engineering studies that would have to be done first.


    Then in keeping with tradition, each car would be done as needed over years to ensure each one is uniquely equipped.
    Last edited by KC; 12-05-2018 at 08:57 PM.

  6. #8606

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    You have to wonder how safe it is to have VOBCs installed without providing a constant voltage for them. It's a wonder they haven't had one of the suckers get fried yet.

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    From the Journal article above:
    Edmonton’s Metro LRT line posed two major technical challenges to signals engineers — it has 13 at-grade crossings within three kilometres and required retrofitting 40-year-old trains with new technology. These challenges were underestimated.

    Going in, Thales had never applied its radio-signal based system to at-grade crossings. According to documents previously obtained by Postmedia, Edmonton officials identified that in their evaluation comments before awarding the bid.
    So City officials were aware of these challenges but awarded the contract anyway. We may be building an inferior street level system but at least it will have state of the art signalling must have been the mindset.

  8. #8608

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    Thales are the supposed experts in signalling and they said they could do it. It's not like they're "Bob's Rail Signalling Service" fro New Sarepta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cumberland View Post
    You have to wonder how safe it is to have VOBCs installed without providing a constant voltage for them. It's a wonder they haven't had one of the suckers get fried yet.
    Suddenly I have a mental image of the exploding buses in Rome, Italy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-investigation

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    And think the Skytrain does it with PC or XT technology that still used floppy drives.
    https://www.theloop.ca/vancouvers-sk...-floppy-disks/

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    I wonder if Porky Pig will do the announcements for the NAIT line.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  12. #8612

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    Nope. Sally the Snail
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  13. #8613

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    Slowpoke Rodriguez

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I wonder if Porky Pig will do the announcements for the NAIT line.

    I was thinking along the lines of Gilbert Gottfried would be great.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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    Hugh Jackman after all Wolverine is Canadian

  16. #8616

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    Bob & Doug McKenzie, At least they have an Edmonton connection

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    Definitely down with Tommy Chong being contracted to by the LRT voice.

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    I wonder if Rapid-Fire Theatre might be interested in doing some of voices.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Definitely down with Tommy Chong being contracted to by the LRT voice.
    Hey man, the train is stopping here, if you want to get off, try some of my weed man.

  20. #8620

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    Dave's not here man...
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  21. #8621
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    Don't answer the phone...
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    And don't drive near the Kingsway station.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    OK enough already.

    Global Edmonton‏ @GlobalEdmonton
    Another issue with the Metro Line LRT popped up last night: the train crossing arms came down while the traffic light was green.

    Story:
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4232470/e...n-green-light/
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    And don't drive near the Kingsway station.
    Next stop: Hippie Land. I mean MacEwan Station.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    OK enough already.

    Global Edmonton‏ @GlobalEdmonton
    Another issue with the Metro Line LRT popped up last night: the train crossing arms came down while the traffic light was green.

    Story:
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4232470/e...n-green-light/
    It's going to take a grade crossing smash up to get this fixed....
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  27. #8627
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  28. #8628

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    Why not give Uber a try? LOL
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    It’s making me think of Boston’s Big Dig

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It’s making me think of Boston’s Big Dig
    That reminds me of the time I got drunk with some guys from Boston in a hotel bar in Seattle while the dig was going on. I recall that they said between the mob and the unions - Teamsters? Apparently this doubled the original price tag. Don't think the Ukrainian mafia had anything to do the Metro did they? lol

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    ^well, that was unnecessarily offensive.

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    What part?

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    So your parents are Teamster's or Ukrainian mafia? Which one?

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    ^ in general, and a quick look at your other posts to confirm, you. don't bother replying, you're going on my iggy list so I won't see it anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It’s making me think of Boston’s Big Dig
    While it was late, overbudget, lots of leaks and had some falling concrete slabs that caused a fatality Boston has benefited though

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    I would expect so with a $25B final price tag, all in. That’s billions. The original estimate in planning was 2.8B. I know it’s not comparable but it just gave me thoughts of it.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 12-07-2018 at 04:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    So your parents are Teamster's or Ukrainian mafia? Which one?
    Be careful, a lot of humourless “Mr. Perfects” in C2E.

  38. #8638

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    Don't speak for all Ukrainians. I'm a Ukie and I didn't find that post offensive at all. I found it quite funny actually...Ukrainian mafia!

  39. #8639
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    I wasn’t speaking for Ukrainians, I have plenty in the family and they appreciate fun. I was speaking of those C2E police types. You know, the oh so perfect and political correct ones. There are plenty in here.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 12-07-2018 at 01:03 PM.

  40. #8640

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    I suspect this whole debacle is a 50/50 combination of incompetence from the city and Thales, which is why it seems to drag on forever and seems so difficult to resolve. They keep on trying to blame and threaten each other. It reminds me of two guys in a leaky boat in the middle of the lake fighting instead of trying to fix it, except in this case the bigger problem is neither really has a clue how to fix things. Its worse because with the current city council, it seems the bureaucrats are never wrong and seldom held accountable.

  41. #8641

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    Why can't they replace the hard wired signalling system with something more modern like wireless? Wireless has only been around for 100 years.
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  42. #8642

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    or maybe build it correctly from the start and not run through busy intersections causing a headache for everyone.

  43. #8643

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I wasn’t speaking for Ukrainians, I have plenty in the family and they appreciate fun. I was speaking of those C2E police types. You know, the oh so perfect and political correct ones. There are plenty in here.
    Didn't mean you. That comment was meant for buildings. I got a good laugh out of the Ukrainian mafia comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    So your parents are Teamster's or Ukrainian mafia? Which one?
    Be careful, a lot of humorless “Mr. Perfects” in C2E.
    So indeed correct.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  45. #8645
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I wasn’t speaking for Ukrainians, I have plenty in the family and they appreciate fun. I was speaking of those C2E police types. You know, the oh so perfect and political correct ones. There are plenty in here.
    Didn't mean you. That comment was meant for buildings. I got a good laugh out of the Ukrainian mafia comment.
    Aha. Got it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Why can't they replace the hard wired signalling system with something more modern like wireless? Wireless has only been around for 100 years.
    The method of communication isn't the problem. It's not that they're having shorts and faults on the wiring. They're having problems with the controls logic and sequencing; the software side basically. Whether it's wired or wireless is irrelevant.

  47. #8647

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    Just making a point.

    I understand that but I can see exactly where my uber driver is, how close and when he will arrive on my phone. Trains are a lot simpler that navigating streets.
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  48. #8648
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    Maybe hackers could crash trains easier with wireless.

  49. #8649

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    Thales were hackers....
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  50. #8650
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    Hacks for sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Why can't they replace the hard wired signalling system with something more modern like wireless? Wireless has only been around for 100 years.
    The method of communication isn't the problem. It's not that they're having shorts and faults on the wiring. They're having problems with the controls logic and sequencing; the software side basically. Whether it's wired or wireless is irrelevant.
    I believe I read that the gauge of wiring used was incorrect which can create com issues. I would explain where there’s so much uprooting of wiring alongside the Kingsway parkade.

    Software issues can stem from improperly engineered wiring infrastructure as well.

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    Elise Stolte‏ @estolte
    Guess what's in the agendas this week? A deadline!! Thales says the Metro Line will be open on December 4, 2018. If not, city officials say they can run the line without them.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    From the company that said, oh 18 months ago ... there was no reason not to run the line at full speed and full capacity.
    ... gobsmacked

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    A large cable-stayed bridge across Yellowhead Trail would reshape Edmonton’s northern skyline based on concept designs released Thursday by city officials.

    A rendering of the proposed LRT bridge over the Yellowhead Trail and CN Rail yards to be shown to the public Sept. 13, 2018.


    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...trail-unveiled

    wow. that is a massive bridge and project.

  55. #8655

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    Grade seperation at key intersections? Urban friendly high floor stations? What kinda wizardry is this? I was told this all too expensive and impossible.

  56. #8656

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    ^^^That would definitely be something to see if they decided to build a bridge like that. It does seem a bit grand for a bridge in that area, but I guess that would be necessary to go over the train yards without actually touching the train yards?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    The bridge seems very large for the purpose intended. Can a conventional supported structure not be put in place here?
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    I believe the problem is that the railway companies forbid anything that will interrupt their own services. That makes it nearly impossible to have conventional construction sites in the middle of the rail yard to construct conventional supports. It's like building over a waterway without interrupting the flow of the river.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I believe the problem is that the railway companies forbid anything that will interrupt their own services. That makes it nearly impossible to have conventional construction sites in the middle of the rail yard to construct conventional supports. It's like building over a waterway without interrupting the flow of the river.
    Makes good sense when explained in this manner. Thanks.
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  61. #8661

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    Railways have Federal juristiction and the COE is powerless to force the railways to be expropriated or do anything unless the railways want cash or need something from the city.

    The Fort Road TOD was stymied by the railways who set the rules along the railway ROW including how close that the COE could build.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Railways have Federal juristiction and the COE is powerless to force the railways to be expropriated or do anything unless the railways want cash or need something from the city.

    The Fort Road TOD was stymied by the railways who set the rules along the railway ROW including how close that the COE could build.
    hey have started building what appears to be high density. Nothing spectacular. Just another box with sardines to follow...
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  63. #8663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Railways have Federal juristiction and the COE is powerless to force the railways to be expropriated or do anything unless the railways want cash or need something from the city.

    The Fort Road TOD was stymied by the railways who set the rules along the railway ROW including how close that the COE could build.
    And the feds can't be bothered to force the rail company to allow the city to build a bridge pier between the tracks to save a bunch of money? Even when there is federal funding involved?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Railways have Federal juristiction and the COE is powerless to force the railways to be expropriated or do anything unless the railways want cash or need something from the city.

    The Fort Road TOD was stymied by the railways who set the rules along the railway ROW including how close that the COE could build.
    And the feds can't be bothered to force the rail company to allow the city to build a bridge pier between the tracks to save a bunch of money? Even when there is federal funding involved?
    logistically it would be rather difficult for the type of traffic and size of the yard. The realignments of rail and the potential for accidents is too high would be my guess.
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    I wonder how the city will do this,

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...metro-line-lrt
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  66. #8666

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    I dont get it. If we could of used to old signaling system on the new branch, why did we bother going down this other route?

  67. #8667

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    Medwards, you know the answer to that one. If it works, the COE will spend millions to replace it with the "new and improved" version that is no better than the old one and needs more money to "fix" the new one.

    It is a win, win, win, win situation.

    We get reduced transit service
    We get more traffic snarls
    We get the bill
    We elect the same dumbasses

    Can taxpayers stand any more winning?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-09-2018 at 07:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I dont get it. If we could of used to old signaling system on the new branch, why did we bother going down this other route?
    I had the exact same question. How did the tall foreheads at Silly Hall Transportation Planning not have thought of that before procurement?

    Possibly because it wouldn't actually work?
    ... gobsmacked

  69. #8669

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    but the tall foreheads seem to think it's now feasible?

  70. #8670

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    That was then, this is now...

    New set of tall foreheads after the old tall foreheads retired when the getting was good (with brown envelopes tucked in their pocket).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I don't get it. If we could of used to old signaling system on the new branch, why did we bother going down this other route?
    Concur. Will this city EVER design,OR contract a company to do a job correctly the first time?
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I dont get it. If we could of used to old signaling system on the new branch, why did we bother going down this other route?
    Theoretically, a CBTC system's more detailed data on train position and speed, combined with the ability to speed trains up and slow them down as needed, would have allowed the train to operate at high frequency while causing minimal traffic delays despite all of the at-grade crossings. Unfortunately, a combination of poor reliability and poor programming has delivered the exact opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I dont get it. If we could of used to old signaling system on the new branch, why did we bother going down this other route?
    I've been asking this for 5+ years.

  74. #8674

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    Ohhhh Marcel, what do you or anyone on this forum know? We are just a bunch of armchair engineers that should shut up and let the tall foreheads make all the important decisions. Sit back and just pay your taxes and they don't want to hear a peep out of us...
    .
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