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Thread: Metro Line - North LRT | Churchill to NAIT | Under Construction

  1. #3601

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    How about some facts.... instead of a nice little video

    http://www.stockr.net/Toronto/TrafficInfo.aspx

    the majority of the DVP in the city of ACTUAL Toronto travels at a spped of 20-40 km an hour OR Bumper to Bumper, depending on the flow of traffic. as most people are working 9-5 job with the average commute is entering into the core in the am and leaving the pm these are the "crushes" we need to focus on. the DVP already handles more cars per hour than it was designed for so i don't know how you think you can "zip" through one of North America's most congested cities at 80km an hour. esp when at 1:30 their time the portion that runs through the core is currently bumper to bumper. Even the 401 which you have to pay to use does not operate at it's posted speeds during the day but that really has nothing to do with anything. It just shows how little you know.

    Toronto is currently exploring plans to take down the North east portion of the DVP . It would add about 10 min to the daily commute. The water front agency Has been working for nearly a decade on a harbor front plan, made famous by Rob Fords monorail and Ferris wheel private development and has developed transportation plans that include bike lanes, redeveloped public spaces, more trees more sidewalk cafes and in some places road dieting and of course ate grad and below grade LRT and changing existing street cars to dedicated row use in places from their current mixed use operation. They have installed scramble crosswalks and are building bus exclusive lanes. Little to none of this involves increased capacity for more cars. PPV are not efficent methods of people transportation nor do they create a healthy neighborhood.


    PRT.. ya say you advocate for better but I think ya need to get a firm grasp on where we are first.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 29-04-2014 at 11:53 AM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  2. #3602

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    You are changing the point again! I am not talking about the Don Valley Parking Lot!

    The DVP does not run through the Toronto City downtown. The Gardiner does. These are not the same expressways. You are talking gibberish. Have you ever lived in TO? I have.

    Yes the Gardiner can have traffic snarls and I have been in late night traffic jams at 11 pm on the Gardiner/QEW where you travel at less than 1 kilometer in an hour but that is not normal. Most of the time the Gardiner traffic through downtown Toronto is going 90 to 110 km/hr
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    Guys, this is not the Autobahn, yeesh.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  4. #3604

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    Is this thread about the LRT or the AHD im confused?

  5. #3605

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    ^ its about the LRT which often included traffic movements in the core or surrounding areas.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  6. #3606

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are changing the point again! I am not talking about the Don Valley Parking Lot!

    The DVP does not run through the Toronto City downtown. The Gardiner does. These are not the same expressways. You are talking gibberish. Have you ever lived in TO? I have.

    Yes the Gardiner can have traffic snarls and I have been in late night traffic jams at 11 pm on the Gardiner/QEW where you travel at less than 1 kilometer in an hour but that is not normal. Most of the time the Gardiner traffic through downtown Toronto is going 90 to 110 km/hr
    The DVP and the Gardiner intersect at lake shore. It sits between the danforth and cabagetown at one point.... i assure you it's in Toronto.

    you better read a map...
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  7. #3607

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    For crying out loud. You don't bother to read or understand anything. Don't try teaching me about Toronto. I never stated that the DVP was not in Toronto. You made that up. The DVP is in Toronto but so is the 401 but it does not run through downtown either , the DVP lies east of the downtown core. The Gardiner actually goes through the downtown core.


    Here is a simplified map
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 29-04-2014 at 03:48 PM.
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  8. #3608

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    Am i in the C2E fourm or the C2T.O fourm again im confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post


    Houston. And they have a far healthier core then edmonton.


    And I believe the speed limit on the 610 (I think thats the inner ring around the core) is 55mph.
    What a joke. Have you spent time in downtown Houston? I have. I was almost hit by a vehicle because drivers are so unaccustomed to pedestrians. They may have an impressive skyline, but that's about all Houston's downtown has going for it. Even the more vibrant neighbourhoods such as Montrose aren't walkable. There aren't even sidewalks on every street.

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    Even now pedestrians and cars get hit by LRT trains and we've had the LRT since 1978

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    Ok, I'm lost here a bit. What in the wide world does travelling through the core at higher speeds by car have to do with the NLRT? Yes the LRT will slow traffic a little bit here and there but who cares. If you don't want to be inconvenienced by the LRT then just drive on a different road. Will there be people crying the blues over the extra 20 seconds they have to wait because of an LRT crossing, yes, but that too will eventually go away as people realize that it is now a fact of life that isn't going to go away.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  12. #3612

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    For crying out loud. You don't bother to read or understand anything. Don't try teaching me about Toronto. I never stated that the DVP was not in Toronto. You made that up. The DVP is in Toronto but so is the 401 but it does not run through downtown either , the DVP lies east of the downtown core. The Gardiner actually goes through the downtown core.


    Here is a simplified map
    Central Toronto is more than the core just as Central Edmonton is more than its core....

    Your side distraction doesn't change the fact that you can't go 80 km an hour in bumper to bumper traffic as you earlier purposed.

    Transportation sustainability will not be had by cow towing and accommodation of the car carrying 1.15 people per unit.

    Car centrist cities are not vibrant ones, it take HUGE investment in tax dollars to rectify this and makes mas public transit more expensive to deliver.

    Spending 10-100's of millions of dollars to needlessly protect the ability of cars to move through an intersection 1-2 min faster is asinine.

    a) That extra $$ either makes theline harder to fund, or reduces the amount of system built.
    b) Other centers do the same despite them being harder to engineer, more populated with worse traffic congestion.
    c) continuing to view roads a auto only spaces does not support the complete streets mentality.

    We are flying over the whitemud and 170 st. This makes sense.... kingsway, 82 ave, university... they are just fine as at grade crossings. We learned from the university intersection it could have been better with it continuing to be on grade.

    wait till they try to plan LRT down 82 ave.... I think some of you maye spontaneously implode.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  13. #3613

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    This thread has it all. The anticar db hitting foul balls, the prt nut going on about something not related to this thread. Db clearly pulling things out of context and stretching to make a point.

    Go on... You guys sure know how to pull hair like a bunch of girls

  14. #3614

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    ^ sorry what is a DB

    It seems the thread bully couldn't stay away either.

    so please.... go on.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  15. #3615
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    DB rhymes with tush bag.

    I still think that Kingsway 111th was confusing enough before the LRT, now its even worse, they really should have did a short tunnel under like they did at Belgravia Road.

  16. #3616

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    Db stands for database

    And I'm a bully? That's definitely the kettle calling the pot black

  17. #3617

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    I still think that Kingsway 111th was confusing enough before the LRT, now its even worse
    I think it's better than it was. They removed the left turn going SB on Kingsway to 111 Ave and added the advance green left signal on 106 St onto 111 Ave. More than anything else, traffic gets messed up by those buses having to always turn to get in and out of the Kingsway transfer station.

    Once the bus station at Kingsway is moved to the new (and very sensible) location, it will be a much "tidier" intersection, even with the train tracks.

  18. #3618

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    ^ I am still getting used to it... the removal of the left hand turn gets me almost every time.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    I guess time will tell if the city made the right or wrong decision on Kingsway and 111th the true impact will not be known until the trains start running, they sure messed up on 82nd Ave and 114th Street that should be tunneled.

    FYI: The city anticipates opening now "end of 2014"... sigh.
    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...lrt-study.aspx

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    ^ Think the City was done in by the Health Sciences and McKernan platform locations.

    Not enough space in-between to get under Uni Ave and then back up. Shame - but I honestly think their hands were tied.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    ^ Think the City was done in by the Health Sciences and McKernan platform locations.

    Not enough space in-between to get under Uni Ave and then back up. Shame - but I honestly think their hands were tied.
    Couldn't they have had a lowered station there? Not underground but lowered at least.

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    ^Possibly. But then there'd be poor old 76 Ave.

    Agree tho, Uni Ave is a snafu (and how appropriate a term for Edmonton Transportation) to be made worse when Transit begins running trains on the NAIT line to CP in December (for reasons still unclear).
    ... gobsmacked

  23. #3623

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    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    ^ Think the City was done in by the Health Sciences and McKernan platform locations.

    Not enough space in-between to get under Uni Ave and then back up. Shame - but I honestly think their hands were tied.
    Couldn't they have had a lowered station there? Not underground but lowered at least.
    at what cost?
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  24. #3624
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    They could have but there are also utility tunnels under 114th, so they could have went underground at a few hundred mill more or go steeply uphill which they did. While there are similar tunnels on the Royal Alexandra property Kingsway and 111th are fairly normal (storm sewer, water, gas lines...).

    Perhaps by the time the LRT reaches West Ed the city and malls will have a better relationship and stations will directly connect to the mall, a station directly connecting to Kingsway Mall would have been nice.

  25. #3625

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    ^ Speaking of that!!!!

    They tore down the crap moxies.. next will be the old transit center...

    I fully expect to see the mall extended either the main building or via stand alone ones.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    ^ When did Moxies come down?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  27. #3627

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    Moxie's was closed and demolished in March.

  28. #3628

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    They are rebuilding it there is a thread about it somewhere.

  29. #3629

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    With Smittys being punted from the mall you think they would move moxie's there...
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  30. #3630

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    Mall's think now? With the way WEM runs i have learned nvr to expect anything smart to happen.

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    Actually I can see Kingsway Mall just adding more parking, that mall get's so busy I don't doubt they want to add more parking spots.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    I haven't been out to Kingsway in over a year. When the Metro line opens, I'll be going more often.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  33. #3633

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnoblade View Post
    Mall's think now? With the way WEM runs i have learned nvr to expect anything smart to happen.
    Agreed. Southgate was another example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    ^Possibly. But then there'd be poor old 76 Ave.

    Agree tho, Uni Ave is a snafu (and how appropriate a term for Edmonton Transportation) to be made worse when Transit begins running trains on the NAIT line to CP in December (for reasons still unclear).
    Metro line will only run from Health Sciences to NAIT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    ^Possibly. But then there'd be poor old 76 Ave.

    Agree tho, Uni Ave is a snafu (and how appropriate a term for Edmonton Transportation) to be made worse when Transit begins running trains on the NAIT line to CP in December (for reasons still unclear).
    Metro line will only run from Health Sciences to NAIT.
    Actually, from here:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...Q_20032014.pdf

    In order to open the new LRT line as soon as possible, Metro Line trains will initially run between Century Park Station and NAIT Station at a reduced frequency by the end of 2014. In the longer term, Metro Line trains will run between Health Sciences/Jubilee Station and NAIT Station. This longer-term plan best addresses network ridership needs.

    The Capital Line will continue to operate between Century Park Station and Clareview Station.
    So for at least the first little while, there were be two routes running past the UofA Hospital.

    Eve

  36. #3636

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    ^ sounds like they are short LRV's or something.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    ^Possibly. But then there'd be poor old 76 Ave.

    Agree tho, Uni Ave is a snafu (and how appropriate a term for Edmonton Transportation) to be made worse when Transit begins running trains on the NAIT line to CP in December (for reasons still unclear).
    Metro line will only run from Health Sciences to NAIT.
    Actually, from here:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...Q_20032014.pdf

    In order to open the new LRT line as soon as possible, Metro Line trains will initially run between Century Park Station and NAIT Station at a reduced frequency by the end of 2014. In the longer term, Metro Line trains will run between Health Sciences/Jubilee Station and NAIT Station. This longer-term plan best addresses network ridership needs.

    The Capital Line will continue to operate between Century Park Station and Clareview Station.
    So for at least the first little while, there were be two routes running past the UofA Hospital.

    Eve
    I have to think that this is some type of inaccuracy because I don't know how the line south of health sciences is able to handle both. Unless they are planning on reducing frequency on the capital line too. Which I think is unacceptable.

    And wouldn't this actually use MORE rather than fewer LRVs?

  38. #3638

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    ^ Reducing frequency and increasing train length has been done quite a bit in the construction phase lately. It's mostly not a big problem to adjust to. After all, 5 cars is something the Capital Line can do.

    In this case the frequency reduction need only affect Stadium to Clareview, which fairly is the least crowded section of the Capital Line.

    I'll just be relieved to get the Metro Line up on its feet.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ Reducing frequency and increasing train length has been done quite a bit in the construction phase lately. It's mostly not a big problem to adjust to. After all, 5 cars is something the Capital Line can do.

    In this case the frequency reduction need only affect Stadium to Clareview, which fairly is the least crowded section of the Capital Line.

    I'll just be relieved to get the Metro Line up on its feet.
    It seems small-city to have service that is less frequent than 5 minutes. Frankly, one of the selling features of the NAIT line was the ability to go to 2.5 minute headways along the downtown portion. Not having this is a major downgrade. The project isn't delivering what was promised.

  40. #3640

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    ^ To be fair, you're correct, but unless they're certain no trains hit other trains or jump the tracks, that's the burden I'd rather bear.

    I think they might still manage 5 minute frequency from Churchill to C.Park, but make sure you know how many cars the next train has before you pick your spot at the platform!
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  41. #3641
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    Think you'll have 2.5 minute frequency come summer 2015 when the signalling (finally) gets done.

    Seems what you'll get short-term is ten minute frequency on both lines - which effectively means between CP and Churcill ... a three car metro train followed five minutes (or so) later by a five car capital train.

    So, what he said, Stadium to Calreview and Churchill to NAIT will be affected.

    My best guess anyway.
    ... gobsmacked

  42. #3642

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ Reducing frequency and increasing train length has been done quite a bit in the construction phase lately. It's mostly not a big problem to adjust to. After all, 5 cars is something the Capital Line can do.

    In this case the frequency reduction need only affect Stadium to Clareview, which fairly is the least crowded section of the Capital Line.

    I'll just be relieved to get the Metro Line up on its feet.
    It seems small-city to have service that is less frequent than 5 minutes. Frankly, one of the selling features of the NAIT line was the ability to go to 2.5 minute headways along the downtown portion. Not having this is a major downgrade. The project isn't delivering what was promised.
    yet
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    We just need to be patient... unfortunately

  44. #3644

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    not everything happens all at once every time.

    Its easier to add more lrv's than it is to give back ones that aren't needed yet.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  45. #3645
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    That may be true, but why would e ever want to give them back?

    If we have more than we need then we store them for a few years until we do. It won't be long, with transit ridership growing at least 3% a year for the last while. On the other hand, if we have too few, it will take at least 6 months from identifying the need to council approval and probably longer, and another 2-3 years from order to delivery, by which time our needs could easily have increased by over 10%.

  46. #3646

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    ^ storage comes with a cost as well...

    J.I.T has been proven time and time again to be the best solution for materials procurement.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    ^Possibly. But then there'd be poor old 76 Ave.

    Agree tho, Uni Ave is a snafu (and how appropriate a term for Edmonton Transportation) to be made worse when Transit begins running trains on the NAIT line to CP in December (for reasons still unclear).
    Metro line will only run from Health Sciences to NAIT.
    Actually, from here:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...Q_20032014.pdf

    In order to open the new LRT line as soon as possible, Metro Line trains will initially run between Century Park Station and NAIT Station at a reduced frequency by the end of 2014. In the longer term, Metro Line trains will run between Health Sciences/Jubilee Station and NAIT Station. This longer-term plan best addresses network ridership needs.

    The Capital Line will continue to operate between Century Park Station and Clareview Station.
    So for at least the first little while, there were be two routes running past the UofA Hospital.

    Eve
    So all the new system maps they put up a year ago will be inaccurate.

  48. #3648
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ storage comes with a cost as well...

    J.I.T has been proven time and time again to be the best solution for materials procurement.
    No

  49. #3649

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ storage comes with a cost as well...

    J.I.T has been proven time and time again to be the best solution for materials procurement.
    No
    Double no.

    Buying in larger quantities and storing the lower cost vehicles with the ultra low interest rates is far cheaper than the rapidly increasing costs of hardware. Also combining orders with other cities buying the same type has been done before for buying ETS fleets.

    EDP is talking through his hat again.
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    You also go to the bottom of the list. Did someone seriously suggest this as an alternative?

    Maybe the same people who ordered the right signalling equipment J-I-T?

    Oh right, year delay. Is that Just-in-time or just-stoopid?
    ... gobsmacked

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    The Question:
    The FAQ on the Metro Line opening delay suggests that during the "staged opening", trains will run from NAIT all the way to Century Park. Is this a misprint? I was under the impression the crossings at University Avenue, 76 Avenue, and 51 Avenue were at capacity.

    Please clarify! Thanks!


    The response:
    Good question!
    It is not a misprint. We are planning to run Metro Line trains between Century Park and NAIT temporarily when we open the new line. This won't impact the crossings you mentioned though because trains will be running at the same frequency. Trains currently run every five minutes during peak hours. We'll continue to run trains every 5 minutes when we open the new LRT line, except every third train will be a Metro Line train. In other words, during peak hours Capital Line trains will run every 5 or 10 minutes and Metro Line trains will run every 15 minutes.
    Please feel free to get in touch with any other questions.
    $2.00 $2.25 $2.50 $2.75 $2.85 $3.00 $3.20 $3.25

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstock View Post
    The Question:
    The FAQ on the Metro Line opening delay suggests that during the "staged opening", trains will run from NAIT all the way to Century Park. Is this a misprint? I was under the impression the crossings at University Avenue, 76 Avenue, and 51 Avenue were at capacity.

    Please clarify! Thanks!


    The response:
    Good question!
    It is not a misprint. We are planning to run Metro Line trains between Century Park and NAIT temporarily when we open the new line. This won't impact the crossings you mentioned though because trains will be running at the same frequency. Trains currently run every five minutes during peak hours. We'll continue to run trains every 5 minutes when we open the new LRT line, except every third train will be a Metro Line train. In other words, during peak hours Capital Line trains will run every 5 or 10 minutes and Metro Line trains will run every 15 minutes.
    Please feel free to get in touch with any other questions.
    15 minute service - at peak times
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  53. #3653
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    The new digital displays they installed only show the next two trains. So, if they are running metro line trains every third train, there will be times when no metro line train would even listed on the digital displays.
    And the maps won't help either, since they show the line operating at a terminus of health sciences/jubilee - which is also incorrect.

    There are so many problems here that I fear we are going to see very very poor ridership on this line.
    Last edited by AAAAE; 07-05-2014 at 09:04 PM.

  54. #3654
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstock View Post
    ... In other words, during peak hours Capital Line trains will run every 5 or 10 minutes and Metro Line trains will run every 15 minutes.
    Please feel free to get in touch with any other questions.
    Great ...screw everyone. Would someone there please stand and take a bow for being such a gigantic F**k-up?

    10 minute frequencies during peak hours on the existing line is somehow a good thing? And yes, I realize that all trains will be going as far as Churchill - but some will be (I'm hoping) 5 car consists - the others only 2 or 3 cars.

    Richard Nixon's cover-up was less Machiavellian. Mind you, he had to stand up and resign.
    Last edited by McBoo; 07-05-2014 at 09:52 PM. Reason: Reasoned second thought
    ... gobsmacked

  55. #3655

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    That's awful. Might as well just keep running the same buses if it's going to be 15 minutes between trains.

    The fact that it makes the service on the original line worse as well just amplifies what a stupid idea it is to halfass the new line until it's running properly.

  56. #3656
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    My guess is that the "Capital Line" will run a train every 5-5-10-5-5-10 during peak and the "Metro Line" will run 15-15-15, etc...

    The only "winners" are those who commute between the southside up to, and including, downtown.

    I would prefer not opening it until they can do what they built it to do.
    $2.00 $2.25 $2.50 $2.75 $2.85 $3.00 $3.20 $3.25

  57. #3657

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ storage comes with a cost as well...

    J.I.T has been proven time and time again to be the best solution for materials procurement.
    No
    Double no.

    Buying in larger quantities and storing the lower cost vehicles with the ultra low interest rates is far cheaper than the rapidly increasing costs of hardware. Also combining orders with other cities buying the same type has been done before for buying ETS fleets.

    EDP is talking through his hat again.
    No the smart solution ios to sign a contract for staged delivery over a sext of time.

    if the city orders 40 lrvs they all don't come off the line at the same time.

    Just in time IS the most efficent model. LOL the entire manufacturing industry recognizes this, retailers recognize this... the whole distribution system recognize this.

    so I NO.. your NO's
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  58. #3658

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jstock View Post
    ... In other words, during peak hours Capital Line trains will run every 5 or 10 minutes and Metro Line trains will run every 15 minutes.
    Please feel free to get in touch with any other questions.
    Great ...screw everyone. Would someone there please stand and take a bow for being such a gigantic F**k-up?

    10 minute frequencies during peak hours on the existing line is somehow a good thing? And yes, I realize that all trains will be going as far as Churchill - but some will be (I'm hoping) 5 car consists - the others only 2 or 3 cars.

    Richard Nixon's cover-up was less Machiavellian. Mind you, he had to stand up and resign.
    I think some posters are being overly dramatic. A slight reduction on branch that has the mid level ridership numbers (NE) Better service to NAIT than the current main direct buses (30 min) and the same level of coverage to the South which has the highest ridership.

    you guys are too much.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  59. #3659
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jstock View Post
    ... In other words, during peak hours Capital Line trains will run every 5 or 10 minutes and Metro Line trains will run every 15 minutes.
    Please feel free to get in touch with any other questions.
    Great ...screw everyone. Would someone there please stand and take a bow for being such a gigantic F**k-up?

    10 minute frequencies during peak hours on the existing line is somehow a good thing? And yes, I realize that all trains will be going as far as Churchill - but some will be (I'm hoping) 5 car consists - the others only 2 or 3 cars.

    Richard Nixon's cover-up was less Machiavellian. Mind you, he had to stand up and resign.
    I think some posters are being overly dramatic. A slight reduction on branch that has the mid level ridership numbers (NE) Better service to NAIT than the current main direct buses (30 min) and the same level of coverage to the South which has the highest ridership.

    you guys are too much.
    No.. I am afraid that you must learn to expect better. Please raise your standards and try visiting hong kong, london, montreal, or any city with a mass transit system.

    This is not the southern US where 15 minute peak service on mostly grade separated rail line is the norm. In fact such service is completely and utterly inadequate.

    And a reduction in service frequency for a good third of the existing system while we're at it.... what a poor way to run a transit "system".

    ETS is not a toy system. It is a backbone of transportation and needs to be treated as such.

  60. #3660

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    With the mix of bus routes that will be eliminated when the NE line is up and running, will the total frequency of LRT trips be less than the buses that it replaced?


    Current peak service
    Route 8 15 minutes
    Route 9 8 minutes
    Route 15 15 minutes
    Route 97 6 minutes
    Route 130 15 minutes
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  61. #3661

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    the city of edm should be embarrassed by this. considering a city to the south has a downtown track that shares lrt from two lines. and vancouver has a DRIVERLESS system where trains from two lines share track. edmonton transits problem is that it's run like a city department and not a business.

    consider this, the line should be open now. there's a nearly billion dollar investment sitting idle because someone in planning the line didn't plan for the inevitable sharing of track that would happen. and when it does open, late, it won't be at peak efficiency.

  62. #3662
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    I really wonder how these project managers who manage LRT or any other city project can miss these details.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  63. #3663

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    These are not 'details' but rather critical operational requirements that have not been figured out in the initial planning stages of the line. Managers and engineers should be held accountable and fired. The problem is that many are contractors and public employees who can simply get another job in the private sector in this heated job market and it is hard to find competent replacements and attract them to our city. Even if we find competent people, it would still take a long time to fix the mess and the issues are systemic of the entire Transportation and ETS departments. No wonder Mandel called them intransigent.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  64. #3664
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    Unfortunately we will have this growing pain, I just hope that they will learn from this and not continue to make similar mistakes in the future.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  65. #3665

    Default

    As several posters pointed out, this issue of dual trains on a line was well known before they put a shovel into the ground for the NAIT line. I still remember back in the 80's that running a second line down Jasper Ave was being discussed and that signalling changes were mentioned in an EJ article.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  66. #3666
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    Can't agree more. Remember how the screwed up the 23 ave overpass. It seems to me the employees at the city are just putting in time so they can retire early on a fat pension.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  67. #3667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Can't agree more. Remember how the screwed up the 23 ave overpass. It seems to me the employees at the city are just putting in time so they can retire early on a fat pension.
    To be fair it is not clear if it is the city at fault or the contractor, Thales Group (pronounced telus).

  68. #3668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    With the mix of bus routes that will be eliminated when the NE line is up and running, will the total frequency of LRT trips be less than the buses that it replaced?


    Current peak service
    Route 8 15 minutes
    Route 9 8 minutes
    Route 15 15 minutes
    Route 97 6 minutes
    Route 130 15 minutes
    Not all those routes will be eliminated. But I think you are correct that with this latest development, the service quality will actually be reduced from buses from a frequency perspective.

  69. #3669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Can't agree more. Remember how the screwed up the 23 ave overpass. It seems to me the employees at the city are just putting in time so they can retire early on a fat pension.
    The city screwed up the estimate on 23rd ave...that isn't even in the same category as this.

  70. #3670

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    I would imagine that the 8 will either terminate at NAIT or be extended to run further west, leaving the downtown/Mill Woods portion to another route. The 15 is basically an express version of the 9 and could see it and the 9 basically staying as they are since there's little crossover. Kingsway ave and 101 st will still need bus service after all.

    the 97 is essentially a one way express from Millwoods to NAIT, reversing course in the PL peak so, again, not much effect there.

    the 130 also goes between NAIT and the University but by a vastly different route, not much overlap there but it could see reduced service if more people are travelling between the two education centres and the space between doesn't need the 15 minute service. Netween the 9 and the 130 Northgate/NAIT has 6 minute service which seems like it's excessive. Add the 15 and it's over served. Perhaps the 15 could be routed straight to downtown and the other two routes could provide service from Northgate to NAIT before splitting off as they do now.

    Perhaps we need to replace some of them with a super express from Northgate to NAIT - then on to the University or perhaps Westmount - JP = Meadowlark -WEM. Concentrate on connecting the transit centres with express routes and serve the neighbourhoods with local only routes.

  71. #3671
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Can't agree more. Remember how the screwed up the 23 ave overpass. It seems to me the employees at the city are just putting in time so they can retire early on a fat pension.
    To be fair it is not clear if it is the city at fault or the contractor, Thales Group (pronounced telus).
    The city project managers appeared on camera making lame excuses. Their job is to stay on top of the situation and measure the progress of all the contractors and alert city council to any failings and make recommendations to rectify the situation. That is their job. You don't wait to the eleventh hour and say "Oh by the way....." This is a major failure on their part and they should be held accountable.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  72. #3672

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    With the mix of bus routes that will be eliminated when the NE line is up and running, will the total frequency of LRT trips be less than the buses that it replaced?


    Current peak service
    Route 8 15 minutes
    Route 9 8 minutes
    Route 15 15 minutes
    Route 97 6 minutes
    Route 130 15 minutes
    Not all those routes will be eliminated. But I think you are correct that with this latest development, the service quality will actually be reduced from buses from a frequency perspective.
    I am afraid of that as well.

    I'd rather wait until the LRT is fully operational than settle for lousy bus and lousy LRT connections while we wait.

    I also want the people responsible for this major screw-up to be replaced. I was counting on being able to use the Royal Alex LRT station and the multi-use trail that runs behind it starting this summer.

  73. #3673

    Default

    The nait line will only free up 8 physical buses. Predictions of mass route changes are premature I think
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  74. #3674

    Default

    WOW! 8 buses. IMHO, certainly worthwhile spending $755 millions for a 3.3 km extension to churn transit ridership and upgrade them from buses to LRT.

    This was one ill thought out project that was only initiated after the WLRT route was abandoned because it was ill conceived too. I guess one mistake leads to another even more expensive one.

    "The LRT is a tool for our future. But we have to decide to use it to do the right things. Because at $100 million per kilometre above ground, or even more, it isn't a tool we can make mistakes with."

    Edmonton must build an LRT with the downtown as a regional hub to keep the system affordable and support the idea of the city core as a vibrant centre for work, entertainment and living, Mandel said, adding it will only succeed if people are finally convinced to leave their cars at home.

    "I am amazed that we don't seem to have a clear view of what LRT is supposed to actually do. We are being asked to make LRT the major capital spending item for the next 30 years -- and let me be clear, I agree it should be -- but we must get the vision right."

    In a later interview, Mandel said he wasn't taking a potshot at city staff.

    "I'm frustrated with the intransigence they have shown when they look at this thing, as are many of the people I talk to who don't feel their voices are being listened to."

    Over the winter, Mandel called the proposed 87th Avenue route "a huge mistake" he would never support.
    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...d-44588d931638


    At this rate or planning, construction and outrageous costs we may have an LRT and streetcar system that we will all be too old to use and our grandchildren will pay for.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  75. #3675

    Default

    WOW! 8 Buses now, and how many more in the future ? WOW! Did someone not inform mr PRT that this line will eventually go all the way to St Albert and replace many more buses?

    WOW! Is this the same Edmonton PRT that wants to put PRT poles up all around the city to replace the existing road network? WOW! That will certainly cost much more and offer much less... WOW!

    Article completely unrelated to this thread, but what the heck, I'll post it anyways
    WOW! Sometimes its hard to tell when PRT is joking/being sarcastic/or actually serious. Most of the time its a combination of all, that comes across clear as mud (or most PRT plans)


    src: http://assets.nydailynews.com/
    Last edited by Medwards; 15-05-2014 at 09:27 AM.

  76. #3676

    Default

    Nice personal ad hominem attack when I did not even mention PRT and was actually supporting your interests in the West LRT route. I never stated that PRT would replace the road network. Quit lying. Why don't you keep your vitriolic comments to yourself? Terms of Service Rule #2: Criticizing an idea is encouraged, but criticizing the person who posted it is absolutely not.

    The two line are related because after the WLRT line was shelved, they brought forward a low priority NAIT route rather than the more important Millwoods line. Yes, the Epcor Tower was being built and placing the tunnel accommodations underneath was a window of opportunity. The CoE missed a window many years ago when they built the GM Campus and GM asked the CoE to specify where they wanted to run a LRT line through the campus but after years of dithering by the Transportation Department, GM built without any LRT provisions.

    Yes, we all know that the NAIT LRT MAY, EVENTUALLLLY get to St. Albert if we even can get St. Albert to participate. Would this line still be limited to a 15 minute frequency?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-05-2014 at 10:11 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  77. #3677
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    ^ i dont really get what you have against the line. more LRT is a good thing.
    as for the grant mac stuff, thats in the past we've moved forward since then.
    be offended! figure out why later...

  78. #3678

    Default

    the 15 minute limitation is temporary. GMU was built what? 25 years ago now? When the city had absolutely no money for LRT? And what does it matter anyways? The city isn't now building under GMU either.... the line heads north, not west. Connecting all the major educational institutes in the city is a major priority for the COE... Hence why this line went ahead before those other lines that weren't even shovel ready until late last year.

    There is no personal attack either. Pull your manties up. As for vitrolic comments... you sure make enough against the COE and the transportation department.

    (I wont further derail this with PRT stuff... but you know damn well the images you posted in that thread showing the WPRT plan LOL... also downtown.)

  79. #3679
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    I unapproved 2 posts. I am open to having those reapproved if the authors will reduce the vitriol.

    EDIT. Since there are replies, I reapproved the posts. Please tone the inflame-o-meter down!
    Ow

  80. #3680
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    8 buses... don't you mean 8 bus routes, each bus, the LRT will have 1 driver so for every 15 minutes you will save the costs of 7 drivers. Obviously this will vary at different times a day.

    I'm going to guess the LRT will probably use about the similar amount of energy per person as a bus would, obviously someone would have to do the math though, and obviously a longer train would have more savings, but if my memory is correct the platforms are currently designed for 3 car trains with room for up to 5 car trains (except for NAIT which is a temporary station)

  81. #3681

    Default

    ^ NO I mean 8 buses.

    In a report tabled by ETS the opening of the Nait Line will free up 8 physical buses.

    Many of the routess that run from Kingsway to DT or the other way around are major routes. they simply wont stop because of a rather short spur line.

    Like Medwards said. This line is the start of so much more and had to be done in order to be part of a bigger picture/system. The line as it stand right now is small and will be the lightest used.

    The only bus line that i can assume will end with any amount of certainty is the Nait University special. (130 I think)
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 15-05-2014 at 11:44 AM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  82. #3682

    Default

    the other main point is the something had to be started to build by a certain time in order to be eligible for greentrip funding. this (portion of the) line was the only line that could be ready in time.

  83. #3683

    Default

    This short line will be infinitely more useful than using that green trip cash for the proposed Gorman station.

    Also, it was a good time to build it, as the city saved something like $150 million in future costs by building the tunnel while the hole was excavated for the Epcor tower

  84. #3684
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    PRT - this line, even short and expensive, connects all major institutions, both major hospitals, a major mall and will serve Blatchford...

    A waste? Hardly.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  85. #3685

    Default

    I said low priority.

    Ridership from either Millwoods or WLRT will be far higher. Last time I looked there was a mall and a hospital on each of those two lines as well.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  86. #3686

    Default

    it was the highest priority at the time because the other lines weren't shovel ready. Either way, this portion of the line is 90% ready or more. Kind of arguing about water that's already passed under the bridge at this point.

  87. #3687
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    Sure and those lines are critical, but this was very much a priority and necessity.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  88. #3688
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    8 buses in total ... whoa

  89. #3689

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    That's what i read based on what ETS supplied.

    Still that is still 8 buses more than we had and 8 less we have to buy in the short term.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  90. #3690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I said low priority.

    Ridership from either Millwoods or WLRT will be far higher. Last time I looked there was a mall and a hospital on each of those two lines as well.
    Greentrip funding can't be used for a time machine. It was a choice of a) Gorman, b) NAIT or c) Nothing.. Of those three choices NAIT gave us the biggest bang for the buck. It got the North line to the surface, added two major education institutions and the other major hospital to the LRT accessible locations as well as giving Blatchford the distinction of being the only new neighbourhood that will have LRY service from day one.

    It's not a people pod mover but it's pretty darn important. Where's the plan for the ULTRA system in Blatchford that the city could have for no money out of pocket?

    Bueller? Bueller?

  91. #3691

    Default

    I have just started a new facebook group asking that green trip used to R&D Edmontons very first Tardis....

    Our transit colours are BLUE!!!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  92. #3692
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    ^ I don't know what a tardis is and I somehow doubt it is really relevant to this thread.

    but, back to this line - the reality is that the line is good routing wise. It is great to have this built. I am even fine with leaving the buses mostly unchanged.

    What is not okay is this reduction in frequency. And I agree that someone should be held responsible for this. Maybe they already are being.

  93. #3693

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I have just started a new facebook group asking that green trip used to R&D Edmontons very first Tardis....

    Our transit colours are BLUE!!!
    But not tardis blue dude.

  94. #3694
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    The new TARDIS line for Edmonton, "get anywhere and to anytime, whenever you want, just don't blink." =)
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  95. #3695

    Default

    ^ lol!!

    Too awesome..

    AAAE--- lighten up.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  96. #3696
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    Out of curiosity, was it ever determined what that little "tower" thing east of the Macewan station is for?

  97. #3697

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    Air intake/exhaust

  98. #3698
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    Gotcha, thanks

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    Looking at the arena pics, does anyone else think the exit/entrances to the Macewan(sp) station seem way to small.

    I imagine this station will be pretty busy but the paths and entrances seem really small. after a hockey game its gonna be nuts.

    http://eyesy.com/arena/2014/may/05-26-2014-GR.jpg

    also where does the East entrance/exit (bottom of that picture) go?
    Last edited by richardW; 26-05-2014 at 07:44 PM.
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    Maybe? But I wonder if more arena-goers will gravitate towards Churchill station in order to: 1) benefit from the increased frequency of the two-line service; and 2) enjoy an enclosed, heated station rather than standing outside.

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