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Thread: Metro Line - North LRT | Churchill to NAIT | Under Construction

  1. #7601

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    Hearing other people tell you about the problems and experiencing them first hand are very different. He's a busy guy, right? So throw him in a car and make him miss a few meetings from sitting at a red light for 12 minutes. Or show up late to events because the train moves slower than grandma with her walker. If he doesn't experience the frustrations taxpayers do, they won't be properly addressed.

    Uber? Considering it's been operating illegally, I can see why he wouldn't use it. That would be bad optics. I'd at least hope he's seen the app and how it works though.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  2. #7602

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    ^ Agreed on both, basically, although as we've repeated, despite the low speed, the train is still 5-10 minutes faster than the express buses formerly running from Downtown to NAIT, and chosen by at least 6 times the riders.

    The biggest issue is definitely the pedestrian and motor vehicle impediment most specifically at 111 Avenue. The LRT riding experience is passable.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  3. #7603

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    6 times the riders???

    Do you have a source for your statistics?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  4. #7604

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    ^ No, just my own observations.

    I rode the express bus three times myself, once there were a total of 3 people including myself and the driver, at most there was 20ish, I think. It was a nice ride in the BYD, but hardly a high bar for ridership. I'd say 6X is extremely conservative, although not counting total bussing covering the same ground.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  5. #7605

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    so now its 5-10 minutes faster. Earlier in this thread it was a few minutes faster.

    now its chosen by 6x times the amount of riders?

    Good golly.

    There's boosters, then there's JayBee... who is pretty much flat out lying or just completely making stuff up based on very little anecdotal experiences.

    "I rode the bus once, and and and and there was like 3 people on it. but that must mean all bus routes are like this, and buses suck. But trains!!! weeeeeee I love trains. Burp. Trains rule. There was a few more people on it, so yeah, 6x!!!!! 6x times the amount of passengers, please ignore any real facts already well presented and discussed on this thread, I have some anecdotal experiences that definitely are more accurate because BURP I experienced them MYSELF!!! Have I mentioned lately that the velodrome going to westmount sucks because its not connected to transit, or what I consider transit (LRT only)??? hyuk hyuk hyuk." sorry for the paraphrasing JayBee... but in a nutshell right?

  6. #7606

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    JayBee thinks a statistics sample of 3 is a trend

    Funny, my observations is that the #9 buses were so packed that they daily left students behind at the stops in front of Vic. My daughter was often late home from school.

    I had to laugh when I checked the Metro Line Wiki page.

    It states Operating speed 70 km/h (43 mph)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Line
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 02-02-2016 at 01:31 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  7. #7607

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    ^ why would the 9 be relevant to what I said?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  8. #7608

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    Why wouldn't the 9 be relevant to this discussion? The 9 goes to between NAIT and Downtown no? And its nearly as fast as Metro Line LRT....

    deflect, defer, dither... you should work for ETS or City Hall.

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    Anyone know what's faster, the #12 bus on 101st & Jasper or the lrt to Royal Alex?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  10. #7610

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ Agreed on both, basically, although as we've repeated, despite the low speed, the train is still 5-10 minutes faster than the express buses formerly running from Downtown to NAIT, and chosen by at least 6 times the riders.

    The biggest issue is definitely the pedestrian and motor vehicle impediment most specifically at 111 Avenue. The LRT riding experience is passable.
    Reading comprehension 10.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  11. #7611
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    The #9 (North end) is between dt and Northgate, its a articulated bus
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  12. #7612

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    I would take the 9 or the 12. One of those will come by every 7 minutes. You'll be at the hospital before the next LRT even gets to your station.

  13. #7613

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    ^ I know what the 9 is, but it's certainly not an express bus. It's even slower than the express bus was.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  14. #7614

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ Agreed on both, basically, although as we've repeated, despite the low speed, the train is still 5-10 minutes faster than the express buses formerly running from Downtown to NAIT, and chosen by at least 6 times the riders.

    The biggest issue is definitely the pedestrian and motor vehicle impediment most specifically at 111 Avenue. The LRT riding experience is passable.
    Reading comprehension 10.
    shortening goal posts in attempts to make a point? The LRT riding experience is passable?

  15. #7615

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ I know what the 9 is, but it's certainly not an express bus. It's even slower than the express bus was.
    And yet its somehow just as quick as the flucking LRT you are jerking off to.

  16. #7616

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Anyone know what's faster, the #12 bus on 101st & Jasper or the lrt to Royal Alex?
    Not positive, probably comes down to waiting time.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  17. #7617

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    The number 9 was faster from downtown to Vic because it stopped right in front of the school. The Metro LRT trip from Downtown is slower as the students go right past Vic and then have to walk back 400 meters.
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  18. #7618

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ I know what the 9 is, but it's certainly not an express bus. It's even slower than the express bus was.
    And the Metro line is certainly NOT Light-RAPID-Transit
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  19. #7619

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    LRT stands for Light RAIL transit.

    Not sure where you get the rapid part.\ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail

  20. #7620

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    Light Rapid Transit is also used sometimes. In Edmonton it was used for years when they first built the line. Sorry, old habits die hard

    It also became the first city in Western Canada to operate a rapid transit system
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmont...t_Rail_Transit

    They probably changed it because it proved not to be rapid but it was on rails... LOL
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  21. #7621

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ Agreed on both, basically, although as we've repeated, despite the low speed, the train is still 5-10 minutes faster than the express buses formerly running from Downtown to NAIT, and chosen by at least 6 times the riders.

    The biggest issue is definitely the pedestrian and motor vehicle impediment most specifically at 111 Avenue. The LRT riding experience is passable.
    Fair enough, then make him drive a dozen routes that cross this area during rush hour. How LRT interacts with existing transportation networks is just as important as LRT ridership. I guarantee if he has 20 critical commitments and, as an exercise, he drove those routes and missed important events, he'd be smashing his steering wheel and fuming. I even bet he'd be on the phone with people trying to explain why he's late. Kind of like thousands of taxpayers.

    If everyone involved in the design and implementation of the system experienced this, they would probably be more inclined to find ways to avoid it.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  22. #7622

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    ^ agreed fully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The number 9 was faster from downtown to Vic because it stopped right in front of the school. The Metro LRT trip from Downtown is slower as the students go right past Vic and then have to walk back 400 meters.
    From City Centre to MacEwan or Vic, buses are quicker, to the hospital as envaneo asked I'm not sure, to NAIT (and one day beyond), LRT is significantly quicker.

    Bear in mind not everyone is starting at CCM.

    BTW, am I the only one in this present argument who actually rode the Ookspress (as well as the Metro Line?)
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  23. #7623
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ agreed fully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The number 9 was faster from downtown to Vic because it stopped right in front of the school. The Metro LRT trip from Downtown is slower as the students go right past Vic and then have to walk back 400 meters.
    From City Centre to MacEwan or Vic, buses are quicker, to the hospital as envaneo asked I'm not sure, to NAIT (and one day beyond), LRT is significantly quicker.

    Bear in mind not everyone is starting at CCM.

    BTW, am I the only one in this present argument who actually rode the Ookspress (as well as the Metro Line?)
    I miss the heck out of the Ookspress.

    The Metro Line may or may not be faster than the buses from DT but you forget that for a lot of NAIT students that take it, it cuts out a transfer for them which can take a long time. I know the Metro Line will come on time whereas I can wait upwards of 10 minutes to catch a bus

  24. #7624

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    ^ Exactly. It's not the disaster that some wish to portray it. The disaster is 111 Ave.

    Can't wait to see what it looks like with functioning signalling, both for riders and drivers. Unfortunately we all have to wait.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  25. #7625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    So criticize that decision. Riding the metro has zero bearing on it at all. It is ridiculous to think that Iveson isn't aware of the issues just because he didn't ride the train for 2 stops.
    You're right, he should instead have to sit in the line of traffic waiting for the train to eventually cross the roads at a snails pace. He doesn't even need to be in a car, he can sit in traffic on his bicycle...would be best if he did this on a day with a temperature 30 degrees below 0 with a nice 30 km/h wind out of the north west. Im sure he would reconsider the current approach to LRT construction and operation in the CoE after that.

  26. #7626
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    Thanks for the responses everyone.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  27. #7627
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    I wonder if having the trains cross together at Kingsway would work any better.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  28. #7628

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    ^ you mean Kingsway instead of 111 Ave? Not sure why that would work better.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  29. #7629

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ Exactly. It's not the disaster that some wish to portray it. The disaster is 111 Ave.

    Can't wait to see what it looks like with functioning signalling, both for riders and drivers. Unfortunately we all have to wait.
    The disaster was caused by LRT! and running trains at half speed is not quite the success you seem to want to call it.

  30. #7630

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    They should reroute the Valley Line down 111th Ave and cross the Metro Line and let them fight out the signalling issues LOL

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  31. #7631
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    Has there been any update from the city about the B, B+ or A solution. It's been 5 months since this opened and its starting to look like the temporary solution is going to become the permanent solution.

  32. #7632

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    ^I feel the same, i can't imagine that there are people working on figuring this out everyday since it opened... but I have no idea.

  33. #7633

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    ^^ no updates. Last September or so Iveson said administration would have an update by last December, I said at the time that that might translate as March of this year, so personally I'm not expecting one soon.

    I suspect no changes during the current post secondary school year.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  34. #7634
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    Metro Line Testing:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/ets/transit_p...lrt-study.aspx

    Update - February 19, 2016

    For the next two Sundays, February 21 and 28, Metro Line service will be temporarily suspended until after end of service Saturday night to 11 am on Sunday morning.

    The line needs to be shut down during this time to allow for software testing. It’s faster, safer and easier to do these kinds of tests when the line is shut down, and on days with lower ridership numbers.

    The testing is part of the City’s efforts to get the Metro Line into full operation. During the test, one train will be on the track – without passengers – and flag people will be stationed at every crossing.

    No timeline is available as to when the Metro Line will be fully operational.

    ETS will provide replacement bus service from the Metro Line stops during this time. Visit www.takeETS.com for more information.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  35. #7635
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    I hopped on a 20 dollar mountain bike that I bought off kijiji the other day; a bike that was cheap because the derailleur system was slipping like crazy, and beat the Metro line to NAIT from the arena lol.

  36. #7636

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    Maybe the derailleur system was getting the wrong signal from the Thales system.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  37. #7637

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I hopped on a 20 dollar mountain bike that I bought off kijiji the other day; a bike that was cheap because the derailleur system was slipping like crazy, and beat the Metro line to NAIT from the arena lol.
    you could've saved 20 bucks and likely jogged quicker than LRT.

  38. #7638

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Metro Line Testing:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/ets/transit_p...lrt-study.aspx

    Update - February 19, 2016

    For the next two Sundays, February 21 and 28, Metro Line service will be temporarily suspended until after end of service Saturday night to 11 am on Sunday morning.

    The line needs to be shut down during this time to allow for software testing. It’s faster, safer and easier to do these kinds of tests when the line is shut down, and on days with lower ridership numbers.

    The testing is part of the City’s efforts to get the Metro Line into full operation. During the test, one train will be on the track – without passengers – and flag people will be stationed at every crossing.

    No timeline is available as to when the Metro Line will be fully operational.

    ETS will provide replacement bus service from the Metro Line stops during this time. Visit www.takeETS.com for more information.
    Nice to see the organisation actually communicate for a change.

    Also nice to see it's just the Metro Line affected rather than the entire system.

    That's two things that weren't happeing during the Charlie Stolte era.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  39. #7639

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I hopped on a 20 dollar mountain bike that I bought off kijiji the other day; a bike that was cheap because the derailleur system was slipping like crazy, and beat the Metro line to NAIT from the arena lol.
    Yeah, system doesn't work yet.

    I can walk from Clareview to Londonderry faster than if I have to wait for the 181 bus.

    That system doesn't work yet either.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  40. #7640
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    I hope the NAIT line can go to Plan B signalling soon (50 km/h max, CBTC on Metro Line).

    I think the higher levels of government, and the city riders, want to have some degree of confidence, when the SE line starts construction, and Rogers Place approaches completion.
    Last edited by The_Cat; 21-02-2016 at 02:12 PM.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  41. #7641

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I hopped on a 20 dollar mountain bike that I bought off kijiji the other day; a bike that was cheap because the derailleur system was slipping like crazy, and beat the Metro line to NAIT from the arena lol.
    Yeah, system doesn't work yet.

    I can walk from Clareview to Londonderry faster than if I have to wait for the 181 bus.

    That system doesn't work yet either.
    Yeah but the 181 did not cost $650 million and worked on the first day...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  42. #7642

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    ^ oh so you can answer.

    I asked you two questions in the Valley Line thread. What have you got besides strawman and idiocy?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  43. #7643

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    I did not know that I had to answer to you.
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  44. #7644
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I hopped on a 20 dollar mountain bike that I bought off kijiji the other day; a bike that was cheap because the derailleur system was slipping like crazy, and beat the Metro line to NAIT from the arena lol.
    Yeah, system doesn't work yet.

    I can walk from Clareview to Londonderry faster than if I have to wait for the 181 bus.

    That system doesn't work yet either.
    You can still take the #11 from Clareview to LM, still faster then the #182 or even the 187 around 3pm or the #137 West side of Clareview (limited hours though.)
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  45. #7645

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I did not know that I had to answer to you.
    Oh no, you just get to run around irresponsibly and pick to avoid the battles you've lost badly.

    Your response to this decides whether you're on my ignore list or not. Like Meds you used to actually read and put thought into your posts but have become the very thing you used to criticise -- ad hominem without concern for actual issues.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  46. #7646

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I hopped on a 20 dollar mountain bike that I bought off kijiji the other day; a bike that was cheap because the derailleur system was slipping like crazy, and beat the Metro line to NAIT from the arena lol.
    Yeah, system doesn't work yet.

    I can walk from Clareview to Londonderry faster than if I have to wait for the 181 bus.

    That system doesn't work yet either.
    You can still take the #11 from Clareview to LM, still faster then the #182 or even the 187 around 3pm or the #137 West side of Clareview (limited hours though.)

    The 11 basically ties walking, but I have to walk to the other transit centre to pick it up (130 metres horizontal, plus going down all the stairs and back up all the stairs.)

    The 137 is exactly the non-broken bus we've needed there since 137 Avenue was built. Has to be more than peak hours to attract a crowd though.
    Last edited by JayBee; 23-02-2016 at 10:20 AM.
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  47. #7647
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    ^ Totally agree. I used to take the #137 after 2pm week days when I was working out at Direct buy during the Summer of 2014. I'd get a ride home which was nice and Saturdays. It was a long ride out as the #137 is a straight line from Clareview to LM and Northgate. No meandering around like the #11. I like that sharp turn the #11 makes though off of manning drive there
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  48. #7648

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I did not know that I had to answer to you.
    Oh no, you just get to run around irresponsibly and pick to avoid the battles you've lost badly.

    Your response to this decides whether you're on my ignore list or not. Like Meds you used to actually read and put thought into your posts but have become the very thing you used to criticise -- ad hominem without concern for actual issues.
    Maybe I just did not want to get into one of your endless circular arguments.

    And what was this all important post of your that determined the fate of the free world?

    Such drama awaits...

    BTW, you misspelled criticize. LOL
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  49. #7649

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    ^ Endless circular arguments where basically true statements are maintained. As if there were anything wrong with that.

    And which post? Gee, duh, uhhhhh, how about the one where I quoted you that you've been too chicken to address? The one where I ask you to substantiate your idiotic strawmanning.

    And BTW, I spell in the British mode, not the American.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  50. #7650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Maybe the derailleur system was getting the wrong signal from the Thales system.
    Here's to hoping it's the only thing that slips off it's track.

    #ouchmyankle

  51. #7651

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    ^^Post number please?

    We are all shivering in antici...









    ...
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  52. #7652

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Maybe the derailleur system was getting the wrong signal from the Thales system.
    Here's to hoping it's the only thing that slips off it's track.

    #ouchmyankle
    Hope the bike does not take a year or more to fix and slows down the other bike. LOL
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  53. #7653

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^Post number please?

    We are all shivering in antici...






    For all the people who can't figure out what EdmontonPRT couldn't figure out:

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ double standard warning.

    How come it is OK on the Metro LRT line that the train can cause 15 minute delays for car traffic but on the Valley line they are building a railway overpass for the LRT to prevent 15 minute delays?
    ^ hallucination warning.

    Where on Earth are you getting that it's okay for the Metro Line to cause a 15 minute delay?

    Or, for that matter, that it factually does cause a 15 minute delay?
    Two simple questions.

    Substantiate what you put out there, or your writing is irrelevant.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  54. #7654

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    Here were your two questions:
    Where on Earth are you getting that it's okay for the Metro Line to cause a 15 minute delay? Or, for that matter, that it factually does cause a 15 minute delay?
    Sorry, I was wrong. Not 15 minutes but 16 minutes.

    Drivers could be stuck at LRT crossing for up to 16 minutes: Metro LRT update
    Emily Mertz By Emily Mertz September 3, 2015
    Web Producer Global News“Motorists are being advised to expect delays and be patient as during peaks hours it may take up to four cycles for a vehicle to have the opportunity to clear one of these intersections and that means up to 16 minutes waiting in a queue that extends multiple blocks.”
    Source http://globalnews.ca/news/2199883/dr...ro-lrt-update/

    Sorry that was the facts. You keep defending the Metro Line like is is a religious icon.

    You should be sorry that you keep defending a poorly planned and poorly implemented 3.3 km LRT extension that cost over $650 million and provides a marginal improvement in transit service. If the Metro Line was built to increase transit ridership, it is an abysmal failure For $650 million, we could have eliminated fares for years or reduce fares to increase transit use system wide.

    Even ETS acknowledges that 5 cent increase reduces ridership by 430,000 even with the new Metro Line

    Tickets, transit passes and cash fares are all creeping up again Feb. 1 as Edmonton Transit seeks to raise $1.5 million in new revenue.

    The cash fare will increase to $3.25 from $3.20 and other payment methods will see similar increases. City staff estimate the price increase means 430,000 fewer transit rides in 2016, even as Edmonton’s population continues to increase and the city runs the Metro Line for its first full year. http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ease-next-week
    Last edited by ThomasH; 24-02-2016 at 06:35 PM.
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  55. #7655

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Here were your two questions:
    Where on Earth are you getting that it's okay for the Metro Line to cause a 15 minute delay? Or, for that matter, that it factually does cause a 15 minute delay?
    Sorry, I was wrong. Not 15 minutes but 16 minutes.

    Drivers could be stuck at LRT crossing for up to 16 minutes: Metro LRT update
    Emily Mertz By Emily Mertz September 3, 2015
    Web Producer Global News“Motorists are being advised to expect delays and be patient as during peaks hours it may take up to four cycles for a vehicle to have the opportunity to clear one of these intersections and that means up to 16 minutes waiting in a queue that extends multiple blocks.”
    Source http://globalnews.ca/news/2199883/dr...ro-lrt-update/
    This person has quoted an article from before the Metro Line opened...
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  56. #7656

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    The City planners expected 16 minute delays. That was the expectation. Luckily the delays are ONLY 10 minutes.


    Late changes to Edmonton Metro Line LRT linked to traffic problems
    By: Ryan Tumilty Metro Published on Wed Jan 13 2016
    Traffic delays caused by the line where it crosses both 106 Street and Princess Elizabeth Avenue were initially expected to be around 16 minutes at peak times, but have actually come in at 10 minutes, according to data the city collected last year.
    http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...o-traffic.html

    BUT you knew that didn't you?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  57. #7657

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    Only in Edmonton would they congratulate themselves on a transit "improvement" that decreases transit ridership AND delays traffic for only 10 minutes.

    It is infuriating trying to get around Kingsway now, even as a pedestrian (light will say 'don't walk' for almost 5 minutes, while a train with half a dozen riders inches past you).

    They should shut it down again until it works properly.

  58. #7658
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    MrOilers if you're walking to NAIT you're better taking the crosswalk that is on the west side of NAIT avoiding the 106th Street crosswalks.

  59. #7659

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    I haven't walked to NAIT, but I often walk across 106 Street (between Moxie's and McDonald's), and I have been jaywalking whenever a train is coming because standing there freezing during the hilariously long 'don't walk' sign is a waste of time. Also, people walk around the crossing barriers all the time now. The trains are so slow, people are confident walking right across the tracks while the lights and bells are on.

  60. #7660

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^Post number please?

    We are all shivering in antici...






    For all the people who can't figure out what EdmontonPRT couldn't figure out:

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ double standard warning.

    How come it is OK on the Metro LRT line that the train can cause 15 minute delays for car traffic but on the Valley line they are building a railway overpass for the LRT to prevent 15 minute delays?
    ^ hallucination warning.

    Where on Earth are you getting that it's okay for the Metro Line to cause a 15 minute delay?

    Or, for that matter, that it factually does cause a 15 minute delay?
    Two simple questions.

    Substantiate what you put out there, or your writing is irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The City planners expected 16 minute delays. That was the expectation. Luckily the delays are ONLY 10 minutes.


    Late changes to Edmonton Metro Line LRT linked to traffic problems
    By: Ryan Tumilty Metro Published on Wed Jan 13 2016
    Traffic delays caused by the line where it crosses both 106 Street and Princess Elizabeth Avenue were initially expected to be around 16 minutes at peak times, but have actually come in at 10 minutes, according to data the city collected last year.
    http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...o-traffic.html

    BUT you knew that didn't you?
    Okay so there we have it, my second question: you've finally admitted it isn't a 15 minute delay.

    Now the first question: where or what provoked you to imagine that someone thought a 15 minute delay was acceptable? Why was this idiotic strawman retort linked to my post? Can you so stupidly interpret my saying "111 Avenue is a disaster" as that I think "a 15 minute delay is acceptable"?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  61. #7661
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I haven't walked to NAIT, but I often walk across 106 Street (between Moxie's and McDonald's), and I have been jaywalking whenever a train is coming because standing there freezing during the hilariously long 'don't walk' sign is a waste of time. Also, people walk around the crossing barriers all the time now. The trains are so slow, people are confident walking right across the tracks while the lights and bells are on.
    A prime example of why there should always be truth in traffic signalling, without exception. Excessive safety margins just get ignored. A train should always be entering the crossing within 10 seconds of the gates going down. If that isn't happening, the system is programmed incorrectly.

  62. #7662

    Default

    Again, I can walk from Clareview to Londonderry faster than waiting for the 181 bus.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  63. #7663

    Default

    Why would you take the 181? The 11 is more direct isn't it? Shunning Logic!

  64. #7664

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    Meds, I'm trying to give you a chance, and yeah, you're starting to get it.

    Those hundreds of thousands of people thumbing their noses at your 'logic' and hopping in their cars without even considering your 'cheeep' buses might actually have a point.

    Anyways, since you ask, actually, someone has already answered your question:

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post

    The 11 basically ties walking, but I have to walk to the other transit centre to pick it up (130 metres horizontal, plus going down all the stairs and back up all the stairs.)

    The 137 is exactly the non-broken bus we've needed there since 137 Avenue was built. Has to be more than peak hours to attract a crowd though.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  65. #7665

    Default

    hundreds of thousand of other people choosing another method because transit is slow... Metro line? Valley line in the future? I don't see the point you are trying to make.

    A bus can be run like LRT, with frequency, speed and limited stops, and right of way.

  66. #7666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    A bus can be run like LRT, with frequency, speed and limited stops, and right of way.
    But it won't capture the hearts & minds of those who are biased against BRT like JayBee, who is adamant he's just too good for busses.

    Can you put a pricetag on capturing hearts & minds? I wouldn't have thought so but evidently it's in the 7-10 figures range.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  67. #7667

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    A bus can be run like LRT...
    Here, in Edmonton, we take it a step further and run LRT like a bus.

  68. #7668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    A bus can be run like LRT, with frequency, speed and limited stops, and right of way.
    But it won't capture the hearts & minds of those who are biased against BRT like JayBee, who is adamant he's just too good for busses.

    Can you put a pricetag on capturing hearts & minds? I wouldn't have thought so but evidently it's in the 7-10 figures range.

    ETS provides poor service and then ETS raises fares 5 cents and they loose 430,000 transit rides.

    Maybe if they lowered the price to $2.50 (15 nickels) that they would gain 15 x 430,000 = 6,450,000 transit rides, or about 20,000 riders per day, double that of the Metro Line.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  69. #7669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    A bus can be run like LRT, with frequency, speed and limited stops, and right of way.
    But it won't capture the hearts & minds of those who are biased against BRT like JayBee, who is adamant he's just too good for busses.

    Can you put a pricetag on capturing hearts & minds? I wouldn't have thought so but evidently it's in the 7-10 figures range.
    You're getting there. Good to see.

    We have to understand that people have choices and they will exercise them. If transit is crap, it's not going to win

    Next lesson: we all define our own crap. Good luck with it.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  70. #7670

    Default

    Transit is crap when it's: slow, unreliable, and infrequent.

    It could be a bus, lrt, or a hot air balloon. Doesn't matter.
    You can't determine whether it fits the bill until its operating, BUT there are no-brainer measures that can be done to ensure it.
    Mixing right of ways guarantees slower speeds, unreliability and limited frequencies.
    In other words: crap transit.

    People hate buses because they have no priority, are mixed among general traffic and stop every block. Now people are starting to hate LRT for that same reason

  71. #7671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    You're getting there. Good to see.
    I disagree vehemently with your position on LRT vs BRT & it only grows with every post you make on the issue as you keep recycling the same vapid arguments & ask leading questions. I'd also appreciate it if you could dial back the condescension & arrogance in your posts. It certainly doesn't help your case & makes the forum a worse place to visit.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  72. #7672

    Default

    ^ sorry about that, I thought you were the one who said 'biased against BRT like JayBee, who is adamant he's just too good for busses.' or something.

    I assure you I know what I call crap. I am the authority on what I call crap, and I'm far far far from being alone. Yes our bus system could be a lot better (and hopefully soon will be) but we're talking about a permanent structural change in the skeleton of the City costing billions either way, and BRT will not capture the same share.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  73. #7673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    BRT will not capture the same share.
    To pull a nugget from the other LRT thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    How does Ottawa have a higher ridership per capita using only buses/BRT than Edmonton with our LRT+Buses?
    If Ottawa can do it, why can't we? Is Edmonton full of too many people with incorrect notions of what BRT is (like yourself)? Couldn't part of the massive savings BRT brings to the table be funneled off into a PR campaign to better educate Edmontonians about the inherent advantages BRT brings to a city our size?

    Nah, better to spend multiple times the money just to pander to ignoramuses.

    (FYI: All questions in this post are rhetorical. For my own sanity & to avoid "touching the poop" as it were, you're now lucky #13. Your signal to noise ratio is too low to bother tuning in anymore. Shame.)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  74. #7674

    Default

    ^ I'm assuming you think that's rhetorical, so no matter, you're going to keep thinking bus aversion and rail efficiency are somehow imaginary. You're wrong. Like it or not.

    People have different opinions about everything. Noone will like buses because you try to tell them to like buses. And you call me arrogant?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  75. #7675

    Default

    Jaybee, your statements are strictly opinions and not based upon scientific and studied research.

    Transport Canada Information
    Vancouver BC
    bus rapid transit (BRT), queue jump lanes, transit signal priority
    Transit Impact
    Reported
    • 23% of the users of the 98 B-Line were former car drivers or car passengersTravel time savings: Scheduled travel decreased by 20%
    • Annual GHG emissions reduced ≈1800 tonnes CO2e
    • reduction of vehicles and vehicle hours of operation of approximately 25%.
    • net increase of 1.2 million passengers per year



    BRT line induced a 23% mode shift from auto to transit on the corridor, resulting in a net increase of 1.2 million passengers per year. The net increase of about 4,000 passengers per day represents a 29% growth on the corridor from 2001 to 2002.
    http://data.tc.gc.ca/archive/eng/pro...prj18e-832.htm

    http://bic.asn.au/information-for-mo...-rapid-transit





    http://bic.asn.au/information-for-mo...-rapid-transit

    Please read
    Potential for modal shift by passenger car and motorcycle users towards Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) in an Asian developing city
    Levinson et al. reviewed the BRT case studies around the world and reported that up to 72% of BRT riders in Houston were diverted from cars and 20% of BRT riders in Vancouver previously used cars. The mode shift of the Nantes BRT (BHLS, Buses with High Level of Service) in France was 29% from private cars . This was rather high because the busway was deployed in a previously poorly served area and public space was reorganized to restrict car use. Only 18% of BRT (Orange Line) riders in Los Angeles were shifted from private cars . In China, on the Beijing BRT Line 1, only 12.4% of riders previously were private car users .
    Evidence that when BRT is done right, the effects can be significant
    McDonnell and Zellner examined the effectiveness of different BRT schemes. Various scenarios focused on the difference between the environment with and without BRT, and the ancillary policies, including exclusive bus lane, off-boarding ticket machines, express bus stops and improved bus frequency. The model results showed that all integrated measures can achieve up to 50% of bus share, while bus share was only 20% for the base case of bus with no exclusive bus lane and the ancillary measures.
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...86111215000138
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  76. #7676

    Default

    ^ Riiiiight.

    All you've provided evidence for is that BRT is more attractive than plain buses, without any discussion of costs. And an unrelated graphic that seems to show some type of pollution of a completely unknown scope.

    What you need to do is prove that BRT deters more people from clogging roads by driving than LRT on a route like Millwoods-Downtown-WEM.

    You're not even close.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  77. #7677

    Default

    We don't have to prove that BRT will have more ridership than LRT. That is not what the point is or the objective. The whole point is how we can increase transit usage and reduce our reliance on automobiles. The second point is how to provide the best transit service at the least cost per passenger. The cost-benefit ratio is what is most important. If a LRT line costs $1.8 billion and moves 100,000 per day of which 30,000 are former car users but if a BRT project costs $180 million and you have 40,000 riders and 10,000 former car drivers, the costs are one tenth as much but only one third the mode shift. BUT you cost per mode shift is 300% less and you still have $1.6 billion in capital to spend on 9 more BRT projects that could take 10,000 former car drivers each off the road, or 90,000 less for a total of 100,000 compared to only 30,000 from your single LRT line. At the same time you have improved the transit options for everyone with 10 new high speed BRT route that for a network to all parts of the city.

    Why don't you provide some facts to back up your baseless statements and answer to the facts?

    We have given you multiple examples that prove increases in mode share of buses simply if you increase frequency, transit signal priority, fare collection, express service and other simple transit service improvements that cost far less than the jaw dropping $100 million per kilometer costs of a slow streetcar.

    Sorry that you do not like facts and you simply think that you can convince us with your endless banter and unsupported statements.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 24-02-2016 at 06:17 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  78. #7678

    Default

    ^ Instead of peeing your pants again, why don't you answer my question first:


    Where on Earth are you getting that it's "okay" for the Metro Line to cause a "15 minute" delay?


    Your credibility in this or really any other argument depends on you answering a now 4-day old challenge.

    Point blank: you make things up.

    Disprove if you can.

    Change your tactics if you can't.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  79. #7679
    C2E SME
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    Well anyways let's bring the BRT debate to the appropriate thread. This thread is about the LRT line not on the what if this or that was built instead.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  80. #7680

    Default

    On another note, that 105 Street/105 Ave intersection is a stupid one.

    People jaywalking everywhere around that overcomplicated mess, especially when a train is going by. A group of people will never wait for 3 minutes on a corner of a dead intersection during a 'Don't walk' signal.

  81. #7681
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    Presumably the normal state is without that construction project on the corner and the lights are designed around that. But, yes, I agree with you. It can't be that big a deal to look at the timing of the lights given the conditions that apply now. It's nice it's a scramble corner though, because the corners aren't obvious.

    I just used that corner an hour ago. Nearly got flattened by the hordes of students trying to catch up to a train that was already leaving the station.

  82. #7682

    Default

    30 posts unapproved, one post edited.

    I think we can all agree that the situation with the Metro line isn't good.
    Having said that, you all need to take a day off from this debate to calm down.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  83. #7683

  84. #7684

    Default



    http://www.mpstables.com/

    I'm surprised that city admin don't go for something like this as it appears this is all they may be able handle. Anything more modern is beyond them.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  85. #7685

    Default

    Not expensive enough...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  86. #7686

    Default

    It seems most of them could not organize a one man parade.
    They'll spend another whack of money on studying it again. The only people getting any satisfaction out of the Metro line are the consultants.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  87. #7687

    Default

    How great is Metro line going to be come Sept this year when Rogers Arena opens up and we still only have 15 minute frequency running with a max of 3 cars on that line. Convincing people to take transit instead of driving is going to be hard, and once you get into a habit... well, you know.

    (Yes, I'm fully aware that people can walk to other nearby stations like churchill central or bay... but will they?)

    This debacle is only going to get worse unless something is in the works for getting this fixed... but all I'm hearing is crickets. Does the city even know if a fix can be made yet?

    now bring on JayBee who will tell us how this isn't a complete failure and things ... things might get better in the future... maybe.

  88. #7688
    highlander
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    Default

    The city needs to decide to fix it, they can't just keep limping along without a plan. The right thing to do at this point is probably bite the bullet and spend the extra $30M or whatever to have a 100% CBTC system that we can know will work 100% when it's done. They have to ignore the sunk costs of previous upgrades because it's just not working.

  89. #7689
    Plug C2E into my veins!!!
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    The concrete work is already starting to look like crap. Cracks and chipping away. Lots of layered converted shattering and breaking up like shale.

  90. #7690
    C2E SME
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    ^Not questioning it, where though?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  91. #7691

    Default

    ^ I've seen it at the road crossings near both MacEwan and K/RAH.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  92. #7692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The city needs to decide to fix it, they can't just keep limping along without a plan. The right thing to do at this point is probably bite the bullet and spend the extra $30M or whatever to have a 100% CBTC system that we can know will work 100% when it's done. They have to ignore the sunk costs of previous upgrades because it's just not working.
    I suspect you're right.

    Should hopefully have some kind of update closer to the NAIT summer.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  93. #7693

    Default

    I thought we were suppose to have an update in December that was pushed back to January and now if one is to believe Jaybee april or may?
    Just like the opening of this, nobody knows wtf is going on.

  94. #7694
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    Looks like there's more testing on the line on March 6 and 13, between Bay/ESq and University.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  95. #7695

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    The concrete work is already starting to look like crap. Cracks and chipping away. Lots of layered converted shattering and breaking up like shale.
    I wonder if this is partly due to them having to jackhammer parts of it up after it was first delayed because they didn't install the signalling system correctly?

    But yeah, I noticed crumbling concrete around MacEwan too. It doesn't help that it's all completely flat around the tracks and forms puddles anytime the snow melts.

  96. #7696

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    The concrete work is already starting to look like crap. Cracks and chipping away. Lots of layered converted shattering and breaking up like shale.
    I wonder if this is partly due to them having to jackhammer parts of it up after it was first delayed because they didn't install the signalling system correctly?

    But yeah, I noticed crumbling concrete around MacEwan too. It doesn't help that it's all completely flat around the tracks and forms puddles anytime the snow melts.
    Sad to hear that $650M does not necessarily buy you on time or quality.

    If it is failing now, every year the freeze thaw cycle gets worse.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  97. #7697

    Default

    So both times yesterday when I was in Churchill the NAIT train waited for transferring riders from the Southbound Capital Line train.

    Is this always happening now?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  98. #7698
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
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    ^ Yes, because this is where the Metro line branches off. The driver always says at Churchill, "This is a Capital line going to Clareview."
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  99. #7699

    Default

    I still think it's funny that they named the lines. It obviously could not be any other line going to clareview.

  100. #7700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Yes, because this is where the Metro line branches off. The driver always says at Churchill, "This is a Capital line going to Clareview."
    er, what I mean is, twice yesterday I observed: Southbound Capital Line pulls into Churchill after Northbound Metro Line, yet the Metro Line driver patiently waits for people to get off Capital Line, and if transfering lines, allows them to board before departing.

    Several times in the early days of the line being open, the Metro Line drivers would lock their doors and zoom away from the despairing would-be riders left behind on the platform to wait fully 15 minutes for the next Metro Line train. Very needlessly inefficient and rude, I thought.

    I'm wondering if that has officially changed.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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