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Thread: Metro Line - North LRT | Churchill to NAIT | Under Construction

  1. #8201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    We were talking about overhead LRT guideways and how people here freaked out about the overhead wires of the trolley system.
    OK, I'll play too.

    I am glad Edmonton got rid of the clutter of overhead trolley wires and the unreliable trolley buses.

    I like Vancouver's elevated LRT, and I wish we would grade separate our LRT as much as possible like they have, because that makes everyone's transportation more efficient.

  2. #8202
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    The elevated lines are just super. Re tearing out the trolley lines. It works out here because it's far less dense. With Van and T.O. there are so many pedestrians and bike riders and so many more buses in a smaller space that all diesel would be choking people. Here we have a lot of room, far fewer buses and far fewer people along the streets plus good prairie winds to blow the fumes to Sask so ya, diesel works. Also, we are in the oil business after all.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 16-09-2016 at 10:49 AM.

  3. #8203

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Lol.

    Whatever.

    I just hope the testing on the patch goes well. For those who evidently missed it, it's already a hit with riders and the traffic disruption has been halved.
    If the city learned to build things properly, it would have created no traffic disruption, worked correctly from the beginning, and been on time and on budget. There hasn't been a major City project since I've lived in Edmonton that hasn't been a major boondoggle.

    South LRT: Poor design, massive traffic disruptions even today
    Metro LRT: Poor design, failed implementation
    James McDonald: Delayed, over budget, shoddy work
    Quesnel: Delayed, over budget
    Groat: Delayed over structural issues
    Walterdale: Delayed over sourcing issues
    Jasper Place sewer trunk: Delayed, over budget
    Millwoods sewer trunk: Delayed, over budget

    Every. Single. Large. Project. The city should stick with fixing sidewalks and outsource major infrastructure projects to an entity that has a track record of slightly less than a 100% f--kup rate.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  4. #8204

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    ^ I think it's pretty well known that I'm pulling for Option Four (elevated, densifying a parking lot) and am frustrated by the delays.

    I'm just saying this project in particular is a far more nuanced reality than portrayed.

    E.g., it was actually under budget, politically crucial for building the arena, and is well used.
    Last edited by JayBee; 16-09-2016 at 11:41 AM.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  5. #8205

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    ^being under budget is irrelevant if the project doesn't open on time or does not work properly.

    It's well used because it is the only option for some. I used to take the bus downtown before the LRT hit the southside. They were packed and well used, but doesn't mean they didnt absolutely suck.

    This is the type of twisted logic the CoE uses to justify their poor decision making and planning, this project cannot be defended.

  6. #8206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    It's well used because it is the only option for some.
    Yup. Some of the bus routes that went from Kingsway-Downtown have now been redirected, replaced with the slow and unreliable Metro train.

  7. #8207

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    ^being under budget is irrelevant if the project doesn't open on time or does not work properly.

    It's well used because it is the only option for some. I used to take the bus downtown before the LRT hit the southside. They were packed and well used, but doesn't mean they didnt absolutely suck.

    This is the type of twisted logic the CoE uses to justify their poor decision making and planning, this project cannot be defended.
    Nonsense.

    Had one person not effed up the signalling at the strategic level, it would widely be seen as a success.

    Things simply aren't so black and white.

    And re:buses, no, I'm positive 12,000 people were not riding the rerouted lines. It is reducing traffic. (while coincidentally slowing traffic, but they're not the same thing.)
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  8. #8208

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Had one person not effed up the signalling at the strategic level, it would widely be seen as a success.
    That's true.

    However, since the signalling is still effed up (over 2 years past projected opening date), the line is a failure.

  9. #8209

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    Aspects of it for sure (traffic, pedestrians) but for riders, even while it's jam-packed, slow, and infrequent at rush hour, nobody on it wants to go back to buses, and ridership I believe is at projected volumes even with those massive handicaps.

    It's a strange failure that is clear progress.

    Like I said though, I hope the testing goes well, as we could be near full design functionality, which would be better for everyone.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  10. #8210

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Lol.

    Whatever.

    I just hope the testing on the patch goes well. For those who evidently missed it, it's already a hit with riders and the traffic disruption has been halved.
    If the city learned to build things properly, it would have created no traffic disruption, worked correctly from the beginning, and been on time and on budget. There hasn't been a major City project since I've lived in Edmonton that hasn't been a major boondoggle.

    South LRT: Poor design, massive traffic disruptions even today
    Metro LRT: Poor design, failed implementation
    James McDonald: Delayed, over budget, shoddy work
    Quesnel: Delayed, over budget
    Groat: Delayed over structural issues
    Walterdale: Delayed over sourcing issues
    Jasper Place sewer trunk: Delayed, over budget
    Millwoods sewer trunk: Delayed, over budget

    Every. Single. Large. Project. The city should stick with fixing sidewalks and outsource major infrastructure projects to an entity that has a track record of slightly less than a 100% f--kup rate.
    And let is not forget the legendary 23 Ave interchange fiasco.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  11. #8211
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    ^ And we haven't the same Provincial tax Laws like Vancouver. Meanwhile Nait line is down today.
    Last edited by envaneo; 17-09-2016 at 08:35 AM.
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  12. #8212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Lol.

    Whatever.

    I just hope the testing on the patch goes well. For those who evidently missed it, it's already a hit with riders and the traffic disruption has been halved.
    If the city learned to build things properly, it would have created no traffic disruption, worked correctly from the beginning, and been on time and on budget. There hasn't been a major City project since I've lived in Edmonton that hasn't been a major boondoggle.

    South LRT: Poor design, massive traffic disruptions even today
    Metro LRT: Poor design, failed implementation
    James McDonald: Delayed, over budget, shoddy work
    Quesnel: Delayed, over budget
    Groat: Delayed over structural issues
    Walterdale: Delayed over sourcing issues
    Jasper Place sewer trunk: Delayed, over budget
    Millwoods sewer trunk: Delayed, over budget

    Every. Single. Large. Project. The city should stick with fixing sidewalks and outsource major infrastructure projects to an entity that has a track record of slightly less than a 100% f--kup rate.

    You forgot Rogers Place!

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    Anthony Henday Drive as well.

  14. #8214

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    AHD is not a city project.

  15. #8215

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Lol.

    Whatever.

    I just hope the testing on the patch goes well. For those who evidently missed it, it's already a hit with riders and the traffic disruption has been halved.
    If the city learned to build things properly, it would have created no traffic disruption, worked correctly from the beginning, and been on time and on budget. There hasn't been a major City project since I've lived in Edmonton that hasn't been a major boondoggle.

    South LRT: Poor design, massive traffic disruptions even today
    Metro LRT: Poor design, failed implementation
    James McDonald: Delayed, over budget, shoddy work
    Quesnel: Delayed, over budget
    Groat: Delayed over structural issues
    Walterdale: Delayed over sourcing issues
    Jasper Place sewer trunk: Delayed, over budget
    Millwoods sewer trunk: Delayed, over budget

    Every. Single. Large. Project. The city should stick with fixing sidewalks and outsource major infrastructure projects to an entity that has a track record of slightly less than a 100% f--kup rate.

    You forgot Rogers Place!
    In what way? Rogers went smooth. The city did not manage that project. Unless you were using it to prove my point..
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  16. #8216

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason403 View Post
    Anthony Henday Drive as well.
    AHD went very well and I believe was on time and on budget. It was severely underbuilt at the beginning, but as far as the actual construction and management went, I don't recall their being any real issues.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  17. #8217

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    AHD and Rogers Place were not COE projects.

    Game, set and match.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    The city lists Roger's Place as one of their projects (as a partner) on their website. They own the building, the land it sits on and financed the overwhelming majority of the construction of it.

    I guess we know who we can blame for the crappy drywall job and the poorly finished concrete floors though.

  19. #8219

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    But they are not managing the project or setting the specifications or design elements.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  20. #8220
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    Anymore updates on the NAIT line being fully functional ??? 2017 is not far off

  21. #8221

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    There will be minor improvements on April 01, 2021.



    That is the same day Hell freezes over and just before the glacier catches up with the train...


    LOL
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  22. #8222

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    Anymore updates on the NAIT line being fully functional ??? 2017 is not far off
    I haven't heard a whisper of a date.

    There have been a few scheduled Sundays where the line has not been operating, and I suppose they could be doing testing, but there hasn't been a whisper of that either.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Well I did witness the other night how the Metro line actually did what it was proposed to do. I rode the train from MacEwan/Rogers Place and noticed as I got on that the destination on the train was showing Health Sciences. When we got to Health Sciences the announcement was that the train was going out of service at that stop. We all got off and the train proceeded to the turn around platform. A minute later the train returned with the NAIT destination showing.

    Can anyone tell me if that will now be how the Metro line will be running from now on?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  24. #8224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    There will be minor improvements on April 01, 2021.



    That is the same day Hell freezes over and just before the glacier catches up with the train...


    LOL


    At least this thing provides us with comic relief around here.

  25. #8225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    There will be minor improvements on April 01, 2021.



    That is the same day Hell freezes over and just before the glacier catches up with the train...


    LOL


    At least this thing provides us with comic relief around here.
    Over $600 million for comic relief ? Seems about right for this cluster**k
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

  26. #8226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well I did witness the other night how the Metro line actually did what it was proposed to do. I rode the train from MacEwan/Rogers Place and noticed as I got on that the destination on the train was showing Health Sciences. When we got to Health Sciences the announcement was that the train was going out of service at that stop. We all got off and the train proceeded to the turn around platform. A minute later the train returned with the NAIT destination showing.

    Can anyone tell me if that will now be how the Metro line will be running from now on?
    That's how it works on off-peak hours.

  27. #8227

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well I did witness the other night how the Metro line actually did what it was proposed to do. I rode the train from MacEwan/Rogers Place and noticed as I got on that the destination on the train was showing Health Sciences. When we got to Health Sciences the announcement was that the train was going out of service at that stop. We all got off and the train proceeded to the turn around platform. A minute later the train returned with the NAIT destination showing.

    Can anyone tell me if that will now be how the Metro line will be running from now on?
    That's how it works on off-peak hours.
    Correct. Did just change (in September?) though. Expected to be permanent, as per the line diagrams.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  28. #8228

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    Single Tracking

    On Thursday November 3 from 10pm until end of service, Capital Line trains will run on Track 2 in both directions between University - Health Sciences/Jubilee. Metro Line trains will run on Track 2 in both directions between NAIT - Bay/Enterprise Square.
    https://www.edmonton.ca/edmonton-tra...ystem-ets.aspx



    Possible disruptions early Sunday morning from Metro Line LRT testing

    EDMONTON JOURNAL

    Metro Line LRT trains will be running frequently Sunday, but don’t expect to catch a ride more quickly — the trips are only part of after-hours testing.

    The work, from 1:30 a.m. to 4:30 a.m., involves repeatedly running trains along the Metro Line tracks between Health Sciences and NAIT stations, according to a city news release Thursday.

    Crossing gates will come down frequently during the test, activating warning bells and lights. The work won’t affect service because it’s happening when the train is normally out of service, but the city expects it will cause inconvenience.
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ne-lrt-testing
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  29. #8229

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    Testing 1, 2, 3, testing,...



    ... 1,567,673,499 testing 1,567,673,500
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  30. #8230

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    I rode the Metro Line twice in the last week:

    • Seated passenger density appeared on par with the Capital Line
    • Traffic lineups at Kingsway seemed minimal (lower than before at comparable times of day)
    • Didn't go up to NAIT, so didn't observe the big two (111 Ave and P.E. Ave.)
    • Really feels like riders are accustomed to it now (haven't seen panicked glances, running across platforms, people asking others) and no "train tourists" lately.
    • Lots of people using it to (or through?) the Hospital now - counted 45 from the train I was on today. This is up from somewhere around zero in the first few months.


    (Usual anecdotal caveats apply, obviously.)
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  31. #8231

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    Ever since I got stuck at a princess eliz./106 street red light, I purposefully use any alternate route to avoid the entire kingsway mall area. I would not be surprised if others have done that as well.

  32. #8232
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    I have

  33. #8233

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    Come on guys, how scientific is that?

    Let's make Edmonton better.

  34. #8234

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    Yup, living in the area and I just divert around. Lots of other roads are much more congested now with people all avoiding that intersection. """""""traffic calming"""""

  35. #8235

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well I did witness the other night how the Metro line actually did what it was proposed to do. I rode the train from MacEwan/Rogers Place and noticed as I got on that the destination on the train was showing Health Sciences. When we got to Health Sciences the announcement was that the train was going out of service at that stop. We all got off and the train proceeded to the turn around platform. A minute later the train returned with the NAIT destination showing.

    Can anyone tell me if that will now be how the Metro line will be running from now on?
    That's how it works on off-peak hours.
    Correct. Did just change (in September?) though. Expected to be permanent, as per the line diagrams.
    The NLRT from day 1 has always turned back at HSS Sunday all day, weekdays after 22:00 and Saturday's after 19:00. There have been no changes to that pattern since opening day. Certainly that didn't change in September.

    Trains will turn back at HSS at all times once signalling issues are resolved so they can run 5 minute Capital line trains and 10 minute Metro line trains.

  36. #8236

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    I don't know when exactly it changed, but this was posted in September:

    Let's make Edmonton better.

  37. #8237
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    Well it was definitely about time. I was wondering if they were ever going to use that tail track that was built south of Health Sciences station.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  38. #8238

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    In other news, "Tyrone" has been replaced with "Brian" on the tunnel vent mural:

    Man's face on downtown Edmonton mural replaced after learning he is behind bars

    FISH GRIWKOWSKY
    Published on: November 16, 2016 | Last Updated: November 16, 2016 1:24 PM MST


    A mural celebrating Boyle Street community and diversity adjacent to Rogers Place ended up including a painting of a violent gang member — known as Tyrone — who is currently behind bars.

    It has since been replaced with a portrait of someone else.

    “The fact there were local victims went against what we wanted to do,” said artist Lacey Jane. “Our purpose for this mural was to do a positive reconciliation for the people of Boyle Street and the inner city in the face of this gargantuan arena being built, making some of these wonderful community members feeling displaced.”
    http://edmontonjournal.com/entertain...is-behind-bars

    I recognise that it does bring real issues into the spotlight, but I think I support the erasure.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  39. #8239

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    By the by, I kept meaning to mention that I followed Hilman's lead and tried the Metro Line to and from Rogers Place for the WHL/Russia game, and it was a breeze. Less lineups at the North Ticket Gate, less walking. I think I'd do it again, although obviously the capacity constraints won't let it work for everyone.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  40. #8240

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    So I rode the line again today, to NAIT, back from K/RAH:

    • The amount of time the crossing arms are down is really down dramatically. Maybe just a little longer than a normal red light elsewhere? It was again off-peak hours, but the traffic it backed up on Princess Lizzie and 111 Avenue alike was completely cleared well before the next arm came down. Rush hour of course would be different, but I think the way it's working now is what I'd call "reasonable."
    • You're still nuts if you access Kingsway Mall from K/RAH station. NAIT Station is the way to go. Only have to wait for one light as a pedestrian.
    • Tons of people transferring between bus and LRT at K/RAH now. Feels something like triple what it was when it opened. This is completely unscientific.
    • Didn't see who was using it to the hospital, wasn't at that end of the platform.
    • Using it to where it goes is a perfectly acceptable experience now, the speed is "okay", the comfort is superlative. There is always a train to sit in at NAIT - no waiting outside needed. Good warm shelters at the other two stations.
    • Metro Line trains seem to always wait for the Southbound Century Park train now (edit -- at Churchill Station), allowing excellent transfers from the NE.


    Of course would still be nice to increase the speed, although the biggest concern is the frequency (and thus capacity, especially at rush hour), and I suspect the two eventually arrive together, but the line is a net positive now, and that's undebateable as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by JayBee; 12-12-2016 at 11:25 PM.
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    Sounds pretty accurate to me.

    The time the arms are down could probably be cut a bit more once everything is up and running as it should be, but it is much improved over what it was. That's just a wild guess but maybe 5-10 seconds could be cut.

  42. #8242

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    ^ was thinking the same thing, but what do I know? It's not in aggravating territory anymore though.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    ^Absolutely. I wonder if the city being broke will change its mind about redoing that crossing. I think they should force Kingsway to commit to densifying their property in exchange for the new raised crossing and connected station etc. Great opportunity. Pay it off with new taxes created from a dense property with a decent mall, a few residential towers with retail on the ground floors and perhaps a couple parkade for displaced parking lots.

  44. #8244

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    ^ I'd support that completely, although I might say more than "a few" residential towers. I think something like eight towers should fit comfortably, and with practically no shading concern, on the "Sears Lot".
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    ^^^^Things have definitely improved, but there are still some ridiculous sequences happening. Some I have seen recently:

    At 107 Av, the lights turn red in all directions long enough for me to walk kitty-corner across the intersection before the gates even activate. More than enough time for 105 St left turn phase.

    At 106 Av, the gates won't go up if the system doesn't think there will be enough time for a full light cycle before the next train arrives. This could mean 30-45 seconds of gates down and no trains, which is plenty long enough to allow at least the left turn phase (which would allow a through phase immediately after the second train clears the intersection).

    Lights are still going red in all directions for significant periods at Kingsway and 111 Av. Once I got stuck in an equally if not more ridiculous situation where 111 Av WB got a green between two trains, but 111 Av EB did not.

    The 106 St SB to 111 Av EB turn phase normally occurs at the end of the Kingsway green period rather than the beginning, so it is more likely to be cut off by the arrival of a train (which results in a needless delay for 111 Av as the turn phase then happens immediately after the gates go up).

    The southbound trains are slowing down between 108 Av and 107 Av, where they should be speeding up slightly (from 35 to 40 km/h) according to the little white signs. This does not make any sense if the excuse for reduced speeds is that the operator needs to visually confirm gate activation and be able to stop if they aren't working. The 106 Av and 107 Av crossings can be seen at least a full block away, but the 108 Av pedestrian crossing cannot.

    ETS has not used the increase in speed to cut a train from the Metro line. A train now arrives at NAIT approximately 2 minutes before the previous train leaves.

    I haven't yet been able to determine if the gates on Kingsway are now taking into account that the train stops at the station. The original sequencing had the gates fully down while southbound trains were still pulling into the 111 Av station, at least 30 seconds before they crossed Kingsway.

  46. #8246
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ I'd support that completely, although I might say more than "a few" residential towers. I think something like eight towers should fit comfortably, and with practically no shading concern, on the "Sears Lot".
    "Sears lot"? Isn't the NAIT station eventually supposed to be moved further north, making the 111 Av station the best access to the mall? That site deserves a grade-separated platform with pedestrian bridges or tunnels connecting Kingsway Mall to the RAH.

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    ^No. the plan is for an elevated station on the north side of Kingsway and another at grade just north west of current NAIT campus in Blatchford.

  48. #8248

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    Well, there are actually four options on the table, but the one I favour includes one station due North of Sears and a second on Blatchford about half-way up NAIT, and grade separated over both 106 Street and Princess Elizabeth Avenue. In another source, Kingsway Mall spokesperson Jelena Boyic (sp?) indicated Oxford would consider using such an opportunity to TODify the Sears lot.

    Nothing firm, but wow that would make a better LRT link from K/RAH to NAIT and Kingsway by double, and a better neighbourhood by 10.

    This is my preferred option:


    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Just for common reference:



    1. Unimpeded traffic flow on Princess Elizabeth
    2. Better Mall access
    3. Less need for pedestrian crossing at 111 Ave (Because they can access the mall better from "Sears Station")
    4. Better NAIT access (Shorter average walk to different NAIT buildings)
    5. 5 car trains possible (increasing capacity, even if the stupid signals never work.)
    6. Circumnavigates Jefferson Armoury
    7. Densifies surface parking lot at Kingsway


    It's what we should do.
    Last edited by JayBee; 13-12-2016 at 01:47 AM.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  49. #8249

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    Yeah, they need to move forward with that. I think Kingsway will need it to help compete with Ice District, a reinvigorated Londonderry, and a line to WEM coming in the near future.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    ^^ More stations too close together, more sharp curves causing speed restrictions. Will there even be enough room for a 5 car platform in the proposed location? The plan would definitely help drivers on Princess Elizabeth and 106 St, but it wouldn't do anything for transit users.

  51. #8251

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    That's just a concept. There will be lots of room for a 5 car station because it will be elevated, and the curves can be easily reduced by angling the station.

    That's my choice too, especially if it leads to even more elevated LRT heading north.
    There can only be one.

  52. #8252

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^^ More stations too close together, more sharp curves causing speed restrictions. Will there even be enough room for a 5 car platform in the proposed location? The plan would definitely help drivers on Princess Elizabeth and 106 St, but it wouldn't do anything for transit users.
    Two curves, in and out of the station where speeds are already minimal, yeah, an extra 10 seconds?

    Yes there's enough space for 5 cars there.

    Advantages for riders:
    • 5 cars increase capacity 67% on the Metro Line surface station, and significantly however far down the Capital Line the shrimp trains are running at that time.
    • A stop right at the mall means 3 to 5 minutes less walking distance, which more than makes up for the few seconds spent cornering)
    • Up to 230 metres less walking to the NAIT LRC (library and production lab), RTA, and brand new (and NAIT's largest building) Centre for Applied Technology.


    Plus the advantages in urban form:
    • Blatchford gets its first station
    • Supports densifying Kingsway's underused land
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    We had a brief power failure shortly around noon today. Did something happen at Clareview station?

    I like JayBee's option as well and if the lrt platform is angled then it could accommodate 5 cars. MacEwan's lrt platform is angled as well and it holds 5 cars.
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  54. #8254

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    Same thing at Churchill. An announcement stated that everything was running on the emergency power system. Not that it made any difference to the West Escalator which has been down for so long that one forgets it is there and starts to climb the stairs anyway.

  55. #8255
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    I think the Kingsway Mall station would also get rid of congestion at 106 Street/Princess Elizabeth Ave. Also, why do the LRT trains go 25 km/h down 105 Street, when visibility down the street is clear?
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  56. #8256

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Also, why do the LRT trains go 25 km/h down 105 Street, when visibility down the street is clear?
    The short answer is that the signalling doesn't work (on the entire line).

    The medium answer is that without functioning signalling, they have to go slow when they go through intersections. North of 107 Ave the speed picks up to 35 km/h because there are no more intersections until Kingsway, just before the station. Ditto between 111 and Princess Elizabeth: higher speed because there are no intersections. They claimed they might now have the software patch they need to make it work as planned, but they have to test it thoroughly. If it works as hoped, the speed will increase on the entire line, the frequency will rise on Metro Line service to 6X per hour (from the current 4X), the frequency will also rise on the Capital Line (especially through the tunnel where both lines run), and the platform readouts in every station should resume giving accurate information on coming departures. They usually tend to implement such major changes during the post secondary summer semester when there's less pressure on the system, so I'm half-watching to see if that happens next summer (i.e., not "expecting".)

    For the long answer, just read the last 10 or 20 pages of frustration. Half of the very high level administrators responsible were fired, and the other half quit.
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  57. #8257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komorosky View Post
    Same thing at Churchill. An announcement stated that everything was running on the emergency power system. Not that it made any difference to the West Escalator which has been down for so long that one forgets it is there and starts to climb the stairs anyway.
    Thanks
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  58. #8258
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Also, why do the LRT trains go 25 km/h down 105 Street, when visibility down the street is clear?
    The short answer is that the signalling doesn't work (on the entire line).

    The medium answer is that without functioning signalling, they have to go slow when they go through intersections. North of 107 Ave the speed picks up to 35 km/h because there are no more intersections until Kingsway, just before the station. Ditto between 111 and Princess Elizabeth: higher speed because there are no intersections. They claimed they might now have the software patch they need to make it work as planned, but they have to test it thoroughly. If it works as hoped, the speed will increase on the entire line, the frequency will rise on Metro Line service to 6X per hour (from the current 4X), the frequency will also rise on the Capital Line (especially through the tunnel where both lines run), and the platform readouts in every station should resume giving accurate information on coming departures. They usually tend to implement such major changes during the post secondary summer semester when there's less pressure on the system, so I'm half-watching to see if that happens next summer (i.e., not "expecting".)

    For the long answer, just read the last 10 or 20 pages of frustration. Half of the very high level administrators responsible were fired, and the other half quit.
    Except that there is a pedestrian crossing at 108 Av, and as The_Cat pointed out, visibility is clear down 105 St. The standard, non-emergency braking rate of the SD160 is 1.3 m/s^2, which allows a stop from 35 km/h in 38 m (1/4 block in the N-S direction), and from 40 km/h in 48 m (1/3 block). When the operator can see the gates from 2/3 of a block away in the 35 km/h zones and a full block away in the 40 km/h zones, the "signals might not work" excuse for the slow speeds doesn't really explain anything.

  59. #8259

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    ^ erring on the side of caution, I guess. I'm just summarising what we've been told, not actually explaining it.
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    So for the benefit of new C2E posters just following this thread and those not up to speed like myself, when does the decision of what option the city should go for goes to council?
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    I wonder if the walk lights at certain intersections could be synchronized with the LRT. If the LRT goes at 35 km/h (about 9 m/s), a 20 second don't walk light, 5 seconds for the light to turn red, plus 20 seconds for the gate to go down would mean 45 seconds needed, or about 400 m for the LRT to trigger the light. If the LRT is going 50 km/hr, it's about 600 m.
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    I noticed the station signs at Central now have next train times again, hooray! Also announcements of what train is arriving.

  63. #8263

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    Quote Originally Posted by amelanchier View Post
    I noticed the station signs at Central now have next train times again, hooray! Also announcements of what train is arriving.
    Finally! Hope it sticks this time.
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  64. #8264

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    Confirmed, the departure info is (still?) being displayed!
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    I read this before I left for work (approx 9:15 am). The signs in the concourse of the Grandin station indicated NAIT 6 / Century Park 6. But when I got to the station level, the signs for the southbound trains looked OK, but it was Clareview 15 / NAIT 17. Which was wrong. Not only in comparison with the concourse signs but in reality as the NAIT train arrived in a very few minutes.

    Don't get me wrong. I love that they're finally moving on this and hope the kinks get worked out soon. And the official announcements are going to be wonderful for those who need to know which train is in the loading area. The announcements that were being made by the train drivers were mostly indecipherable (either so loud they were crackling the speakers, or so soft they were a mumble).

  66. #8266

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    The LRT arrival signs are back ... maybe
    'The information that was being posted wasn't accurate, so we stopped displaying that information'
    CBC News Posted: Jan 13, 2017 2:51 PM MT Last Updated: Jan 13, 2017 2:51 PM MT


    Edmonton LRT digital signs were being tested Friday morning after not being operational for months. (CBC)
    Missing arrival information related to LRT signal problems



    For the first time in months, Edmonton LRT commuters were able to look up Friday morning and see exactly when the next train was coming.

    "This is not a drill ... well, kind of... the LRT arrival signs are being live tested. If all goes well, they will stay up," read a message on the digital signs.

    Arrival time information was removed last spring.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...aybe-1.3934782

    (lol about the highlighted message on the boards. Wish I'd noticed that.)
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  67. #8267

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    Edmonton's LRT message boards finally back online
    ELISE STOLTE
    Published on: January 13, 2017 | Last Updated: January 13, 2017 8:51 PM MST


    After a nine-month wait, Edmonton’s LRT riders finally have digital announcement boards back in service, and transit officials say it’s one more step toward a fully functional Metro Line.

    Signalling and reliability issues have kept the Metro Line LRT from running at full speed. The issues also mean the north leg of the Capital Line has been stuck with reduced frequency since September 2015, when the Metro Line opened.

    These three issues are all connected and the fact the message boards are functioning again is good news, said Adam Laughlin, the city’s head of infrastructure, cautioning that the message boards are still in a testing phase.
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ly-back-online
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    I was at Corona at 9:10pm this evening and there was no change. I was just musing to myself what a stupid useless sign.
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  69. #8269
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    Message boards were working at Clareview, Churchill and MacEwan when we took the train to the Devils and Flames games.

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    The Metro line reminds me of what happened to the Yamato after the Iconian probe scanned the starship. Two computer programs trying to fight over the same hardware - I just hope for a better fate in our case.

  71. #8271

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    The schedule/message boards still appear to be functioning properly throughout the entire system.

    Still always looking at my watch and timing the trains, but 100% that I've seen since 13 January.
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    Except for the middle northbound sign at the Grandin Station. The two outer signs and the one in the concourse lobby work fine. But this one is off both as regards time and which train is coming.

  73. #8273

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    ^I haven't used Grandin since the Magna Carta came to town. That seems very peculiar that just one sign would be off in the same room.

    Seems like it should be 'easy' to fix (although I didn't know how hard it would be to get even what we have now..)
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    I think so too. It might be that the signal it gets actually belongs to a sign further along the route. Not a huge inconvenience for me because I make a mental note of the times as I come off the elevator. But I do ponder on that sign trying to find a pattern. (It's the sort of thing I do for a hobby, find patterns.)

  75. #8275

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    ^ ha ha, same here, and I was thinking the same about the signal.

    Glad for what works I guess.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  76. #8276

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    I also timed the crossing arm at 111 Ave, and I got a minute and 7 seconds.
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  77. #8277
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    ^ Over a minute of delay for a 15 second train crossing, and that is after the ~30 seconds of red lights in all directions. It is absurdly inefficient.

  78. #8278

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    ^ true. Just reporting the progress from 10 minutes or whatever people were reporting before.
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  79. #8279
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    ^ I wonder if Edmonton motorists will be more careful about the trains than in Calgary once the train drivers stop obsessively watching out for them.

    I still remember the dude in a Toyota who had his front fender neatly clipped off while attempting to cross the 7th Ave C-train section.

  81. #8281
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    So, maybe we can work on the bad programming next? Get rid of the red in all directions well before the crossing gates even activate? Actually account for the fact that the train stops at the station to drop off and pick up passengers and not activate the crossings prematurely?

  82. #8282

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    I'm still far more concerned with the frequency*train_length=capacity (on both lines) than the speed, but of course we'll take it.

    Another step.
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  83. #8283
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    Mayor Iveson was just live on Facebook answering questions about the development and expansion of the LRT over the coming decades. Lots of good and informed questions asked. I'm glad to hear some numbers on the cost of elevation at key intersections and the serious tone council is setting going forward after the Metro Line debacle. He's pretty excited to announce trains will be up to full speed tomorrow.

  84. #8284
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    Its going to improve, kind of. I'm not all that excited until it happens.

    The big picture is what option is the city going to go with I hope option 4 or has that been decided yet?
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  85. #8285
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    Grade separations would be nice, but much of the congestion problem could be solved by fixing the traffic signal programming to eliminate the unnecessary delays. Just this morning I was walking south on 105 St at 107 Av when the lights went red in all directions before I could even see the train. I had almost made it to 106 Av before the train arrived at the 107 Av crossing.

  86. #8286
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    LRT traffic signalling - "oh look, there's a train 20 blocks away - I better shut down traffic in all directions"
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  87. #8287

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    For the last couple of years, people at the MacEwan station have been used to casually walking around the crossing barriers and across the tracks while train signals flash. The trains move slower than traffic, and you can see them coming from a mile away. Half the people jaywalking across the tracks don't even look anymore. Now that the trains are speeding up i am afraid someone will get hit.

  88. #8288
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    ^ This is why there needs to be truth in traffic signaling. If a train isn't about to arrive in less time than it takes to cross the tracks, the lights should not be flashing.

    The placement of the gates on the 105 St crossings is wacky too. Who decided that vehicle traffic needed a physical barrier but pedestrians didn't? Either the gates should have been places right next to the tracks, or not used at all like 7th Av in Calgary.

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    ^^ I'm worried also. It will take a while for people to reset their notion of how fast trains can travel. I'm expecting one or two miscalculations in the process.

    I remember once when I was crossing a street downtown and there was a police car in full emergency flashing mode approaching. It was several blocks away so I thought it was safe to cross (calibrating for a multiple of normal downtown traffic). I was about a quarter way across when I realized my mistake and backed out. It's an experience that at least one MacEwan person will experience especially from the train heading into the station. I'm pretty sure that the trains leaving the station will ease out watching that particular intersection.

    Anyone have any data with how well people have been behaving as the train enters the 7th Ave zone? When I've ridden the train there I rarely see pedestrians.

    Edited to add: I read a report once explaining why there are so many pedestrian fatalities on freight train lines. It's because the trains look so big and cumbersome and slow. And they're really not.

  90. #8290

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ This is why there needs to be truth in traffic signaling. If a train isn't about to arrive in less time than it takes to cross the tracks, the lights should not be flashing.

    The placement of the gates on the 105 St crossings is wacky too. Who decided that vehicle traffic needed a physical barrier but pedestrians didn't? Either the gates should have been places right next to the tracks, or not used at all like 7th Av in Calgary.
    The problem with the timing is, there is a fixed location along the track where the signal ahead will be triggered when the train passes the trigger spot.
    I forgot the exact distance, but if I assume 200m away, a train going 50km/h will pass the crossing in 14s. Whereas a train travelling 30km/h, he will reach the same crossing location in 24s. A 25km/h travel speed means 29s before the train reaches the crossing spot.

    Drivers will just have to be vigilant in the area and maybe ETS should have some proactive signage for pedestrians.

  91. #8291

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    How about personal responsibility?

    Anyone who ignores traffic signalling because they think they know better has only themselves to blame for their miscalculation. I'm sure that those who rail against the "nanny state" when they disagree with rules imposed on them for "common sense" will agree.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  92. #8292
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    Here's a rundown of the various conditions set out on different styles of crossings in the UK. They're on page 14.
    http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_...s_guidance.pdf
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    That was a rant so I pulled it.
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  94. #8294

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Anyone have any data with how well people have been behaving as the train enters the 7th Ave zone? When I've ridden the train there I rarely see pedestrians.
    Same here, mostly.

    A couple of times I saw a small crowd (6-8 people) on the North corner of 107 Ave, but that was way back when the signals were taking forever. Not recently.

    Have not experienced the pedestrian side of it.


    Might try riding today at the new speed, BTW.
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  95. #8295
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  96. #8296

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    Edmonton LRT starts running at full speed; most riders don't notice
    Lol.

    I didn't ride it today, but not too surprised nobody noticed: the ride has been pretty good lately. The bigger issues are the frequency and the traffic disruptions.

    But when asked whether they noticed anything different at the LRT stations today, most commuters had no idea.

    "Are there new signs?" said one person at*the NAIT station.

    "Is it cleaner?" said another.

    "No one was riding it?" said a rider at the Kingsway station.
    Last edited by JayBee; 19-02-2017 at 09:30 PM.
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  97. #8297
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    just a pet peeve of mine and speaking to those that take the Clareview train out of Clareview station, the driver pulls up a bit stops and then moves on. Sometimes drivers pull out a bit stop, start, stop then roll out. I've never in all my 15+ years of taking the Clareview train into downtown has the driver just eased out of the station slowly. Is there a reason for this? Anyone know?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  98. #8298

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    I think it's part of a mini-system's check they have to do when they change directions at the terminal stations: Clareview, NAIT, Century Park or Health Sciences.
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    But this is after they change drivers and had a chance to wait for about 5 minutes or more. It's probably a trifle thing on my part and the driver up front has already had fiddled around with the gears and stuff underneath the train floor. You don't dare ask the lrt operator, they think your a trouble maker and arrest you.
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    Looking at the Google Maps trip calculator, it looks like a trip from Central Station to NAIT runs around 11 minutes. However, MacEwan to the Royal Alex is about six minutes. My guess is around 8 minutes.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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