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Thread: Behaviour of Cops in Edmonton

  1. #201
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    [QUOTE=Edmonton PRT;539367]
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    One police officer that I know who is a Decon at our church is the rare type that is so honest

    SNIP

    I call ******** on this one...no Chief of Police is going to call one of the officers into his office and ask him to drop the charges...someone is blowing smoke up your ***
    Yeah, one of the Deacons who is now a Chruch Elder with more than 25 years with EPS is just making stuff up. Right...

    EPS is no different than other police forces with its share of coverups and internal problems. The amount of off duty DUI's and issues with gambling, drugs, sexual harrassment and domestic violence is partly due to the stress of being a cop. You just have to look at problems in other cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto or Montreal. Or are you trying to suggest that EPS is somehow immune to such problems?
    I am not suggesting that there are not problems, there are problems every where and in every vocation...not just the police, if I am not mistaken the church has more then it's fair share of scandals. I am only saying that the the scenario you describe about a copper being called into the chiefs office and being ordered to drop criminal charges against a member of another police force in exchange to have charges dropped against one of his people is not only unlikely it's impossible.

    Once a charge is laid then only the crown can stay it or pull it, so for the above scenario to play out it would involve the collusion of the head of the EPS, I assume someone from the RCMP and at least two crown prosecutors or maybe even the chief crown prosecutor. Not very likely going to happen, if your "friend" is so honest he would ticket his own mother then why would he not have pursued a criminal complaint against the chief and his co-conspirators.

  2. #202

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    As if charges are not dropped everyday, plea bargains, etc.

    For your information, it is not extortion if you boss asks you to do something like dropping charges is not a crime.

    Your high ideals on the way police proceedures work is not the reality of the huge give and take that happens everyday. I recently watched 3 police officers approach a drunk pan handler in a parking lot and as one spoke and distractedly him the other two emptied his pockets and searched him and took something from him without asking him or arresting him. I was sitting in my car only a few feet from them. If the police did that to you, you could say that they violated your rights. But the reality is that it is just the daily routine of police work.
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  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    Yeah, one of the Deacons who is now a Chruch Elder with more than 25 years with EPS is just making stuff up. Right...

    EPS is no different than other police forces with its share of coverups and internal problems. The amount of off duty DUI's and issues with gambling, drugs, sexual harrassment and domestic violence is partly due to the stress of being a cop. You just have to look at problems in other cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto or Montreal. Or are you trying to suggest that EPS is somehow immune to such problems?
    And church elders are no different. They all make stuff up. Actually, most of what they say is just stuff that's been made up. All sorts of people lie to progress their own agenda.

  4. #204

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    My parents recently left a church because the pastor and all the deacons were the most hypocritical two-faced liars they'd ever met. Truly awful people going about telling others how to be good, it was an embarrassment and a joke.

    I guess my point is that being a deacon or a cop doesn't prevent anyone from being an untrustworthy person.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  5. #205
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    I think that's pretty obvious. Everybody is human

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liferanger View Post
    ^ If your friend truly encountered this situation, which Im also going to suggest was highly misinterperted on your part, he would have also followed up by way of laying a criminal complaint/ charges against the same chief and supervisors for extortion under the criminal code.

    There are simply way to many layers of accountability to suggest that your scenario did occur or remotely could occur. Ie City council, police commission, Law Enforcement Review Board, and on and on and on........
    What proof would the officer have that the chief asked him to drop the charges? Such a conversation would have been by definition "off the record"; it would be the word of the chief of police versus the word of the officer. And what prosecutor would wish to alienate the chief of police by taking the case?

  7. #207

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    "Excuse me Chief, can you speak a little louder into my lapel pin?"

    What I am thankful for is that now people can catch irrefutable evidence on their cell phones and CCVT.












    The power of the police, the power of the politicians and the power of the people must remain in balance.

    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 26-08-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    As if charges are not dropped everyday, plea bargains, etc.

    For your information, it is not extortion if you boss asks you to do something like dropping charges is not a crime.

    Your high ideals on the way police proceedures work is not the reality of the huge give and take that happens everyday. I recently watched 3 police officers approach a drunk pan handler in a parking lot and as one spoke and distractedly him the other two emptied his pockets and searched him and took something from him without asking him or arresting him. I was sitting in my car only a few feet from them. If the police did that to you, you could say that they violated your rights. But the reality is that it is just the daily routine of police work.
    Yes charges are dropped and plea bargained every day....by the Crown. The scenario you described may not be extortion but would certainly be obstruction of justice. I think I have a pretty good understanding of the give and take in the policing world, and the reality of their daily routine.. not sure that you do though. If you witnessed three police officers accosting and "robbing" a street person then why would you not report it?

  9. #209

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    I think it was a pocket knife. You sure are strident that every time something is a bit off, you want people charged. Really, do you think that it is worth anyone's time and effort in a fruitless effort to report a minor incident? For what purpose and secondly it would be my word against 3 officers. Ask how much justice Robert Dziekański got where the 4 officers conspired to lie under oath?

    I have been in an incident where I made a written report to the police after my car was hit by a stolen car during a high speed police chase in 1992. In my report my description of the incident began with the fact that I saw the police car flashing lights approaching me BEFORE I saw the stolen car approaching me. I was discussing the incident in the back of a police cruiser when their supervisor sitting next to me told me twice that my eyewitness report was wrong that the pursuing police car only turned on his lights after my car was struck. He was trying to intimidate me but I am not scared to say the truth even when stuck in a police cruiser with three officers. As you know that once the police turn on their lights, it becomes an active chase where EPS become legally responsible for any incidents that follow.

    I told the supervisor, how could he know what happened when did not arrive till several minutes after the chase ended and asked him if he wanted me to lie on my report? He was not happy that I stood my ground. And no I did not make a report of this event as I still have respect of the EPS and have a more streetwise understanding of their difficult job they do than you.
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  10. #210
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  11. #211
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    Another example of how EPS supposed crackdown on bad behavior seems to loose teeth as soon as the bad behavior has consequences outside of the force. Lie about having an affair with your boss? You get fired. Engage in humiliating drunken debauchery with other officers? You get fired. Repeatedly beat restrained and compliant suspects half to death? Slap on the wrist and harassment of any good cop who suggests it isn't right.

  12. #212

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    Here is the YouTube response by the EPS.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNOrp_83RU

  13. #213

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    Must have been pretty bad for another cop to blow the whistle on him. The guy who was beaten was in handcuffs at the time. This will just end up being another foot note along the bottom of the chiefs notebook. Move along, have a nice day.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  14. #214

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    The story was on the national tonight:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...tion-1.1871353

    Sounds like a rotten egg got covered up, sad.

  15. #215

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    colour me shocked
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  16. #216

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    Don't just fire this thug Redlick, do the thing that cops like him deserve. Throw him into jail with the general population. He won't last a month.

    It shows that some of what I was saying and what I have heard from officers has a vein of truth.
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  17. #217

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    Apparently not a single other news outlet in the city thinks this story warrants coverage? Anybody seen or heard anything?

  18. #218
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    There's an article in the Journal on it.
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...863/story.html
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Apparently not a single other news outlet in the city thinks this story warrants coverage? Anybody seen or heard anything?
    Cop source to journalist: Oh, you like inside scoops? Write about this and you'll never hear from me again, I'll tell everyone I know to never speak to you, and when you're the victim of a home invasion I'll make sure to respond to the call and make a Timmy's stop on the way.

    At least that's how I imagine it would go given the culture we seem to have at EPS.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  20. #220
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    ^ you may be watching too many movies
    be offended! figure out why later...

  21. #221

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    These incidents are real and that makes them scarier than any TV show.
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  22. #222

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    Interesting editorial decisions over at The Journal. Concrete allegations of police brutality and cover-up appear on page 3 below the fold. However, this morning's front page has a story about police failing to achieve response times. One of these stories is much easier to deflect and spin. Which do you think EPS would rather have on the front page?

  23. #223

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    This lady deserves a standing ovation. She asked the right questions and we now know that despite police budget increases every year, service is getting worse. I knew it was getting worse, and now the proof is right there in plain sight.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  24. #224

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    Mr Huff is a hero! He is just confirming what many of us have know. EPS ranks are full of hateful powertripping goofs! 2/10 cops are good. 8/10 are losers!!
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  25. #225

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    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...841/story.html

    A city police officer who was stopped by military police in 2011 for impaired driving while he was off duty was handed a 50-hour suspension Monday without pay.
    A couple months ago a coworker of mine was fired for having a DUI, since they were required to drive for their job.

    Cop gets a week off.

    Love it!
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  26. #226

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    I can describe the worst of them as being a bit apathetic towards people, it can be much worse. I've met more good police here than anywhere else, a lot of them genuinely care about this city and it's people.

  27. #227
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    Fired constable pleads guilty to obstructing a peace officer
    ...
    Adam Kube was fired from the Edmonton Police Service for the incident last year. He will get a conditional discharge after serving nine months probation and performing 90 hours of community service.
    ...
    In 2011, Kube sold his motorcycle to a woman and cancelled his insurance.

    Two months later, the woman was stopped by police while riding the bike. She had no licence, no plate, no registration and no insurance.

    She called Kube, who was off-duty at the time. He showed up and introduced himself to the two officers. He presented his pink insurance card, saying that he was the previous owner of the bike.

    The card did not show that the insurance had been cancelled.
    ...
    "In my true opinion, I feel that if I were to assault someone, or to Tase someone excessively or to drive while intoxicated, I feel I'd still have a position with the Edmonton Police Service," he said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...icer-1.2596171

    An officer is fired and criminally convicted for doing something that, while stupid and definitely illegal, occurred while he was off duty and did not actually hurt anyone. Furthermore, he believes that he would have still had a job had he engaged in far worse misconduct while on duty that actually did injure someone. Even if the fired officer's perception of the situation is incorrect, it indicates that something is wrong with the culture at EPS.

  28. #228
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    What eps is saying is that deceit and lying will not be tolerated. That is a very good thing.

  29. #229

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    Wasn't an officer disciplined recently for lying about an illness in order to go on vacation? He wasn't fired.

  30. #230

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    The guy lucked out because he does not have a dad as a chief or former chief.
    Sometimes it is not always who you know either, it's who you blow.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  31. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Wilson View Post
    Once you give-up a right or a law it never comes back.
    If that was true we'd not have any rights or laws in our favour to begin with.
    I think the notion that Frank was going for was that once you give up a right, it doesn't come back without revolution, a la 1776 or 1789. Since none of us want that, we're much better off just keeping the rights we've got enshrined in the Charter

    I had a personal experience in having my Charter rights violated by the EPS. I am going through the whole official process, and can say from personal experience that this is very expensive to do...so I object to the fellow above saying that anyone who has a bad experience and doesn't do this doesn't have the right to bring it up. Forums like these are the only way that someone who doesn't have thousands to spend remedying the issue has at their disposal.

    I have spent thousands anyhow...but I feel compelled to stand for my rights on principle. I remember a lawyer telling me once that the word "principle" is a lawyer's favourite word. LOL!

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    ^ Good luck, and try not to let them gag-order you. Stories like this need to be told in their entirety.

  33. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ Good luck, and try not to let them gag-order you. Stories like this need to be told in their entirety.
    These types of scenarios generally end the same way: publicly funded program has unlimited resources paid for by tax dollars, they fight as long as possible hoping to bankrupt their lowly litigant, and when all the evidence is laid out and they know they will lose, they, again, use taxpayer dollars to settle the issue and attach a non-disclosure so nobody can talk about it. The litigants can only fight for so long before they can't afford to go any further, and I'm confident this is the point groups like EPS try to get to. Win by attrition using free money. Costs everyone a fortune, and nothing ever gets fixed.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  34. #234
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    ^ Unfortunately. All this when a prompt "sorry, we screwed up, charges have been dropped and officer XYZ has been reprimanded / fined / suspended without pay / fired" would be cheaper and more satisfying for all (except the bad cops).

  35. #235

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    I've got a file open with the police with their professional standards branch. AKA internal affairs. Its been rather interesting watching how slowly they look at the complaint and how little they want to do to investigate it. I'm shocked at how they seem to be looking for the simplest excuse to turn away the complaint or refusing to speak with people directly involved with the evidence provided.

  36. #236
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    Edmonton police officer Mike Wasylyshen promoted despite criminal record
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...cord-1.2859907

    The Edmonton Police Service recently promoted officer Mike Wasylyshen to sergeant despite a criminal record for the drunken, off-duty assault of a man on crutches and a disciplinary suspension for Tasering a passed-out native youth.
    I suspect some nepotism, seeing he's the son of an former chief.
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 04-12-2014 at 07:24 AM.
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  37. #237
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    That's just shocking. What worries me even more is that by promoting him they're essentially saying that there wasn't anyone else better for the job. If he was the best candidate, what were the others like?!
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  38. #238
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    Maybe he's turned his life around in the past 10 years, all of the incidents were quite some time ago. That being said, he should probably have been fired from the force 10 years ago, for the assault case alone.

  39. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    That's just shocking. What worries me even more is that by promoting him they're essentially saying that there wasn't anyone else better for the job. If he was the best candidate, what were the others like?!
    Gord, you hit the nail on the head. Not only shocking but scary. Brings a new definition to "Edmonton's Finest"

    Neither Wasylyshen nor his lawyer responded to interview requests.
    CBC

    Why does he need a lawyer when he was just promoted? Did CBC call Wasylyshen and then did he tell CBC, "if you want to talk with me, talk with my lawyer"?

    Const. Mike Wasylyshen used Taser on 16-year-old Randy Fryingpan 8 times in one minute. Engel said Wasylyshen’s criminal record for assault, his use of excessive force in the Fryingpan case and his wilful deception of a justice of the peace will almost certainly be raised by defense lawyers in future cases
    CBC
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 04-12-2014 at 09:38 AM.
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  40. #240
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    And the pattern continues. Do something that is dumb but doesn't hurt anyone? Get fired. Commit unprovoked drunken assaults and use excessive force repeatedly, resulting in real harm to members of the public? Get promoted.
    He may have quit drinking and improved his self-control somewhat, but I doubt his core attitudes have changed. Alcohol doesn't create the inner demon, it just exposes it. People like this have no business being cops. He definitely should have been fired years ago.

  41. #241
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    Criminal assault while off-duty. Willful deception of a justice of the peace while applying for a search warrent. Discipline for excessive use of force on a defenseless, passed out teen.

    Oh, and only disciplined when ordered to do so by the Law Enforcement Review Board.

    Hey, make him Chief.

    What a joke. Except it's not funny - that proven lying bully has a gun and the legal right to use it.

    EPS should be ashamed, except apparently EPS is so shameless it can't see what's wrong with this. . What a statement to the public.
    ... gobsmacked

  42. #242

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    Oh they know... From the same article:

    In January 2013, CBC News obtained an internal EPS professionalism report. It revealed EPS members generally had concerns about accountability.

    "The majority of the membership believe in stricter discipline and are disappointed that those who break the rules repeatedly are rarely dealt with appropriately," the report states. "They are asking for appropriate, consistent, and timely discipline."
    So they clearly know. There's just no will to change, as they're only accountable to themselves. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  43. #243

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    It must aggravate those many EPS members who follow the rules, work really hard and get passed by for promotions.
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  44. #244

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    It will be all over the National News on CBC today.

    Putting Edmonton on the map...
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  45. #245

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    To me it's like EPS rubbing it in the public's face. Were the EPS, we can do whatever we want. Let's face it, if it was put to a public vote Wasylyshen would have been fired years ago. Public input about EPS only matters when they are giving accolades.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  46. #246
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    So, what is the legal liability of the police force in a case where an officer with Wasylyshen's history gets re-instated and then starts beating up civilians again?

    If the force gets sued, their lawyers are gonna have a pretty tough time going into court and saying "Come on, the top brass couldn't possibly have known that this guy was a deranged sociopath!"

  47. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    It must aggravate those many EPS members who follow the rules, work really hard and get passed by for promotions.
    Unfortunately, that happens somewhat often. It's a large bureaucracy with occasionally vile internal politics and personal agendas especially in upper management or lack there of. Thankfully not everyone in the cushy chairs are backstabbers there are only a few sadly in prime positions who have no clue about managing anything other than playing stupid political and personal games.

  48. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    So, what is the legal liability of the police force in a case where an officer with Wasylyshen's history gets re-instated and then starts beating up civilians again?

    If the force gets sued, their lawyers are gonna have a pretty tough time going into court and saying "Come on, the top brass couldn't possibly have known that this guy was a deranged sociopath!"
    If he starts tasering and beating up more people they will promote him to Chief of Police in a couple more years.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  49. #249

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    It took 10 years to discipline him for tasering the teenager. What is wrong in the department? It is absolutely ridiculous that this issue ever got to this stage. And on TV the Chief is defending their decision because he has been a model cop for the past 10 years. Stopped drinking, beating up people, uttering death threats, assaulting people in handcuffs etc.

    Funny, two years ago during the disciplinary hearings., it was noted that he had no remorse and felt he did nothing wrong.
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  50. #250
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    Maybe with EPS holding their hand out for another $7.5M citing the need for 84 more officers, they're scraping the barrel for whatever they can get.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  51. #251

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    This decision was not supported by the rank & file members of the EPS, the decision came from the Chief and he must be held accountable. This is not only poor judgement but a serious moral issue and a public trust issue when police forces all over are being scrutinized and publicly denounced for their self serving and unchecked actions. And these guys want a new helicopter? Do you give toys to bad boys? I think not. Bad behavior by the EPS brass must not be rewarded.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...pter-1.2857697

    We need strong public oversight.

    police public
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 05-12-2014 at 07:10 AM.
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  52. #252

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Maybe with EPS holding their hand out for another $7.5M citing the need for 84 more officers, they're scraping the barrel for whatever they can get.
    Council needs to start tying budgets to accountability metrics. I'm at a loss at what those would be, because it seems accountability is determined from inside, and they just give themselves top marks on the report card.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  53. #253

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    This decision was not supported by the rank & file members of the EPS, the decision came from the Chief and he must be held accountable. This is not only poor judgement but a serious moral issue and a public trust issue.
    Indeed upper management did not listen to their employees and moral is a problem, thankfully not in all units; however, some are toxic and moral does come from the top-down; leadership.

  54. #254

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    **** Psycho Mike Wasylyshen times ten. This promotion is a slap in the face to Edmontonians everywhere.

    It says to the public 'we realize we have unstable psychos on our force - and for that they should be rewarded' Disgusting. What a shame.
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  55. #255

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    From the 'never thought it would happen to me' department. This occurred last night, as me and my friend were trying to get shots of the Crashed Ice.

    My friend is the resident manager of a certain apartment building downtown. For over 5 years we have been going to the roof to have a few beers, enjoy the weather and take in the sights. That's what we were doing last night at about 6:30pm.

    Suddenly, four EPS members crash onto the roof screaming 'hands up' and the whole deal. Cuff both of us. Don't know about my friend, as he was on the other side of the roof at the time but I was told I was under arrest for 'mischief'. Read my rights and everything. Feeling rather confused and disoriented I stammered out 'for what?' or similar. Was told we were throwing 'stuff' off the roof.

    We most certainly NEVER throw things off the roof. We're not idiots.

    After a few more prompts the EPS member tells me a police officer on the ground saw 'two people throwing stuff of the roof', and as we were the only two people up there at the time....

    They then place us on the ground, grab our IDs to run, and proceed to dump all our beer (open in public, what? Am pretty sure the roof is private property). Once they figured out that my friend is the building manager and we probably ARE allowed to be up there the entire story changes, no more mention of mischief charges or throwing stuff off the roof. Now we can't be up there because 'terrorists'. Gave us the whole 'people down there don't feel safe' ********. More news to me, as everyone who has ever noticed us up there generally gives a friendly wave.

    At this point I'm changing from being scared to ****** off at their obvious ruse by 'arresting' me. I said something along the lines of 'what about the guy who saw me throwing stuff', and at this point the guy gets real pissy with me, calls me a 'child', and bans me from the building for 5 years. Not sure they even have the authority to do so, but whatever. Then they let us go and tell us not to go on the roof anymore.

    You know, if they had just said up front we don't want people on the roof during this event we'd have gone down, no problem, but you come up there (private property remember!) like a nazi, cuff us, make up ******** stories about crimes we didn't do, dump all our beers and generally be pricks I'm not going to respect you too much.

    Way overkill EPS, way overkill. Soured me on the entire thing, and I just went home for the rest of the night.

    Heard from my friend today. The cops were up there on the roof for another 2 hours! Guess they liked the view.

    Still shaking mad about this today.
    Support the mob or mysteriously disappear...

  56. #256

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    If anyone from the City monitors this forum, this needs to be dealt with. I know the two individuals that were harassed in this incident, and have been up on the rooftop in question and can verify everything bulliver says about their innocent motives for being on that roof. They both have been tremendous boosters of this city. These thugs with badges have done a great disservice to them and our city. I'm sure that attempts to file a complaint by these individuals will only bring more grief to them, but something needs to be done to send a clear message to these 'officers' that behaviour like this is unacceptable.

    Disgusting.

  57. #257

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    And several more of our friends were on the way down at the time. My freaking MOM has been on that roof.

    Ridiculous, cartoonish response by EPS. So disappointed and frustrated.
    Support the mob or mysteriously disappear...

  58. #258

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    Anyone who has concerns about the policies, service or the actions of a police officer may make a complaint, however, it is unlawful to make a false report to police. To report your concern, contact Professional Standards Branch.

    You may also submit your concern in writing to the Chief of Police, after which it will be reviewed by the intake manager in Professional Standards Branch and assigned to an intake evaluator. Your concern may be resolved through the intervention of the officers’ supervisor or a Professional Standards Branch investigator.
    http://www.edmontonpolice.ca/ContactEPS/Concerns.aspx

  59. #259

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    Why don't you file a complaint with the professional standards branch aka internal affairs? I've been through a 2 1/2 yr long battle in regards to one... its pretty straight forward to file one.

    What I've learned in doing so is that you will lose more respect for the police as they try and cover things up and lie.

    For example my complaint has had my interview leaked to the officers i complained on(NO REASON FOR THIS), i have a recording of the internal affairs investigator trying to get witnesses to lie, i have the investigators choosing not to interview witnesses who were vital to the complaint and i even have the investigating PSB officer telling witnesses that they can make me go away.

    In the end my complaint was eventually dismissed after 3 different appeals. They ignored the tampering of witnesses, the flagrant biased investigation and many other concerns that were brought up during the process.

    Sorry to hear about the trouble you had but if it was me i would file a complaint with the PSB and hold them accountable. I would be happy to discuss with you the process or possible issues you will face.
    Last edited by gwill211; 15-03-2015 at 02:45 PM.

  60. #260
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    Bully - sickening

    I generally find EPS good to deal with, but that is ridiculous, file a complaint on that one for sure.
    www.decl.org

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  61. #261

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    Or is it better to go to the media?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  62. #262
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    And the Harper government wants to give more power to the police? Mmmkay....
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  63. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Or is it better to go to the media?
    What would the headline be? Police harrass innocent people? The papers know that headline won't sell their papers.. nor can they verify a he said she said story... so what good would it do to write about it?

    Its definitely something a person needs to formally complain about to the police.

    Even with that it will most likely get ignored but at least it would be noted on the officers record in case they continue their power trips with others who also lodge a complaint.

  64. #264

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    The problem is that I'm not interested in making myself, or this roof a target for police scrutiny. As I say, we've been going up there for over 5 years with no issues, we would like to continue to do so without having to deal with EPS every time.
    Support the mob or mysteriously disappear...

  65. #265

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    ^And that is why police get away with things that they shouldn't 99% of the time.

  66. #266

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    Intimidation. It's wrong, and it works.

  67. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Intimidation. It's wrong, and it works.
    Been there, done that.

    Three cops sit in the car with you and the Sergeant goes over your written statement and tells you that you have your account of the events wrong.

    You remind him that he showed up 10 minutes after it happened.
    He presses his version of the story again.

    You respond, "Do you want me to lie on my statement?"

    He goes silent.
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  68. #268

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    What do you expect from a bunch of EPS Riod Pigs.

  69. #269
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    At a minimum, this sort of incident should result in lengthy suspensions (a month or more) without pay for the officers involved and possibly their supervisors as well. Unfortunately, it is more likely that nobody will face any sort of discipline at all.
    If there are any police officers reading this, your entire organization has been degraded by this unacceptable behavior, are you going to do something about it or are you going to watch our respect for the EPS diminish further?

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    I'd be curious to hear what the owner fo the building thinks about people going on the roof.

    If the building manager has permission to go on the roof, does that extend to friends & family ? Do they have protocols in place ?

    I know that I do not grant access to anyone to get on the roof unless they have filled out a roof access waiver, and I certainly wouldn't let any of my staff on the roof, after dark, for any other reason than to be performing emergency work. There's a fairly high degree of liability there.

    I'd also be curious how the police got to the roof ? Gernally speaking, the police don't have access to those types of areas unless they have been provided access by the building owners or managers

    Not saying what the cops did wasn't heavy handed.. but in my case, I'd be quite upset to hear if people were using my restricted access areas as viewing galleries.
    Parkdale

  71. #271

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    I think its quite the cop out to worry more about the roof then standing up for whats right. Ones minor inconvenience to prevent greater injustices out there is a minor price to pay.

    In the least you correct the police's behavior so they aren't pulling the same stunts.

  72. #272
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    ^ well the building owner has the right to be quite concerned about unauthorized access to the roof. In this case (and of course not knowing if the building owner did in fact authorize access) "what's right" may be that the resident manager was overstepping his bounds by allowing people who do not work for the company and who have no business being on the roof, so some sort of action may be warranted

    All in all the police reaction seems silly, but two wrongs don't make a right
    Parkdale

  73. #273
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    Peter Royal is a constant thorn in the EPS hide - might want to get a free legal consult on what, if anything, you can do now:

    200, 9636 - 102A Ave, or by phone: 780-432-0919.
    ... gobsmacked

  74. #274

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    @240glt - my last comment was more directed at bulliver for being more concerned about a roof and being on the police radar. I understand your comments about the roof but I see that as a non issue when the police go overboard and Harrass people who weren't doing anything wrong. It's rather weird you see the roof as the issue instead of the police.

    McBoo- the really good lawyers like peter royal or Tom engel willing to take on any police issues won't have a free consult.

  75. #275
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    I may have been assuming that all practicing lawyers were part of the Law Society's lawyer referral program, but fair 'nuff, may not be for all.

    Still 1/2 hour free consult might still be worth it: http://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/membership/referral.aspx
    ... gobsmacked

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    ^ well the building owner has the right to be quite concerned about unauthorized access to the roof. In this case (and of course not knowing if the building owner did in fact authorize access) "what's right" may be that the resident manager was overstepping his bounds by allowing people who do not work for the company and who have no business being on the roof, so some sort of action may be warranted

    All in all the police reaction seems silly, but two wrongs don't make a right
    The police reaction was not "silly", it was a totally uncalled for bullying power trip. The police could have calmly asked questions and if the rooftop spectators were cooperative and did not appear to be trespassing the police should have left them alone. Police should always consider finding that nothing is wrong and their suspicions were unfounded to be the ideal outcome of any situation.

    If the building owner has a problem with the manager letting people onto the roof, that is a private matter that does not require police involvement. The owner is free to reprimand the manager as appropriate.

  77. #277

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    Not really surprised I'm being blamed for this.

    Building manager most certainly is allowed there. I was extended invitation from building manager who has access, therefore I had access. Building owner was not present nor involved in this exchange. Building owner most certainly did not initiate this exchange.

    We were not slapped on the wrist for trespassing, we were lied to and put through the motions of a mischief arrest until overzealous EPS members realized we were allowed to be there, at which point they kicked us out under guise of 'terrorism' and proceded to commandeer the property for their own purposes for the next several hours. Am honestly uncertain under which conditions this might even be close to acceptable behavior from EPS.

    They strait up booted us from private property for which we had proper access, then used it for themselves.
    Support the mob or mysteriously disappear...

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    ^ well the building owner has the right to be quite concerned about unauthorized access to the roof. In this case (and of course not knowing if the building owner did in fact authorize access) "what's right" may be that the resident manager was overstepping his bounds by allowing people who do not work for the company and who have no business being on the roof, so some sort of action may be warranted

    All in all the police reaction seems silly, but two wrongs don't make a right
    The police reaction was not "silly", it was a totally uncalled for bullying power trip. The police could have calmly asked questions and if the rooftop spectators were cooperative and did not appear to be trespassing the police should have left them alone. Police should always consider finding that nothing is wrong and their suspicions were unfounded to be the ideal outcome of any situation.

    If the building owner has a problem with the manager letting people onto the roof, that is a private matter that does not require police involvement. The owner is free to reprimand the manager as appropriate.
    If EPS is an agent of the property then it's well with their right to do what they did. Heavy handed maybe.

    As Bulliver indicated the owner apparently did not give permission for him to be there. Giving permission to a building manager to be on the roof does not constitute permission to bring all your friends up. From a building owner's perspective, they'd probably not want people who are not authorized to be on the roof

    We're also only hearing one side of the story here...
    Parkdale

  79. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulliver View Post
    Not really surprised I'm being blamed for this.

    Anyone with half a brain wouldn't place blame on you. It was total BS that happened. Of course anyone who blames you would think differently if they were the ones placed in handcuffs for doing nothing wrong..... You really should file a complaint.

  80. #280

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    Question. Were both EPS under 30?

    Some older EPS officers state that new recruits lack judgement skills especially the video game generation. They also don't listen to the senior officers who try to train them. Maybe a bias that is age old but may have some truth.


    Fun fact
    Last week I watched two episodes of the new Hawaii 5-0. Both times I shut it off when the criminals were using machine guns with an endless supply of bullets. I remember watching the old shows and many shows they did not even fire a round.
    We have these these shows today as examples of how policemen work?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 16-03-2015 at 04:46 PM.
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  81. #281

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    Correction. Four EPS.

  82. #282

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    Manager has been having photographer friends up on the roof for over 5 YEARS. He would not do this without getting prior approval from the owner.

  83. #283

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    Approval from owner to be on the roof has NOTHING to do with EPS response. NOTHING. UNRELATED. COMPLETE STOP.

    As Bulliver indicated the owner apparently did not give permission for him to be there.
    I most certainly did not, don't put words in my mouth. 'permission' to be up there was never questioned nor discussed outside of the EPS member's proclamation that we must go because we were supposedly 'throwing stuff' and then scaring the poor citizens because 'terrorists'.
    Support the mob or mysteriously disappear...

  84. #284

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    ^ I find it quite disheartening that after hearing only one, repeat, one side of this story, everyone wants to jump on this bashing bandwagon!

    While the "one" version certainly has elements that don't sound desirable, I would caution you all on putting so much negative emphasis on the EPS without the balanced picture.

    Notwithstanding the legitimacy or not of the claim made on here, there are so many things we don't know, such as the true permitted status of those on the roof, whether there were projectiles thrown off the roof by this group or perhaps others prior to this groups' attendance, whether or not the said projectiles injured someone below, the conduct of this group ( verbal and non verbal) toward the responding officers ( again, very much one sided).

    The only accurate statement of this account that we, forumers, can truly agree with is Bulliver feels completely put off, angry and disappointed by how he/she feel was treated.

    With that said, I in no way want to diminish your perceived encounter but I think everyone else needs a check and balance as well.

    If you feel truly wronged, another poster has placed the link to Professional Standards Branch and how to file a complaint. Contrary to other statements on this forum, the EPS vigourously investigates these matters and more officers face disciplinary actions within the EPS than most major agencies combined across canada.

    If you feel like taking a less "official" approach, I would suggest requesting to speak with the Divisional Inspector or Superintendent of the Division and I can almost guarantee that your matter will be promptly dealt with and the members involved will be identified and dealt with within hours. This would be the more informal process but swifter.

  85. #285

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    I personally know these people, have been on the roof in question and have ALREADY confirmed that they are above reproach.

    Re-read the thread if it didn't sink in the first time.

  86. #286
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    If I were Bulliver I would not take any of the steps that Liferanger suggests as I would doubt that it would do anything positive. I feel it would target me as a trouble maker with two people that have police powers and a grudge.

  87. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liferanger View Post

    If you feel truly wronged, another poster has placed the link to Professional Standards Branch and how to file a complaint. Contrary to other statements on this forum, the EPS vigourously investigates these matters and more officers face disciplinary actions within the EPS than most major agencies combined across canada.
    I've got 200 pages of documents that would prove your statement wrong. Included are numerous recordings that i was provided that have the PSB investigators on my complaint mentioning they would make me go away. I have the investigators asking witnesses to lie so they could close my complaint. I have the investigators ignoring witnesses to talk to yet this was deemed acceptable by the police.

    The 2 officers i made a complaint against didn't even have matching versions of events. Their 2 stories were completely different. The one officer also claimed under oath information that was proven to be incorrect by one of the PSB witnesses yet this didn't matter.

    In any investigation they add strict time lines that the complainant and all those involved must follow or you run the risk of your complaint being thrown out or strict fines/penalties being added. During my investigation the Chief of Police ignored these timelines and submitted information well after these time lines. Guess what happened? Nothing.

    My whole complaint process was tainted.. wreaked of a cover up and showed a very real bias towards making the complaint go away. In the end i was never at risk of going to jail like bulliver but i was wronged and did what was right. I Stood up to the police for the lies and over the years it took my complaint to be heard uncovered more and more shady tactics\issues from the police. Your comments that they vigorously handle complaints is laughable.

    To all those saying its not worth your time to stand up for whats right, shame on you. Go back and cower in your basement. Its pathetic to see so many people mentioning not to stand up for yourself while worrying making a complaint will cause the police to target you. What are you afraid of if your not a criminal?? How would the police target you?

    From my own personal experience which went on forever i wasn't once targeted by the police with my complaint. And if i was i was ready for anything that may have happened because i was standing up for what was right.
    Last edited by gwill211; 17-03-2015 at 04:04 PM.

  88. #288

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liferanger View Post
    ^ I find it quite disheartening that after hearing only one, repeat, one side of this story, everyone wants to jump on this bashing bandwagon!

    While the "one" version certainly has elements that don't sound desirable, I would caution you all on putting so much negative emphasis on the EPS without the balanced picture.

    Notwithstanding the legitimacy or not of the claim made on here, there are so many things we don't know, such as the true permitted status of those on the roof, whether there were projectiles thrown off the roof by this group or perhaps others prior to this groups' attendance, whether or not the said projectiles injured someone below, the conduct of this group ( verbal and non verbal) toward the responding officers ( again, very much one sided).

    The only accurate statement of this account that we, forumers, can truly agree with is Bulliver feels completely put off, angry and disappointed by how he/she feel was treated.

    With that said, I in no way want to diminish your perceived encounter but I think everyone else needs a check and balance as well.

    If you feel truly wronged, another poster has placed the link to Professional Standards Branch and how to file a complaint. Contrary to other statements on this forum, the EPS vigourously investigates these matters and more officers face disciplinary actions within the EPS than most major agencies combined across canada.

    If you feel like taking a less "official" approach, I would suggest requesting to speak with the Divisional Inspector or Superintendent of the Division and I can almost guarantee that your matter will be promptly dealt with and the members involved will be identified and dealt with within hours. This would be the more informal process but swifter.
    Highlighted by me.

    I doubt that this surprises anyone. Just goes to show that the disciplinary action is not carried out or it does not work. Most major agencies combined. No wonder a lot of Edmontonians have no/little faith in the force. An organization that rewards someone for tasering someone 6 times while they are past out. If an officer like that got promoted what were the others like that got passed over. Then expect the public to be O.K. with it. What a laughing stock. Sure we will call them if there is trouble but what choice do we have?.
    Last edited by Gemini; 17-03-2015 at 08:14 PM.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  89. #289
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    ^ There are plenty of stories of officers being harshly disciplined for minor offenses that did not harm anyone outside of EPS. The problem is that once the complaint comes from anyone outside of the force the process turns from a witchhunt into a coverup and ends with a slap on the wrist, or no punishment at all.

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    gwill, you've got 200 pages of documentation and the result was what? Your experience went on forever. It is nice to see that they didn't target you but how was not getting any results worth your time? If bulliver doesn't feel like pursuing this to a dead end I don't blame him.

  91. #291

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    The result was seeing first hand how tainted the investigations can become. From the chief of police to the PSB investigators to the appeal boards I dealt with on numerous occasions. Even the lawyer I sat with was floored by a lot of what happened in my case.

    I didn't get the results I wanted but the out come wasn't known when I started the process so it's hard to say I wasted my time when I was standing up for what's right. Also the time lines for my complaint dragged on for way to long. I'm pretty sure most aren't successful with multiple appeals or have it take an extra 4-5 months because the police didn't follow their own dead lines.

    I think the officers involved with my complaint will be a bit more careful going forward which is nothing but positive for those who deal with them in the future.

  92. #292
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    Fair enough. I guess my expectations of seeing positive results from pursuing something like this are low.

  93. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    The result was seeing first hand how tainted the investigations can become. From the chief of police to the PSB investigators to the appeal boards I dealt with on numerous occasions. Even the lawyer I sat with was floored by a lot of what happened in my case.

    I didn't get the results I wanted but the out come wasn't known when I started the process so it's hard to say I wasted my time when I was standing up for what's right.
    So, did you appeal to the LERB ( law enforcement review board)? From what you've written on here, you seem significantly disappointed with the outcome of your initial complaint investigation down by the EPS. So naturally, your recourse would have been to file an appeal to the LERB, which is a complete outside judicial entity from the police service, has no former police officers assigned to it and can't possibly be perceived as tainted. Your appeal would have been free, an appeal is available to absolutely everyone.

  94. #294

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liferanger View Post
    So naturally, your recourse would have been to file an appeal to the LERB, which is a complete outside judicial entity from the police service, has no former police officers assigned to it and can't possibly be perceived as tainted. Your appeal would have been free, an appeal is available to absolutely everyone.
    It seems like your familiar with the process involved but you are completely wrong on the statements your making. The Proffessional Standards Branch Investigator(PSB) that investigated my complaint was a long standing police officer. My first meeting with him he explained in detail how his investigation will be unbiased and that he will only report the facts and take no sides. Yet during a recording i have with one of his witnesses he actively asked her to lie. He also stressed that without her help the officers jobs would be on the line. He's also the same person who told them he could make me go away and that there would be no further issues.

    So much for not taking sides, being unbiased or only reporting the facts.

    The PSB also provided my video statement to the officers i complained about. So this outside, impartial entity you speak of actively worked with the officers i complained about.

    What needs to happen in an investigation for you to think its been tainted or grossly inadequate? Whatever your answer is it most likely happened in my investigation.

    The only thing that frustrated me with my complaint is that they ignored my witness who could verify everything for them. Instead they talked with a lady who they asked to lie for them. This lady no longer works for the company and when i found this out i went and talked to the company to discuss the matter. They provided significantly different information then what was provided to the PSB but my complaint was over.

    Lots of shadiness thats hard to deny. This should have been an open an closed case for the investigator. I handed everything to them on a silver platter. Instead it dragged on forever...

  95. #295

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    ^It appears that the PSB and LERB are two different things. You may want to actually appeal to the LERB.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  96. #296

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    Ah yes i totally misread that. I did appeal with the LERB and although you say their decisions can not be tainted i believe otherwise.

    Take my issue with the PSB investigators ignoring a vital witness. I provided names, times and dates that i spoke with the witness. All they had to do was call them and confirm some information but the police refused. They called and tracked down other people that they asked to lie to provide information they wanted. The LERB found this was acceptable investigatory practices as its not feasible for the police to track down and talk to everyone. Wrap your head around this for a second... they can pick up the phone to call one person but it costs way too much money to talk to the actual witness who worked at the same company. I don't see how the LERB think this is acceptable.

    The LERB review board also found it acceptable for the chief of police to ignore legislated timelines. None of their strict fines or any of their repercussions happened when this happened. They acted like it was no big deal.

    I don't fault the LERB at all as the big wig lawyers representing the chief of police and the police officers have used all sorts of arguments to get complaints thrown out. I bet the LERB hearings all sound the same to them as the lawyers use the same arguments over and over again.

  97. #297

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    Mental health training credited for drop in use of force by Edmonton police.

    Not sure if this means the cops have better mental health or if force is not used as much on people with mental health issues or if the cops are whaling less on everybody. Anyway, apparently there has been a slight attitude adjustment.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...416/story.html
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  98. #298

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    Over 30 cops(that they know of) have used steroids in the last few years in edmonton. 2 long time standing police members are arrested for trafficking.

    Maybe the police on the top of the roof with bulliver were having issues with roid rage. It should be interesting to see how far the steroid use goes within the city police.

    What are the odds the police take out their Rat t-shirts again?

  99. #299

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    My impression of Edmonton Police:

    Where you see them most: Tim Hortons

    Where you don't see them very often: Where crimes take place

    What they are good at: Giving away speeding tickets while they speed and run red lights like there is no tomorrow

    What they are not so good at: Pursue REAL criminals who do/did harm to others

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    You spend a lot of times at crime scenes?

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