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Thread: Downtown Retail | Discussion

  1. #101
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    afairlady,

    You touch on a lot of truth here...Edmonton can be and is often percieved as a boring place to live. I get the feeling from your post, however, that you feel as though Edmonton should/will forever remain a "dull" city. That our town shouldn't pursue the vitality and energy that you project upon other cities.

    It is here that I can't help but disagree: all cities, regardless of cultural, economic, or geographical makeup are organic in their very nature. They grow, adapt, and adjust. To be static, on the other hand, is to die. Perhas Edmonton has strayed far to close to the latter for comfort.

    Yes, what Edmonton is at this very moment will be reflected in its future. As such, it is crucially important to be proactive in shaping what this city is to become...Fortunately, we have a lot to work with (yes, we even have "accessible nature"!). In order to create a sense of energy that may be felt by all who come Edmonton, it is necessary to develope a consistant urban identity. An identity that is reflected in store fronts, café's, and restaurants: the front line in any city's battle against negative perceptions. It's not about targeting yuppy markets, it's about creating a city that people want to live in, and the places we shop are a large part of this.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Here, lets watch me get my head ripped off...

    I think you've got it all wrong, cause yer barking up the wrong city. I dont think thats who we are...

    Does anyone agree at all?...

    I've been to many of the bars in Edmonton, and I can't say as those are the shining examples of people I want to get to know. No yes?
    hello afairlady,

    not sure that this belongs in the buildings and architecture forum but you're welcome to my two cents worth without my trying to rip your head off. more than that, i tend to agree with you to some degree about there being more to life than shopping and bars. we already have a pretty good start on that however. I won't go into the festivals - that can be overdone a bit and they're not a "regular option" anyway but there are already a few other things to do in and around downtown...

    the art gallery
    the citadel
    the winspear
    the jubilee
    the royal alberta museum
    the gallery walk
    the symphony
    the opera
    sir winston churchill square
    louise mckinney park
    chinatown

    if it's energy and being engaged and meeting people and contributing, one of the things that edmonton has/does better than anywhere else i've spent time is volunteering. pick something, anything, the glenrose, the stollery, alberta diabetes foundation, the salvation army, the rotary club or toastmasters, the terra association or big brothers/big sisters, the autism society, habitat for humanity... i could go on but perhaps you're getting my point.

    these groups - and dozens like them - attract a level of support and energy you won't see in most of your comparable city examples and they are more "open" to your participation than you will find anywhere else i've been. you will get back much more than you give. there are times where we sometimes think if it weren't for these kinds of commitments, we wouldn't have a social life at all.

    they fill the convention centre, and hotel ballrooms and the italian cultural centre and numerous other venues both downtown and elsewhere week after week after week... try it - you'll like it and you'll meet people doing it.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Here, lets watch me get my head ripped off...

    I think you've got it all wrong, cause yer barking up the wrong city. I dont think thats who we are...

    Does anyone agree at all?...

    I've been to many of the bars in Edmonton, and I can't say as those are the shining examples of people I want to get to know. No yes?
    hello afairlady,

    not sure that this belongs in the buildings and architecture forum but you're welcome to my two cents worth without my trying to rip your head off. more than that, i tend to agree with you to some degree about there being more to life than shopping and bars. we already have a pretty good start on that however. I won't go into the festivals - that can be overdone a bit and they're not a "regular option" anyway but there are already a few other things to do in and around downtown...

    the art gallery
    the citadel
    the winspear
    the jubilee
    the royal alberta museum
    the gallery walk
    the symphony
    the opera
    sir winston churchill square
    louise mckinney park
    chinatown

    if it's energy and being engaged and meeting people and contributing, one of the things that edmonton has/does better than anywhere else i've spent time is volunteering. pick something, anything, the glenrose, the stollery, alberta diabetes foundation, the salvation army, the rotary club or toastmasters, the terra association or big brothers/big sisters, the autism society, habitat for humanity... i could go on but perhaps you're getting my point.

    these groups - and dozens like them - attract a level of support and energy you won't see in most of your comparable city examples and they are more "open" to your participation than you will find anywhere else i've been. you will get back much more than you give. there are times where we sometimes think if it weren't for these kinds of commitments, we wouldn't have a social life at all.

    they fill the convention centre, and hotel ballrooms and the italian cultural centre and numerous other venues both downtown and elsewhere week after week after week... try it - you'll like it and you'll meet people doing it.
    Being an old married lady I don’t get out to bars too much but I do get out and about a fair bit, to the festivals, to professional organizations that I am a member and volunteer of, to alumni associations I belong to as these are the type of people I want to get to know.

    I agree completely heartily with Ken in saying that VOLUNTEERING is the best way to get to know and meet those “shining examples” of the best of Edmonton.

    I moved to Edmonton from a very different country and culture when I was a young adult. I was never into the bar scene so at first I was stymied how I was going to get to know people and experience Edmonton at its best.

    Yeah, I met people in post-secondary (some who are friends to this day!) and I took courses over and above my career requirements but the people I have met and interacted with in my volunteer pursuits are the best people in the world.

    I volunteered overseas for schools as a Teachers’ Assistant and the Royal Society for the Prevention against Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA) for Rotary and the UN Club... and every one of those activities was a wonderful experience but the people I connect with everyday in Edmonton are in a stratosphere far above anything I have ever experienced anywhere else.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Here, lets watch me get my head ripped off. I disagree with all of this retail with glass fronts will bring em in droves, Jasper west rejuv will bring em, bla bla downtown revitalize (which is apparently creatively limited to retail and bars) wow that will really make Edmonton stand out...zzzzzzz. What braniac came up with we need more shopping and bars, it's just so dull dull dull. What kind of vanilla yuppy blog is this?

    I think you've got it all wrong, cause yer barking up the wrong city. I dont think thats who we are. I've said it before, besides eating and drinking (booze or coffee), I really find Edmontonians are go home and stay home people. I've often heard people say Edmonton is dull, like a big small town. Or refer to it as Deadmonton. Interesting cities, with variety of things to do, with both accessible nature and fun things to do attracts fun outgoing people (Van, Cal and even some small towns). The energy in those cities is awesome and I dont find any of that energy here, besides population growth, which doesnt really count as energy. I think this city is a reflection of what its putting in to those types of activities. No offense 1 million people. This is anonymous right?

    Does anyone agree at all? I realize that statement wont be true of absolutely everyone so please dont pick it apart too much but havn't you felt of heard any of that before? How do we change that? Is it really just with trendier shopping and more bars? I've been to many of the bars in Edmonton, and I can't say as those are the shining examples of people I want to get to know. No yes?
    Life is what you make of it. You can go out and help to make a new energy, or you can sit at home and say its a dead City.

    There is a lot of life in this City if you look for it, but you have to go out and do it.

  5. #105
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    Absolutely not, I dont want to see Edmonton remain all about the biggest mall in the world. I'm absolutely not resistant to change and I'm not sure why you would think I would be based on what I said above. Thats why I read here and post here. I'm hoping. Hoping that I will see more of what it is that I think defines a cool city (granted I dont know what that is off hand, but I know it when I see it). Of course thats probably not what sustains a city but it's what I find interesting and I have to live here. Don't get me wrong, Edmonton has allowed me to grow a business, own a home etc. I also challenge anyone in here as to most museum visits etc in one calendar year. I do the Muttart, the museum, concerts but even those have clearly not had a boost in funding for quite some time. The museum, inside downtown library etc are in absolute desperate need of mega funding. I also volunteer a bit. I dont "sit at home and say its a dead city". I've desperately tried to put roots down here for years. I find the people friendly just somewhat homebodies. The statements werent meant to criticize as much as they were meant to be probing. Those are things I've heard about Edmonton, felt a little bit, and hoped to see change with our growth. I see condo's, towers and retail, I'd like to see some fun stuff too.

    I was just curious more than anything if other people felt that way a bit or if people were really satisfied with Edmonton living. I didnt say I had the answers...just had the questions.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Absolutely not, I dont want to see Edmonton remain all about the biggest mall in the world. I'm absolutely not resistant to change and I'm not sure why you would think I would be based on what I said above. Thats why I read here and post here. I'm hoping. Hoping that I will see more of what it is that I think defines a cool city (granted I dont know what that is off hand, but I know it when I see it). Of course thats probably not what sustains a city but it's what I find interesting and I have to live here. Don't get me wrong, Edmonton has allowed me to grow a business, own a home etc. I also challenge anyone in here as to most museum visits etc in one calendar year. I do the Muttart, the museum, concerts but even those have clearly not had a boost in funding for quite some time. The museum, inside downtown library etc are in absolute desperate need of mega funding. I also volunteer a bit. I dont "sit at home and say its a dead city". I've desperately tried to put roots down here for years. I find the people friendly just somewhat homebodies. The statements werent meant to criticize as much as they were meant to be probing. Those are things I've heard about Edmonton, felt a little bit, and hoped to see change with our growth. I see condo's, towers and retail, I'd like to see some fun stuff too.

    I was just curious more than anything if other people felt that way a bit or if people were really satisfied with Edmonton living. I didnt say I had the answers...just had the questions.
    I don't think any of us are really truly satisfied with Edmonton living. We are all out there trying to change it, make it more vibrant and get people out of their homes to experience some of the truly unique and great things we have.

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    While Edmonton does not have as large a group of 18-35, the demo that goes out most, as other major cities....it is still quite a vibrant city.

    The biggest problem Edmonton has is that people choose to go to south edmonton common or wem on a week night or weekend instead of going to whyte or the core for a walk/shopping/lunch etc.

    In toronto, van, mtl, ottawa you have a large portion of people who choose to go downtown because it is cool/interesting/fun to go to.
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  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    The biggest problem Edmonton has is that people choose to go to south edmonton common or wem on a week night or weekend instead of going to whyte or the core for a walk/shopping/lunch etc.

    In toronto, van, mtl, ottawa you have a large portion of people who choose to go downtown because it is cool/interesting/fun to go to.
    Okay remind me why that is the biggest problem? First, are they really? Some people argue that Whyte is suffering from overcrowding. And other threads are popping up about the number of people downtown on a Saturday night.

    But my real question is, if people in toronto vancouver montreal and ottawa choose to go downtown because it is cool and fun, are we not choosing to go to WEM and South Edmonton Common for the same reasons?

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    Oh my God. If people in this town seriously consider South Edmonton Common to be the apex of cool and fun then maybe it's time I move to a real city.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    Oh my God. If people in this town seriously consider South Edmonton Common to be the apex of cool and fun then maybe it's time I move to a real city.
    Well this is just my point. I don't think that people "owe it" to downtown to go there instead. To be honest, I think if they're choosing South Edmonton Common instead of downtown, then downtown is setting the bar very low by comparison. I'm not sure there is anything inherently wrong with the people, who are just voting with their feet.

    Also, I don't particularly care whether Edmonton is vibrant 500 metres from city hall or 5 kilometres from city hall, so long as it is vibrant somewhere.

    People talk about Kingsway and WEM as though they have conspired to remove vibrancy from downtown. But if you really think that vibrancy is a "zero sum game" then the vibrancy is still there, it is just not where you had decided it should be.

    If I had a billion dollars...actually if I had two billion dollars, I would buy two things: All of east downtown east of 97th and south of 107 ave. (the most under-appreciated land in Alberta), and WEM (the number one built environment in Alberta falling short of its potential.)

    Both of them should be incredible. Neither of them are, but only one of them is Downtown.

    Maybe we should post signs:
    "Downtown; The Officially Designated Zone for Vibrancy"

    Grin. I'm full of beans this morning...

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    I am just as puzzled by the attraction to SEC though. Apart from IKEA, what's there that you can't find anywhere else in the city?

    What downtown needs are more reasons to go there during the evenings and weekends.


    The following is all off the top of my head, but anyway...

    List of reasons to go downtown (current and upcoming):
    - AGA
    - Winspear
    - Citadel
    - High-end shops such as Holt Renfrew and Henry Singer
    - Destination restaurants such as Hardware Grill, Characters, Madisons
    - Hotel Mac
    - downtown Farmer's market
    - unique retailers such as Audreys
    - nightclubs and pubs
    - Legislature grounds
    - Shaw Conference Centre (despite the Berlin Wall)
    - City Hall
    - Legislature
    - Louise McKinney Park

    What downtown needs or nice to have:
    - redeveloped Jasper East
    - new NHL arena/multipurpose complex
    - more office towers
    - more condos
    - more residents
    - more hotels
    - more live music venues
    - better transportation access (both car and transit)
    - more high-end and unique retail
    - more restaurants
    - more services for downtown residents (groceries, hardware)

  12. #112
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    "
    Well this is just my point. I don't think that people "owe it" to downtown to go there instead. To be honest, I think if they're choosing South Edmonton Common instead of downtown, then downtown is setting the bar very low by comparison. I'm not sure there is anything inherently wrong with the people, who are just voting with their feet"

    you do have a point with this...the bar is FAR TOO LOW...Downtown does not look anywhere near a downtown of the richest provincial capital in this country.

    Sidewalks falling apart, garbage strewn, a higher crime rate than there should be, and a feeling of overall feeling of meh.

    Downtown has come a far far way since 1984, but has far far more to go before it is great.

    We need to encourage more brand names and more independents to setup shop. We need better marketing. We need better LRT to the core. We need more things to do. We need more people living in the core. We need better policing. We need more cleaning of sidewalks, storefronts, roads, etc.

    But Edmontonians need to make a decision...they can continue to shop downtown calgary, vancouver, toronto when they are there and not do the same in their fair city....or they can support their heart, their soul, their downtown.

    ....
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  13. #113

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    The difference between downtown and WEM and SEC is, to me, a critical one. Dowtown/Whyte/124th St are public not private property. They are not an privately owned concern where the environment is strictly controlled to focus exclusively on commmerce.

    There is no library in WEM. There is no art gallery in SEC.

    You ask why downtown matters? Why it is the designated zone for vibrancy? It's because vibrancy isn't about just shopping. It's about going shopping, getting a book at the library, watching the kids skateboarding, hanging out at a cafe and arguing about politics.... here's a quote that is my signature on another board:

    The urban is the space that allows for collective expression, for places where gatherings can happen that wouldn’t otherwise happen, that don’t cater only to the individual.~Farshid Moussavi, GSD Professor in Practice of Architecture; Principal, Foreign Office Architects, London
    Downtown is our agora. Our collective meeting place. At least it should be.

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    Ya I would hate to see SEC or WEM thinking on Whyte (which it is creeping, puke barf spit chapters and lechateau booourns!) or on 124th which I kinda think is a neato place and on Jasper or Jasper west which also has mega potential. There have been alot of places pointed out on this thread about places to go, and I go to them, and yes there are things that exist to do, but they need a cashola injection. Like churchill square... After work hours its sketchy at best, I'm a bench, park, square people watcher kind of girl, honestly I dont even find it safe. During work hours with more downtown rush...I'm at work. Even in our retail suggestions for Jasper rejuv we are very inside the box. BORING. Calgary and Vancouver has so many fashionable trendy non large chain type shopping. Lets follow suit (if retail is as creative as we can be).

    I agree about the vibrancy thing, collective expression yaya!!. Thats was I was trying to get at. We can build that and grow it and if all we plant is poopy cookie cutter big chain retail , what will that grow us? Thats what freaks me out for Edmonton. Those of us who live here cant get by on SEC, WEM, shopping and downtown bars. Its like the art gallery, yer gonna wrap it in really cool sparkly paper and yer gonna be really dissapointed when you open it. I dont want Edmonton to just look like a booming hub of expansion, I want it to have some attraction other than shopping and oil when the boom slows.

    Now you must excuse me, I must go to WEM for glow in the dark mini golf.
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    "Calgary and Vancouver has so many fashionable trendy non large chain type shopping"


    dont even put those two beside each other....OMG......van is on par with toronto/mtl not CALGARY.

    Hell WEM has more variety than most of calgary.

    Edmonton needs to attract more high end, yes, but it isnt going to be what solidifies downtown retail.

    Earl's, H&M, Banana Republic, Moxies, more starbucks, more axis cafes, more Queue, more running rooms, more Sugarbowls....those are what we need in the core......please oh god, please.
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  16. #116

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    ummm...

    Don't people who live in the south side go to South Edmonton Common because it's easier to get to than downtown? Alot of timid drivers never use the Gateway Blvd. charlie foxtrot headache, and therefore, rarely go to downtown.

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    Vibrancy isn't just about the buildings and retail businesses either. It's also about the people itself and their attitude towards their surroundings.

    Many times it seems our city is dominated by the ball cap and thug-wear crowd spitting and cruising for a fight. We need more executives, young professionals, families, immigrants, musicians and artists. We need the cowboys and the Indians, old and young, the pretty and prettier, the fashionistas and the geeks, the exotic and the erotic, the straight and the pink, the black and the white, all mixing and meeting together in a tolerant harmony.

    And where is that likely going happen in any large city? In some soulless big box purgatory? A big-*** shopping mall?

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    "Vibrancy isn't just about the buildings and retail businesses either. It's also about the people itself and their attitude towards their surroundings. "


    bingo.....and it does seem that we have far too many people in this city content with WALMART, SEC, blades of glory.

    Hence why we need to continue to expand our galleries, museums, universities, creative jobs, and white collar jobs.

    Go to Montreal...tell me if it is the people or the place.
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    Ok barf. According to popular opinion on this thread, Edmonton is going to remain exactly what its always been to non Edmontonians, a great place to stop and do a quick shop on your way to somewhere good.

    I dont understand this Calgary/Edmonton thingy. I think Calgary is really neat, really alive and energetic. I'd wish some of that for Edmonton.

    I'm gonna be removed from this blog, I can feel it. tee
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    "bingo.....and it does seem that we have far too many people in this city content with WALMART, SEC, blades of glory. "

    "Earl's, H&M, Banana Republic, Moxies, more starbucks, more axis cafes, more Queue, more running rooms, more Sugarbowls....those are what we need in the core......please oh god, please. "

    Wow, to me those is just yuppier richer persons versions of the same boring crap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Ok barf. According to popular opinion on this thread, Edmonton is going to remain exactly what its always been to non Edmontonians, a great place to stop and do a quick shop on your way to somewhere good.

    I dont understand this Calgary/Edmonton thingy. I think Calgary is really neat, really alive and energetic. I'd wish some of that for Edmonton.

    I'm gonna be removed from this blog, I can feel it. tee

    you arent going to be removed, but you are going to be educated...i personally guarantee this.

    Calgary is a great city...im not going to take anything away from it.

    But Edmonton has very very comparible "neat, alive, energetic" ness. The problem is, when people go to calgary, van, tor, etc....they go to 17th ave, they go to downtown malls, they eat out, shop, etc.

    ...many of the same dont do that in Edmonton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    "bingo.....and it does seem that we have far too many people in this city content with WALMART, SEC, blades of glory. "

    "Earl's, H&M, Banana Republic, Moxies, more starbucks, more axis cafes, more Queue, more running rooms, more Sugarbowls....those are what we need in the core......please oh god, please. "

    Wow, to me those is just yuppier richer persons versions of the same boring crap.
    maybe...maybe not...but they appeal to young, old, low income, high income, and are seen as places to go, to be seen, to read, to relax, to celebrate.

    They are also wonder places that engage people...unlike WALMART et al.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    But Edmonton has very very comparible "neat, alive, energetic" ness. The problem is, when people go to calgary, van, tor, etc....they go to 17th ave, they go to downtown malls, they eat out, shop, etc.

    ...many of the same dont do that in Edmonton.
    Whyte Ave is our version of that to a certain extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    But Edmonton has very very comparible "neat, alive, energetic" ness. The problem is, when people go to calgary, van, tor, etc....they go to 17th ave, they go to downtown malls, they eat out, shop, etc.

    ...many of the same dont do that in Edmonton.
    Whyte Ave is our version of that to a certain extent.
    thats my point...i know far too many people from Edmonton who hit 17th and come back with:

    "so interesting"
    "energy/life"
    "things you cant find here"
    "amazing food"
    "great nightlife"

    ....if you explore whyte, jasper....you get identical experiences.

    but many dont.
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    I guess the variable of what kind of person you are needs to be plugged in to the opinion of the city you live in. But that being said, I dont find Edmonton energetic.

    I guess what I'm also defending is the blue collar probable majority in Edmonton. We all live life here. I actually liked the blue collar feel here more than Calgarys a bit snobby attitude, I like the workin' man, its why I moved here. Its real. How are we doing anything for the quality of life of people who cant afford H&M etc? The balance is just really off to me.

    I hate Walmart for the record and I have a white collar job but I'd hate to see the variety of incomes, colors, religions, educations, bla bla being pushed further and further out. I dont see the blending, i see the bulldozing.
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    "How are we doing anything for the quality of life of people who cant afford H&M etc?"

    again...education you need.

    H&M is very very affordable...exceptionally. Think Club Monaco at 50-75% off.

    Edmonton has bulldozed and blended as with any city.

    Again, this is about what is important to you....and if that means SEC and saving $2.99 on a bulk pack of paper towels rather than an interesting afternoon downtown, whyte, high street, low st, any street...then thats people's right to choose that.

    I like variety, i appreciate diversity in everything i do, and i enjoy downtown and whyte over wem or sec.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    But Edmonton has very very comparible "neat, alive, energetic" ness. The problem is, when people go to calgary, van, tor, etc....they go to 17th ave, they go to downtown malls, they eat out, shop, etc.

    ...many of the same dont do that in Edmonton.
    Whyte Ave is our version of that to a certain extent.
    thats my point...i know far too many people from Edmonton who hit 17th and come back with:

    "so interesting"
    "energy/life"
    "things you cant find here"
    "amazing food"
    "great nightlife"

    ....if you explore whyte, jasper....you get identical experiences.

    but many dont.
    Funny, I've heard Calgarians say the same thing about Whyte Ave!

    Let's be clear: Many Edmontonians still go to Whyte Ave for that same urban ambience as other cities. The sidewalks, shops and eateries are still busy with locals. The problem is that it now has that that perception of night-time drunken violence.

    We just need more areas of the city with that same feel, in downtown and on 124 St.

  28. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    How are we doing anything for the quality of life of people who cant afford H&M etc? .
    8$ t-shirts are unaffordable?

    Sorry, but if you clearly are not familiar with what we're discussing.

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    "The problem is that it now has that that perception of night-time drunken violence. "

    i dont think so...maybe with those who do not go, but most everyone i know still love going there, even if it means dinner and drinks or a lounge now:>
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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    I guess the variable of what kind of person you are needs to be plugged in to the opinion of the city you live in. But that being said, I dont find Edmonton energetic.

    I guess what I'm also defending is the blue collar probable majority in Edmonton. We all live life here. I actually liked the blue collar feel here more than Calgarys a bit snobby attitude, I like the workin' man, its why I moved here. Its real. How are we doing anything for the quality of life of people who cant afford H&M etc? The balance is just really off to me.

    I hate Walmart for the record and I have a white collar job but I'd hate to see the variety of incomes, colors, religions, educations, bla bla being pushed further and further out. I dont see the blending, i see the bulldozing.
    For the record, I agree with you to an extent. We need the variety of backgrounds, income levels, cultures, etc.

    Where I disagree with you is this perception of us as a blue collar city being a good thing. I personally hate it because of the negative connotations: the factories, warehouses, trailer parks, uneducated bar-brawling simpletons, LCD culture, pickup trucks. On the other hand, I don't to be solely in a white-collar city either because it reeks of corporate monoculture and ultraconservatism. No, I want to live in a city with many different colours of collars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDavidson
    Until the retail environment becomes crowded we should still focus on the small retailers and small scale façade improvements. To further that, maybe there could be some kind of program in “urban retailing” that would help small businesses to raise their profile.
    I would sign up for that course - both as a student and as a teacher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LindseyT
    Quote Originally Posted by travis
    Quote Originally Posted by LindseyT
    There is no reason West Jasper can't have more retail. You have tens of thousands of people in oliver without a aduquate supply of retail. The city should offer some sort of fund to help redo the street level of buildings in oliver...get rid of the strip mall like parking some of the towers have type thing.
    Which brings up a question that I've been thinking about recently. Why is the city trying to revitalize places like Alberta Avenue instead of places like west Jasper?
    Excellent question.

    Seriously, it's something that we should be looking for answers too.

    i've never thought about it before in that context though.
    This is what I asked ages ago on another thread (except it was specifically about 124th, but Jasper applies too), and was told that Alberta Ave has greater potential and essentially a coolness factor b/c of all the artists.

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    Default Re: Downtown Retail

    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    Quote Originally Posted by snakes on a blog
    I think most people avoid shopping downtown because there's nothing open on saturdays or sundays (excluding the malls).
    That's the catch22. There's nothing open because people avoid downtown.
    By "mall", that has to mean Edmonton Centre, Holts' etc, right? B/c is there streetfront shopping right downtown, even during the weekday?

    Unless "downtown" is expanded to include 124th street. In which case I'm happy to report that Saturday's in my (and my neighbours') store are crazy busy. Totally worth it to be open on Sundays, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmowl
    You can promote all you want but unless there's a real reason to make DT a destination, no-one's gonna come. So, what's the hook? What sets DT apart from all other retail districts in the city?
    It is, or should be, atmosphere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citysource
    I guess the missing components to the retail landscape are the services that actual DT residents want, like a hardware store.
    As a downtown dweller and worker, I can give an assured YES!

    Big Box Hell shopping trips are for: Rona for hardware supplies, Homesense for store and home supplies, Nature's Garden Centre to dream about summer, Superstore to stock up on pantry foods (just can't do the same at 109st Save-on).

    Here's an interesting note: I haven't even been to (WEM's) H&M yet. Shock of all shockers. Have you seen my group?

    Now that I think of it, here's why: when you've been to H&M on Fifth Avenue or on Powell Street or on Dundas, the prospect of a mall store just doesn't excite. And not b/c I'm a horrible snob! But I've experienced it over and over again (with Old Navy, Abercrombie, etc etc etc.) It is just a completely different experience shopping in a downtown streetfront location versus the safe, watered-down version in a suburban mall somewhere..

    And THAT is what we're missing from Edmonton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxbeauty
    Quote Originally Posted by edmowl
    You can promote all you want but unless there's a real reason to make DT a destination, no-one's gonna come. So, what's the hook? What sets DT apart from all other retail districts in the city?
    It is, or should be, atmosphere.
    yes, we finally have it!!!

    and that atmosphere is not a mutually exclusive one that threatens any and all other retail districts. just as downtown vancouver's "buzz" encompasses half a dozen "districts" (the business district, the west end, robson street, davie and denman streets, coal harbour, yaletown, gastown, false creek, the international village and chinatown etc.). it did not harm south granville or broadway or kerrisdale or commercial drive or marine drive etc. it didn't even harm the better shopping centres like oakridge and park royal... it did however make them work harder and do a better job.

    if edmonton's downtown develops that same inclusive critical mass of office and residential and retail and arts and entertainment and education and hotels etc., it will extend to 124th Street along jasper and chinatown along 97th street and up 101st street and pick up jasper east and the north edge etc... it will complement whyte avenue and fort road and kingsway and "the mall" and south edmonton common and everything else that has "atmosphere", however diverse. and when it does, it will make these areas work harder and do a better job as well.

  37. #137

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    [quote="luxbeauty"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Citysource
    As a downtown dweller and worker, I can give an assured YES!

    Big Box Hell shopping trips are for: Rona for hardware supplies, Homesense for store and home supplies, Nature's Garden Centre to dream about summer, Superstore to stock up on pantry foods (just can't do the same at 109st Save-on).
    Pretty much the same for me. Home Depot, Costco, HomeSense... and this year I suspect I'll be hitting a garden centre of some sort....

    I'd love for the Office Depot in Oliver Square to become a big independent hardware store...

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    [quote="m0nkyman"]
    Quote Originally Posted by luxbeauty
    Quote Originally Posted by Citysource
    As a downtown dweller and worker, I can give an assured YES!

    Big Box Hell shopping trips are for: Rona for hardware supplies, Homesense for store and home supplies, Nature's Garden Centre to dream about summer, Superstore to stock up on pantry foods (just can't do the same at 109st Save-on).
    Pretty much the same for me. Home Depot, Costco, HomeSense... and this year I suspect I'll be hitting a garden centre of some sort....

    I'd love for the Office Depot in Oliver Square to become a big independent hardware store...
    rona and thunderbird and home depot are just some of the "big boxes" (which also includes the grocers etc.) looking at how to develop "downtown" urban models - not just for edmonton but for other urban centres as well as their growth plans are starting to be negatively affected. shipping and receiving as well as customer pickup and delivery are just some of the more obvious areas that need to be addressed along with how "broad" they have to keep their inventory before they start to lose their identity and bleed sales to their suburban stores. it is not an easy task but there aren't too many suburban markets left on the continent that don't have a home depot or a lowes etc. so their future growth will depend on how well they make that move to urban centres. if you want to move edmonton further up their radar screens, write them and e-mail them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0nkyman
    I'd love for the Office Depot in Oliver Square to become a big independent hardware store...
    I'd like to see an urban-style hardware store in the warehouse district, say on 105 St where the YMCA Enterprise Centre is now. It would walking distance for the new condo dwellers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    What braniac came up with we need more shopping and bars, it's just so dull dull dull.
    From New Retail by Rasshied Din.

    "Shopping has always been a social and highly personal activity, So much more than just a practical necessity, it is a communal activity, about people coming together in markets, malls or streets. It encompasses the buying of essential commodities and being tempted by a luxury item that has no use other than to raise our spirits and give our lives an extra sparkle. In addition to this, shipping is and opportunity to meet friends, to gather information or just to watch the world go by at our leisure"


    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    I really find Edmontonians are go home and stay home people. I've often heard people say Edmonton is dull, like a big small town. Or refer to it as Deadmonton. Interesting cities, with variety of things to do, with both accessible nature and fun things to do attracts fun outgoing people.
    Yes, there are a whole bunch of Edmontonians who are dull, go-to-work, go-to-home people. I think that is found in any population.

    However, there is also a segment of Edmonton's population that are out making things happen, who express themselves through art, music and fashion, who create their own events, who are rarely found bored at home, and who have a whole network of like-minded people and love spreading the word. They are driven by experience and quality over price and convenience.

    If I understand the thread correctly, I believe the argument is not "let's convert the entire population of Edmonton to downtown hipsters", but "Let's cater to that cohesive, experience-driven, spendy group by encouraging a downtown mall-ternative with the goal attracting like-minded people in the long-run and boosting Edmonton's reputation."

    That's an argument I can get behind. Heck, I already have. Has anyone visited South 124 Street in the past year?

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    Default Re: Downtown Retail

    Quote Originally Posted by luxbeauty
    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    Quote Originally Posted by snakes on a blog
    I think most people avoid shopping downtown because there's nothing open on saturdays or sundays (excluding the malls).
    That's the catch22. There's nothing open because people avoid downtown.
    By "mall", that has to mean Edmonton Centre, Holts' etc, right? B/c is there streetfront shopping right downtown, even during the weekday?

    Unless "downtown" is expanded to include 124th street. In which case I'm happy to report that Saturday's in my (and my neighbours') store are crazy busy. Totally worth it to be open on Sundays, too.

    good to hear...i love 124st/high and although havent bought anything in your store, i love the look of it. Ginger is my fav clothing store in the city.
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    heh heh, my entire wardrobe comes from Ginger.

    As for my store, we sell loads of stuff for men, too. In fact, some of my most loyal customers are male. Just FYI

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxbeauty
    heh heh, my entire wardrobe comes from Ginger.

    As for my store, we sell loads of stuff for men, too. In fact, some of my most loyal customers are male. Just FYI

    ok ok...ill stop in with my gf next time we are down there.
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  44. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    Quote Originally Posted by luxbeauty
    heh heh, my entire wardrobe comes from Ginger.

    As for my store, we sell loads of stuff for men, too. In fact, some of my most loyal customers are male. Just FYI

    ok ok...ill stop in with my gf next time we are down there.
    I'd suggest you drop in at my store too.... but that might be dangerous for you.

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    You can pick apart word for word if you like. But it was the just of the thing I was getting at. We really were talking about white collar stores and restaurants. I think someone even said "attract white collar". EW. The kind of education you can give me sir, trust me I dont want. You havn't educated me, you have spouted your opinion, of which I already have one of my own.You cant sell me your white collar dink or sink yuppy vanilla crap. You just can't . I just don't agree with what the majority of this forum finds fun and dont find it interesting or diverse. We are talking about the same old thing that will attract the same old people. And thats whats always been the problem with Edmonton, its total lack of creativity or innovative uniqueness.

    I should be happy that we are free to enjoy what we enjoy , and to each their own.I was looking for more depth, more fun than retail. RETAIL. CONSUME. RETAIL. ag. Its like picking up a bimbo, she might look good on the outside, but look out, dont scratch that surface.


    ps - this is great and what I'm getting at!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If I understand the thread correctly, I believe the argument is not "let's convert the entire population of Edmonton to downtown hipsters", but "Let's cater to that cohesive, experience-driven, spendy group by encouraging a downtown mall-ternative with the goal attracting like-minded people in the long-run and boosting Edmonton's reputation."
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    afairlady.

    I will overlook the question as to whether your user name is intended satirically. But I am here to learn, not always to convince.

    And I would appreciate knowing what you mean by "blue collar" and "white collar."

    I, like you, have a hard time describing what I like, but I know it when I see it. I don't group the world into blue or white collar primarily because I have no clue what that could possibly mean.

    I know what I like, but you describe the world in blue and white, and I still don't have a clue what you like. Please explain, if you don't mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    You can pick apart word for word if you like. But it was the just of the thing I was getting at. We really were talking about white collar stores and restaurants. I think someone even said "attract white collar". EW. The kind of education you can give me sir, trust me I dont want. You havn't educated me, you have spouted your opinion, of which I already have one of my own.You cant sell me your white collar dink or sink yuppy vanilla crap. You just can't . I just don't agree with what the majority of this forum finds fun and dont find it interesting or diverse. We are talking about the same old thing that will attract the same old people. And thats whats always been the problem with Edmonton, its total lack of creativity or innovative uniqueness.

    I should be happy that we are free to enjoy what we enjoy , and to each their own.I was looking for more depth, more fun than retail. RETAIL. CONSUME. RETAIL. ag. Its like picking up a bimbo, she might look good on the outside, but look out, dont scratch that surface.


    ps - this is great and what I'm getting at!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If I understand the thread correctly, I believe the argument is not "let's convert the entire population of Edmonton to downtown hipsters", but "Let's cater to that cohesive, experience-driven, spendy group by encouraging a downtown mall-ternative with the goal attracting like-minded people in the long-run and boosting Edmonton's reputation."
    And yet you still don't suggest anything concrete in your anti-"yuppie" babbling. Tell us what innovative ideas you have, please? And until you do, the conversation will continue to go around in circles like a couple of dogs sniffing each other's buttocks.

  48. #148

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    Judging by my clientele, it's the tradespeople and the small business owners who are the people spending money at the nicer stores in town. And seeing as how I have the nicest jewellery store in town...

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    last time i checked mechanics and electricians liked earls, starbucks, and clothing as much as anyone else.
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    Clearly now this is about splitting hairs and arguing. The core of the comments were meant as, sure we have alot of money for new condo's and for retail and bars, but where else are we putting that money. What are we growing that educates, enriches, enlightens. The future of downtown is just retail? I thought maybe someone in here (since you seem to know everything)could tell me about new fun stuff planned for our city.

    I will refrain from blue/white collar talk. It doesnt really apply anymore anyway. How about rich and poor. Can we move on now? Perhaps I should use the term, people who work full time and dont make alot of cash. The janitors, the retail people, gas station attendants, the breakfast cooks, the dishwashers etc. I work with people who are poor by all accounts, working poor, in fact many of them work in retail. I know they can't afford to spend 60$ on a shirt and $80 on pants and 120$ on shoes. I know they can't buy that for their kids. I know they have never been into Holt. I know they can't afford a 5$ coffee. I know they can't afford any of the new housing being erected. I know because they tell me. I know they can't even afford the price of admission to a hockey game. I think sometimes people forget about those who have less than them. I was just playing devils advocate. Their side should be argued, and we should care.

    I don't have ideas, I have questions. It's how I started off my "babbling".

    Which jewellery store I have to know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Clearly now this is about splitting hairs and arguing. The core of the comments were meant as, sure we have alot of money for new condo's and for retail and bars, but where else are we putting that money. What are we growing that educates, enriches, enlightens. The future of downtown is just retail? I thought maybe someone in here (since you seem to know everything)could tell me about new fun stuff planned for our city.

    I will refrain from blue/white collar talk. It doesnt really apply anymore anyway. How about rich and poor. Can we move on now? Perhaps I should use the term, people who work full time and dont make alot of cash. The janitors, the retail people, gas station attendants, the breakfast cooks, the dishwashers etc. I work with people who are poor by all accounts, working poor, in fact many of them work in retail. I know they can't afford to spend 60$ on a shirt and $80 on pants and 120$ on shoes. I know they can't buy that for their kids. I know they have never been into

    Holt. I know they can't afford a 5$ coffee. I know they can't afford any of the new housing being erected. I know because they tell me. I know they can't even afford the price of admission to a hockey game. I think sometimes people forget about those who have less than them. I was just playing devils advocate. Their side should be argued, and we should care.

    I don't have ideas, I have questions. It's how I started off my "babbling".

    Which jewellery store I have to know.
    This might be the wrong thread then to ask what else can be done outside of "retail" Downtown to make it more vibrant and interesting.
    The specific purpose of this one was to find out why more name brand or independents retailers aren't setting up Downtown.

    Make another thread with your ideas, I'm pretty sure it'll a TON of replies. Would be a good one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Clearly now this is about splitting hairs and arguing...
    ...I was just playing devils advocate. Their side should be argued, and we should care.
    afairlady,

    it is one thing to split hairs and argue or to defend a postion or even to play devil's advodate. as far as this white collar worker is concerned however, it is quite another to spew out "I think someone even said "attract white collar". EW. The kind of education you can give me sir, trust me I dont want. You havn't educated me, you have spouted your opinion, of which I already have one of my own.You cant sell me your white collar dink or sink yuppy vanilla crap. You just can't."

    you have shown nothing in this vitriol to demonstrate either ability or desire to understand those who do not agree with you. you succeed only in demonstrating a lack of empathy and respect that is the antithesis of the caring you call for.

    good luck to you, you will need it with that attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Ok barf. According to popular opinion on this thread, Edmonton is going to remain exactly what its always been to non Edmontonians, a great place to stop and do a quick shop on your way to somewhere good.

    I dont understand this Calgary/Edmonton thingy. I think Calgary is really neat, really alive and energetic. I'd wish some of that for Edmonton.

    I'm gonna be removed from this blog, I can feel it. tee

    you arent going to be removed, but you are going to be educated...i personally guarantee this.

    Calgary is a great city...im not going to take anything away from it.

    But Edmonton has very very comparible "neat, alive, energetic" ness. The problem is, when people go to calgary, van, tor, etc....they go to 17th ave, they go to downtown malls, they eat out, shop, etc.

    ...many of the same dont do that in Edmonton.
    To be honest, most of the people I know rarely go to Eaton Centre in Calgary or 17th. They head straight to Chinook or Marketmall. So it's not THAT different than Edmonton where people go to WEM or elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Clearly now this is about splitting hairs and arguing...
    ...I was just playing devils advocate. Their side should be argued, and we should care.
    afairlady,

    it is one thing to split hairs and argue or to defend a postion or even to play devil's advodate. as far as this white collar worker is concerned however, it is quite another to spew out "I think someone even said "attract white collar". EW. The kind of education you can give me sir, trust me I dont want. You havn't educated me, you have spouted your opinion, of which I already have one of my own.You cant sell me your white collar dink or sink yuppy vanilla crap. You just can't."

    you have shown nothing in this vitriol to demonstrate either ability or desire to understand those who do not agree with you. you succeed only in demonstrating a lack of empathy and respect that is the antithesis of the caring you call for.

    good luck to you, you will need it with that attitude.
    Touche Ken, touche!

  55. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    Clearly now this is about splitting hairs and arguing...
    ...I was just playing devils advocate. Their side should be argued, and we should care.
    afairlady,

    it is one thing to split hairs and argue or to defend a postion or even to play devil's advodate. as far as this white collar worker is concerned however, it is quite another to spew out "I think someone even said "attract white collar". EW. The kind of education you can give me sir, trust me I dont want. You havn't educated me, you have spouted your opinion, of which I already have one of my own.You cant sell me your white collar dink or sink yuppy vanilla crap. You just can't."

    you have shown nothing in this vitriol to demonstrate either ability or desire to understand those who do not agree with you. you succeed only in demonstrating a lack of empathy and respect that is the antithesis of the caring you call for.

    good luck to you, you will need it with that attitude.
    Or, Ken, do like I have: write her off and move on. Clearly someone that jaded can't be objective.

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    write me off. Wow I'm gonna cry myself to sleep tonight. Lack of empathy towards wha exactly? Which part are you quoting and attacking? Iano often gives me great insight or info on things I didnt know about. In this case, he didnt. Again if you are defending him, he doesnt need it. Sometimes people agree to disagree, which is a good thing. I'm usually nothing but facetious so it's too bad so much is lost in tone. I'm not hear to get along, I'm here to learn some stuff, ask questions, see whats goin on.

    My questions were genuine. I'm not saying you should know or you are a thoughtless wanker, I honestly thought someone might know. I find people in here (often because they work for the city or are very informed due to pure interest) have the inside scoop on new development. I was asking a serious question. Did anyone know what else we were doing to get downtown plugged back in. I see we denied funding to the museum. Good start. What I got out of this debate is that people either dont know or dont care or I'm not speaking english and you are reading between the lines.

    If that line of questionning makes me the most closed minded person you know....yikes.
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  57. #157

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    Yeah. Um. What was the question again? 'Cause I couldn't find it. This thread is about retail downtown. That is one of the draws that makes a downtown healthy. No one is saying it is the only one.

    If you're complaining that we're not talking about our efforts to restore funding to the museum, or efforts to improve the art gallery, or efforts to tie the river valley to downtown better, or our support for some of the social services downtown, in this thread, well, you're getting off topic for this thread.

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    You are right. At first I wanted to know what kind of retail people wanted and got onto what else they might like to see.

    "And seeing as how I have the nicest jewellery store in town..." again which jewellery store is it?????
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  59. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    "And seeing as how I have the nicest jewellery store in town..." again which jewellery store is it?????
    idar

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    Ooookay.

    So changing topics slightly, what does everyone think of the recent downtown marketing campaigns?

    City Centre has their b&w "I mall walk in stilettos" and "You can buy happiness. I have the receipts to prove it" billboards.

    On Jasper around 115th there's a billboard for www.edmontondowntown.com with the slogan "Save room for desert and Picasso."

    Blu's has covered the city with billboards over the last year, and yesterday I heard a radio ad that made me realize that they're actually located in Manulife (I'm not the target market, so I always just assumed they were at WEM or Southgate).

    Thoughts?

  61. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled
    Ooookay.

    So changing topics slightly, what does everyone think of the recent downtown marketing campaigns?

    City Centre has their b&w "I mall walk in stilettos" and "You can buy happiness. I have the receipts to prove it" billboards.

    On Jasper around 115th there's a billboard for www.edmontondowntown.com with the slogan "Save room for desert and Picasso."

    Blu's has covered the city with billboards over the last year, and yesterday I heard a radio ad that made me realize that they're actually located in Manulife (I'm not the target market, so I always just assumed they were at WEM or Southgate).

    Thoughts?
    The City Centre billboards do not do anything for me.

    The Edmonton downtown billboards I like.

    Blu's billboards are simple so I like them too. BTW, Blu's is upstairs in Southgate Mall also!

    Way to get this thread back on track!

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    "What are we growing that educates, enriches, enlightens. "

    uofa
    art gallery
    ballet funding
    hockey downtown
    museum - will come back
    ukranian museum - UCAMA

    there is plenty...

    but to get it back on track...

    How can we encourage more people to setup shop downtown. Does the DBA or EEDC need to give incentives, does the city? Do we just need better marketing? Do we need to ship out 400,000 and bring in downtown vancouverites?


    Id venture to say...it rests with more condos in the core. Simply put, we need another 10,000 people in the downtown core area that would support what is there and in the bottom of their new towers, provide 2-3 more retail bays such as ICON or Illuminada.

    This shouldnt be about attracting people who wont come downtown to come downtown, it should be about creating more room to live for those who wish to be.

    developers - time to step up....
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled
    City Centre has their b&w "I mall walk in stilettos" and "You can buy happiness. I have the receipts to prove it" billboards.
    I was going to open a thread about thier campaign. I noticed it a few weeks ago and found it very uncomfortable. The image of a middle-aged women with her nose up in the air gives her the look of a rich snob. I'm wondering why City Centre would put out that kind of image while trying to attract more people to the mall? It certainly turns me off.

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    I was going to open a thread about thier campaign. I noticed it a few weeks ago and found it very uncomfortable. The image of a middle-aged women with her nose up in the air gives her the look of a rich snob. I'm wondering why City Centre would put out that kind of image while trying to attract more people to the mall? It certainly turns me off.
    Yeah, I've spent some time thinking abou that campaign myself. I see what they're trying to do, and even like it, but I think where the ads fail is on the visuals. The problem is that the visuals/models seem to be taking the statements seriously (which makes the ads pompous) rather than having fun with it. I think the creatives were trying to go for the advertising eqivalent of melodrama, but I don't think it worked.

    Tone should be Shopaholic, came out Barbara Amiel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snakes on a blog
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled
    City Centre has their b&w "I mall walk in stilettos" and "You can buy happiness. I have the receipts to prove it" billboards.
    I was going to open a thread about thier campaign. I noticed it a few weeks ago and found it very uncomfortable. The image of a middle-aged women with her nose up in the air gives her the look of a rich snob. I'm wondering why City Centre would put out that kind of image while trying to attract more people to the mall? It certainly turns me off.
    I agree they're pretty off-putting, but I didn't want to be too judgemental to start off with.

    The people that the current ads are marketed to are...well, they're not stupid enough to fall for something so amateurish. For what they're trying to pull off the ads need to be Fierce (in Tyra-speak). And the ads are definitely not fierce.

    I'm also not sure if the snobby demographic is large enough in Edmonton that City Centre should be going after them, to the apparent exclusion of everyone else?

    I personlly think that an inclusive "There's more in the core" style of campaign is what they should go back to. It was done a decade ago, but things have changed a lot since then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snakes on a blog
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled
    City Centre has their b&w "I mall walk in stilettos" and "You can buy happiness. I have the receipts to prove it" billboards.
    I was going to open a thread about thier campaign. I noticed it a few weeks ago and found it very uncomfortable. The image of a middle-aged women with her nose up in the air gives her the look of a rich snob. I'm wondering why City Centre would put out that kind of image while trying to attract more people to the mall? It certainly turns me off.
    Could it be that they are targeting the market they are currently having success with? Holt, HS, Sam A., High Grade - for stores, LUX, the Boardroom, etc etc etc. These places all seem do be doing very will with little advertising (well, LUX has billboards everywhere, but other than that...) With that said, none of these places are in City Centre. Perhaps they are trying to pull people over to check out Urban, etc.

    Now, I should probably clarify here (based on the message I am replying to) - I am not saying that everyone that shops at these places are snobs or anything - infact, I frequent them regularly, and I am not a snob. Some people on here seem to believe, that from a retail perspective, downtown does not have an identity. I would argue that downtown has a draw for "up-scale" shoppers. Could there be more of an identity? Absolutely! Is there more to downtown than "upscale"? Absolutely! Is there more to "upscale" than what we have downtown? DEFINATELY! But, there is an identity that exists already. Outside of a few stores at WEM, there really is no other place in city to buy some of the items at Holt, HS, etc.

    I personally found the slogans on these advertisments mildly clever - maybe I am in the target market they are trying to attract??? Who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by codeman9669
    I personally found the slogans on these advertisments clever - maybe I am in the target market they are trying to attract??? Who knows?
    I completely agree with you Slogans cheeky and relateable. Models - not so much.

    It seems that the consensus (so far) is that the problem with the ads is in the visuals. Newfangled put it so well: they should be Fierce and end up being amaturish (Tyra would never let those models make the cut!)

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    Eaton's Centre in Calgary has amazing advertisements. Has anyone else seen them? The ones with people holding up giant photographs.

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    Here some of them are. Quite eye catching, aren't they?






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    Quote Originally Posted by snakes on a blog
    I'm wondering why City Centre would put out that kind of image while trying to attract more people to the mall? It certainly turns me off.
    I actually thought it was quite brilliant myself and enjoyed them. It fits very well with the demograph they are trying to target, imho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesC
    Quote Originally Posted by snakes on a blog
    I'm wondering why City Centre would put out that kind of image while trying to attract more people to the mall? It certainly turns me off.
    I actually thought it was quite brilliant myself and enjoyed them. It fits very well with the demograph they are trying to target, imho.
    Yea, I like them too. I love the black and white...simple and clean marketing.

  72. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    I guess the variable of what kind of person you are needs to be plugged in to the opinion of the city you live in. But that being said, I dont find Edmonton energetic.
    I thought this was as good as place as any to make my first post.

    I agree with this.
    I lived in Edmonton for almost 30 years and decided I needed a change. I took a job in Winnipeg and then Calgary where I have been ever since. I get up to Edmonton at least once a month for a few days and the one thing that strikes me is the lack of positive energy in Edmonton. Some of it is visual....due to the over abundance of visible infrastructure issues the city has with its main thoroughfares (ie....rusted out/ bent light posts, terrible road conditions, crumbling curbs and sidewalks). It looks like a city in a state of disrepair. These are things I rarely see (if at all) in Calgary. Then I walk around the heart of downtown (City Hall area) and I experience streets that are not people friendly, I see boarded up buildings on Jasper Ave and very little existence of unique shops and cafes....nothing even remotely close to people friendly Stephen Ave mall or the people friendly parks of Eau Claire in downtown Calgary.
    This isn't intended as Edmonton bashing at all because I still consider Edmonton my hometown. I would just like to see the city be a little more conscious of it's shortcomings and have the vision to reach a little higher.

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    ^ exactly. As a person that recently moved back to Edmonton those point are exactly how I feel.

  74. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by guymez
    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    I guess the variable of what kind of person you are needs to be plugged in to the opinion of the city you live in. But that being said, I dont find Edmonton energetic.
    I thought this was as good as place as any to make my first post.

    I agree with this.
    I lived in Edmonton for almost 30 years and decided I needed a change. I took a job in Winnipeg and then Calgary where I have been ever since. I get up to Edmonton at least once a month for a few days and the one thing that strikes me is the lack of positive energy in Edmonton. Some of it is visual....due to the over abundance of visible infrastructure issues the city has with its main thoroughfares (ie....rusted out/ bent light posts, terrible road conditions, crumbling curbs and sidewalks). It looks like a city in a state of disrepair. These are things I rarely see (if at all) in Calgary. Then I walk around the heart of downtown (City Hall area) and I experience streets that are not people friendly, I see boarded up buildings on Jasper Ave and very little existence of unique shops and cafes....nothing even remotely close to people friendly Stephen Ave mall or the people friendly parks of Eau Claire in Calgary.
    This isn't intended as Edmonton bashing at all because I still consider Edmonton my hometown. I would just like to see the city be a little more conscious of it's shortcomings and have the vision to reach a little higher.
    guymez, welcome to C2E!

    Thank you for your comments. I agree with some of them but I think the times and the energy IS changing in Edmonton.

    Do we still have things to do? You bet.

    Are we working on them? Again, you bet.

    I think that Edmonton needs to be aware of its shortcomings if only in as how we can improve on them going forward...

    I also believe that more "big picture" visioning IS happening in Edmonton and from what I am hearing and experiencing Edmonton and Edmontonians ARE expanding our expectations as we strive for higher and higher standards.

    Case in point is the C2E forum, innovative and visionary this site has created an energy, passion and rhetoric vis-à-vis Edmonton that has never existed before.

    Thank you again for your observations and please keep posting to let us (Edmonton) know what you think of our efforts as every perspective is encouraged and required to take Edmonton to even better places!

  75. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    Quote Originally Posted by guymez
    Quote Originally Posted by afairlady
    I guess the variable of what kind of person you are needs to be plugged in to the opinion of the city you live in. But that being said, I dont find Edmonton energetic.
    I thought this was as good as place as any to make my first post.

    I agree with this.
    I lived in Edmonton for almost 30 years and decided I needed a change. I took a job in Winnipeg and then Calgary where I have been ever since. I get up to Edmonton at least once a month for a few days and the one thing that strikes me is the lack of positive energy in Edmonton. Some of it is visual....due to the over abundance of visible infrastructure issues the city has with its main thoroughfares (ie....rusted out/ bent light posts, terrible road conditions, crumbling curbs and sidewalks). It looks like a city in a state of disrepair. These are things I rarely see (if at all) in Calgary. Then I walk around the heart of downtown (City Hall area) and I experience streets that are not people friendly, I see boarded up buildings on Jasper Ave and very little existence of unique shops and cafes....nothing even remotely close to people friendly Stephen Ave mall or the people friendly parks of Eau Claire in Calgary.
    This isn't intended as Edmonton bashing at all because I still consider Edmonton my hometown. I would just like to see the city be a little more conscious of it's shortcomings and have the vision to reach a little higher.
    guymez, welcome to C2E!

    Thank you for your comments. I agree with some of them but I think the times and the energy IS changing in Edmonton.

    Do we still have things to do? You bet.

    Are we working on them? Again, you bet.

    I think that Edmonton needs to be aware of its shortcomings if only in as how we can improve on them going forward...

    I also believe that more "big picture" visioning IS happening in Edmonton and from what I am hearing and experiencing Edmonton and Edmontonians ARE expanding our expectations as we strive for higher and higher standards.

    Case in point is the C2E forum, innovative and visionary this site has created an energy, passion and rhetoric vis-à-vis Edmonton that has never existed before.

    Thank you again for your observations and please keep posting to let us (Edmonton) know what you think of our efforts as every perspective is encouraged and required to take Edmonton to even better places!
    Thanks for the welcome.
    I understand what you're saying...there are indeed some positive changes taking place and obviously that is a good thing. I guess the question I have is why did the city let the main thoroughfares get as run down as they are? It seems to me that there is really no reason what-so-ever not to keep these roads maintained. Especially when I see areas like Capilano/Gold Bar where most if not all residential streets have new pavement, new curbs and new sidewalks. Meanwhile the most important roads in the city are for the most part, ignored. Perhaps you (or someone else) can shed some light on how these kind of decisions are made because quite frankly I find myself embarrassed when I bring people up from Calgary.
    BTW...I really like that downtown seems to be more of a priority for the city and look forward to the coming changes. The downtown should be a place Edmontonians are proud to take out-of-towners.
    It should be vital and vibrant, with plenty of people friendly streets.
    We shouldn't be reduced to driving around Old Strathcona and up and down the river valley when showing people the gems of the city.
    Anyway...this appears to be a good forum and I look forward to contributing in some small way.

  76. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by guymez
    Thanks for the welcome.
    I understand what you're saying...there are indeed some positive changes taking place and obviously that is a good thing. I guess the question I have is why did the city let the main thoroughfares get as run down as they are? It seems to me that there is really no reason what-so-ever not to keep these roads maintained. Especially when I see areas like Capilano/Gold Bar where most if not all residential streets have new pavement, new curbs and new sidewalks. Meanwhile the most important roads in the city are for the most part, ignored. Perhaps you (or someone else) can shed some light on how these kind of decisions are made because quite frankly I find myself embarrassed when I bring people up from Calgary.
    BTW...I really like that downtown seems to be more of a priority for the city and look forward to the coming changes. The downtown should be a place Edmontonians are proud to take out-of-towners.
    It should be vital and vibrant, with plenty of people friendly streets.
    We shouldn't be reduced to driving around Old Strathcona and up and down the river valley when showing people the gems of the city.
    Anyway...this appears to be a good forum and I look forward to contributing in some small way.
    guymez,

    I agree with you that the infrastructure in Edmonton is in a deplorable state and there is no excuse for it.

    Frankly the city was caught short (short sighted, short staffed and under funded) and we are only now STARTING to play catch up on things like roads.

    I, too have been embarrassed when I have been with visitors to Edmonton who ask if the roads are always this bad and when did it last snow (as Gateway boulevard had not been plowed) only to have to admit that yes, these days the roads are always this bad and it actually snowed----blank days ago.

    I also hope that downtown becomes even more of a priority, as it would be great to see more life and PEOPLE in the core.

    Glad you found the C2E forum and please do contribute whenever and whatever you can!

    Cheers,

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    I just got back from a short trip to Berlin, and I know as a city that has 800 hundred years to get where it is now, it cant be compared to Edmonton. I just think we could take a lot of ideas from cities like this.

    One thing that really struck me about Berlin was how walkable it was. Sidewalks along roads like Jasper ave. that are as wide as the street itself, with public art on almost every corner and trees and bushes lining it. Then along with that, if you were walking any long distance you didnt get bored because there were stores facing onto the streets, plenty of cafes with outdoor seating, etc.

    We don't need more skyscrapers or big apartment buildings, to create a downtown with more life, I think we need laws like cities here, saying that buildings can not be set back from the street, and that they must take up the whole lot, touching, so you dont have to walk a long distance, and it would create more density at the same time.

    (and as a lot of debate on this forum has been centred around H&M, id like to say its everywhere here, it pretty much goes, H&M - other store -H&M- other store and repeat)

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    ^bingo...we need better setbacks, more patios, more green, more art.
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    Alrighty... now for my time to rant about Edmontons downtown. I have so much to say I'm not even sure where to start. First of all, you people need to stop mentioned H & M as some amazing store that belongs in our downtown. It doesn't. H & M isn't anything amazing or special and it's not gonna end up on Jasper avenue anytime soon, nor should it. Second... other than some new trees and benches, maybe some nice lamposts etc in the Jasper Ave West region, the city shouldn't invest a single tax dollar into offering rebates or tax incentives to change the first floors of apartment buildings into new retail space. You want to revitalize downtown? That's your first mistake. Don't spread it out any further. Jasper West is meant for small retail and residential developments and that's the way it should remain.

    To those of you who think Jasper West requires support or funding should be thinking about the blight on our downtown that we now like to call East Downtown/Jasper East. You want a place that might benefit from some tax breaks or other incentives? This is exactly the place to do it. Our mayor has finally come up with a plan to do something about this (even though this is far from the first plan in Edmonton's history to clean it up) and NOW is the time to do something about it. Get to work, clean it up, fill in the empty lots... Tax dollars would be best used to clean up this part of downtown more than anywhere else. This land is PRIME property for a mix of residential and commercial interests, hopefully allowing for more people to move to the core of the city instead of the suburbs. This is a chance to show the World what kind of city Edmonton really is. A city that moves forward with bright ideas for new development and redevelopment in the downtown core.

    Everyone who keeps mentioning the need for more and more condos downtown are definitely on the right track. We don't need stores like H & M downtown to attract people, people are already moving downtown in droves. Those shops will come in their own sweet time but they're far from necesary to attract people downtown. In regards to the condos, we need quality construction and designs, not ugly towers like the ones built on 104st and 105st along 102ave. The only thing the one on 104st has going for it is the first 4 floors that were designed to look like the warehouse/loft brick style of buildings that already line 104st. Anyway, I'm getting off track... as I was saying, appropriate and attractive towers are a must.

    Eventually retail will come with beautiful new shops... but we have to give it a chance. The new Sobey's on Jasper and 104 is a prime example. There is a similar Sobey's in Vancouver and the vast majority of the customers live in the area. Parking will not be as big of an issue as everyone seems to suggest. Parking is available (empty ugly lots nearby) and if you're to cheap to pay for the parking or too lazy to walk, then you'll end up shopping somewhere else. Deal with it and stop complaining. As I was saying, as the population continues to grow in the downtown core, the retail will come. Some will stick to City Centre Mall, others will focus on other downtown locations such as along Jasper Ave. No matter what the situation, the retail will come... not to worry. Edmonton is finally moving in the right direction and the signs of new little businesses along Jasper Ave such as the new cafe (Axis I think it's called???) and the new grocery store... it will take time.

    One of the biggest issues for downtown is that the city needs to implement strict guidelines for the owers of those hideous gravel parking lots owned by companies like Impark. I swear those companies are owned by the devil himself. These lots should be paved (maintained of course) with attractive and appropriate lighting, should be required to have a certain percentage of the property designated for landscaping (trees, paths, etc... maybe +10%) and if the companies fail to comply then the city should do the work itself and bill the owners for the costs on their next taxes. And to the owners and developers of such hideous, garbage infested, dirty, pieces of lands, you should be embarassed for your lack of civic pride. The lack of parking isn't what is keeping Edmonton's downtown dead, it's the fact that we have these dirty empty lots that are full of garbage and crackheads and you risk your life everytime you even consider parking in these lots.

    The city MUST follow through with it's own bylaws when it comes to retail stores and businesses keeping their propery and businesses clean. I can't count the number of businesses downtown that have puke cooked onto the sidewalks in front of them. The city isn't responsible for cleaning up the sidewalks in front of these places, the businesses are responsible and should do their part. Yes, it's unpleasant and dirty and I don't want to clean it up either, but I also have no interest in shopping at your store if you're too lazy to clean up some vomit that has been there for the past 8 months. Businesses that don't do this should be fined, and if they still refuse to do it then the city should step in and bill the business or property owners for the work on their taxes.

    And just cause it's 4 in the morning and I lost my track of thought I think I'll end it with one last note (even though there are other threads that are dealing with this subject at the moment). Edmonton should definitely be looking into building a new arena on station lands. Yes... the development that was once planned for station lands would've been amazing, but I'm fairly confident that we will never see that land redeveloped as was originally invisioned almost a decade ago. While everyone keeps saying that a new arena downtown is a bad idea because it won't bring a constant stream of people downtown, I think that it is one of the best ideas and opportunities to even further kickstart a new chapter for Alberta's capital city. A new arena downtown would give a large boost for the redevelopment plans for East Downtown/Jasper East and if done properly (not another cement building please, c'mon... didn't I already mention the need for innovative designs for new construction?) a large mix of new commercial/retail developments could be included. Berhaps the lands that the Bacarat currently sit on could be added to create an even larger development than just the original station lands development. The new of development should include hotels, perhaps a new casino to replace the Bacarat, restaurants, offices, perhaps a new movie theatre, and plenty of residential condos, etc... in other words, rethink the original station lands plans with the condos and commercial towers to include a new arena on the station lands. And in terms of parking you might ask? How about a mix of underground parking, above ground park (parkade style with lower level retail and lots of landscaping/trees) and a significant public transit hub. There's talk of a new LRT line going along 104 ave and eventually out towards NAIT, wow... what a thought huh? This is exactly the way it should be done and if people are so concerned about how to fund such a project perhaps the city should actually borrow the money required for once, plus taxing businesses in the area who are going to benefit from all the new economic activity.

    So yes, I'm blitzed... off to bed finally, I'm sure I missed most of my original points that I wanted to make, and might even get some great criticism from you readers.

    Cheers,

    Carl

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    ^stands up, claps!


    "One of the biggest issues for downtown is that the city needs to implement strict guidelines for the owers of those hideous gravel parking lots owned by companies like Impark. I swear those companies are owned by the devil himself. These lots should be paved (maintained of course) with attractive and appropriate lighting, should be required to have a certain percentage of the property designated for landscaping (trees, paths, etc... maybe +10%) and if the companies fail to comply then the city should do the work itself and bill the owners for the costs on their next taxes. And to the owners and developers of such hideous, garbage infested, dirty, pieces of lands, you should be embarassed for your lack of civic pride. The lack of parking isn't what is keeping Edmonton's downtown dead, it's the fact that we have these dirty empty lots that are full of garbage and crackheads and you risk your life everytime you even consider parking in these lots."


    WRT impark lots et al....if they are in the "downtown core" they should be required to be paved, appropriate drainage, and landscaped.

    I am so sick and tired of the mud, dust, rocks, and how small town they look.

    IMPARK and the owners of the land (private) need to be forced to pave them if they are say within the downtown area.

    perhaps my biggest pet peeve in our city
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    AGREED... but why doesn't anyone else realize this? At least why don't the people who are able to do something about realize this? Ohhhh... that's right, cause they all park in underground heated parkades at city hall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder
    AGREED... but why doesn't anyone else realize this? At least why don't the people who are able to do something about realize this? Ohhhh... that's right, cause they all park in underground heated parkades at city hall.
    but private property makes it difficult and grandfathering may come into play. What they need to do is for any future renewals of permits, to include "paving", "drainage", and street fronting landscaping.
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    An even better idea than paving those parking lots:
    build new towers on them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    An even better idea than paving those parking lots:
    build new towers on them
    BINGO!


    Besides, have any of you tried getting someone to pave a lot in this city? I'm still trying to get a contractor to give me a quote, and I've been calling for over a year....

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder
    AGREED... but why doesn't anyone else realize this? At least why don't the people who are able to do something about realize this? Ohhhh... that's right, cause they all park in underground heated parkades at city hall.
    etownboarder,

    welcome to c2e...

    for a "first poster", you demonstrated a pretty good grasp on some pretty major issues pretty quickly. i will take some issue with "I'm fairly confident that we will never see that land redeveloped as was originally invisioned almost a decade ago" but not much otherwise and i won't repeat a thread you can peruse elsewhere on this forum.

    as to the parking lot issue, there are municipal requirements for parking lots in regard to paving and drainage and landscaping. there have also been some parking lot closures where meeting those standards was not particularly feasible. this has invariably been as a result of the owner receiving notice from the city so i can vouch for the fact there is some enforcement even if the end standards are still not yet good enough.

    maintenance of existing asphalt surfacing is more difficult to enforce (most are in as good condition as most city streets ). it is often the lack of sweeping and cleaning - particularly after a winter's worth of gravel and sand has been deposited - that is more of an issue than the paving or initial standards that have been met...

    as for impark, they are purely managers and any capital required for either new work or for maintenance work still has to come from the owners. if they aren't prepared to spend it or just don't have it, there is not much impark can do...

    ken

  86. #186
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    That wasn't exactly my point... While Impark manages these properties and owners are too damn cheap to do anything about their own properties, they enjoy charging large amounts of money to park there. Who cares if it's "too expensive" to meet the cities standards. How is that even remotely my problem? They either do it, or the city does it and charges them on their taxes. Great, so they can sell the property... but who wants to buy a gravel parking lot only to be forced by the city to invest some money into it? Either way, owners will be forced to make the changes required, or they'll sell the property to a developer for new condos etc... like many already have. And you mentioned that most parking lots already meet the cities standards and bylaws? Well then the city should pass new bylaws that raise the bar even more. Don't tell me it can't be done, cause it can... and should. Sure, owners could just walk away from the property... but then someone else would just be expected to make the required changes. Even if it's a bank, they would still have to meet the same requirements. The problem of gravel etc... on paved lots after the winter doesn't mean there aren't means to get it cleaned up. It just means that people are too cheap to do it in a timely manner, and that's because the city doesn't inforce it's own bylaws for removing snow, garbage etc... from property, especially in the downtown core it seems. Anyway, again... I'm just ranting on and on and I feel as if I've totally lost track of what I even intended to say, so I'll end it here. Ohhh... and to IanO and his point about the parking lots looking small town... There are dozens of small towns that have parking lots, even quite large parking lots that are kept in MUCH better shape. They're paved, landscaped, have decorative lighting, benches etc... AND THEY'RE SMALL TOWNS. So saying Edmonton's downtown looks smalltown cheap is an insult to small communities.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder
    That wasn't exactly my point...
    from another thread, i'd be interested in knowing whether this addresses your point?

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...?p=34772#34772

  88. #188
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    The parking lots have to be dealt with either now or soon, I agree that all these dirt lots have to be cleaned up. Also too it doesn't help when you have almost 1 or 2 city blocks next to each other that are all parking.

    Anyways, to jump back to the topic of the thread, Downtown Retail. It's probably been mentioned a while back on this thread but here again are my suggestions.

    - Hardware store (ex. Urban Style Home Depot)
    - Book store closer to the core
    - Toy Store, (maybe a scaled down version of Toys R Us)
    - 1 or 2 more walk in fast food restaurants
    - Along roads like RHW, speciality shops of all kinds.
    - Live Music venue with character (something that can somehow do what the sidetrack did for so many years)
    - Where there is room, restaurant patios on Jasper Ave.
    - Video rental store futher east in the downtown core.
    - A transportation terminal HUB where someone can go to catch a bus (ETS, St.Albert, Sherwood Park, etc...), LRT, Taxis, Greyhound shuttle. Also in this same location people can find out as much info they need to get around the city.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    I think we need pick a street that already has a few retailers and restauraunts and designate it walking only.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11
    - A transportation terminal HUB where someone can go to catch a bus (ETS, St.Albert, Sherwood Park, etc...), LRT, Taxis, Greyhound shuttle. Also in this same location people can find out as much info they need to get around the city.
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...opic.php?t=200

    totally agre!

  91. #191
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    Default Re: Downtown Retail

    So, I'm confused.

    Where is this "downtown" whereof we speak?

    Is it 104 Street? From where to where?

    Is it the area encompassed by 109 Street and 104 Avenue to 97 Street and 97 Avenue?

    Does it include Oliver up to 124 Street?

    Does it include Rossdale and/or Riverdale?

    Does it include the area between 104 Avenue and 107 Avenue or even 111 Avenue?

    In this thread it seems that any or all of these can apply depending on who is posting. With everyone focusing on a favored area, it's hard to reach a meaningful consensus.


    And when we're talking about a dirty downtown, what do we mean?

    Is it litter and cigarette butts, is it graffiti, is it urine and feces, is it dust and sand blowing in drifts, or is it mud on the street?

    Does it take different form depending on the location?

  92. #192

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    Here is a link to the Downtown Business Associations "Downtown Map", there are also maps that are broken down into districts such as the Arts District... http://edb.cricketworks.com/documents/dwntwnmap.pdf

    Good question!

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    Here is a link to the Downtown Business Associations "Downtown Map", there are also maps that are broken down into districts such as the Arts District... http://edb.cricketworks.com/documents/dwntwnmap.pdf

    Good question!
    This map helps me to refocus and somwhat shift what I considered as the "downtown" area. But it also illustrates that this encompasses an area that would cover several residential community neighborhoods and most of us would seldom consider walking from a residence near the leg to the Arts District or further east.

    Now here's another request. This map doesn't reflect the land use, is there a map somewhere that color codes the residential, retail, office, and greenspace distribution of the downtown area? It would help if this map also includes parking and transit routes.

  94. #194
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    said map is in the Downtown ARP...and not easy to find. Maybe I can post one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    This map helps me to refocus and somwhat shift what I considered as the "downtown" area. But it also illustrates that this encompasses an area that would cover several residential community neighborhoods and most of us would seldom consider walking from a residence near the leg to the Arts District or further east.


    I walk to the arts district from 120 St.... The downtown area is quite small.

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by m0nkyman
    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    This map helps me to refocus and somwhat shift what I considered as the "downtown" area. But it also illustrates that this encompasses an area that would cover several residential community neighborhoods and most of us would seldom consider walking from a residence near the leg to the Arts District or further east.


    I walk to the arts district from 120 St.... The downtown area is quite small.
    Yup. 124th to 101st twice a day. If the weather stays like this for the next 6 months it might just make up for the last 6.

    And to dwells earlier question, http://maps.edmonton.ca has good information on neighbourhoods and zoning. Its not exactly what you were looking for, but it could provide a useful starting point.

  97. #197
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    The map shows the formal definition of the "Downtown" neighborhood. In common man terms, downtown also encompasses Oliver and 107 Ave, just as the west end includes everything from the Valley Zoo to WEM and the north end is all north of the Yellowhead.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    ... and most of us would seldom consider walking from a residence near the leg to the Arts District or further east.
    Quote Originally Posted by m0nkyman
    I walk to the arts district from 120 St....
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled
    124th to 101st twice a day. If the weather stays like this for the next 6 months it might just make up for the last 6.
    At the risk of offending some people here, I applaud you and point out that you are exceptional and do not represent the majority of Edmontonians.

    In that vein, you walk that distance because you want to. Many of your neighbors would probably not think twice about taking the car to Oliver Square.

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    The map shows the formal definition of the "Downtown" neighborhood. In common man terms, downtown also encompasses Oliver and 107 Ave,
    That's the point my questions, SDM. A lot of misunderstanding and pointless arguments arise from focusing on different areas and assuming that everyone is looking at the same block.

    At one time the area east of 109 Street was considered downtown-west and Oliver was the west end. In fact, I was told that the Oliver swimming pool was once officially known as the West End Pool and was renamed sometime in the 1960s.

  100. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    ... and most of us would seldom consider walking from a residence near the leg to the Arts District or further east.
    Quote Originally Posted by m0nkyman
    I walk to the arts district from 120 St....
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled
    124th to 101st twice a day. If the weather stays like this for the next 6 months it might just make up for the last 6.
    At the risk of offending some people here, I applaud you and point out that you are exceptional and do not represent the majority of Edmontonians.

    In that vein, you walk that distance because you want to. Many of your neighbors would probably not think twice about taking the car to Oliver Square.
    I disagree with this. I have lived in and will return to living in Oliver some day soon. I find this is Edmontons closest resembelence to a walkable community.
    I lived on 115th street /102 ave for awhile, and would regularly walk to work and back (telus building) and walk to get my groceries, and visit friends. It was a rare exception that my car got used, and I loved that. Walks to work especially on nicer days, I could tell I was definitely not alone in this walking to work and back as the sidewalks were always busy with people walking to and from...

    **Outside of the Core, you dont find this in the suburbs much at all... as distance is very prohibitive of such a feat.

    This also occurs with people in the whyte ave (or north to sask drive) area working downtown or at the university.

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