And here begins the mass layoffs

[expat]

Shell Canada pulls application for Alberta heavy oil mine in latest blow to energy sector

...“Now, more than ever, we can see the serious economic, environmental and treaty rights issues in the region are affecting the status quo of business,” said the ACFN, which has launched numerous legal challenges of the regulatory process in the region and participated as interveners in the Pierre River project since 2007.

Canada’s big oil companies have slashed billions from their capital spending plans in recent months due to the drop in oil prices from more than $100 a barrel last year.

Last month, oilsands giant Cenovus Energy Inc. took $700 million out of its 2015 budget, released at the end of last year.

Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. reduced its 2015 budget by $2.4 billion, while Suncor Energy Inc. cut its workforce by 1,000 and its budget by $1 billion.

http://business.financialpost.com/20...energy-sector/

[envaneo]

The worst of all of this is when oil rebounds, they're going to have to rehire all of these laid off workers again costing even more money.

[Kitlope]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It almost applies.

[KC]

Alberta to bleed 31,800 jobs by end of year in oil price carnage | Financial Post

http://business.financialpost.com/20...price-carnage/

[nobleea]

We (oilfield service co with ~2500 employees in Edmonton region) are doing a temp furlough program. for 5 months we get paid 10% less, but get one unpaid day off every two weeks. A bunch more long weekends over the summer isn't the worst thing in the world. Better than rolling the russian roulette and seeing if you're the 1 in 10 that gets laid off.

[moahunter]

^that's a nice approach I think, you must work for a good company.

[nobleea]

^that's a nice approach I think, you must work for a good company.

This is in addition to laying 10-15% of the global workforce. So it's just the next step in cost cutting. If the price of oil hasn't recovered by then, there'll be more layoffs and/or an extension of the furlough system until the end of the year.

But yes, furloughs are preferable to more layoffs. I've always said I wanted to trade a raise for an extra week of holidays every year, now I get that even if temporarily.

[Kitlope]

Saskatchewan starting to hurt, layoffs (not so much mass layoffs) occurring everywhere.

Businesses in Estevan, Sask., reeling from oil price collapse

Estevan, the city at the centre of Saskatchewan's oil boom, is now grappling with a bust.

Early March is usually a busy period for drilling in southeastern Saskatchewan — right before the spring thaw.

That's because once the ground begins to soften, road bans force most oil companies to stop working for about six weeks.

But with the ground still frozen more than half of the drilling rigs in the province have already been shut down.

Small businesses that service oil companies in the area are reporting a 30 to 50 per cent drop in business.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...apse-1.2982962

[envaneo]

Mod yards here in Edmonton according to a colleague last night said they are importing steel from Korea because of cheap labour.

[Drumbones]

Asia means cheap labour envaneo. This is the reason they have been booming for the past 30 years and that there are hundreds of giant ships headed to ports worldwide loaded to the hilt as we speak. I'm hoping you knew about this before last night. lol

[envaneo]

^ Kind of, sort of.

My colleague works for Petro Can (I think) and is one of the people that get their Saturdays off.

[Drumbones]

I remember reading about a company having large steel products built in Asia, shipped across the Pacific Ocean and up the Columbia River at Portland inland to the Snake River and over to Lewiston, Idaho on the Snake. That's as far as the shipping channel goes. Then these huge items were trucked through Missoula, Great Falls, Sweetgrass and up to Ft. Mac and it was still a lot cheaper than having them built here. The funny thing about it is that ore is also being shipped their way from here. Crazy.

[envaneo]

^ How do you know all this (outside the obvious)?

[Kitlope]

It was all over the media. As Drumbones said, about 4 or 5 years ago they shipped a bunch of modded units to Alberta instead of tradesmen doing it here in Nisku. This was for an Exxon expansion up north I believe. Built in Korea, shipped by boat and once the trucks had to start moving them through some State Parks and National Forests, the locals freaked. Everything was shut-down until a solution could be had. In the end, they had to break down these modded units to even smaller pieces, something I'm sure they weren't designed for and easily done. And more trucks were probably used, costing even more. Eventually, it all made it's way to ft. Mac.

Says something though, between the cheap Asian steel, cheap Asian labour, send it across the Pacific by boat, then transport it by truck a couple thousand kilometers to northern Alberta, and even with the PR disaster and massive change of plans, they probably still made more money than having it done here.

[envaneo]

^ Thanks for that. Chances are then the steel put into Rogers Place arena is Korean. My colleague was saying last night that they got about 200 mods.

[Kitlope]

Truth is we get our fair share of Asian steel, have for a bit now and sometimes it can be absolute junk. As a matter of fact, a little birdie told me a few years ago that's the reason Trans Alta Sundance Generator #4 (I think it was #4) wasn't running for years as there was a big fight and lawsuit between the steel manufacturer and the company that installed the steel tubes. One said it was the lousy trade work and the other said it was the lousy steel. Not sure what came of it but that same guy I happened to work with last spring said that the particular unit was at least back online. Maybe that's why power has dropped a tad the last year or so.

And let's not get into German technology. Long story short, Agrium Redwater last spring got a Reaction Furnace built and lined in Germany, they flew it out in June on that big-assed Russian plane. That must have cost a few bucks. After hooking it up and bringing it online, they fired it up and all the refractory material failed in a few short days (this can happen with an improper bake-out procedure but that was not the case). Literally, it didn't even last a few days I was told, which is quite unheard of. Refractory material turned to powder. Voids and hot spots everywhere (which is a labour quality issue) when they gunnited it which in turn messes up the steel shell. I mean, this can get really expensive. And it did.

In the end, it was fixed by local boys, the plant was happy with the work they did (unfortunately, I had to turn down that particular job) and they're going after the Germans because there is a warranty to be had.

The good news is locally we got work out of the deal. And the company just might realize experienced, quality labour doesn't come cheap even for "just a pre-fab unit", although the whole german thing surprised me. Something you don't expect from them.

[Kitlope]

Here, did a search and found this.

Four Arrested in Idaho Fighting Exxon and the Megaloads

In the early hours of this fine Friday morning, folks in Moscow sent a direct message to Exxon and all future shippers of oversize tar-sands related equipment that no road should accept the movement of equipment being used in the genocide of First Nations communities and environmental destruction in Northern Alberta. In light of Exxon’s recent shift to using alternative Idaho roads and trucking smaller pieces of equipment, the protest in Moscow is a significant one. The issue isn’t simply just the beauty and integrity of Highway 12, but the need for all peoples to stand in solidarity with each other as we face the increasing torrent of environmental destruction here and around the world.

More on the story:

https://northernrockiesrisingtide.wo...the-megaloads/

[McBoo]

And just for the fun of it:

While pink slips are being handed out in the oil patch, the resumes are rolling in for the province's forestry industry.
A combination of new markets and a recovering U.S. economy are providing an injection of activity to the industry at the same time that many people laid off from the oil and gas sector are looking for work.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...inks-1.2983959

[howie]

^ Heh, and not a peep from Grim Jim about this. Wouldn't a premier want to put forth some positives amid the gloom and doom? Or . . .

[Kitlope]

Glad you brought it up Boo. I've sometimes forgot (and nobody in the media ever seems to want to mention it) that in some circles within the province, there's actually some industries than do benefit.

Simply put, America is starting to boom again and our softwood feeds that.

[Gemini]

Heard to day Finning had laid off it's workers in Ft. Mc and different shops throughout the province although the Edmonton facility is supposed to be doing real well.

[AAAAE]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/busine...0M72JE20150311

Saipem has laid off approximately 1000 workers from one of the fly-in fly-out facilities near Ft. McMurray.

[envaneo]

This was yesterdays news and Saipem said they would cover their transportation costs only after the media got a hold of the story.

[AAAAE]

This was yesterdays news

Can I not post something that happened just yesterday?

[envaneo]

^ Woaa, I'm not the moderator. You can post whatever you like as long as it gets past the moderators.

[ChrisD]

And just for the fun of it:

While pink slips are being handed out in the oil patch, the resumes are rolling in for the province's forestry industry.
A combination of new markets and a recovering U.S. economy are providing an injection of activity to the industry at the same time that many people laid off from the oil and gas sector are looking for work.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...inks-1.2983959

Yes, the forestry and agriculture sectors are poised to perform very well this year. In fact, they are hoping the slow down in the O&G sector will help them with their labour shortages.

[envaneo]

^ Alberta agriculture has labour shortages?

[wrcftw]

Seeing a lot of resumes from people from Enbridge these days...

[240GLT]

Quite a few power engineers out there looking as well. Most of the time it's industrial guys that are looking, but seeing more guys with commercial experience on the market lately

[envaneo]

We're sitting at 4.8% unemployment rate as of February, but that's going to change next month for sure. IMO the only way our economy will improve is if USA reduces its dependency on middle east oil and Keystone gets approved.

[KenL2]

We're sitting at 4.8% unemployment rate as of February, but that's going to change next month for sure. IMO the only way our economy will improve is if USA reduces its dependency on middle east oil and Keystone gets approved.

Keystone won't do very much for us in the long term, all it is is a really big and long extension cord to plug in to refineries in the US. I've said it before build upgraders and refineries and secondary / tertiary industries here. Keep the high end jobs here. If keystone gets built all that will be in the US we've been down this road many times over the decade's eek the high end operations, maintenance, engineering, service and sales jobs here!!!!!

[KenL2]

By the way I've been off work since December when this all started and it sucks not being able to find work no pipeline is gonna fix that. I spend 5 to 6 hours a day looking , phoning, networking, and applying for jobs and th there's just nothing out there. Very bleak

[ctzn-Ed]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/busine...0M72JE20150311

Saipem has laid off approximately 1000 workers from one of the fly-in fly-orut facilities near Ft. McMurr.

This hasnothing to do with economic turmoil. They got the boot from Husky due to poor performance. My scaffold company and and few others are in there now to replace them. It has been known for awhile now for us insiders. The Canadian division of Seipam is in financial distress.

[ChrisD]

^ Alberta agriculture has labour shortages?

The sector has been challenged from heavy duty mechanics, to labourers, to professionals and technical staff. There are many jobs available at companies such as Cargill or Agrium.

http://www.cargill.ca/en/careers/search/index.jsp
http://www.agrium.com/en/careers/job...ms_per_page=15

[expat]

By the way I've been off work since December when this all started and it sucks not being able to find work no pipeline is gonna fix that. I spend 5 to 6 hours a day looking , phoning, networking, and applying for jobs and th there's just nothing out there. Very bleak

Sorry to hear that mate. I know a couple of guys back in Alberta in the same boat, not nice... Though sometimes these setbacks can be a blessing in disguise as often as not something more exciting/lucrative can eventually turn up.

[envaneo]

I think we're going to be going back to the 1980's here. And yet the world still relies on Middle (terrorist) East Oil.Why do we have to buy Terrorist oil in the first place?

[Hilman]

Edmonton’s economy generates 4,800 new jobs in February

http://www.mailoutinteractive.com/In...Feb%202015.pdf

[jason403]

I think we're going to be going back to the 1980's here. And yet the world still relies on Middle (terrorist) East Oil.Why do we have to buy Terrorist oil in the first place?

That sounds like something an old person would say.

[Kitlope]

Edmonton’s economy generates 4,800 new jobs in February

http://www.mailoutinteractive.com/In...Feb%202015.pdf

But Alberta loses 14 000.

Alberta loses 14,000 jobs in February

The collapse in oil prices continues to hit Alberta’s labour market with employment in the province falling by 14,000 in February, pushing the unemployment rate up 0.8 percentage points to 5.3 per cent, the highest since September 2011, said Statistics Canada.

The federal agency reported Friday that employment losses were in a number of industries, but most notably in the natural resources sector which alone shed 7,000 positions last month.

Since hitting a peak in September 2014, employment in the sector has decreased by 20,000 jobs, or 11 per cent.

Other losses last month also occurred in the retail and wholesale trade; professional, scientific and technical services; as well as manufacturing sectors.

The Edmonton census metropolitan area saw its unemployment rate hold steady at 4.8 per cent in February, compared to January.

Edmonton-region jobs increased by 4,800, or 0.6 per cent, from January.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...150/story.html

[Hilman]

^ but Edmonton generated 4,800 jobs. Maybe try to be a little positive for once??? Your constant doom and gloom is getting nauseating.

[Kitlope]

Doom & Gloom? This is a mass layoff thread, if you don't like the facts, which is what I'm posting, don't click on the thread. If it's too depressing for you, go read something else.

Of course it's going to come off as doomy & gloomy, that's the nature when the economy starts tanking. You want me to put lipstick on this pig of low oil prices?

Here's an idea. Start a new thread, you can name it "And here come the job creations!" You'll probably hear a lot of crickets.

Please, get your head out of your arse. I don't like this either, but it's today's reality.

[rupikhalon001]

Seeing a lot of resumes from people from Enbridge these days...

Not unexpected. They laid off a bunch of IT people last year and have been bleeding people since then, Accenture is their solutions provider.

Along with WIPRO/ ATCO we may see more people being laid off unfortunately

[Hilman]

Doom & Gloom? This is a mass layoff thread, if you don't like the facts, which is what I'm posting, don't click on the thread. If it's too depressing for you, go read something else.

Of course it's going to come off as doomy & gloomy, that's the nature when the economy starts tanking. You want me to put lipstick on this pig of low oil prices?

Here's an idea. Start a new thread, you can name it "And here come the job creations!" You'll probably hear a lot of crickets.

Please, get your head out of your arse. I don't like this either, but it's today's reality.

Seems you only like facts when they are negative. Fact is Edmonton GAINED 4,800 jobs last month, great to see and points to more diversity here then most people think.

[ChrisD]

Doom & Gloom? This is a mass layoff thread, if you don't like the facts, which is what I'm posting, don't click on the thread. If it's too depressing for you, go read something else.

Of course it's going to come off as doomy & gloomy, that's the nature when the economy starts tanking. You want me to put lipstick on this pig of low oil prices?

Here's an idea. Start a new thread, you can name it "And here come the job creations!" You'll probably hear a lot of crickets.

Please, get your head out of your arse. I don't like this either, but it's today's reality.

Seems you only like facts when they are negative. Fact is Edmonton GAINED 4,800 jobs last month, great to see and points to more diversity here then most people think.

Yes indeed, Kitlope is a natural doomsday gloater. He/she must work for the Sun or something. Anyways, the fact that Edmonton gained jobs last month considering the layoffs that have been taking place over the past 6-8 weeks is a VERY positive sign. Is the provincial economy going to take it on the chin, yes. But will it be like 2009, highly unlikely considering it is only one sector of the economy that's getting beaten up right now.

[envaneo]

^ That is good news and I hope it continues. It also means more people will come to our city too look for work creating even more jobs.

[KC]

I think we're going to be going back to the 1980's here. And yet the world still relies on Middle (terrorist) East Oil.Why do we have to buy Terrorist oil in the first place?

That sounds like something an old person would say.

Hyperbole? Yes. Element of truth to it? Yes. Some wisdom only comes with experience, and some experience only comes with age or living in different ages. So it seems every second or third generation gets to forget the lessons and hardships of the past and then expresses total shock and dismay as history rhymes.

[Kitlope]

So because I didn't acknowledge how good it was that Edmonton gained 4800 jobs I'm a doomsday gloater. Ok, gotcha guys.

From now on, whenever somebody posts positive news I'll respond with "How wonderful!" and "That's just fabulous" and stuff of the like, so I don't come off as a doomsday gloater when I post the layoffs. Heaven forbid I post news stories pertaining to the thread title, which maybe I need to remind you guys that I started.

Again, if you don't like the nauseating thread, don't click on it. Please, be my guest and stay the F out. It's not rocket science, but apparently to some here it is.

And most importantly, when more of these large scale layoffs occur, I will post them.

Idiots.

[East McCauley]

Fact is Edmonton GAINED 4,800 jobs last month, great to see and points to more diversity here then most people think.

As John Rose points out in the interactive mailout above, labour force data for the Edmonton region is based on a three month moving average (February plus the previous two months), whereas the provincial data is for the month of February alone. The reason a three month average is used for the regional data is to avoid wild month to month fluctuations due to sampling errors.

It is not possible to know how many jobs were gained or lost in the Edmonton region for the month of February alone. The fact the three month average remains in positive territory is encouraging though.

[ctzn-Ed]

For those unfamiliar with the work force demographics up north... there are a lot of out of province and foreign workers, so, in terms of unemployment rate, this may not push the province's rate severely.

[envaneo]

^ Would be interesting to know how many tfw's leave during times like these.

[expat]

Yes indeed, Kitlope is a natural doomsday gloater. He/she must work for the Sun or something. Anyways, the fact that Edmonton gained jobs last month considering the layoffs that have been taking place over the past 6-8 weeks is a VERY positive sign. Is the provincial economy going to take it on the chin, yes. But will it be like 2009, highly unlikely considering it is only one sector of the economy that's getting beaten up right now.

Gloater? Hardly.... For real gloating one should cast one's mind back a year or so to when all was going swimmingly in a $100+ per barrel world, and the "Alberta puts on more jobs than the whole USA" type chest puffing pieces were doing the rounds both here and in the press... Now that was gloating.

"Pride comes before a fall", as they say.

[Swillv8]

Edmonton has a dozen mod yards that will be ramping up working in the next 2-4 months. I'm in aecons yard and for 2 contracts that will employ an additional 800 workers till summer 2016. This is nothing new however this could be 5000 plus high paying jobs in Edmonton that will contribute to our robust economy.

I do not think many people realize the importance of albertans manning these projects.in perspective. These projects are 50x more man hours in labour then keystone xl for albertas portion. High paying blue collar work at $40hr 50hr work weeks. This is all for the new northwest refinary phase 1

We as a province need to make sure phase 2&3 go ahead, this means less pipelines more upgraders and refineries here. Another project which will weather the global oil storm is Fort hills mine 13billion project. I just pray that we build modules local( on a note calgary has literally zero mod yard compared to 2-3dozen in Edmonton region employing thousands at any given time)

[envaneo]

^ I hope your right about Fort Hills. Suncor approved the project in February but now with oil at $45 WTI, if oil prices continue to slide, like Voyager, Fort Hills might also be put on the back burner.

[DanC]

^ I hope your right about Fort Hills. Suncor approved the project in February but now with oil at $45 WTI, if oil prices continue to slide, like Voyager, Fort Hills might also be put on the back burner.

Site works are underway and module assembly contracts are awarded.
it's full steam ahead at this point.

[envaneo]

^ The break even point apparently for any project regarding oil investment is $50 oil. Hopefully $45 oil is low tide of $50 oil price eb and flow.

[ChrisD]

^The reality is that these investments are intended to operate during multiple commodity cycles. It's not like they are designed to extract oil for 2-5 years and then are dismantled and moved elsewhere. These are longterm infrastructure investments that take years to plan, design and construct. Regarding the price of WTI, don't be surprised if we hit the high $30's within the next couple of weeks. Price stability is expected by June/July, but she'll be rocky for awhile.

[envaneo]

^ Its going to get worse before it gets better but $30 oil? I'd be surprised but as the days and weeks go by that could be a reality. I'm optimistic oil prices will rebound maybe not to $80-$100 but $60-70-ish seems realistic. The Sun is shinning above the clouds, somewhere.

[ctzn-Ed]

^ I hope your right about Fort Hills. Suncor approved the project in February but now with oil at $45 WTI, if oil prices continue to slide, like Voyager, Fort Hills might also be put on the back burner.

My company is entering this site in April. I have been asked by high management to transfer to this site to help set and start up. As ChrisD stated, this type of development is meant for longterm investment and built for that reason. These type of constructions cost billions and expect a duration of production for 50+ years.

[Marcel Petrin]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/busine...0M72JE20150311

Saipem has laid off approximately 1000 workers from one of the fly-in fly-orut facilities near Ft. McMurr.

This hasnothing to do with economic turmoil. They got the boot from Husky due to poor performance. My scaffold company and and few others are in there now to replace them. It has been known for awhile now for us insiders. The Canadian division of Seipam is in financial distress.

Someone mentioned to me that the problems on site go much further. This is just a rumor, but I was told that there were concerns of outright sabotage, not just shoddy/poor work. The whole thing is very, very strange.

^ The break even point apparently for any project regarding oil investment is $50 oil. Hopefully $45 oil is low tide of $50 oil price eb and flow.

No, it's not that simple at all. Every project has different economics. Completed projects have operating costs that are more like $20-30. New projects, including the cost of capital construction, are more like $50-70. Things aren't so simple that every single company and project in an entire massive industry have the exact same costs.

^ I hope your right about Fort Hills. Suncor approved the project in February but now with oil at $45 WTI, if oil prices continue to slide, like Voyager, Fort Hills might also be put on the back burner.

A very good friend of mine works at Suncor, basically in the department that reviews requests for funding for new projects, maintenance/upgrades on existing infrastructure, and so on. His group decides what goes ahead, and what doesn't. Or at least advises the top of the company on what should or shouldn't go ahead. Fort Hills is going ahead, and barring something pretty exceptional, that won't change. However they might turn the funding taps down a bit to stretch it out. But an outright cancellation is incredibly unlikely, as they're already 6 billion in to the project, or thereabouts.

[BalancedOP]

I agree MP. slowing the development could be a benefit and I am not hearing much on out right stopping some of the projects. I always said there was to much happening at once. But we did go though that a few times before.

As for the Husky site, it is very rare that you get turfed from a site and not get your equipment out as well. I am heading up tomorrow and it is still tough to get a flight, my usual flight was booked over a week ago.

I have a cousin at Shell, and he was indicating the only things that are being deferred are those that were over budget and they are waiting for costs to go down before they restart.

[ctzn-Ed]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/busine...0M72JE20150311

Saipem has laid off approximately 1000 workers from one of the fly-in fly-orut facilities near Ft. McMurr.

This hasnothing to do with economic turmoil. They got the boot from Husky due to poor performance. My scaffold company and and few others are in there now to replace them. It has been known for awhile now for us insiders. The Canadian division of Seipam is in financial distress.

Someone mentioned to me that the problems on site go much further. This is just a rumor, but I was told that there were concerns of outright sabotage, not just shoddy/poor work. The whole thing is very, very strange.

^ The break even point apparently for any project regarding oil investment is $50 oil. Hopefully $45 oil is low tide of $50 oil price eb and flow.

No, it's not that simple at all. Every project has different economics. Completed projects have operating costs that are more like $20-30. New projects, including the cost of capital construction, are more like $50-70. Things aren't so simple that every single company and project in an entire massive industry have the exact same costs.

^ I hope your right about Fort Hills. Suncor approved the project in February but now with oil at $45 WTI, if oil prices continue to slide, like Voyager, Fort Hills might also be put on the back burner.

A very good friend of mine works at Suncor, basically in the department that revie
ws requests for funding for new projects, maintenance/upgrades on existing infrastructure, and so on. His group decides what goes ahead, and what doesn't. Or at least advises the top of the company on what should or shouldn't go ahead. Fort Hills is going ahead, and barring something pretty exceptional, that won't change. However they might turn the funding taps down a bit to stretch it out. But an outright cancellation is incredibly unlikely, as they're already 6 billion in to the project, or thereabouts.

As far as sabotage is concerned, I'm not aware of that, but I can find out. I have not been onto site for about 3 weeks as I have been at m NYC residence and up in Edmonton for courses the last week. What I do know were poor performance, and failure of payment of wages to their employees.

[KenL2]

By the way I've been off work since December when this all started and it sucks not being able to find work no pipeline is gonna fix that. I spend 5 to 6 hours a day looking , phoning, networking, and applying for jobs and th there's just nothing out there. Very bleak

Sorry to hear that mate. I know a couple of guys back in Alberta in the same boat, not nice... Though sometimes these setbacks can be a blessing in disguise as often as not something more exciting/lucrative can eventually turn up.

That's whats keeping me going, I'm applying throughout the province, just very little in terms of responses, and when I do get one its, we love your resume, think you would be great for our company but the higher ups just can't justify hiring in this climate and we aer no longer hiring...

On average I'm getting 6 months to 2 years before they see a turnaround... so for me I'm thinking outside the box and moving towards a new career at the same time as looking in my existing field. In my work its a double edged sword, oil prices falling and HVE (High Value Engineering or off shoring the engineering work) I feel really bad for the kids just starting out having put in the work to get a degree only to have the work they would be doing sent off to other. more "profitable" locales ...

Right now in the Oil and Gas industry the best bet is Construction, Commissioning and Technical Sales, that can't be outsourced, but the dilbert design work, yes EPC's are being forced contractually to use HVE to lower the blended rate.

[KenL2]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/busine...0M72JE20150311

Saipem has laid off approximately 1000 workers from one of the fly-in fly-orut facilities near Ft. McMurr.

This hasnothing to do with economic turmoil. They got the boot from Husky due to poor performance. My scaffold company and and few others are in there now to replace them. It has been known for awhile now for us insiders. The Canadian division of Seipam is in financial distress.

Someone mentioned to me that the problems on site go much further. This is just a rumor, but I was told that there were concerns of outright sabotage, not just shoddy/poor work. The whole thing is very, very strange.

^ The break even point apparently for any project regarding oil investment is $50 oil. Hopefully $45 oil is low tide of $50 oil price eb and flow.

No, it's not that simple at all. Every project has different economics. Completed projects have operating costs that are more like $20-30. New projects, including the cost of capital construction, are more like $50-70. Things aren't so simple that every single company and project in an entire massive industry have the exact same costs.

^ I hope your right about Fort Hills. Suncor approved the project in February but now with oil at $45 WTI, if oil prices continue to slide, like Voyager, Fort Hills might also be put on the back burner.

A very good friend of mine works at Suncor, basically in the department that revie
ws requests for funding for new projects, maintenance/upgrades on existing infrastructure, and so on. His group decides what goes ahead, and what doesn't. Or at least advises the top of the company on what should or shouldn't go ahead. Fort Hills is going ahead, and barring something pretty exceptional, that won't change. However they might turn the funding taps down a bit to stretch it out. But an outright cancellation is incredibly unlikely, as they're already 6 billion in to the project, or thereabouts.

As far as sabotage is concerned, I'm not aware of that, but I can find out. I have not been onto site for about 3 weeks as I have been at m NYC residence and up in Edmonton for courses the last week. What I do know were poor performance, and failure of payment of wages to their employees.

Yes much of the Engineering work for FortHills is done and Construction is going forward.

[KenL2]

Edmonton has a dozen mod yards that will be ramping up working in the next 2-4 months. I'm in aecons yard and for 2 contracts that will employ an additional 800 workers till summer 2016. This is nothing new however this could be 5000 plus high paying jobs in Edmonton that will contribute to our robust economy.

I do not think many people realize the importance of albertans manning these projects.in perspective. These projects are 50x more man hours in labour then keystone xl for albertas portion. High paying blue collar work at $40hr 50hr work weeks. This is all for the new northwest refinary phase 1

We as a province need to make sure phase 2&3 go ahead, this means less pipelines more upgraders and refineries here. Another project which will weather the global oil storm is Fort hills mine 13billion project. I just pray that we build modules local( on a note calgary has literally zero mod yard compared to 2-3dozen in Edmonton region employing thousands at any given time)

This is EXACTLY why Keystone needs to die, these jobs would not be here at all if the pipeline is built they would be in Texas or Mexico, people need to understand the bigger picture, pipelines will pump work right out of alberta along with the Crude.

Building these upgraders here and later the refineries and all that goes with that is the best for our economy. I've explained this a million ways to saturday that this is the best way for the long term NOT pipelines, the world should buy the finished product from Alberta and Canada not the RAW resources.

I'm surprised so few see this

[envaneo]

Its possible oil could reach the $30 level before the end of the year. I recall in 1995 oil was at $16. At those prices you might just give oil away. Oil represents a very small portion of our national economy, so that's not too bad.

[Kitlope]

This is EXACTLY why Keystone needs to die, these jobs would not be here at all if the pipeline is built they would be in Texas or Mexico, people need to understand the bigger picture, pipelines will pump work right out of alberta along with the Crude.

Building these upgraders here and later the refineries and all that goes with that is the best for our economy. I've explained this a million ways to saturday that this is the best way for the long term NOT pipelines, the world should buy the finished product from Alberta and Canada not the RAW resources.

I'm surprised so few see this

Well said, Ken. I've been saying and explaining the same thing to many people for years now, even on these forums and many times I don't think people see the big picture, as you said. This reminds me of the BC issue with their raw logs getting shipped straight to the US and/or China for milling. A few jobs falling the timber and a truck driver to transport it, but the real jobs are at the mill. And then we get threads like "I'm Looking For Douglas Fir Lumber" .

Incredibly sad that we have Douglas Fir growing in our backyard but you can't purchase it. Or if you can, it's very expensive because it's been sold back to us from afar.

Bottom line is, the government gets a cut with a pipeline, the corporations get a cut with a pipeline, a few hundred jobs are created for a couple years (yippee!) but for the regular folk like the 99% of us it does nothing. No jobs and nothing to see - except for more empty Conservative promises that the money would really help.

[AAAAE]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle23494140/


Nexen to cut about 400 staff from head office. 350 in Calgary and the remainder in London, UK.

That is 13% of total staff.

[Kitlope]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle23494140/


Nexen to cut about 400 staff from head office. 350 in Calgary and the remainder in London, UK.

That is 13% of total staff.

Don't be such a Debbie Downer! According to some on this forum, we're not allowed to discuss mass layoffs in a mass layoff thread because it's nauseating!

Anyway, more bad news. 350 just in Calgary. That's a lot.

[Glenco]

Edmonton has a dozen mod yards that will be ramping up working in the next 2-4 months. I'm in aecons yard and for 2 contracts that will employ an additional 800 workers till summer 2016. This is nothing new however this could be 5000 plus high paying jobs in Edmonton that will contribute to our robust economy.

I do not think many people realize the importance of albertans manning these projects.in perspective. These projects are 50x more man hours in labour then keystone xl for albertas portion. High paying blue collar work at $40hr 50hr work weeks. This is all for the new northwest refinary phase 1

We as a province need to make sure phase 2&3 go ahead, this means less pipelines more upgraders and refineries here. Another project which will weather the global oil storm is Fort hills mine 13billion project. I just pray that we build modules local( on a note calgary has literally zero mod yard compared to 2-3dozen in Edmonton region employing thousands at any given time)

This is EXACTLY why Keystone needs to die, these jobs would not be here at all if the pipeline is built they would be in Texas or Mexico, people need to understand the bigger picture, pipelines will pump work right out of alberta along with the Crude.

Building these upgraders here and later the refineries and all that goes with that is the best for our economy. I've explained this a million ways to saturday that this is the best way for the long term NOT pipelines, the world should buy the finished product from Alberta and Canada not the RAW resources.

I'm surprised so few see this

Don't lets get carried away. The Northwest upgrader is by no means a certainty to be a success. If it struggles to be profitable then we the tax payers are going to on the hook. I certainly hope it succeeds but we have to wait and see what the unintended consequences are.
I don't believe it is an all or nothing sinario it is to simplistic. We can export bitumen and we can export refined products depending on what the market demands. We cannot tell people what they want to buy otherwise they will go else where.

[GranaryMan]

This is EXACTLY why Keystone needs to die, these jobs would not be here at all if the pipeline is built they would be in Texas or Mexico, people need to understand the bigger picture, pipelines will pump work right out of alberta along with the Crude.

Building these upgraders here and later the refineries and all that goes with that is the best for our economy. I've explained this a million ways to saturday that this is the best way for the long term NOT pipelines, the world should buy the finished product from Alberta and Canada not the RAW resources.

I'm surprised so few see this

Well said, Ken. I've been saying and explaining the same thing to many people for years now, even on these forums and many times I don't think people see the big picture, as you said. This reminds me of the BC issue with their raw logs getting shipped straight to the US and/or China for milling. A few jobs falling the timber and a truck driver to transport it, but the real jobs are at the mill. And then we get threads like "I'm Looking For Douglas Fir Lumber" .

Incredibly sad that we have Douglas Fir growing in our backyard but you can't purchase it. Or if you can, it's very expensive because it's been sold back to us from afar.

Bottom line is, the government gets a cut with a pipeline, the corporations get a cut with a pipeline, a few hundred jobs are created for a couple years (yippee!) but for the regular folk like the 99% of us it does nothing. No jobs and nothing to see - except for more empty Conservative promises that the money would really help.

Doesn't the province make the royalties off the raw oil instead of off the finished products which is why they have been trying to get the oil out of the province to be refined instead of fighting to build the refineries and chemical plants here?

[KenL2]

This is EXACTLY why Keystone needs to die, these jobs would not be here at all if the pipeline is built they would be in Texas or Mexico, people need to understand the bigger picture, pipelines will pump work right out of alberta along with the Crude.

Building these upgraders here and later the refineries and all that goes with that is the best for our economy. I've explained this a million ways to saturday that this is the best way for the long term NOT pipelines, the world should buy the finished product from Alberta and Canada not the RAW resources.

I'm surprised so few see this

Well said, Ken. I've been saying and explaining the same thing to many people for years now, even on these forums and many times I don't think people see the big picture, as you said. This reminds me of the BC issue with their raw logs getting shipped straight to the US and/or China for milling. A few jobs falling the timber and a truck driver to transport it, but the real jobs are at the mill. And then we get threads like "I'm Looking For Douglas Fir Lumber" .

Incredibly sad that we have Douglas Fir growing in our backyard but you can't purchase it. Or if you can, it's very expensive because it's been sold back to us from afar.

Bottom line is, the government gets a cut with a pipeline, the corporations get a cut with a pipeline, a few hundred jobs are created for a couple years (yippee!) but for the regular folk like the 99% of us it does nothing. No jobs and nothing to see - except for more empty Conservative promises that the money would really help.

Doesn't the province make the royalties off the raw oil instead of off the finished products which is why they have been trying to get the oil out of the province to be refined instead of fighting to build the refineries and chemical plants here?

Yes they make money off the raw product but taxes are levied all the way through the process, as well a pipeline will create way fewer jobs in the long run, way fewer service, engineering and maintenance jobs, this means less income tax collected. This adds to my point how many work at the Scotfordr complex? What do they make a year? Now how many jobs does Enbridge create or Kinder Morgan? Less earned in taxes, less cash in the economy, less expertise locally in the system, less service industry and engineering work.

[Bill]

KenL2 - are you in the engineering field?

[Glenco]

This is EXACTLY why Keystone needs to die, these jobs would not be here at all if the pipeline is built they would be in Texas or Mexico, people need to understand the bigger picture, pipelines will pump work right out of alberta along with the Crude.

Building these upgraders here and later the refineries and all that goes with that is the best for our economy. I've explained this a million ways to saturday that this is the best way for the long term NOT pipelines, the world should buy the finished product from Alberta and Canada not the RAW resources.

I'm surprised so few see this

Well said, Ken. I've been saying and explaining the same thing to many people for years now, even on these forums and many times I don't think people see the big picture, as you said. This reminds me of the BC issue with their raw logs getting shipped straight to the US and/or China for milling. A few jobs falling the timber and a truck driver to transport it, but the real jobs are at the mill. And then we get threads like "I'm Looking For Douglas Fir Lumber" .

Incredibly sad that we have Douglas Fir growing in our backyard but you can't purchase it. Or if you can, it's very expensive because it's been sold back to us from afar.

Bottom line is, the government gets a cut with a pipeline, the corporations get a cut with a pipeline, a few hundred jobs are created for a couple years (yippee!) but for the regular folk like the 99% of us it does nothing. No jobs and nothing to see - except for more empty Conservative promises that the money would really help.

Doesn't the province make the royalties off the raw oil instead of off the finished products which is why they have been trying to get the oil out of the province to be refined instead of fighting to build the refineries and chemical plants here?

Yes they make money off the raw product but taxes are levied all the way through the process, as well a pipeline will create way fewer jobs in the long run, way fewer service, engineering and maintenance jobs, this means less income tax collected. This adds to my point how many work at the Scotfordr complex? What do they make a year? Now how many jobs does Enbridge create or Kinder Morgan? Less earned in taxes, less cash in the economy, less expertise locally in the system, less service industry and engineering work.

The whole point of a pipeline is to sell our upstream resources. To focus on the economic benefits of the pipeline alone is redundant. How many people are employed in Alberta extracting these resources? A lot more than the mode of transport to get them to market.

[240GLT]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle23494140/


Nexen to cut about 400 staff from head office. 350 in Calgary and the remainder in London, UK.

That is 13% of total staff.

Don't be such a Debbie Downer! According to some on this forum, we're not allowed to discuss mass layoffs in a mass layoff thread because it's nauseating!

Anyway, more bad news. 350 just in Calgary. That's a lot.

And another 200 at Talisman today

[AAAAE]

200 person layoff at Conoco Phillips Canada

Most staff located in Calgary. 7% of total workforce. Turning out to be a bad week for our sister city.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle23516835/

[Kitlope]

Yup, just read it regarding Talisman. Here's the link:

Talisman cutting up to 200 jobs at Calgary head office

Calgary-based Talisman Energy Inc. is cutting as much as 15 per cent of its head office workforce as it reduces activity to contend with a collapse of crude prices.

Talisman is terminating 150 to 200 employees and contractors — of about 1,300 total workers in the city — company spokesman Brent Anderson said in an interview Tuesday. The producer is scaling back its budget by 30 per cent this year, he said.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin..._lsa=ab1d-d2e8

edit: Ninja'd me, AAAAE. A post about another one, but at Conoco.

Not a good last couple days in Calgary.

[AAAAE]

150 - 200 laidoff at Talisman

Indeed, here's the quote:

"Talisman is reducing its Calgary head-office staff by 10 per cent to 15 per cent, which equates to 150 to 200 employees, said spokesman Brent Anderson. None of the layoffs are a function of Talisman’s impending change of control from public to private hands, at least not yet, he said.

“Employees are receiving notifications this week,” Mr. Anderson said. “This is due solely to the decline in global commodity prices and our reduced capital budget for 2015.” " http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle23516835/

And another 200 at Talisman today

[EveB]

This is why Calgary tends to have much steeper hiring/firing cycles. You need people in the field to maintain the valuable equipment until the oil price thing is figured out. But you can empty out head offices in days.

Eve

[AAAAE]

This is why Calgary tends to have much steeper hiring/firing cycles. You need people in the field to maintain the valuable equipment until the oil price thing is figured out. But you can empty out head offices in days.

Eve

It does seem steep. This week alone nearly 1000 white collar jobs gone. And that is only what has been publicly announced.

[Kitlope]

Yeah, it's brutal. Just about every single one of these jobs is tied into a Calgary mortgage. All this, and as it continues, is going to start becoming a game changer.

As many of us here know, most layoffs are not publicly announced. As a matter of fact, just a few days ago I heard that when any employer in Alberta lays off 50 or more the company has to notify the province, hence this is how I think the media report's on larger layoffs.

And with oil now at $42.00 (and more than likely remaining low for the rest of the year) I still don't think we've seen anything yet.

[envaneo]

These days diversification is a key to survival it seems.

[ralph60]

In the last few years we saw an evolution in who was doing capital work in the region. We saw companies like Saipem, and quite a few others take on capital work for the Oil Sands. These guys brought in lots of out of province people and were doing a larger proportion of the capital work than ever before.
Our company worked as a sub to a lot of these companies and none of them were as good as the established Alberta firms.
Everybody in industrial construction in Alberta is aware of this.
There is enough maintenance work now at the existing level of development to keep most of Edmonton busy, regardless of the oil price.
This will chase a lot of the marginal companies out of the province and leave Edmonton healthier and stronger in the long run.
Downtown Calgary has been overstaffed and overpaid for years. There will be a huge shake out there as the big companies will shed their dead weight and the highly leveraged juniors like Southern Pacific and Conacher fall by the wayside. It will be a big blow to the City of Cows.
The impact here will hurt a few people but I think it will be surprising how resilient the Edmonton economy has become.

[Glenco]

Traditionally our economy trails their's by a year to eighteen months. Remains to be seen how it will effect our economy.

[EveB]

And that delay causes the dampening effect of a rolling average. There are still good times and bad times, but there are very few times when you and 200 or 300 of your coworkers are out of work on the very same day.

I worked in Calgary from 1990 and 2006. I must have seen (depending on definition) three or four of these massive downshifts. One month all the jobs pages are advertising jobs and the next month nothing. I was particularly startled one time when I was helping a colleague navigate the web listings for her system analyst husband. There was *nothing* there. And six months before there were dozens of ads in that field.

Eve

[SpongeG]

^ Would be interesting to know how many tfw's leave during times like these.

they have to leave don't they by april 1st? a few TFW's where i work are waiting to see what happens to them, they both applied to stay/immigrate but with all the changes recently they don't know whats happenning yet last I heard. they said april 1st is when a bunch of them will have to leave

either way the subway and the KFC where i go up until a couple months ago was about 90% filipino workers, now it's all what i would say are locals, and really young, there were two kids, couldn't have been older than 14 working at the KFC, no filipinos at all. I have noticed less and less filipinos around lately up near peace river where i am.

[envaneo]

^ I haven't heard about a specific date or anythig.

[KenL2]

In the last few years we saw an evolution in who was doing capital work in the region. We saw companies like Saipem, and quite a few others take on capital work for the Oil Sands. These guys brought in lots of out of province people and were doing a larger proportion of the capital work than ever before.
Our company worked as a sub to a lot of these companies and none of them were as good as the established Alberta firms.
Everybody in industrial construction in Alberta is aware of this.
There is enough maintenance work now at the existing level of development to keep most of Edmonton busy, regardless of the oil price.
This will chase a lot of the marginal companies out of the province and leave Edmonton healthier and stronger in the long run.
Downtown Calgary has been overstaffed and overpaid for years. There will be a huge shake out there as the big companies will shed their dead weight and the highly leveraged juniors like Southern Pacific and Conacher fall by the wayside. It will be a big blow to the City of Cows.
The impact here will hurt a few people but I think it will be surprising how resilient the Edmonton economy has become.

'In the long run yes, but being one of those hundreds of white collar Edmonton workers in the Oil Industry that was laid off, and having not found work yet this year, hardly even a job interview, it's not as diverified as you think, I know of home builders and all the industries involved in that laying people off. the ripple is felt everywhere. Calgary is worse granted, but we are hardly immune. The Company I worked for quietly laid off over 300 employees of its 2000, easily double that in Calgary, and the Client laid off publicly 1000 but I have heard inside the industry that it was closer to 4000.

Any way you slice it that is a lot of educated trades and white collar workers now competing for a lot fewer jobs. It is super tough out here

[ChrisD]

The reality is that we have become used to <5% unemployment for a long time. Increasing to 5-6% aligns us with other major cities such as Vancouver or Toronto. And the last time I remember things are doing well in those cities. So yes, for the next few years we'll have to adjust our expectations. A purge like this is a good thing, particularly for a rapid growth economy such as ours.

[richardW]

it will be fun when things ramp back up again and we hear the same old labour shortage stories again.

on a related note this is a great time to buy toys like ATV's motorcycles boats and other stuff on kijiji

[envaneo]

In the last few years we saw an evolution in who was doing capital work in the region. We saw companies like Saipem, and quite a few others take on capital work for the Oil Sands. These guys brought in lots of out of province people and were doing a larger proportion of the capital work than ever before.
Our company worked as a sub to a lot of these companies and none of them were as good as the established Alberta firms.
Everybody in industrial construction in Alberta is aware of this.
There is enough maintenance work now at the existing level of development to keep most of Edmonton busy, regardless of the oil price.
This will chase a lot of the marginal companies out of the province and leave Edmonton healthier and stronger in the long run.
Downtown Calgary has been overstaffed and overpaid for years. There will be a huge shake out there as the big companies will shed their dead weight and the highly leveraged juniors like Southern Pacific and Conacher fall by the wayside. It will be a big blow to the City of Cows.
The impact here will hurt a few people but I think it will be surprising how resilient the Edmonton economy has become.

'In the long run yes, but being one of those hundreds of white collar Edmonton workers in the Oil Industry that was laid off, and having not found work yet this year, hardly even a job interview, it's not as diverified as you think, I know of home builders and all the industries involved in that laying people off. the ripple is felt everywhere. Calgary is worse granted, but we are hardly immune. The Company I worked for quietly laid off over 300 employees of its 2000, easily double that in Calgary, and the Client laid off publicly 1000 but I have heard inside the industry that it was closer to 4000.

Any way you slice it that is a lot of educated trades and white collar workers now competing for a lot fewer jobs. It is super tough out here

I'm just musing out loud here and not replying to you specifically but I wonder how many of these $40/hr laid off oil patch workers/related, would settle for a minimum wage job? Probably not many. Hard to justify moving from a champagne & caviar life style to a baby duck & KD budget. I don't feel sorry for a lot of these laid off guys. They probably have a nice nest egg built up and a decent severance package and then they can draw ie and go on a course to upgrade their skills from there until the economy improves. That and they have a wife that makes a solid living in the private sector and or have family that can help them out. I wonder how many of these $120K salary guys are out there during this economic downturn that fit the above description?

[Drumbones]

I doubt too many have money, just have had more and higher payments.

[Marcel Petrin]

and a decent severance package

Doubtful. I assume you're talking about construction workers, since you specifically said "$40/hr oil patch workers". Construction workers are exempted from all notice requirements in Alberta, by law. If you're talking about office workers, then yes, most would be getting some sort of severance package. My friend at Suncor said that most that he's seen have been at least 3-6 months pay for people who'd only been there a couple years. Longer term people have been getting much more.

[Bodmanza]

Not the worst thing to restore balance to a job market that has been decidedly in the employee's favor for numerous years. I predict we actually see a quality increase in trade performance.

Marcel, regarding "law", you are referring to the Employment Standards. While technically you are correct that construction tradespersons will not be entitled to notice or pay in lieu, common law does override the standards and in many cases renders it useless.

[Gemini]

and a decent severance package

Doubtful. I assume you're talking about construction workers, since you specifically said "$40/hr oil patch workers". Construction workers are exempted from all notice requirements in Alberta, by law. If you're talking about office workers, then yes, most would be getting some sort of severance package. My friend at Suncor said that most that he's seen have been at least 3-6 months pay for people who'd only been there a couple years. Longer term people have been getting much more.

Not 100% sure but I think if someone gets a severance package don't they have to wait until the severance amount is used before they can collect E I.

[Bodmanza]

^it's rare for salary continuation to be paid on an ongoing basis nowadays from my experience. Generally it would be a lump sum, in which case it is reported on their Record of Employment which is submitted to Service Canada when terminated and factored into their earnings data used to calculate their entitlement.

[Gemini]

^Isn't a severance package considered as a lump sum?. If you also got laid off and were given your unused holiday pay I also think E I payments would be delayed until they were depleted. Fortunately I've only collected E I while on maternity leave so not sure of their procedures.

[Bodmanza]

^Isn't a severance package considered as a lump sum?. If you also got laid off and were given your unused holiday pay I also think E I payments would be delayed until they were depleted. Fortunately I've only collected E I while on maternity leave so not sure of their procedures.

Sorry, I see what you are saying now. Yes, the EI payments would be delayed by the amount of weeks which the severance and vacation pay equaled.

[envaneo]

^it's rare for salary continuation to be paid on an ongoing basis nowadays from my experience. Generally it would be a lump sum, in which case it is reported on their Record of Employment which is submitted to Service Canada when terminated and factored into their earnings data used to calculate their entitlement.

I worked in a call centre here in Edmonton since the year 2000. December 2012 (I saw this a few months before it was coming btw) Upper management closed the Edmonton office. I got my last cheque (paid weekly) then a nice lump sum vacation pay and then 16 weeks to sit on my ***** to do nothing. At the time this had nothing to do with oil. I even delayed getting my cpp at the time because of the buoyant industry I'm in. I got offered a job doing market research and worked there for 2 years until this Feb 26th. My wife has her job and we're barely cutting it as. I'm waiting to get on ei. For me taking a job at minimum wage, wouldn't be much of a hardship. However, for all of the people in the oil patch or trades people making the big bucks, how many of them would settle for a minimum wage job with all the payments they have to make to support their life style? In my case a severance package was paid out weekly because where I worked at the job we got paid every Friday.

[Kitlope]

However, for all of the people in the oil patch or trades people making the big bucks, how many of them would settle for a minimum wage job with all the payments they have to make to support their life style?

Not very many. They usually try to find a cash (side) job so they can still collect EI. First they'll sell their toys (basically anything with an internal combustion engine), even the large, sometimes oversized, Dodge pickup truck that probably still has years left of payments. Most will survive the first year without too much hassle as long as they sell their Jonses' goods and find some odd work. Depending if the girlfriend or wife has a decent job, they may even try to sell the house - but that shouldn't be an issue at this time for most.

It's the second year of a tanking economy when the real trouble starts.

[ChrisD]

^Or many of those who lived in other provinces will look for work in their respective province.