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Thread: R100 St Funicular/Stairway & Frederick G. Todd Lookout/Elevator/Stairwell - Complete

  1. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post

    ^If that's your biggest problem, that is fantastic. It was meant to be a destination AS WELL AS a people mover.
    It fails as a destination, and as a people mover. Fantastic indeed. It has the up-time and reliability of LRT escalators. What a waste of money. Once the novelty of this wears off, it won't be much of an attraction at all. I was supposed to help bring more people into the river valley, beyond the lookout. It's failing at that.
    I'm sorry good sir, but you are incorrect. It is quite well used, has a variety of spaces, seating, views, places, experiences and is functional over and above that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I've seen and been a part of a few corporate team-builder events revolving around the funicular and lookout point, so it's catching on. One was a stairs challenge, another was a pizza picnic. It was busy both of those times with walkers, parents with strollers, and people on bikes.



    Top_Dawg feels for you buddy.

    Don't you absolutely abhor those things ?

  3. #1103
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post

    ^If that's your biggest problem, that is fantastic. It was meant to be a destination AS WELL AS a people mover.
    It fails as a destination, and as a people mover. Fantastic indeed. It has the up-time and reliability of LRT escalators. What a waste of money. Once the novelty of this wears off, it won't be much of an attraction at all. I was supposed to help bring more people into the river valley, beyond the lookout. It's failing at that.
    I'm sorry good sir, but you are incorrect. It is quite well used, has a variety of spaces, seating, views, places, experiences and is functional over and above that.
    I don't disagree with you for the most part, but again, this was 30 million bucks. That's something like a quarter or a fifth of the way to a jumbo rec-center that the city has been building, which would undoubtedly see far more use. I can't help but feel it could have been better spent. And yes yes, there were strings attached that it had to do with the River Valley, but even then I feel like 30 million could perhaps have been spent better on multiple smaller projects throughout the valley. Even compared to the Terwillegar and Fort Edmonton foot bridges, which were both around 24-28 million, I feel like those are far better value than the funicular because they actually added new functionality as opposed to essentially duplicating it with Shaw a few hundred feet away. Not to mention that long term maintenance and operations for them will be a fraction of the funicular.

    But it's said and done, and it's well used so that's all to the good. But it's a good example of how often these targeted infrastructure programs from higher levels of government lead to less than optimal use of public dollars.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 13-08-2018 at 01:00 PM.

  4. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I've seen and been a part of a few corporate team-builder events revolving around the funicular and lookout point, so it's catching on. One was a stairs challenge, another was a pizza picnic. It was busy both of those times with walkers, parents with strollers, and people on bikes.



    Top_Dawg feels for you buddy.

    Don't you absolutely abhor those things ?
    They're not so bad if you're not busy. If you've got a hectic schedule cramming in 45 minutes of running stairs is kind of a day-ruiner though.

  5. #1105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post

    ^If that's your biggest problem, that is fantastic. It was meant to be a destination AS WELL AS a people mover.
    It fails as a destination, and as a people mover. Fantastic indeed. It has the up-time and reliability of LRT escalators. What a waste of money. Once the novelty of this wears off, it won't be much of an attraction at all. I was supposed to help bring more people into the river valley, beyond the lookout. It's failing at that.
    I'm sorry good sir, but you are incorrect. It is quite well used, has a variety of spaces, seating, views, places, experiences and is functional over and above that.
    I don't disagree with you for the most part, but again, this was 30 million bucks. That's something like a quarter or a fifth of the way to a jumbo rec-center that the city has been building, which would undoubtedly see far more use. I can't help but feel it could have been better spent. And yes yes, there were strings attached that it had to do with the River Valley, but even then I feel like 30 million could perhaps have been spent better on multiple smaller projects throughout the valley. Even compared to the Terwillegar and Fort Edmonton foot bridges, which were both around 24-28 million, I feel like those are far better value than the funicular because they actually added new functionality as opposed to essentially duplicating it with Shaw a few hundred feet away. Not to mention that long term maintenance and operations for them will be a fraction of the funicular.

    But it's said and done, and it's well used so that's all to the good. But it's a good example of how often these targeted infrastructure programs from higher levels of government lead to less than optimal use of public dollars.
    ... twas expensive, but included a bridge...
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  6. #1106

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    a bridge to nowhere...

  7. #1107

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    The funicular itself was about $5 million I believe.

    The staircase?

    The bridge?

    The elevator?

  8. #1108

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    Used the funicular Saturday evening after FolkFest. Super busy, about 10 cyclists with us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ... twas expensive, but included a bridge...
    That duplicates a pedestrian bridge 100m up the road: https://goo.gl/maps/8Kaok64KNXp

    So again, it's looks great and has become a destination in and of itself. That's good. But it duplicates existing infrastructure that is a few hundred feet away and does little or nothing to truly improve access to the river valley. I'm not crying over spilled milk here, but the money could absolutely have been better spent on something else in the River Valley, whether one large project or several smaller ones.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 13-08-2018 at 03:48 PM.

  10. #1110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a bridge to nowhere...
    A bridge to the elevator/stairs to the trail that leads to the Low Level bridge about a minute away. Anyone wanting to access the Muttart, Accidental Beach, or the Edmonton Ski Club/Folk Fest/Cloverdale Park, or anything else in the Cloverdale neighbourhood can readily do so by foot, bicycle, wheel chair, scooter, etc. And also a bridge to a great lookout, almost straight over the river.

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    Once the footbridge under the lrt is open again it will be busy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a bridge to nowhere...
    A bridge to the elevator/stairs to the trail that leads to the Low Level bridge about a minute away. Anyone wanting to access the Muttart, Accidental Beach, or the Edmonton Ski Club/Folk Fest/Cloverdale Park, or anything else in the Cloverdale neighbourhood can readily do so by foot, bicycle, wheel chair, scooter, etc. And also a bridge to a great lookout, almost straight over the river.
    Again, this use-case can be served by the Shaw with the addition of an elevator to the staircase I just linked to. It's pretty duplication, but duplication just the same.

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    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.

  14. #1114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.
    Also, the bridge to Shaw is a fair bit up the hill, where as the elevator from the lookout puts you at almost the same elevation as the Low Level Bridge. Less elevation change is important those with mobility issues, or small kids.
    Last edited by Ustauk; 13-08-2018 at 04:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.
    Shaw does have a bridge across Grierson Hill road. The point about events at Shaw is valid, though. Other then for maintenance, the outdoor funicular is accessible all day and early evening long.
    right, but that bridge only leads to a staircase or a situation where people have to cross traffic speeding down the hill.

  16. #1116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.
    Shaw does have a bridge across Grierson Hill road. The point about events at Shaw is valid, though. Other then for maintenance, the outdoor funicular is accessible all day and early evening long.
    right, but that bridge only leads to a staircase or a situation where people have to cross traffic speeding down the hill.
    I saw that after the fact and edited my post, sorry.

  17. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.
    Shaw does have a bridge across Grierson Hill road. The point about events at Shaw is valid, though. Other then for maintenance, the outdoor funicular is accessible all day and early evening long.
    right, but that bridge only leads to a staircase or a situation where people have to cross traffic speeding down the hill.
    Re-read #1112. As far as when events are on, that's a valid point, but there's also likely ways to have addressed it that didn't require spending 30 million dollars. As far as accessibility goes, that too isn't a trump card that automatically justifies the expenditure. There are numerous more accessible places to enjoy the river valley for those that have mobility issues. Basically every park in the river valley, really, is easily accessible with nearby parking lots and/or transit. And I hardly think there's a large number of people with mobility issues that are using this and the low level bridge to get to Folk Fest, Cloverdale, Muttart and so on. That's frankly ridiculous, when all of those venues already have mobility access.

    Again, I'm not saying it's the end of the world. But I do think we got very poor value for the money spent on what amounts to a photo venue. And that's as much due to how the funding was structured as anything. "Quick, spend the money before it goes poof!" does not often lead to the best outcomes.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 13-08-2018 at 05:06 PM.

  18. #1118
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    Decided to use the Funicular Elevator-plateau-Funicular to get out of the valley tonight on my ride and it was quite busy. Multiple groups from the various hotels exploring and a lot of locals, many with bikes/strollers, others running the stairs or just lounging.
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  19. #1119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ... twas expensive, but included a bridge...
    That duplicates a pedestrian bridge 100m up the road: https://goo.gl/maps/8Kaok64KNXp

    So again, it's looks great and has become a destination in and of itself. That's good. But it duplicates existing infrastructure that is a few hundred feet away and does little or nothing to truly improve access to the river valley. I'm not crying over spilled milk here, but the money could absolutely have been better spent on something else in the River Valley, whether one large project or several smaller ones.
    Lots of redundant crosswalks / lights / plus15s downtown too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ... twas expensive, but included a bridge...
    That duplicates a pedestrian bridge 100m up the road: https://goo.gl/maps/8Kaok64KNXp

    So again, it's looks great and has become a destination in and of itself. That's good. But it duplicates existing infrastructure that is a few hundred feet away and does little or nothing to truly improve access to the river valley. I'm not crying over spilled milk here, but the money could absolutely have been better spent on something else in the River Valley, whether one large project or several smaller ones.
    Lots of redundant crosswalks / lights / plus15s downtown too.
    Crosswalks and lights don't cost 30 million per, and pedways are paid for by private developers.

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    Narrow rail for bicycles among the ups and downs of Edmonton's new funicular

    No timeline has been given on when the changes to the bike rails will be made.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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  23. #1123

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    Yeah back in December we almost hit the emergency stop button by accident. Minor adjustments.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  24. #1124
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    3 week funicular closure to 'revamp' it for safety and accessibility.
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  25. #1125

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    Any reports on what the funicular usage was during the Grey Cup? Would be a neat thing for tourists to check out but I didn't see it hilited anywhere as something to check out. Wednesday night all of the Lower SCC floors were shutoff to the public so did not venture down into the area to see. I presume people taking zipline down had to walk back up SCC outside stairs?

    This thing seems to be closed a lot even in the first years of its operation.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    ^there was a shuttle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Any reports on what the funicular usage was during the Grey Cup? Would be a neat thing for tourists to check out but I didn't see it hilited anywhere as something to check out. Wednesday night all of the Lower SCC floors were shutoff to the public so did not venture down into the area to see. I presume people taking zipline down had to walk back up SCC outside stairs?

    This thing seems to be closed a lot even in the first years of its operation.
    It’s a glorified escalator in Edmonton, of course it’s broken down. :P

  28. #1128

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    Amazing how many C2E posters predicted that maintenance and long delays in repairs were going to be an issue since the COE has a poor record in maintaining other elevators and escalators.

    The one thing that the COE does do well is, being consistent. Consistently poor.
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  29. #1129

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    But look at those new light standards on Jasper! Aren't they spiffy! You've got to have priorities after all.

  30. #1130

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    Ohhh ahhh
    Bright shining lights ...
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  31. #1131

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    And don't forget the fancy sidewalks. If you can see them through the garbage and vomit that is.

  32. #1132

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    Despite all the negativity on here, I gotta say that I still absolutely love this project. I have lots of family and friends from out of town that come to visit and this is one we take them to regularly, with a wee stop at the Mac for drinks on the patio (in the summer). The funicular has always worked when we are there, and the responses I have heard (even just from other passengers and passersby) have been almost exclusively positive.

    Just sayin'
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  33. #1133

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    I took my dad, who uses a scooter, downtown and we used the funicular to get up the bank and back down to Louise McKinney park where we had parked. We really enjoyed it and thought it was a good addition to downtown.

    The new lights and sidewalks, not so much. He did comment on how much litter there was and how full the trash cans were.

    I can tell you this much, regardless of the claim on the DBA website, he didn't want to go downtown to see the lights and sidewalks.

  34. #1134
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    Tis a fantastic project that simply needs to work out its kinks.
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  35. #1135

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    Like the Metro line...
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  36. #1136

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    Most people complaining about the down time are referring to it taking a long time for them to make the elevator from the lookout work properly. The funicular itself has mostly had up-time; its more of a relatively simple cable car, not a complicated escalator. And much of the time its been down has had less to do with the mechanics and more to do with people; eg. people hitting the emergency stop button when they shouldn't have, and fixing up graffiti damage. It seems like a good time to do the maintenance; we're past the Grey Cup, well before Christmas, and the weather isn't to onerous for whoever is working on it.

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    Why are there jerks that like to trash everything nice in Edmonton?
    Last edited by The_Cat; 28-11-2018 at 03:38 PM.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  38. #1138

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    Because we like things that werk...
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  39. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Because we like things that werk...
    Have you used it or even seen it in person?
    Aren't you in Montreal?

  40. #1140

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    Went to see it on Sept 7th.

    I like it but $25M is a huge amount of money for such a limited project.

    Would have rather used the $25M to build a gondola from Rodgers to Whyte. The views from the gondola would be multiple times better than the funicular.
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    "we like things that work" is a garbage reason for why people vandalize. You like things that work? Why sabotage them?

  42. #1142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Because we like things that werk...
    Like all the urban PRT systems in the world.

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    It just makes me angry to see escalators or elevators broken down every two weeks, which seems to be more than the result of wear and tear.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  44. #1144

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    Wear and tear, what a lame excuse.

    I was in New York again recently. The Macy's escalators are still working hard every day for the past 100 YEARS!

    BTW they are made of WOOD!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qIND_KvyZ5Y
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  45. #1145
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    You love comparing things that only have the most minute of similarities don't ya?

  46. #1146

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    Right, KK mentions PRT but you say nothing.

    The_Cat mentions the maintenance of the funicular and escalators in the city. I compare two escalators...

    BTW,

    As of November 2016, only a handful of PRT systems are operational: Morgantown Personal Rapid Transit (the oldest and most extensive), in Morgantown, West Virginia, has been in continuous operation since 1975. West Virginia University's system serves a number of popular destinations throughout the city. Since 2010 a 10-vehicle 2getthere system has operated at Masdar City, UAE, and since 2011 a 21-vehicle Ultra PRT system has run at London Heathrow Airport. A 40-vehicle Vectus system with in-line stations officially opened in Suncheon, South Korea, in April 2014 after a year of testing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit

    Not so bad since driverless cars have had billions of dollars in financial investment and you still don't see a single one beyond testing.

    Experiments have been conducted on automating driving since at least the 1920s; trials began in the 1950s. The first truly automated car was developed in 1977, by Japan's Tsukuba Mechanical Engineering Laboratory.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-driving_car


    Now let's get back on the subject rather that trying to assassinate my character.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 28-11-2018 at 07:19 PM.
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    It’s due to the gravel, sand and salt being brought in on shoes and boots. This stuff gets into the workings of these machines here in this winter city. Maybe we’ll have to take our boots off to ride so it won’t break down

  48. #1148
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    https://twitter.com/LydiaNeufeldCBC/...26719174672389

    Lydia Neufeld‏ @LydiaNeufeldCBC
    Cyclists rejoice! Bike rails on stairs beside funicular being made so they actually do the job!!

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  49. #1149
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    https://twitter.com/CityofEdmonton/s...41196309655552

    City of Edmonton‏ @CityofEdmonton
    Enhancement work on the Funicular is over halfway complete! Right now, we are waiting for delivery of the new glass roof. In the meantime, we reopened for public use. It will be out of service again for a few days starting next week as we complete this project.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    City releases report on first year of funicular operations

    The City of Edmonton has released their first year-in-review update for the Funicular.
    According to the report, taxpayers paid a total of $716,468 for the site, which operates daily between 7 a.m. and 9 p.m.

    The majority of the costs were for repairs and maintenance, with $345,483 going to preventative maintenance and daily start-up costs, and another $112,641 going to non-emergency breakdown response and repair.

    Another major cost was security, which cost $90,117 for site services and monitoring, and an additional $6,536 in security guard support.

    The city also spent $34,118 in snow clearing at the site, and $31,186 in janitorial services.

    A survey conducted by the city found that only 14 per cent of the population reported using the service, but 46 per cent of residents reported that they intend to visit the site.

    The survey also found that 22 per cent of visitors use the funicular as part of their commute, 35 per cent of visitors have been using the funicular for six months or more, and 31 per cent use the funicular to access the river valley.

    The report also noted that city staff responded to approximately 550 incident alarms between December 2017 and November 2018, the second highest number of alarms recorded at a city site.

    About 57 per cent of the alarms resulted from passengers pressing the emergency stop button. These incidents resulted in temporary stoppages that were resolved when the system was reset.

    Another 20 per cent of alarms were the result of door malfunctions, heavy winds, or too many passengers.

    An additional 20 per cent of alarms were system failures.

    Only three per cent of alarms were a result of incidents in the elevator.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Why is it stated as "only" 14% of the population used the service. What percentage of the city uses the Central Library, or Rogers place, or churchill square, or more comparably any random park in the city?

    A service doesn't need to be used to the whole city for it to be useful.

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    I knew there would be damage to that glass, fifty thousand each time to replace it..what a damn shame idiots have to vandalize things

  53. #1153

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Why is it stated as "only" 14% of the population used the service. What percentage of the city uses the Central Library, or Rogers place, or churchill square, or more comparably any random park in the city?

    A service doesn't need to be used to the whole city for it to be useful.
    Or is that 1.4% who used it 10 times? Crazy statistic manipulation.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  54. #1154

    Default

    Or IanO riding up and back all day?

  55. #1155

    Default

    ...and pushing that darn emergency button all the time
    ..
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  56. #1156
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    32,108

    Default











    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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