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Thread: River Valley Mechanized Access/Funicular | Under Construction

  1. #1001

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Paula Simons et al need to take a deep breath and give this thing a chance. Her column this morning is like reviewing a restaurant the first week it's open.... give it time to work out the kinks before you start criticizing.
    She makes some good points but is a bit confused, or has confused me, as she talks about both the funicular and the elevator but says the funicular is ridiculous when it’s the elevator that is out of commission due to mechanical problems while the funicular is apparently operating as designed.

    However she says this: “The funicular also gets finicky when it’s too snowy and windy. And so it too keeps malfunctioning.” That seems like something with an easy fix. Then the problem with the buttons sounds like a signage issue.

    Now, the funicular might not operate below -25 but how many people with mobility problems will seek to go down into the valley at -25 or lower? Yes universal 24/7/365 access would be nice but at what added cost and what added benefit? (Eg we don’t run all our buses on all their routes all the time).

    Paying $5 million for the funicular might not have been enough for premium service but at that it was broadly criticized.


    Mechanical woes taking all the fun out of Edmonton’s funicular | Edmonton Journal

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...downs-than-ups
    Last edited by KC; 06-03-2018 at 09:06 AM.

  2. #1002

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Paula Simons et al need to take a deep breath and give this thing a chance. Her column this morning is like reviewing a restaurant the first week it's open.... give it time to work out the kinks before you start criticizing.
    Just like the Metro line - working out the kinks....

  3. #1003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Yeah I don't remember jumping in elevators ever being a thing decades ago. Stop button on escalators was always happening.

    But this is kind of the problem with such out of sight infrastructure and what is NOT on site security. By the time any security responds to a disturbance its done. WE can't have one rent a cop immediately stationed and patrolling the infrastructure?



    Yeah, Top_Dawg loves it.

    How old is this thing ?

    Three months ?

    Classic.

    So where are all the chin strap dildos who said there would be no problems with mischief, vandalism, and deliberate misuse ?


  4. #1004

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    Adding in costs per article below - so I’ve got $6.5 million out of $24 million. That’s 27% of the total project cost so far that could be blamed on the mobility impaired needs. (Including people trying to get their bikes, strollers, etc up the bank.)

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...downs-than-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    $24mil, COE contribution $1.7.
    That includes the staircase next to it too doesn’t it? Didn't this project essentially include four pieces with justification for the funicular being the need for accessibility for all?

    1) a funicular: $5 million
    2) a staircase or two: ____$?_____
    3) a shared walkway(overpass)
    - 50% for the funicular users: ____$?_____
    - 50% for the staircase users: ____$?_____
    4) an elevator - $1.5 million

    ========
    $24 million
    ___________

    So what was the cost of the funicular itself?
    (Though, I guess the elevator should also be included as that’s also necessary for full accessibility. )

    In the future ridership/total user numbers should be able to allocate notional values of the bridge/walkway between needed for funicular users and needed for able bodied.
    Last edited by KC; 06-03-2018 at 09:21 AM.

  5. #1005

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Yeah I don't remember jumping in elevators ever being a thing decades ago. Stop button on escalators was always happening.

    But this is kind of the problem with such out of sight infrastructure and what is NOT on site security. By the time any security responds to a disturbance its done. WE can't have one rent a cop immediately stationed and patrolling the infrastructure?



    Yeah, Top_Dawg loves it.

    How old is this thing ?

    Three months ?

    Classic.

    So where are all the chin strap dildos who said there would be no problems with mischief, vandalism, and deliberate misuse ?

    Yeah, no good deed goes unpunished or un-criticized.

  6. #1006

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Paula Simons et al need to take a deep breath and give this thing a chance. Her column this morning is like reviewing a restaurant the first week it's open.... give it time to work out the kinks before you start criticizing.
    How much time is required?

    This thing has been in total operation only 2 days out of the whole time its been open. Just ridiculous. The elevator at the bottom is once again closed indefinitely.

    What is absolutely becoming clear is that a system designed to get handicapped or mobility lacking people to the river valley is impossible to depend on. What happens if somebody with mobility impairment gets stuck somewhere on route with cold weather. What is the emergency response time to help such people?

    This is also being touted as a way for cyclists, river trail users etc to get up and down. it is difficult to carry a bike up the stairs, there are very few bike locks at the bottom, and people could be stuck at the top or bottom of this system unexpectedly.

    For this complete system to be open only 2 days so far is a complete joke. Theres no timeline on when the elevator will actually be reopened. Do we miss another summer of use of this system?

    This system is not a reliable conveyance. Its not going to build up ridership if its seen as haphazard, mostly out of service.

    It sucks as well that the elevator portion will not be in operation for the Red Bull event wherein a lot of tourists might check out the funicular line and want to take the trip all the way to the river valley.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  7. #1007

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Yeah I don't remember jumping in elevators ever being a thing decades ago. Stop button on escalators was always happening.

    But this is kind of the problem with such out of sight infrastructure and what is NOT on site security. By the time any security responds to a disturbance its done. WE can't have one rent a cop immediately stationed and patrolling the infrastructure?



    Yeah, Top_Dawg loves it.

    How old is this thing ?

    Three months ?

    Classic.

    So where are all the chin strap dildos who said there would be no problems with mischief, vandalism, and deliberate misuse ?

    Yep, and you remember we were talking about this very thing. We can't have nice unsupervised things in the River Valley. This was imminently clear with any view of the denizens that were frequenting this very area prior to the funicular being built.

    lol that it turns out that the manufacturer makes mostly funiculars that have an operator (seems like a good idea for the area in question) and the city, in a supposed cost saving gesture specifically demanded the unmanned product. The one that wouldn't have somebody operating it and preventing most of the problems that have been happening.

    Ultimately I can already see whats going to happen here. There will be no choice but the city to hire an operator just to stand around and make sure people aren't screwing with the buttons, and another patrolling or staffing the lower elevator. The city will reduce operational hours due to staffing costs and to ***** proof this system.
    So that the city thought they saved money buying the more expensive (automatic) funicular option but will now invariably have to eat added staffing costs on this as well. For however long they feel like running this gadget until they moth ball it again.

    The last Funicular Edmonton had ran about 5yrs. Was almost totally forgot about that Edmonton ever had one until they decided to build this one. Whats the over/under on how long this one survives COE operational cuts.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  8. #1008

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    Almost every 'bright new idea' this city council and management has turns to ****. We've seen it here, we've seen it with bike lanes, bridges, and LRT. We're seeing it now with the city hall community pool and proposed river valley development that will likely go through. But Edmontonians basically ask for it. They never sufficiently punish their reps at the ballot box.

  9. #1009

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    ^ Agreed

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  10. #1010

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Almost every 'bright new idea' this city council and management has turns to ****. We've seen it here, we've seen it with bike lanes, bridges, and LRT. We're seeing it now with the city hall community pool and proposed river valley development that will likely go through. But Edmontonians basically ask for it. They never sufficiently punish their reps at the ballot box.
    Have you ever considered that perhaps - just perhaps - this is because the majority of people don't agree with you? Shocking thought, I know.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  11. #1011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Paula Simons et al need to take a deep breath and give this thing a chance. Her column this morning is like reviewing a restaurant the first week it's open.... give it time to work out the kinks before you start criticizing.
    How much time is required?

    This thing has been in total operation only 2 days out of the whole time its been open. Just ridiculous. The elevator at the bottom is once again closed indefinitely.

    What is absolutely becoming clear is that a system designed to get handicapped or mobility lacking people to the river valley is impossible to depend on. What happens if somebody with mobility impairment gets stuck somewhere on route with cold weather. What is the emergency response time to help such people?

    This is also being touted as a way for cyclists, river trail users etc to get up and down. it is difficult to carry a bike up the stairs, there are very few bike locks at the bottom, and people could be stuck at the top or bottom of this system unexpectedly.

    For this complete system to be open only 2 days so far is a complete joke. Theres no timeline on when the elevator will actually be reopened. Do we miss another summer of use of this system?

    This system is not a reliable conveyance. Its not going to build up ridership if its seen as haphazard, mostly out of service.

    It sucks as well that the elevator portion will not be in operation for the Red Bull event wherein a lot of tourists might check out the funicular line and want to take the trip all the way to the river valley.
    This is our first system of this type in our city, so I would argue a little more than a couple of months (especially when it's in the middle of winter) is warranted. I certainly don't think that it is "absolutely becoming clear" this system can't be depended on. This is a fairly complex machine that started operating in the middle of winter. Let's just give it a bit of time before we bring out the pitchforks and torches, shall we?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  12. #1012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ Agreed

    Yes, but this does not get to the core admin of this Civic Administration which is unelected, inefficient, noncommunicative, unhelpful, and tenured. Its the administrative end that seems to be the worst and that are involved in the chronic bad decisions which perpetuate through elected City councils.

    We don't even impact what is most rotten to the core at COE. We chip away at it. A firing here and there, a Farbrother canned. But the disease remains very much intact in the closed shop COE.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  13. #1013

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Almost every 'bright new idea' this city council and management has turns to ****. We've seen it here, we've seen it with bike lanes, bridges, and LRT. We're seeing it now with the city hall community pool and proposed river valley development that will likely go through. But Edmontonians basically ask for it. They never sufficiently punish their reps at the ballot box.
    Have you ever considered that perhaps - just perhaps - this is because the majority of people don't agree with you? Shocking thought, I know.
    If only it was a matter of opinion. If only. But so often I'm proven right.

    I knew the painted bike lanes they installed years ago were a bad idea. They nonetheless spent millions putting them in and then, yes, later taking them out.

    I had reservations about the suicide barriers on the high level, though I am sympathetic and understand why they did it. But of course city council disappointed me by screwing it up and making the bridge sidewalk narrower and terrible to bike on.

    I knew it was absolutely stupid to have year-round 'playground zones' throughout the city where you have to slow down or get a ticket. I swear to god, outside of school I almost literally never see kids on playgrounds in the winter, much less the ones that are next to my place. Much less in the dark evenings.

    If I had more time, I'd go on. I could right an essay, for instance, on the traffic calming schemes in this city. But I have noticed one commonality to all this. Usually, the things that turn out the worst are those that are done at the behest of a special interest group and that generally ignore the wishes of the majority.

  14. #1014

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    And let me guess, the 'special interest' groups you speak off are pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you and 'the majority' are people who do agree with you. I've met a lot of people over my years who believe things are not 'a matter of opinion' and that they are always proven right on things. All I can say is, good for you. Maybe you should run for office then. If you're so brilliant and represent the majority then you'll have an easy time winning....right?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  15. #1015
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    I think its hilarious! Poor Edmonton taxpayers...

  16. #1016

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I think its hilarious! Poor Edmonton taxpayers...
    You mean Canadian Taxpayers. It was mostly paid for by Federal dollars.

  17. #1017

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    My favourite "Playground Zone" has to be on 109 Street south of 23rd Avenue on the east side of Kaskitayo Park. Brilliant.

    For "traffic calming" may I suggest 106 Street between 76 Avenue and 51 Avenue that is only slightly better now than when they made the portion next to the cemetery one-way!

    As for bike lanes, don't get me started....
    Last edited by The Man From YEG; 06-03-2018 at 11:05 AM.

  18. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post

    If only it was a matter of opinion. If only. But so often I'm proven right.

    I knew the painted bike lanes they installed years ago were a bad idea. They nonetheless spent millions putting them in and then, yes, later taking them out.

    I had reservations about the suicide barriers on the high level, though I am sympathetic and understand why they did it. But of course city council disappointed me by screwing it up and making the bridge sidewalk narrower and terrible to bike on.

    I knew it was absolutely stupid to have year-round 'playground zones' throughout the city where you have to slow down or get a ticket. I swear to god, outside of school I almost literally never see kids on playgrounds in the winter, much less the ones that are next to my place. Much less in the dark evenings.

    If I had more time, I'd go on. I could right an essay, for instance, on the traffic calming schemes in this city. But I have noticed one commonality to all this. Usually, the things that turn out the worst are those that are done at the behest of a special interest group and that generally ignore the wishes of the majority.
    Yeah, Top_Dawg hears ya.

    And more recently there was the ' Imagine Jasper ' fiasco.

    http://edmontonsun.com/2017/08/25/gu...7-5088eb13e355

    Top_Dawg loves the way ol' Gunter put it.

    " The picnic tables cluttering up the parking lanes between 109 Street and 115 Street look like outdoor seating at a homeless shelter, although even the homeless have the good sense not to use them. "

  19. #1019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I think its hilarious! Poor Edmonton taxpayers...
    You mean Canadian Taxpayers. It was mostly paid for by Federal dollars.

    uuuhhh, Edmonton taxpayers pay Federal taxes in many ways including each time they gas up and each April.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  20. #1020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ Agreed

    Yes, but this does not get to the core admin of this Civic Administration which is unelected, inefficient, noncommunicative, unhelpful, and tenured. Its the administrative end that seems to be the worst and that are involved in the chronic bad decisions which perpetuate through elected City councils.

    We don't even impact what is most rotten to the core at COE. We chip away at it. A firing here and there, a Farbrother canned. But the disease remains very much intact in the closed shop COE.
    You get no argument from me on those points.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  21. #1021

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    I fear that they are going to have another round of "improving Jasper Avenue" from the Shaw Convention Centre to 109 Street soon.

  22. #1022

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    And let me guess, the 'special interest' groups you speak off are pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you and 'the majority' are people who do agree with you. I've met a lot of people over my years who believe things are not 'a matter of opinion' and that they are always proven right on things. All I can say is, good for you. Maybe you should run for office then. If you're so brilliant and represent the majority then you'll have an easy time winning....right?
    No, I don't think I would have an easy time winning because as I've said, the people of Edmonton rarely punish council for its decisions. Furthermore, the main thing that matters during civic elections is name recognition and incumbency. You've seen what goes on. How is one fresh face supposed to win when there are a zillion other fresh faces because the cost of entering the race is so low? It happens, but not enough.

  23. #1023

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    And let me guess, the 'special interest' groups you speak off are pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you and 'the majority' are people who do agree with you. I've met a lot of people over my years who believe things are not 'a matter of opinion' and that they are always proven right on things. All I can say is, good for you. Maybe you should run for office then. If you're so brilliant and represent the majority then you'll have an easy time winning....right?
    No, I don't think I would have an easy time winning because as I've said, the people of Edmonton rarely punish council for its decisions. Furthermore, the main thing that matters during civic elections is name recognition and incumbency. You've seen what goes on. How is one fresh face supposed to win when there are a zillion other fresh faces because the cost of entering the race is so low? It happens, but not enough.
    Three new councillors were just elected, two of which had very low name recognition. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, that's fine, but don't blame Edmonton voters for it. One might say that the reason Edmontonians 'rarely punish council for its decision' is because Edmontonians are largely happy with the overall direction of the city. Or you can just blame our civic elections system. That's easier.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  24. #1024

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    And let me guess, the 'special interest' groups you speak off are pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you and 'the majority' are people who do agree with you. I've met a lot of people over my years who believe things are not 'a matter of opinion' and that they are always proven right on things. All I can say is, good for you. Maybe you should run for office then. If you're so brilliant and represent the majority then you'll have an easy time winning....right?
    No, I don't think I would have an easy time winning because as I've said, the people of Edmonton rarely punish council for its decisions. Furthermore, the main thing that matters during civic elections is name recognition and incumbency. You've seen what goes on. How is one fresh face supposed to win when there are a zillion other fresh faces because the cost of entering the race is so low? It happens, but not enough.
    Three new councillors were just elected, two of which had very low name recognition. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, that's fine, but don't blame Edmonton voters for it. One might say that the reason Edmontonians 'rarely punish council for its decision' is because Edmontonians are largely happy with the overall direction of the city. Or you can just blame our civic elections system. That's easier.
    Only one new councillor managed to unseat an incumbent. And then only barely. The first time since 2007.

  25. #1025

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I fear that they are going to have another round of "improving Jasper Avenue" from the Shaw Convention Centre to 109 Street soon.
    How true...

    Probably a plan to run a LRT line at grade down Jasper Ave. All because the engineers looked and did not see a line down the street. Sort of like the first funicular in Edmonton that they just completed.

    Because there was not another one in Edmonton (or at least not another one they could see within 300 meters.)


    Shaw funicular and staircase and escalator

    https://www.emporis.com/images/detai...cular-elevator J. Louis Baillargeon

    https://twitter.com/yegfunicular
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  26. #1026

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    Well, if incumbents make such terrible decisions you should be able to wow people with your brilliance pretty easily.... or you can wait until there is a councillor who retires, which happens fairly often.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  27. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Three new councillors were just elected, two of which had very low name recognition. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, that's fine, but don't blame Edmonton voters for it. One might say that the reason Edmontonians 'rarely punish council for its decision' is because Edmontonians are largely happy with the overall direction of the city. Or you can just blame our civic elections system. That's easier.


    Not to quibble but four new abortionists were elected in the most recent election.

    And Top_Dawg sees no evidence of Emmonites being happy.

    The evidence shows that the overwhelming majority of them just don't give a rat's snatch.

    Almost 70% didn't bother to vote.

  28. #1028

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    Friday, March 9, 2018
    A few people were using around 7:50. Both the funicular and elevator we're working.




  29. #1029
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    Looks like the funicular hours are 7:00 am to 9:00 pm.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  30. #1030

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    ^It changes related to daylight. So that in summer it should be open later.

    I think they want to avoid operation in pitch dark and also people using the facility in the dark when the area could be perceived as less secure.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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