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Thread: Flair Airlines | Discussion

  1. #101
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    I wouldnt fly with them, they dont have another staff by the sounds of it. In the airport for NYD, no thanks

  2. #102
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    I'm surprised , they just dumped the passengers that already booked..tsk tsk

  3. #103
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    Pushed out, simple as that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Pushed out, simple as that.
    They also cancelled their Hamilton-Orlando Melbourne route, no one was competing with them on that one. People don't really want to fly an airline that charges for carry-ons.

  5. #105
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    See Europe.
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  6. #106
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    European airlines don't charge for carry-ons. Even the lowest fare ones.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Pushed out, simple as that.
    They also cancelled their Hamilton-Orlando Melbourne route, no one was competing with them on that one. People don't really want to fly an airline that charges for carry-ons.

    You get what you pay for,I think this airline could you stranded anytime...

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    See Europe.
    Canada is not Europe. Canadians aren't Europeans. Dramatically different market, dramatically different people.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    European airlines don't charge for carry-ons. Even the lowest fare ones.
    Point being the nickle and dime game.
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  10. #110

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    I'd fly them because even after paying for luggage, they are far cheaper than AC or WJ.
    Can't beat $150 to Vancouver or $300 to GTA.

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    Thing is, WestJet is pretty much matching NewLeaf prices on their matching routes. So, do you go with a known airline, WestJet, with free carry ons and a special price, or choose NewLeaf who's still unfamiliar but is the reason for the low price? Going with WestJet seems better in the short term, but if NewLeaf doesn't make a go of it, we say good-bye to low prices.

  12. #112

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    My wife flew Edmonton-Hamilton and it was fine, we will continue to support new leaf on that route even if weather's deal is equal because we want them to stick around and we know that WestJet won't.

    Just so everyone knows, a small (under-seat) carry-on us free, it's the big overhead bin ones that are not. It actually makes some sense to avoid the over-filled bins and time-wasteing gate-check that happen when checked bags cost but carry-on is free.
    There can only be one.

  13. #113
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    NewLeaf Travel name changed to Flair Airlines

    Edmonton Journal EDMONTON JOURNAL

    Discount airline seat reseller NewLeaf Travel marked its first anniversary Tuesday by changing its name to Flair Airlines.

    NewLeaf was bought June 7 by Kelowna, B.C.- based Flair Airlines, which had been supplying NewLeaf with aircraft and crews, in a move designed to bring airline operations and marketing under one roof.

    Over the past year, Flair has flown 320,000 people and completed more than 2,600 flights across Canada, according to a news release.

    Flair Airlines says it intends to expand its route network over the coming weeks, although details haven’t been released yet.

    Celebrations with passengers are being held Tuesday at airports where Flair is departing, and the company is offering an 11 per cent discount on all bookings made during the day.

    Boarding passes will carry the new name, which will also be shown at all airports. The current schedule will continue to operate as planned.

    When NewLeaf was started in July 2016, it positioned itself as an ultra-low-cost option that would undercut Air Canada and WestJet on price.

    Six months after it launched, NewLeaf dropped several cities from its schedule. It ditched plans to fly to Phoenix and Orlando, blaming WestJet for squeezing it out of the market.
    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...flair-airlines

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    I'd fly them because even after paying for luggage, they are far cheaper than AC or WJ.
    Can't beat $150 to Vancouver or $300 to GTA.
    Absolutely....
    July long...YEG to YWG $600+ on WJ and $700+ on AC
    Flair took us for $270 RT each with no luggage and a pre printed boarding pass.$560 RT for 2 as opposed to $1200+ ,on WJ and $1400+ on AC. This is NOT simple nickels and dimes. I am saving thousands not hundreds when I fly home. WJ and AC are disconnected. I'll continue to fly where I can get the best for my money. Right now..Flair is the one.
    This is the new booking site. It's already Flair...http://gonewleaf.ca/?utm_source=Flai...d315-111032189
    Last edited by cnr67; 25-07-2017 at 04:36 PM.
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    Next time I go to Abbotsford I'll be flying Flair for sure

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    Recommend a renaming of this thread to "Flair Airlines".

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    ^ Done.
    Almost always open to debate...

  18. #118
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    One of these days I'm hoping Flair will pick up the slack left by WJ on the Edmonton-Moncton via Hamilton route.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    One of these days I'm hoping Flair will pick up the slack left by WJ on the Edmonton-Moncton via Hamilton route.
    You could easily make that at YEG->YHM->YQM->YYT

  20. #120
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    ^ Absolutely. Are you listening, Flair?
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    So with YEG becoming Flair's main "transfer hub" it is in YEGs best interest to see Flair grow and thrive. How can the airport help support this airline which has chosen to utilize YEG in this manor without alienating other airlines that still give us important routes.

  22. #122

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    I flew on Flair a couple of weeks ago from Abbotsford. Plane was full. Flight was fine outside of getting to Abbotsford. I checked my bag as it was cheaper. Checked bag was $25 plus tax, carry on was $31 plus tax if booked on-line. Prices escalate if you check a bag at the counter and it is more at the gate. The person at the gate announced that a late checked carry-on would be $80 plus tax. I did not see anyone carrying around bags with any indicators on them to identify if they were paid for as carry-on. I only saw one back pack with the typical airline luggage tags. Does anyone know how they monitor this? Would it be indicated on your boarding pass? I would have thought there would be some tag given to put on your carry-on at the check-in counter to prove you already paid for your carry-on.

  23. #123
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    First aircraft is painted in new livery:


    https://worldairlinenews.files.wordp...dgflairlrw.jpg

  24. #124
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    Looks great minus the awkward placing of the Flair Airlines name above and below the windows near the front.

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    I flew with Flair Dec 17 - Dec 20 to Kelowna and back. Quick stopover in Vancouver both ways but didn't have to disembark the plane. Although there are some definite growing pains as I found they were slightly disorganized when it came to check-in, I am overall satisfied with how the trips went and will fly again.
    Last edited by Mla; 28-12-2017 at 09:19 AM.

  26. #126
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    Reminds me of BA a little. Can we refer to them as Speedgoose?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    First aircraft is painted in new livery: https://worldairlinenews.files.wordp...dgflairlrw.jpg
    So much better to see a creative aspect instead of the boring livery that is AC. Well done in my eyes.
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    Is there any word on proposed addition of aircraft or expansion into US markets?

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    I think the livery looks great. Think it is a nice balance of not being too conservative but also not too far out there. I will be doing my part to support these guys and i hope the region does as well. Not very often do we have the opportunity of an airline calling YEG their HUB so i think we need to make the most of it, you never know what Flair could turn into. This will be that much more important as others like SWOOP and Jetlines potentially fire up their operations and create quite a bit of competition in the market.

  30. #130

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    Nice livery. But it'll never be as good as my all-time favourite livery...


  31. #131
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    And our hometown airline


  32. #132

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    Ward turned into Canadian after, so both are Edmonton products.

  33. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    First aircraft is painted in new livery: https://worldairlinenews.files.wordp...dgflairlrw.jpg
    So much better to see a creative aspect instead of the boring livery that is AC. Well done in my eyes.
    I've flown on this particular plane countless times on FBO flights. This metal was designated for Edmonton. The wing does not have that upward curve and that is how I recognized it.

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    Flair Airlines updated their schedule to December 2018.
    They'll operate 35 weekly flights from YEG.

    Abbotsford 10 weekly
    111 2x weekly Mon, Thu (Jan-Feb)
    111 4x weekly Sun, Mon, Thu, Fri (Mar-)
    121 1x weekly Tue
    211 4x weekly Sun, Mon, Thu, Fri
    821 1x weekly Sat

    Hamilton 5x weekly
    120 1x weekly Tues
    210 2x weekly Mon, Thu (Jan-Feb)
    210 4x weekly Mon, Thu, Fri, Sun (Mar-)

    Kelowna 3x weekly
    311 3x weekly Tue, Thur, Sat

    Toronto 7x weekly
    210 7x weekly Daily

    Vancouver 5x weekly
    311 4x weekly Sun, Mon, Wed, Fri
    841 1x weekly Sat

    Winnipeg 5x weekly
    110 4x weekly Sun, Mon, Thur, Fri
    132 1x weekly Wed

  35. #135
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    Great to see for our domestic number growth.
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  36. #136
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    My wife flew to YXX the other day. Quite pleased with the price saved about $100 and the service all around. $2.50 for a decent cup of coffee and a cookie which she didn’t mind paying.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Flair Airlines updated their schedule to December 2018.
    They'll operate 35 weekly flights from YEG.

    Abbotsford 10 weekly
    111 2x weekly Mon, Thu (Jan-Feb)
    111 4x weekly Sun, Mon, Thu, Fri (Mar-)
    121 1x weekly Tue
    211 4x weekly Sun, Mon, Thu, Fri
    821 1x weekly Sat

    Hamilton 5x weekly
    120 1x weekly Tues
    210 2x weekly Mon, Thu (Jan-Feb)
    210 4x weekly Mon, Thu, Fri, Sun (Mar-)

    Kelowna 3x weekly
    311 3x weekly Tue, Thur, Sat

    Toronto 7x weekly
    210 7x weekly Daily

    Vancouver 5x weekly
    311 4x weekly Sun, Mon, Wed, Fri
    841 1x weekly Sat

    Winnipeg 5x weekly
    110 4x weekly Sun, Mon, Thur, Fri
    132 1x weekly Wed
    For those wishing for an airline to make YEG its hub, you have got your wish. Now, will the City support the service? I hope so...

  38. #138
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    Indeed. Seems as though many folks I know are booking weekend trips to visit fam/friends because of the low-fares.

    They should get Ric Flair to do some commercials.
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    Woooooo!


    Any word on Flairs proposed expansion into the states and rumours regarding Air Canada Rouge coming to YES.

    Also booked a June flight to San Fran on Air Canada’s new flight - $650 return for 2 - great price.

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    I have been telling everyone I know to be sure to look into Flair for their travel plans. A huge opportunity for YEG.

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    ^ Me too. Especially people travelling to and from BC. With such cheap prices I don't know who wouldn't go with Flair.

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    The BC flights are nice and cheap. I looked at flights to Toronto and they are the same price, round trip, as WestJet and AirCanada. I will be using these guys for any BC flights for sure though.

  43. #143

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    If Edmonton is the Hub, I will support that airline where they serve my destination. If they're same price, wouldn't it make sense to support an airline that has made us a Huh? When they grow, guess What? We get more routes....

  44. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    If Edmonton is the Hub, I will support that airline where they serve my destination. If they're same price, wouldn't it make sense to support an airline that has made us a Huh? When they grow, guess What? We get more routes....
    Only issue for me is Toronto is not my final destination when I go to Ontario so I'm not one who likes to book flights on two different airlines for one trip. Call me weird but it's not worth it to do so flying in Canada.

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    Interesting development at Flair Air.
    https://infotel.ca/newsitem/flair-airlines/cp1722999208
    January 16, 2018 - 7:30 AM
    KELOWNA, B.C. - The founder of Canada Jetlines is taking over as chief executive of Canadian discount carrier Flair Airlines Ltd.Jim Scott replaces Flair founder and former president Jim Rogers, who will remain an adviser until 2019 after selling his shares in the Kelowna-based company.

    i wonder what this means for Jetlines and if he will keep the same model for Flair Air?
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    I don't know who wouldn't go with Flair.
    I don't, simply because earning miles is very important to me. Having said that, family members are flying Flair.

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    It’s exciting to think they will be adding 2 planes in 2018. Given their current fleet of 7, 2 new planes is a big deal and will make it possible to have greater frequencies which is something I will be looking for to make them an airline I decide to fly on more often.

    The other thing, as mentioned above, is a rewards program. No guarantee they go for something like this any time soon as that is an expense to operate.

  48. #148
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    Vicious rumour...

    WestJet to buy Flair and use it to fast track Swoop....

    I've heard this a couple times already. Has anyone else?
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Not offhand. I just keep having Jetsgo flashbacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Vicious rumour...

    WestJet to buy Flair and use it to fast track Swoop....

    I've heard this a couple times already. Has anyone else?
    I wouldn't put it past WestJet. They don't seem to be huge fans of competition.

  51. #151
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    If I were the government I would not approve such a merger it is clearly against the public interest.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    The feds don't seem to be huge fans of competition either.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Seems odd they would appoint a new CEO one day only to be bought out the next. The rumour probably has no legs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    The feds don't seem to be huge fans of competition either.
    How can you make such blanket unsubstantiated statements when the feds have new guidelines for owners of airlines to increase foreign ownership from 25% to 49% to stimulate competition. They already made exceptions for Jetlines to increase foreign ownership for this very reason.
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    ^ I was making a flippant remark about this country's love of oligopolies - airlines, banks, telecoms, gas stations, etc. I was also thinking back to the justification for allowing the merger of Canadian with Air Canada because having both airlines was deemed "a duplication of services" rather than competition. So yeah, I've long held little trust in our so-called Competition Bureau.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Seems odd they would appoint a new CEO one day only to be bought out the next. The rumour probably has no legs.
    Maybe...but it wouldn't be the first time. K2 & Canadi>n were meant to merge with AC or be bought ...

    I've personally been involved with M&A's on a team with a CEO who distinctly was meant to clean house in order to set up the acquisition.

    WestJet does a lot of servicework in ylw alongside Flair's HQ. WJ also has the deep pockets to outprice and outlast Flair. Marcel is right to see shades of JetsGo and Greyhound Air...

    One source is a bit wishy washy, but the second is not so much. AC isn't remotely interested, but with WJ wanting to scale fast, a personnel shortage, and an already established fleet with Flair, this rumor has more than legs. I'm not advocating for an acquisition, but it is very plausible.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    (...) I was also thinking back to the justification for allowing the merger of Canadian with Air Canada because having both airlines was deemed "a duplication of services" rather than competition.
    Without going into detail, the Bureau's comment on duplication was more accurate than not. Canadi>n was done for. Onyx failed. The industry was in turmoil. It took some time for it to recover, and the demand was weak. I'll spare you the nauseating details, but the mid 1990's sucked.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Flair Airlines' new CEO targets 1M passengers, but WestJet's Swoop may 'blanket-bomb' rival with ultra-low fares




    Flair said it has flown over 500,000 passengers since June 2016, and expects to hit the one-million passenger milestone in 2018. The airline also plans on expanding its fleet. The company said it will be operating seven Boeing 737-400 aircraft, outfitted with 156-seats each, in 2018 and will add two Boeing 737-800 jets at a later point.

    http://business.financialpost.com/tr...rget-this-year
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    Honestly thinking, with family in YVR, storing some clothes there so I can just walk on, walk off and save addiutional fees for an on-board treat.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanGalhanth View Post
    Nice livery. But it'll never be as good as my all-time favorite livery...

    Dad Captained these for 20 years with 3 airlines.
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    Yeah...that one still makes me smile. probably the best merging of livery/branding I've seen, unlike the lazy United combination...

    Even the Tailfin Goose livery was interesting, and uniquely Canadi>n.

    Although I will always have a deeper spot for the PWA Chevron of the early years...prior to the Atari version of 1980+
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    The interviewer didn't even talk about their presence in YEG. It was the CEO who mentioned that YEG is their largest base. Good to hear - I have already taken them once and plan to do so again. Hopefully they can continue to take advantage of other carriers' lack of awareness of YEG market and build up their hub here. Not a bad strategy to fend off Swoop and rouge, both of which are going to focus obsessively on YYC in the west. Flair can maintain a position of strength by focusing instead on YEG.

    I thought the CEO performed well in the interview. He is clearly focused on building up the network and company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    The interviewer didn't even talk about their presence in YEG. It was the CEO who mentioned that YEG is their largest base. Good to hear - I have already taken them once and plan to do so again. Hopefully they can continue to take advantage of other carriers' lack of awareness of YEG market and build up their hub here. Not a bad strategy to fend off Swoop and rouge, both of which are going to focus obsessively on YYC in the west. Flair can maintain a position of strength by focusing instead on YEG.

    I thought the CEO performed well in the interview. He is clearly focused on building up the network and company.
    Swoop has been hiring flight attendants and pilots on Hamilton and Abbotsford, nothing in Calgary.

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    We have friends in Barrie who are flying out to Revy to go skiing with us (flying in to Kelowna). They mentioned they booked their flights and I asked if they looked at Flair. They weren't even aware of the airline. I shouldn't have mentioned it because it turns out Flair would have been $200 pp cheaper.

    It's not like they're not travellers. Mostly international stuff though. Maybe they don't have enough planes yet to do a full advertising blitz.

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    Informative video about the new strategy/direction of Flair Airlines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98DiTfAsMeU

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    We have friends in Barrie who are flying out to Revy to go skiing with us (flying in to Kelowna). They mentioned they booked their flights and I asked if they looked at Flair. They weren't even aware of the airline. I shouldn't have mentioned it because it turns out Flair would have been $200 pp cheaper.

    It's not like they're not travellers. Mostly international stuff though. Maybe they don't have enough planes yet to do a full advertising blitz.
    The fact you mentioned that they don't have enough metal is my concern for their existence. I have flown them multiple times while they serviced the BFO flights. They have two big planes both are Boeing 737 and propeller planes. That is not enough to compete, so they will most likely go under. What I do see in the outcome of that is Caribou North and Canadian North along with Flair almalgamate into one. Once these three team up, they need to align with porter. Porter covers the east and the new amalgamation cover the West. When time comes, the east and west join together for a formidable third needed carrier. The way it is right now, they won't survive as it is only a matter of time the big sharks get hungry and swallow them. In terms of the hub system, they did exactly what i had suggested- long before they decided to take on commercial- which was to stay away from where WS and Air C... have established their bases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    We have friends in Barrie who are flying out to Revy to go skiing with us (flying in to Kelowna). They mentioned they booked their flights and I asked if they looked at Flair. They weren't even aware of the airline. I shouldn't have mentioned it because it turns out Flair would have been $200 pp cheaper.

    It's not like they're not travellers. Mostly international stuff though. Maybe they don't have enough planes yet to do a full advertising blitz.
    The fact you mentioned that they don't have enough metal is my concern for their existence. I have flown them multiple times while they serviced the BFO flights. They have two big planes both are Boeing 737 and propeller planes. That is not enough to compete, so they will most likely go under. What I do see in the outcome of that is Caribou North and Canadian North along with Flair almalgamate into one. Once these three team up, they need to align with porter. Porter covers the east and the new amalgamation cover the West. When time comes, the east and west join together for a formidable third needed carrier. The way it is right now, they won't survive as it is only a matter of time the big sharks get hungry and swallow them. In terms of the hub system, they did exactly what i had suggested- long before they decided to take on commercial- which was to stay away from where WS and Air C... have established their bases.
    I believe they have 6 737-400 currently, not 2? As well they have 737-800's on order for 2018?

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    Maybe they have that number now, but a couple years ago , they had two. The newly painted metal on post 133 was for Edmonton departures for FBO as I recognize the wings of that plane where it has no upward curves at the end. The other plane was for Calgary as it has the curve factor. That aside, they will still get swallowed up. I'm very positive of a third carrier in Canada, but, as I mentioned, the four carriers that I listed must cooperate with each other and become one to compete with the two sharks. The sharks have too deep of pockets and they can afford to lose money to drown out competition.
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    They have seven planes none are props.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flair_Airlines
    They brought Jim Scott in from Jetlines who had apparently secured foreign investment for them and one can only assume he will try to get foreign investors for Flair. This is the best hope for this airlines survival now that the government allows 49% foreign ownership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    We have friends in Barrie who are flying out to Revy to go skiing with us (flying in to Kelowna). They mentioned they booked their flights and I asked if they looked at Flair. They weren't even aware of the airline. I shouldn't have mentioned it because it turns out Flair would have been $200 pp cheaper.

    It's not like they're not travellers. Mostly international stuff though. Maybe they don't have enough planes yet to do a full advertising blitz.
    The fact you mentioned that they don't have enough metal is my concern for their existence. I have flown them multiple times while they serviced the BFO flights. They have two big planes both are Boeing 737 and propeller planes. That is not enough to compete, so they will most likely go under. What I do see in the outcome of that is Caribou North and Canadian North along with Flair almalgamate into one. Once these three team up, they need to align with porter. Porter covers the east and the new amalgamation cover the West. When time comes, the east and west join together for a formidable third needed carrier. The way it is right now, they won't survive as it is only a matter of time the big sharks get hungry and swallow them. In terms of the hub system, they did exactly what i had suggested- long before they decided to take on commercial- which was to stay away from where WS and Air C... have established their bases.
    With a pax load averaging 80% plus, I don't see them going anywhere.A merger is not going to happen as CN and caribou are not ULCC oriented and do not fit the business scope of what Flair is doing.
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  72. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    We have friends in Barrie who are flying out to Revy to go skiing with us (flying in to Kelowna). They mentioned they booked their flights and I asked if they looked at Flair. They weren't even aware of the airline. I shouldn't have mentioned it because it turns out Flair would have been $200 pp cheaper.

    It's not like they're not travellers. Mostly international stuff though. Maybe they don't have enough planes yet to do a full advertising blitz.
    The fact you mentioned that they don't have enough metal is my concern for their existence. I have flown them multiple times while they serviced the BFO flights. They have two big planes both are Boeing 737 and propeller planes. That is not enough to compete, so they will most likely go under. What I do see in the outcome of that is Caribou North and Canadian North along with Flair almalgamate into one. Once these three team up, they need to align with porter. Porter covers the east and the new amalgamation cover the West. When time comes, the east and west join together for a formidable third needed carrier. The way it is right now, they won't survive as it is only a matter of time the big sharks get hungry and swallow them. In terms of the hub system, they did exactly what i had suggested- long before they decided to take on commercial- which was to stay away from where WS and Air C... have established their bases.
    With a pax load averaging 80% plus, I don't see them going anywhere.A merger is not going to happen as CN and caribou are not ULCC oriented and do not fit the business scope of what Flair is doing.
    Totally depends. Air Berlin lost money for years while all the time having a load factor greater than 80% before finally going broke last year.

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    And you sat through how many investor/executive meetings to learn that the other two have no interests in expanding their horizons. All three airlines are not fresh start-up operations, so when FBO came to reality, they jump at the opportunity to expand their horizons. Companies will always expand if there are opportunities to do so.
    "Amalgamation" was a light term I used as buyouts or take overs could occur.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    We have friends in Barrie who are flying out to Revy to go skiing with us (flying in to Kelowna). They mentioned they booked their flights and I asked if they looked at Flair. They weren't even aware of the airline. I shouldn't have mentioned it because it turns out Flair would have been $200 pp cheaper.

    It's not like they're not travellers. Mostly international stuff though. Maybe they don't have enough planes yet to do a full advertising blitz.
    The fact you mentioned that they don't have enough metal is my concern for their existence. I have flown them multiple times while they serviced the BFO flights. They have two big planes both are Boeing 737 and propeller planes. That is not enough to compete, so they will most likely go under. What I do see in the outcome of that is Caribou North and Canadian North along with Flair almalgamate into one. Once these three team up, they need to align with porter. Porter covers the east and the new amalgamation cover the West. When time comes, the east and west join together for a formidable third needed carrier. The way it is right now, they won't survive as it is only a matter of time the big sharks get hungry and swallow them. In terms of the hub system, they did exactly what i had suggested- long before they decided to take on commercial- which was to stay away from where WS and Air C... have established their bases.
    This is an overly simplistic way to look at it and you are ignoring a few things. First, the airline industry has changed in the last 5 years and no one has noticed. All the airlines are making billions of dollars. Including Air Canada and Westjet, and especially the US carriers. There is plenty of room now for Flair as a third national carrier. Bet on it. Plenty of profit to go around. Second, the leadership at Flair has departed from their fixed base operator past. There would be no benefit to merging with Caribou air. Why? Because that would introduce a totally different business model (niche local carrier versus national low cost carrier), and another aircraft type (this is anathema to low cost carriers). Merging with Canadian North might be an interesting idea, but Canadian North is not exactly for sale. Also, Canadian North is a relatively high-cost niche carrier focused on northern destinations. Again totally opposite to what Flair is trying to do, and really just a distraction to their strategy of mass transportation among the large Canadian cities. At this time, if they can get their cost structure to a point that is lower than the 'big sharks' (which it already is), it would be difficult for them to 'swallow' them.

  75. #175

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    They may not have it now, but i remember they have them as I flown on it from Fort Nelson, BC to Edmonton for FBO in late fall 2013
    It was equivalent or a DC 11 style two propellers. It was that one particuliar time as the non curved winged Boeing was full, and I got the short straw and a handful others. I remembered the paint work on It which was primarily dark royal blue or black with gold on the name at the rail. Always the same crew on the same planes, so I wouldn't be surprised if I fly them now that some will recognize me as I always sat at the back and laughed it up with them with jokes etc. The crews were a great bunch not to mention a few eye candies at that time.
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  76. #176

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    2 things...
    1). Show me concrete proof your inside info of their strategies, and future interest , and i will believe you.
    2) You mentioned that both airlines are making incredible returns. What has flair earned? The ones with billions will drown out the new comers- at least it's my strategy. With billion in profit vs a start up, the billion profit can the new comers cheap price in half and endure the survival. New comers cannot. I live through the Air Canada disgusting strategy over Canadian Airlines. The difference back then was one on one ( with government subsidies for two bail outs to one courtesy of tax payers.
    The difference this time is that we have two successful major airline that will gang up on a
    newby. Both of those airlines are planning low costs again. How do you propose they fight the two bullies with billions in profits over the years. This new company would be glad to reach .5 billion profit since their existence which I doubt if they have even garner that. You debating with a paint by number process instead of actual painting. You got to expand way outside the box. Just to show you how i think, if i was one of those two major airlines final decision maker, I would even jab the knife to that wound some more by throwing in a bonus such as every nine flight you take with us, your tenth flight will be free anywhere in Canada for this two or so year span timeline. You think the newby can compete like that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    We have friends in Barrie who are flying out to Revy to go skiing with us (flying in to Kelowna). They mentioned they booked their flights and I asked if they looked at Flair. They weren't even aware of the airline. I shouldn't have mentioned it because it turns out Flair would have been $200 pp cheaper.

    It's not like they're not travellers. Mostly international stuff though. Maybe they don't have enough planes yet to do a full advertising blitz.
    The fact you mentioned that they don't have enough metal is my concern for their existence. I have flown them multiple times while they serviced the BFO flights. They have two big planes both are Boeing 737 and propeller planes. That is not enough to compete, so they will most likely go under. What I do see in the outcome of that is Caribou North and Canadian North along with Flair almalgamate into one. Once these three team up, they need to align with porter. Porter covers the east and the new amalgamation cover the West. When time comes, the east and west join together for a formidable third needed carrier. The way it is right now, they won't survive as it is only a matter of time the big sharks get hungry and swallow them. In terms of the hub system, they did exactly what i had suggested- long before they decided to take on commercial- which was to stay away from where WS and Air C... have established their bases.
    With a pax load averaging 80% plus, I don't see them going anywhere.A merger is not going to happen as CN and caribou are not ULCC oriented and do not fit the business scope of what Flair is doing.
    Totally depends. Air Berlin lost money for years while all the time having a load factor greater than 80% before finally going broke last year.
    That was in part due to expansion beyond their capabilities. That said, Flair has plans for only 2 aircraft in the next 2 months. What routes they plan are another story. As well, when WJ began, they had 3 old 737-200's from Canadian Airlines.What did AC do? They started Jazz, Tango and Zip. Why? To put WJ out of business. Decades later, Westjet is expanding. How? By starting a discount airline on top of Encore. .Westjet is pulling the same crap AC did on them and failed at. This country will embrace the discount airlines considering how many people who border hop to avoid the HUGE fares in this country. I know several that do and have said they won't if the ULCC's offer what they want. Alot of revenue waiting to be gleaned.
    Last edited by cnr67; 31-01-2018 at 10:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    They may not have it now, but i remember they have them as I flown on it from Fort Nelson, BC to Edmonton for FBO in late fall 2013
    It was equivalent or a DC 11 style two propellers.
    It was that one particular time as the non curved winged Boeing was full, and I got the short straw and a handful others. I remembered the paint work on It which was primarily dark royal blue or black with gold on the name at the rail. Always the same crew on the same planes, so I wouldn't be surprised if I fly them now that some will recognize me as I always sat at the back and laughed it up with them with jokes etc. The crews were a great bunch not to mention a few eye candies at that time.
    They did have 1 small twin. http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Flair%20Airlines.htm BTW....There is no such type as a DC11. There were DC (Douglas Corporation) 2,3,4,6,7 ,8 ,9,10 And the MD (mcdonnell douglas)11.
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    Twin prop? Ft. St. John ... wild guess but sounds like a CMA Beachcraft 1900.

    One seat each side of the aisle?
    ... gobsmacked

  80. #180

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    ctzn-Ed is right. Just got notification of Swoop's (one-way) deals. Feel like they're operating this solely to kick Flair out of the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Twin prop? Ft. St. John ... wild guess but sounds like a CMA Beachcraft 1900.

    One seat each side of the aisle?
    The link above gives you the info. Embraer 175 was the equipment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meo View Post
    ctzn-Ed is right. Just got notification of Swoop's (one-way) deals. Feel like they're operating this solely to kick Flair out of the way.
    The same BS stunt AC pulled on WJ years ago. THAT will cement my distaste for them further than it is. How quickly they forget the crap thrown at them when they were just starting out. They can match Flair...I won't fly with them.
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    ^Yup me neither. People at work were all talking about Swoop today. I was quick to defend Flair but I'm worried for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    ^Yup me neither. People at work were all talking about Swoop today. I was quick to defend Flair but I'm worried for them.
    So were the folks at WJ back then. They have what looks like a good business model and unlike WJ at the time, have been in business 12 years already and have that experience to draw from. I don't appreciate how WJ is implementing this. They have Encore. REALLY....Do they need a 3rd airline?
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    That is why I suggest those four airlines combine. They have metals collectively to actually compete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    That is why I suggest those four airlines combine. They have metals collectively to actually compete.
    As long as they merge and keep the business model they now have. WJ touted itself back then to be that discount carrier. The OPTION to high airfares.. And today... THEY are one of the problems. In any case, this country loses million when people border hop to save money. Hopefully the ULCC model can take back some if not the majority of those folks and keep the business here.
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    Major as yet unannounced service expansion from Flair now loaded into schedules on their website. Appears to be Toronto-Pearson bumped to 3x daily, NEW service to Victoria, Vancouver increased to 2x daily most days, Abbostford increased by a few frequencies per week, Halifax added as direct (1 stop), Winnipeg bumped to 2x daily from 1x on most days.

    This is what it is like to have an airline hub here folks. Good news!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Major as yet unannounced service expansion from Flair now loaded into schedules on their website. Appears to be Toronto-Pearson bumped to 3x daily, NEW service to Victoria, Vancouver increased to 2x daily most days, Abbostford increased by a few frequencies per week, Halifax added as direct (1 stop), Winnipeg bumped to 2x daily from 1x on most days.

    This is what it is like to have an airline hub here folks. Good news!
    Great news. More routes and great fares. I'm in....
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    Schedule highlights (new directs):

    Toronto to: Halifax;
    Winnipeg to: Calgary, Vancouver;
    Saskatoon to: Edmonton;
    Calgary to: Vancouver, Winnipeg;
    Edmonton to: Saskatoon, Prince George, Victoria;
    Prince George to: Vancouver, Edmonton;
    Vancouver to: Prince George; and
    Victoria to: Edmonton
    Additionally, the frequency on almost every route we currently serve has grown with this new schedule

    https://www.skiesmag.com/press-relea...growth-target/

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    Excellent news and great to see.
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    This came out in 2017...

    https://www.reddeerexpress.com/news/...port-ceo-says/

    ...and the rumour mill now is that Flair and others will aunch the discount carrier service from YQF to YVR, YLW, and YYZ. They did a huge expansion of their runway capacity in 2016.

    If this is true, it looks like Flair has markets a-plenty.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  92. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    This came out in 2017...

    https://www.reddeerexpress.com/news/...port-ceo-says/

    ...and the rumour mill now is that Flair and others will aunch the discount carrier service from YQF to YVR, YLW, and YYZ. They did a huge expansion of their runway capacity in 2016.

    If this is true, it looks like Flair has markets a-plenty.
    This wouldn't be good for Edmonton (or Calgary) if they launch out of Red Deer. Vast majority of passengers would be driving from either of the two cities.

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    Point is they won’t if the discounts fly out of YYC and YEG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Schedule highlights (new directs):

    Toronto to: Halifax;
    Winnipeg to: Calgary, Vancouver;
    Saskatoon to: Edmonton;
    Calgary to: Vancouver, Winnipeg;
    Edmonton to: Saskatoon, Prince George, Victoria;
    Prince George to: Vancouver, Edmonton;
    Vancouver to: Prince George; and
    Victoria to: Edmonton
    Additionally, the frequency on almost every route we currently serve has grown with this new schedule

    https://www.skiesmag.com/press-relea...growth-target/
    With YEG being the hub for Flair and the increase in flights announced would it not be a good idea to try and get our two international carriers involved in some sort of deal with Flair to try and feed them passengers?

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    Noooooo! Let them grow organically with potential of Alliances/ amalgamations of Porter, Cariboo North and Canadian North. If they can do that,go after an international Alliance for international destination. A.C. and WS has their route of course charted and established. Any involvement with the giant, could easily derail their asperation. As long as we support them , we are good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Schedule highlights (new directs):

    Toronto to: Halifax;
    Winnipeg to: Calgary, Vancouver;
    Saskatoon to: Edmonton;
    Calgary to: Vancouver, Winnipeg;
    Edmonton to: Saskatoon, Prince George, Victoria;
    Prince George to: Vancouver, Edmonton;
    Vancouver to: Prince George; and
    Victoria to: Edmonton
    Additionally, the frequency on almost every route we currently serve has grown with this new schedule

    https://www.skiesmag.com/press-relea...growth-target/
    With YEG being the hub for Flair and the increase in flights announced would it not be a good idea to try and get our two international carriers involved in some sort of deal with Flair to try and feed them passengers?
    Both KLM and Icelandair already have a deal with WestJet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    This came out in 2017...

    https://www.reddeerexpress.com/news/...port-ceo-says/

    ...and the rumour mill now is that Flair and others will aunch the discount carrier service from YQF to YVR, YLW, and YYZ. They did a huge expansion of their runway capacity in 2016.

    If this is true, it looks like Flair has markets a-plenty.
    This wouldn't be good for Edmonton (or Calgary) if they launch out of Red Deer. Vast majority of passengers would be driving from either of the two cities.

    Lots of traffic out of Central Alberta Region to use YQF to fly YLW and YVR or to YYZ. From Rocky Mountain House to Stettler; from Ponoka to Didsbury; a low frills no hastle product out of YQF could cause some leakage from YEG and YYC.

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    ^Typically ULCC fly out of secondary airports where they can dictate terms and offer lower prices. If they are operating out of the major airports in Alberta they would simply be competing with themselves.
    Why would anyone from Didsbury not drive to YYC to catch a flight where they have a much better schedule and destinations to choose from? I just don’t see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    ^Typically ULCC fly out of secondary airports where they can dictate terms and offer lower prices. If they are operating out of the major airports in Alberta they would simply be competing with themselves.
    Why would anyone from Didsbury not drive to YYC to catch a flight where they have a much better schedule and destinations to choose from? I just don’t see it.
    Flair is calling themselves a Premium LCC (PLCC or PULCC). This is more comparable to interjet of Mexico. Don't see them building up too much of a presence in Red Deer.

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    Here is a more detailed look of the frequency of the new Flair routes, as well as increases to existing routes. Pretty big increase to the Lower Mainland in particular. Although it was kind of weird that this information wasn't readily available on Flair's website (this information is from Routesonline.com):

    Canadian carrier Flair Airlines last week announced planned service expansion during summer 2018 season, including the launch of 9 new routes, from mid-June 2018.

    Calgary – Kelownaeff 16JUN18 2 weekly
    Calgary – Vancouvereff 15JUN18 7 weekly (0-2 daily, pending on operational day)
    Calgary – Winnipegeff 15JUN18 6 weekly
    Edmonton – Prince Georgeeff 16JUN18 2 weekly
    Edmonton – Saskatooneff 16JUN18 4 weekly
    Edmonton – Victoriaeff 15JUN18 7 weekly
    Toronto – Halifaxeff 15JUN18 7 weekly
    Vancouver – Prince Georgeeff 17JUN18 2 weekly
    Vancouver – Winnipegeff 15JUN18 2 weekly

    The airline also plans service expansion from Edmonton and Hamilton, include:
    Edmonton – Abbotsfordeff 16JUN18 Increase from 10 to 24 weekly (2-4 daily, pending on operational day)
    Edmonton – Kelownaeff 15JUN18 Increase from 3 to 10 weekly
    Edmonton – Torontoeff 15JUN18 Increase from 1 to 3 daily
    Edmonton – Vancouvereff 15JUN18 Increase from 5 to 19 weekly
    Edmonton – Winnipegeff 15JUN18 Increase from 5 to 12 weekly
    Hamilton – Winnipegeff 15JUN18 Increase from 5 to 12 weekly
    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...rom-june-2018/

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