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Thread: Liberals And Trudeau - Performance Review!

  1. #2301

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.

  2. #2302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.

    I love champagne, we are having some at Easter dinner..so it doesn't matter to me. I'm just happy that people see right through the phony JT

  3. #2303

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    http://pressprogress.ca/andrew-schee...of-voters-too/

    Last year, at the Manning Centre’s Alberta Networking Conference in Red Deer, Hamish Marshall – a backroom conservative strategist who founded the alt-right Rebel Media website and ran Andrew Scheer’s Conservative leadership campaign – told conservative activists they need to focus on the “emotions” of individual voters if they ever hope to win again.
    Until recently, Marshall was the president of Torch Agency, a firm that combines public opinion research and political communications.
    The website does indicate several past clients are major Canadian political parties, including the federal Conservative Party of Canada, the Ontario PCs, the Manitoba PCs and the Saskatchewan Party. The nature of the work Torch Agency provided is not disclosed.
    Ugh. Skeevy intrusive opportunist mind games seem to be the go to strategy for Conservatives.
    Giving less of a damn than everÖ Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    LOL, too funny ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
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    How many years did it take JT to get to 44% from a nation of 30 Million compared to Kenney's 38% from a Province of 4 million since last fall 6 months ago?

    Pretty good for Kenney I'd say. I'll have my champagne in a glass set at room temp thank you.
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    http://business.financialpost.com/op...#comments-area

    The comment section is interesting..

  8. #2308
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    On the news last night they were saying that if Canada had to meet the 2030 goals, Canada would have to remove the equivalent ~ 44 million cars off the road/year.

    http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn...e-auditors-say

    Why hasn't Alberta Greenpeace poster boy Mike Hudema ventured to the Kinder Morgan protest site yet to get arrested like Elizabeth May? We can excuse David Suzuki, he's 82 years old.
    Last edited by envaneo; 29-03-2018 at 02:08 AM.
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    Even though Elizabeth May's getting "protest arrest" tactic had other motives, at least she had the Kahunas to practice what she preaches. Remember how Hudema sent his foot soldiers to Fort Mac to get arrested while he wouldn't?
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    Hudema is a creep!
    At least May was sober, she's such a crass American.

  11. #2311

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
    Actually Kenney has been in politics for much longer than Trudeau, at least 20 years now I think. Most of it as a fairly high profile MP from Calgary, he has made a career of politics. Perhaps that explains the lower approval rating, it usually goes down the longer someone is in politics.

  12. #2312

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://business.financialpost.com/op...#comments-area

    The comment section is interesting..
    It will be interesting to see what happens in Ontario with Ford. Ontario doesn't have a carbon tax, instead uses a cap and trade system. There is a lot of debate about which is better or if they are equivalent. Under their previous leader, the Ontario PC's put a carbon tax in their platform, I think on the basis it was not as hidden and more upfront and it would also allow them to fund their election promises.

    Now Ford has axed the revenue source, but so far kept the expensive promises from the PC platform. I can see the Ontario Liberals attacking the PC's platform for resulting in a bigger deficit than they have now - that should cause great concern for fiscal conservatives.

    If he gets elected, I can see Ford wiggling out of the no carbon tax promise somehow, maybe he will go back to the cap and trade system the Liberals were ok with or something similar. He will need some revenue source to pay for all the promises in his platform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
    Actually Kenney has been in politics for much longer than Trudeau, at least 20 years now I think. Most of it as a fairly high profile MP from Calgary, he has made a career of politics. Perhaps that explains the lower approval rating, it usually goes down the longer someone is in politics.
    He's doing better in Alberta now..I'm thrilled

  14. #2314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://business.financialpost.com/op...#comments-area

    The comment section is interesting..
    It will be interesting to see what happens in Ontario with Ford. Ontario doesn't have a carbon tax, instead uses a cap and trade system. There is a lot of debate about which is better or if they are equivalent. Under their previous leader, the Ontario PC's put a carbon tax in their platform, I think on the basis it was not as hidden and more upfront and it would also allow them to fund their election promises.

    Now Ford has axed the revenue source, but so far kept the expensive promises from the PC platform. I can see the Ontario Liberals attacking the PC's platform for resulting in a bigger deficit than they have now - that should cause great concern for fiscal conservatives.

    If he gets elected, I can see Ford wiggling out of the no carbon tax promise somehow, maybe he will go back to the cap and trade system the Liberals were ok with or something similar. He will need some revenue source to pay for all the promises in his platform.
    Wynne has been in power too long. All her freebies are not free, someone will have to pay
    I can see this carbon tax going nowhere, if/when the left is kicked out of provinces

  15. #2315

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
    Actually Kenney has been in politics for much longer than Trudeau, at least 20 years now I think. Most of it as a fairly high profile MP from Calgary, he has made a career of politics. Perhaps that explains the lower approval rating, it usually goes down the longer someone is in politics.
    He's doing better in Alberta now..I'm thrilled
    His party is doing ok now that he killed of the PC competion, but I don't think he is that well liked. He better hope the party doesn't have a coup before the election like the PC's did in Ontario, when they sensed their former leader wasn't that appealing. I get the sense Jean is quietly waiting in the wings in case something happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
    Actually Kenney has been in politics for much longer than Trudeau, at least 20 years now I think. Most of it as a fairly high profile MP from Calgary, he has made a career of politics. Perhaps that explains the lower approval rating, it usually goes down the longer someone is in politics.
    I'm not a UPC supporter or a fan but after 20 years cut Kenny some slack. He's paid his dues.
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  17. #2317

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
    Actually Kenney has been in politics for much longer than Trudeau, at least 20 years now I think. Most of it as a fairly high profile MP from Calgary, he has made a career of politics. Perhaps that explains the lower approval rating, it usually goes down the longer someone is in politics.
    I'm not a UPC supporter or a fan but after 20 years cut Kenny some slack. He's paid his dues.
    I think he is an obnoxious,self righteous, blowhard, so whether he has "paid his dues" or not is not relevant to me. I don't owe him anything and I don't feel the need to suck up to him or kiss his butt.

  18. #2318

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    MALCOLM: Real women aren't fooled by Trudeau's fake feminism


    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is a proud feminist. He tells us over and over and over again.


    But Canadian women arenít impressed. A recent Ipsos poll revealed that more women plan to vote for Conservatives than Liberals in the 2019 election.


    ...


    Women also care about being respected and treated fairly. When Conservative MP and former cabinet minister Lisa Raitt criticized Trudeauís recent budget for its lack of substance, Finance Minister Bill Morneau called her a ďNeanderthal.Ē


    This isnít as bad as when Trudeau elbowed NDP MP Ruth-Ellen Brosseau in the chest, but itís part of the same troubling pattern.


    If you disagree with Trudeau and his agenda, youíre viewed as sub-human.


    Even on the topic of sexual harassment, the Liberal record is appalling. There are currently five Liberal MPs suspended from caucus for alleged sexual harassment: Scott Andrews, Massimo Pacetti, Hunter Tootoo, Kent Hehr and Darshan Kang.


    On top of that, Claude-…ric Gagnť, a top aide in Trudeauís Prime Ministerís Office, is currently ďon leaveĒ amidst similar allegations.


    Trudeau pretends to champion womenís issues, but his brand of narrow radical feminism is backfiring.


    Trudeau is a fake feminist, and he canít fool real women.


    http://torontosun.com/opinion/column...-fake-feminism

  19. #2319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
    Actually Kenney has been in politics for much longer than Trudeau, at least 20 years now I think. Most of it as a fairly high profile MP from Calgary, he has made a career of politics. Perhaps that explains the lower approval rating, it usually goes down the longer someone is in politics.
    I'm not a UPC supporter or a fan but after 20 years cut Kenny some slack. He's paid his dues.
    I think he is an obnoxious,self righteous, blowhard, so whether he has "paid his dues" or not is not relevant to me. I don't owe him anything and I don't feel the need to suck up to him or kiss his butt.
    I wasn't aware he asked you to do that...lol

  20. #2320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
    Actually Kenney has been in politics for much longer than Trudeau, at least 20 years now I think. Most of it as a fairly high profile MP from Calgary, he has made a career of politics. Perhaps that explains the lower approval rating, it usually goes down the longer someone is in politics.
    He's doing better in Alberta now..I'm thrilled
    His party is doing ok now that he killed of the PC competion, but I don't think he is that well liked. He better hope the party doesn't have a coup before the election like the PC's did in Ontario, when they sensed their former leader wasn't that appealing. I get the sense Jean is quietly waiting in the wings in case something happens.
    I think you'll find Jean is done with politics..

  21. #2321
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Jason Kenney's approval last fall - 38%

    Trudeau's approval rating today - 44%

    ... hmmm, maybe too soon for the Conservatives to break out the champagne.
    Really fair comparison there Dave. JT's been on the national scene now for how long?

    Jason Kenney for how long?
    Actually Kenney has been in politics for much longer than Trudeau, at least 20 years now I think. Most of it as a fairly high profile MP from Calgary, he has made a career of politics. Perhaps that explains the lower approval rating, it usually goes down the longer someone is in politics.
    I'm not a UPC supporter or a fan but after 20 years cut Kenny some slack. He's paid his dues.
    I think he is an obnoxious,self righteous, blowhard, so whether he has "paid his dues" or not is not relevant to me. I don't owe him anything and I don't feel the need to suck up to him or kiss his butt.
    I wasn't aware he asked you to do that...lol
    Hehehehe
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  22. #2322
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    Liberal popularity now 33.7%
    PC popularity now 37.7%

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    ^ Is that Federal or Provincial?
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    Federal obviously. Since when have Liberals ever had 33.7% here. They were up with Lawrence Decore at one time but I doubt that they went to 33.7

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    JT has been slipping in the polls since last October. I'm good with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Federal obviously. Since when have Liberals ever had 33.7% here. They were up with Lawrence Decore at one time but I doubt that they went to 33.7
    Actually on 3 occasions we had a Liberal Premier here in Alberta. You can look it up.
    Last edited by envaneo; 31-03-2018 at 01:41 PM.
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  27. #2327
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    JT has been slipping in the polls since last October. I'm good with that.
    I've never voted liberal or NDP but polls are like riding on a swing, they go up and down.

    What do you think would make Trudeau's approval rating rise during his term? And don't offer up something stupid like "Get out of politics."
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  28. #2328
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    JT has been slipping in the polls since last October. I'm good with that.
    I've never voted liberal or NDP but polls are like riding on a swing, they go up and down.

    What do you think would make Trudeau's approval rating rise during his term? And don't offer up something stupid like "Get out of politics."
    He needs to be in QP more often, he needs to stop with his own petty agenda, and look after the whole country!
    Stop spending for gods same, our debt on every level is getting higher and higher! Stop parading around countries telling them what they must do to be just like him!!
    Last edited by H.L.; 31-03-2018 at 11:32 PM.

  29. #2329
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    I can agree with the scandal stuff but that's mostly media exploiting that. I think Ottawa is taking the right approach doing as far as the criminal justice system goes. Too much catch & release in our communities. Police are getting frustrated. The article link below has mainly to do with Calgary but it applies here as well:

    http://calgarysun.com/news/crime/rev...public-at-risk
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  30. #2330
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    Federal after all we don't have a provincial PC party now.
    Justin could do something for his popularity to rise. But if you look at how long it has taken to legalize marijuana I doubt he'll do much in the coming 16 months left to make himself more popular.
    He could have fired Sajjan or Mourneau to prove he has integrity, but he didn't. More likely he'll do more stupid things like saying there is no money for veterans while paying terrorists millions.

  31. #2331
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    ^ In agreement with everything you said

    Or he could do a carbon tax refund claw back on seniors.
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  32. #2332

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    Doesn't need to do much as the backwards CONS will continue to show they have more in common with the Trump agenda than with Canadian values.

  33. #2333

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    ďCanadian valuesĒ are what?

    Did you sing God save the Queen this morning?

  34. #2334
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    Canadian values?? JT is a little dictator!

  35. #2335

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    Canadian Mosque was vandalized in another Islamophobic hate crime on the weekend:


    https://twitter.com/FJMallon/status/980401017371156480

  36. #2336
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    Canadian values?
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  37. #2337

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ In agreement with everything you said

    Or he could do a carbon tax refund claw back on seniors.
    Wasn't it the Federal PC's that originally brought in the seniors claw back? Around the time they brought in the GST, I think.

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    ^ Yes but look how that turned out.

    The current claw back issue is over Alberta senior residence in a seniors lodge, that they should have to pay 30% of their Alberta carbon credit back to the residence they live in:

    https://globalnews.ca/video/4109666/...bate-claw-back
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Yes but look how that turned out.

    The current claw back issue is over Alberta senior residence in a seniors lodge, that they should have to pay 30% of their Alberta carbon credit back to the residence they live in:

    https://globalnews.ca/video/4109666/...bate-claw-back
    Go seniors!!!

  40. #2340

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Yes but look how that turned out.

    The current claw back issue is over Alberta senior residence in a seniors lodge, that they should have to pay 30% of their Alberta carbon credit back to the residence they live in:

    https://globalnews.ca/video/4109666/...bate-claw-back
    And the government is the one making sense here. The carbon tax rebate is supposed to compensate for extra costs due to the carbon tax. For people who are not paying for any energy and no carbon tax it's income, so it should be taken into account when determining how much to directly subsidise people's housing costs.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Yes but look how that turned out.

    The current claw back issue is over Alberta senior residence in a seniors lodge, that they should have to pay 30% of their Alberta carbon credit back to the residence they live in:

    https://globalnews.ca/video/4109666/...bate-claw-back
    And the government is the one making sense here. The carbon tax rebate is supposed to compensate for extra costs due to the carbon tax. For people who are not paying for any energy and no carbon tax it's income, so it should be taken into account when determining how much to directly subsidise people's housing costs.
    Exactly, where do these seniors get off thinking they are above the income tax act ? Just because you are a senior does not mean you at A) above the law B) get special treatment.

    Oh, just wait till CBC gets hold of these. They'll be wheeling poor unfortunate seniors out in front of the cameras. Who does deserve a break will be the family with young kids just scraping enough dollars to get through the week.

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    ^ Seniors are upset because some property management firms are "taking away 30% of their" carbon tax credit they receive once a year. Its a tax grab. How they "take this away" is the property management firm charges them 30% more per year on seniors rent. It may seem like a small amount but what's next when the Feds introduce their revenue neutral carbon tax? Or the city etc, etc. Not every senior receives a carbon credit.

    Households making in excess of the carbon levy threshold do not receive a carbon credit. Besides Trudeau has already bent over backwards to help the middle class as it is.
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  43. #2343

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Seniors are upset because some property management firms are "taking away 30% of their" carbon tax credit they receive once a year. Its a tax grab. How they "take this away" is the property management firm charges them 30% more per year on seniors rent. It may seem like a small amount but what's next when the Feds introduce their revenue neutral carbon tax? Or the city etc, etc. Not every senior receives a carbon credit.

    Households making in excess of the carbon levy threshold do not receive a carbon credit. Besides Trudeau has already bent over backwards to help the middle class as it is.
    Seniors who don't get the carbon credit aren't in subsidized housing, so they aren't affected.

    When/if a federal carbon tax comes these seniors won't pay more because they don't pay for their own utilities. They'll be fine. They're literally complaining about a carbon tax that gives them free money to "compensate" for expenses that they don't have. Expenses that their housing operator DOES have.

    Again, this is only people in subsidized housing where rent is fixed at 30% of income, and their income has gone up by the carbon tax rebate amount. These are people who haven't seen rent increases due to market forces or increases in the actual cost of providing that housing.
    There can only be one.

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    Cash has been doled out by successive federal governments to the auto and aerospace industries. Now it's our turn, and this will generate dollars for a long time to come.

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    Taxpayers paying for Mr Dithers, no, just no!

  47. #2347

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    Right wing governments give our tax dollars to industry all the bloody time. Spare me the hypocrisy!

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    i think this is a good move for the country even if it is necessitated by previous poor decisions and even poorer execution.

    for better or worse, the kinder morgan pipeline's uncertainty is entirely political and not economical and in that arena the federal government has options that the private sector simply does not, particularly in the face of the repeatedly demonstrated intransigence of other levels of government.

    provincially I think kudos are due to notley as I don’t believe trudeau would have struck a deal with or benefitting kenney. and kudos to trudeau for at least recognizing the corner he has painted the entire country into. i didn’t think the boy wonder had the cognitive ability - or the willingness - to actually do something more meaningful than plan the next hand over heart photo op...
    Last edited by kcantor; 29-05-2018 at 03:55 PM. Reason: typo
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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Right wing governments give our tax dollars to industry all the bloody time. Spare me the hypocrisy!


    What Bull! JT should have pushed this though, KM never asked for bloody money! typical Liberal mentality

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    It's going to cost way way way more than that amount!

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post


    It's going to cost way way way more than that amount!
    i'm not so sure about that...

    the cost of the current pipeline - including all of the rights of way and infrastructure etc. - is 4.5 billion. according to kinder morgan's 2017 annual report, that operation is described as follows:

    "The Trans Mountain pipeline system (TMPL) originates at Edmonton, Alberta and transports crude oil and refined petroleum products to destinations in the interior and on the west coast of British Columbia. The TMPL is 713 miles in length. The capacity of the line at Edmonton ranges from 300 MBbl/d when heavy crude oil represents 20% of the total throughput (which is a historically normal heavy crude oil percentage), to 400 MBbl/d with no heavy crude oil. The TMPL mainline is a common carrier pipeline, providing transportation services under a cost of service model that is negotiated with shippers and regulated by the NEB. Although Trans Mountain takes custody of its shippers’ products, it does not own any of the product it ships. The TMPL system has posted tariff rates that are available to all shippers based on a monthly contract which varies according to the type of product being shipped as well as receipt and delivery points. As such, it provides service to producers, marketers, refineries and terminals who sell or resell products to domestic markets, oil marketers and international shippers moving oil to such places as California, Washington State and Asia."

    as far as i can ascertain, this is what canada bought for 4.5 billion. that same annual report says the trans mountain pipeline contributed 186 million to their bottom line in 2017. that revenue and that price equates to a more than 4% positive annual return making the expense not a net cost but a positive cash flow investment.

    the pipeline expansion has been reported to cost in the 7-7.4 billion range but even kinder morgan would not have been proceeding with that based on a negative return on the incremental investment so, again, an investment by the canadian taxpayer, not a cost. and not included in those investment returns are the monies that will flow directly to alberta and bc and canada in everything from gst payments to income taxes to wcb contributions.

    would it be "nice" if the private sector was able to complete a project of this magnitude in the current political climate? absolutely. but i'm not sure the current political climate is capable of seeing projects of this magnitude completed by the private sector. we all still laud the completion of our two national railways by the private sector as being nation building but i'm not sure even they could be completed in the current political climate and no one is suggesting the country would be better off if they had not been built.
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    We are looking at 12 BILLION dollars, if you're okay with that, fine. I'm not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Right wing governments give our tax dollars to industry all the bloody time. Spare me the hypocrisy!
    What Bull! JT should have pushed this though, KM never asked for bloody money! typical Liberal mentality
    What does "push it through" mean, exactly? Be specific! How do you expect government to force a private corporation to invest in a project that they felt was too risky? I've asked this same question several times now: what exact steps do you feel that Trudeau should have taken over the last 2 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    provincially I think kudos are due to notley as I don’t believe tudeau would have struck a deal with or benefitting kenney. and kudos to trudeau for at least recognizing the corner he has painted the entire country into. i didn’t think the boy wonder had the cognitive ability - or the willingness - to actually do something more meaningful than plan the next hand over heart photo op...
    Same question for you Ken. What specifically should Trudeau have done differently? I know I won't get an answer worth the electrons from HL, but I'm genuinely curious what you think. From where I stand, I have not seen a single Trudeau detractor offer a cogent and specific alternative course of action. Other than, as I said previously, being psychic, predicting the Horgan/Weaver monster, and referring the question of BC unilaterally limiting bitumen shipments to the Supreme Court 2 years ago so that the decision would preempt the silliness happening in BC.

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    ^^^kcantor is correct. The C$4.5 billion purchase price buys the existing TransMountain pipeline system with all of its existing tolls and revenue streams, as well as the expansion project.

    Kinder Morgan statement:

    CALGARY, May 29, 2018 /CNW/ - The Kinder Morgan Canada Limited (TSX: KML) board today announced that the Government of Canada has agreed to purchase the Trans Mountain Pipeline system and the expansion project (TMEP) for C$4.5 billion, and to work with the board to seek a third party buyer for the Trans Mountain Pipeline system and TMEP through July 22, 2018.

    As part of the agreement, the Government of Canada has agreed to fund the resumption of TMEP planning and construction work by guaranteeing TMEP's expenditures under a separate Federal Government recourse credit facility until the transaction closes. The parties expect to close the transaction in the late in the third quarter or early in the fourth quarter of 2018, subject to KML shareholder and applicable regulatory approvals.
    https://ir.kindermorgancanadalimited...-C-4-5-Billion

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    Yes 4.5 for existing pipeline, with Alberta kicking in two billion, and 7.5 billion at the very least for the new one..and we get to pay carbon tax, you guys must be independently wealthy!


    As for pushing it through, now JT and co paid for it, how will this be different? Horgan is still going to court, first nations are still going to protest!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Right wing governments give our tax dollars to industry all the bloody time. Spare me the hypocrisy!
    What Bull! JT should have pushed this though, KM never asked for bloody money! typical Liberal mentality
    What does "push it through" mean, exactly? Be specific! How do you expect government to force a private corporation to invest in a project that they felt was too risky? I've asked this same question several times now: what exact steps do you feel that Trudeau should have taken over the last 2 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    provincially I think kudos are due to notley as I donít believe tudeau would have struck a deal with or benefitting kenney. and kudos to trudeau for at least recognizing the corner he has painted the entire country into. i didnít think the boy wonder had the cognitive ability - or the willingness - to actually do something more meaningful than plan the next hand over heart photo op...
    Same question for you Ken. What specifically should Trudeau have done differently? I know I won't get an answer worth the electrons from HL, but I'm genuinely curious what you think. From where I stand, I have not seen a single Trudeau detractor offer a cogent and specific alternative course of action. Other than, as I said previously, being psychic, predicting the Horgan/Weaver monster, and referring the question of BC unilaterally limiting bitumen shipments to the Supreme Court 2 years ago so that the decision would preempt the silliness happening in BC.
    the question is less what should trudeau have done differently in regard to kinder morgan and more what trudeau should have done differently. what is being done now is not being done in isolation, it is being done in response to a whole series of pipeline and energy and environmental decisions going back to the berger inquiry on the mackenzie valley pipeline (which, interestingly enough, was undertaken while justin's father was prime minister).

    kinder morgan didn't rise to a position of such national prominence and importance that it needed today's actions (the mechanics and timing of which still don't seem to be fully disclosed or transparent) in isolation. trudeau backed the country into a corner when he banned tanker traffic from b.c.'s north coast. trudeau backed the country further into a corner by failing to see trans-canada east approved (a project that would have "traded" tanker traffic in the northeast atlantic and st. lawrence seaway carrying foreign oil for pipelines delivering canadian oil to canadian refineries). if the markets and access to markets for canadian oil were not as limited and fragile as previous policies have made them, then kinder morgan would not have been as necessary from a national perspective.

    the increasingly bureaucratic climate along with the ever moving goalposts of approvals and public consultation and adding things like downstream as well as upstream costs to the equation also contribute to the lessening viability of new projects including kinder morgan ever being approved. in how many jurisdictions and in how many forms and how many times does effectively the same consultation need to take place only to be readjudicated in the courts and then appealed in the courts over and over regardless of the decisions originally rendered?

    if the country had a healthy review and approval mechanism (i.e. one intended to approve and not disapprove) new energy projects, the industry and the economic health of the country would not able to be held to ransom either by the horgan/weaver monster at one end of the country or denis coderre at the other.
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    I guess I'll have to disagree with you that this situation is somehow only the Trudeau family's fault. The review process that was in place for this has, to my understanding, been in place for decades, including the 10 or so years in which Harper and the Conservatives were in power. Only recently have the Liberals brought in the new process that is supposed to make things go more smoothly (I don't pretend to know whether that will be the case or not). The Harper method of trying to ram things through is as much to blame for this as anything else, by stirring up resentment, and they didn't manage to get much done even having done so.

    So it's much like I said: a bunch of hand waving that this is all Trudeau(s)'s fault, but no specific steps he could have taken to move things forward, and a complete pass for past governments not accomplishing much in their own right. This is a national problem, not a Liberal or Conservative or NDP problem. And I don't see any easy solution.

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    Harper rammed things through? really..hmm, I didn't know that..

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    The govt has no problems dishing out billions upon billions to Quebec for their aerospace industry or billions to the fishing industry with no issues but they somehow can't force bc to accept the pipeline will be built?

    Brad wall killed it on bnn this afternoon when he discussed how the liberals have no problems forcing sask to accept a Carbon tax but that same govt refused to get bc to step in line over the pipeline.

    It's only as bad as it is because trudeau failed to get involved earlier.... now tax payers are potentially on the hook.

    Let's hold back money from sask but do nothing to bc over the pipeline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I guess I'll have to disagree with you that this situation is somehow only the Trudeau family's fault. The review process that was in place for this has, to my understanding, been in place for decades, including the 10 or so years in which Harper and the Conservatives were in power. Only recently have the Liberals brought in the new process that is supposed to make things go more smoothly (I don't pretend to know whether that will be the case or not). The Harper method of trying to ram things through is as much to blame for this as anything else, by stirring up resentment, and they didn't manage to get much done even having done so.

    So it's much like I said: a bunch of hand waving that this is all Trudeau(s)'s fault, but no specific steps he could have taken to move things forward, and a complete pass for past governments not accomplishing much in their own right. This is a national problem, not a Liberal or Conservative or NDP problem. And I don't see any easy solution.
    i don't think i said it was "only the trudeau family's fault" and i did start this conversation acknowledging that justin's ultimate decision - and notley's decisions - re kinder morgan deserved kudos.

    and while it is a national problem, not a liberal or conservative or ndp problem, when it comes to pipelines, the non-xl keystone was approved in 2006 and completed in 2010, the alberta clipper was approved in 2008 and competed in 2010, and the line 9 re-reversal was also approved in 2014. in total these gave alberta an additional 1.25 million barrels a day in pipeline capacity albeit none of it was to tidewater.

    northern gateway which was also approved in 2014 would have added another 500,000 barrels a day in export capacity, assuming it's conditions would have been met, until stopped in its tracks by the tanker ban. kinder morgan's completion will add another 600,000 barrels a day of pipeline capacity with most of that presumably destined for export as well.
    Last edited by kcantor; 30-05-2018 at 03:35 PM. Reason: typo
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    We are looking at 12 BILLION dollars, if you're okay with that, fine. I'm not!

    Canada's $9-billion auto sector bailout lacked proper oversight, says Auditor General

    http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/canadas-9-billion-auto-sector-bailout-lacked-proper-oversight-says-auditor-general

    I'm sure you were just foaming at the mouth over this "fiscal atrocity" committed by the Harper government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    The govt has no problems dishing out billions upon billions to Quebec for their aerospace industry or billions to the fishing industry with no issues but they somehow can't force bc to accept the pipeline will be built?

    Brad wall killed it on bnn this afternoon when he discussed how the liberals have no problems forcing sask to accept a Carbon tax but that same govt refused to get bc to step in line over the pipeline.

    It's only as bad as it is because trudeau failed to get involved earlier.... now tax payers are potentially on the hook.

    Let's hold back money from sask but do nothing to bc over the pipeline.
    I don't really understand this. BC has had a carbon tax for years. They've already sacrificed more than Sask has in that regard and they don't even have oil. Furthermore, how does a Quebec company getting tax dollars equate to the need for BC be punished or forced into anything? If that is what is desired, note that BC is also on the hook for this pipeline since they indirectly share in the costs. And yes, they are still the ones carrying the brunt of the environmental risk.

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    Oh the irony... What do planes and cars need to make them work... Oil of course. I'd much rather invest in a pipeline than an auto or plane manufacturer. Let's not forget that Kinder Morgan (a private company) wanted to build the pipeline as it made economic sense. If BC did not drag this through the mud construction would have been well underway.

    My opinion is that BC wanted to block any AB projects while they continue to import gasoline from the US, cut down trees and build (attempted to build) LNG plants to ship product to China. Seems like that is becoming fashionable to prevent people/ provinces from being successful in this country. Very disappointing and not the same country that I came to in 98, Schadenfreude is evident unfortunately. In the mean time, we'll continue to rack up debts that even our children will be paying off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    We are looking at 12 BILLION dollars, if you're okay with that, fine. I'm not!

    Canada's $9-billion auto sector bailout lacked proper oversight, says Auditor General

    http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/canadas-9-billion-auto-sector-bailout-lacked-proper-oversight-says-auditor-general

    I'm sure you were just foaming at the mouth over this "fiscal atrocity" committed by the Harper government.
    We were in a bloody recession!!smarten up!

    In the mean time, we'll continue to rack up debts that even our children will be paying off.
    Between JT and Co and Notley, our children's children will be paying off this debt..

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    The govt has no problems dishing out billions upon billions to Quebec for their aerospace industry or billions to the fishing industry with no issues but they somehow can't force bc to accept the pipeline will be built?

    Brad wall killed it on bnn this afternoon when he discussed how the liberals have no problems forcing sask to accept a Carbon tax but that same govt refused to get bc to step in line over the pipeline.

    It's only as bad as it is because trudeau failed to get involved earlier.... now tax payers are potentially on the hook.

    Let's hold back money from sask but do nothing to bc over the pipeline.
    I don't really understand this. BC has had a carbon tax for years. They've already sacrificed more than Sask has in that regard and they don't even have oil. Furthermore, how does a Quebec company getting tax dollars equate to the need for BC be punished or forced into anything? If that is what is desired, note that BC is also on the hook for this pipeline since they indirectly share in the costs. And yes, they are still the ones carrying the brunt of the environmental risk.
    The liberals will pander to Quebec, Ontario and the Maritimes for all their big industries but will drag their feet on oil and gas. The liberals will also hold money hostage if sask doesnt accept a carbon tax but refused to take a stance with bc.

    When others are saying the liberal govt isnt to blame I would disagree.

    They could have prevented a bail out. They could have intervened much earlier. They certainly don't mind when it comes to bigger issues in every other province other then alberta

  67. #2367

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    This is the one and only thing I'll say about the pipeline purchase.

    The howls by the Conservatives is garbage from those of you who will not pay for what you so loudly say you want. If you want a pipeline, the $4,5 billion is welcome to come out of your pockets.

    It's a strange decision, though -- Notley and Trudeau actually putting what THEY see as the Canadian national interest ahead of votes. The rednecks and bigots and the rest of the degenerates will not give them one extra vote because of this. And the decent people will wonder whether it would not have been better in the long run for the pipeline to die. And vote accordingly, as they decide, one way or the other.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 30-05-2018 at 12:45 AM.

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    the only howling i heard came from the ndp during their press conference. It's almost like their happy that every big oil and gas company wants nothing to do with Canada.

    The high fiving with all the cheering is not what I would have expected to see/hear.

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    I think its a good investment. And didn't Trudeau said he'd sell it later:

    https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...it-again-soon/


    Maybe JT could sell it back to KM or even better to the Spirit Eagle pipeline group:

    http://business.financialpost.com/co...town-in-alaska
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  70. #2370

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    We are looking at 12 BILLION dollars, if you're okay with that, fine. I'm not!

    Canada's $9-billion auto sector bailout lacked proper oversight, says Auditor General

    http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/canadas-9-billion-auto-sector-bailout-lacked-proper-oversight-says-auditor-general

    I'm sure you were just foaming at the mouth over this "fiscal atrocity" committed by the Harper government.
    We were in a bloody recession!!smarten up!

    In the mean time, we'll continue to rack up debts that even our children will be paying off.
    Between JT and Co and Notley, our children's children will be paying off this debt..
    Just a short note, the provincial and federal debts are not just from the current leaders but decades of government mismanagement. All you have to do is look at the Heritage Trust Fund compared to the Norway model.

    As another point, we are just clawing back a small fraction of the transfer payments we made over the decades, most of which was shipped to the eastern provinces.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Horgan just said on the news, he doesn't care who owns it, he's going to hold it up in court!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    The high fiving with all the cheering is not what I would have expected to see/hear.
    Gathering with her legislature caucus was likely intended to be a show of unity that sends a message to the "holier than thou" contingent within the party that has never been comfortable with the Notley government staking its re-election on getting an oil pipeline to tidewater built.

    The cheers and high fiving may have been more about relief about getting this far than celebration. Notley and her senior ministers have been under tremendous pressure the past few months to deliver on their promise to get the Trans Mountain expansion built. Getting the feds to upfront the entire cost of buying the existing pipeline and funding the expansion with the province only providing a financial backstop has to rank as a coup of sorts for Notley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    the only howling i heard came from the ndp during their press conference. It's almost like their happy that every big oil and gas company wants nothing to do with Canada.

    The high fiving with all the cheering is not what I would have expected to see/hear.
    It was funny, I LOL, those dirty pipelines ain't so dirty..lol

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    Buda bing: What about the debacle over bailing out Bombardier? That seems to be ok right?

    At the moment I see this as a good move for Canada and more importantly for Alberta/BC.

    Horgan is holding on to a puppet regime as he has to answer to his Green MLA masters that put him in power.

    Buda boom: At one fuel tanker/day is not a lot to complain about. Lets not forget about the Daniel Smith expose that the Greens aren't talking about.
    Last edited by envaneo; 30-05-2018 at 02:08 PM.
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    in other words. "Lucy you have some splaining to do,"
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  76. #2376

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    We are looking at 12 BILLION dollars, if you're okay with that, fine. I'm not!

    Canada's $9-billion auto sector bailout lacked proper oversight, says Auditor General

    http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/canadas-9-billion-auto-sector-bailout-lacked-proper-oversight-says-auditor-general

    I'm sure you were just foaming at the mouth over this "fiscal atrocity" committed by the Harper government.
    We were in a bloody recession!!smarten up!
    So what? Canada would have survived without the auto bailout, and it would survive without the pipeline. In fact, it is primarily conservatives that are obsessed with bloody pipelines, almost like the economic future of Canada is dependent on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    We are looking at 12 BILLION dollars, if you're okay with that, fine. I'm not!

    Canada's $9-billion auto sector bailout lacked proper oversight, says Auditor General

    http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/canadas-9-billion-auto-sector-bailout-lacked-proper-oversight-says-auditor-general

    I'm sure you were just foaming at the mouth over this "fiscal atrocity" committed by the Harper government.
    We were in a bloody recession!!smarten up!
    So what? Canada would have survived without the auto bailout, and it would survive without the pipeline. In fact, it is primarily conservatives that are obsessed with bloody pipelines, almost like the economic future of Canada is dependent on them.
    No it isnt, JT knows that\s where the money is, no matter how he loves to paint himself as green..the NDP see right through that arrogant nutcase

  78. #2378

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    Justin Trudeau: Platform offers look at future of Liberal party | National Post
    April 14, 2013

    “— Natural resources: Trudeau is opposed to the proposed Northern Gateway pipeline to carry bitumen from Alberta’s oilsands to the B.C. coast, but is open to other, less environmentally problematic pipeline proposals. He supports the contentious Keystone XL pipeline, which would transport bitumen from northern Alberta to Gulf Coast refineries.

    He supports foreign ownership, including by state-owned enterprises like China’s CNOOC, in the oilsands and other Canadian resources.

    He favours putting a price on carbon but has not specified whether that would be through a carbon tax, cap and trade, regulation or some combination. He would not attempt to reinstate the hated national energy program instituted by his father.”

    http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...beral-platform

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Lets not forget about the Daniel Smith expose that the Greens aren't talking about.
    Could you refersh my memory on that? What was the expose?

  80. #2380

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    Back in the 1950s - John Diefenbaker, Leslie Frost and hundreds of millions of dollars:

    St. Lawrence Seaway - The Canadian Encyclopedia

    Excerpts:

    The Seaway was opened to commercial traffic 25 April 1959. The official opening on 26 June 1959 was attended by Prime Minister John Diefenbaker, President Dwight D. Eisenhower and Queen Elizabeth II.
    ...

    Seaway Economics
    The expenditure of public funds on the Seaway was not without opposition. The construction of the Seaway was considered by the railways and East Coast ports to be unfair subsidized competition. Shippers, although in favour of the Seaway, opposed implementation of tolls. The original St Lawrence section of the Seaway cost Canada $330 million and the US $130 million. Canada paid a further $300 million to improve the Welland Canal. ...”

    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...wrence-seaway/



    St. Lawrence Seaway: ‘Get out of the way and let us get on with the job’


    “Ontario Premier Leslie Frost lends his voice to the cause. Frost, in a typically Canadian, polite and understated way, asks the U.S. to step aside so that Canada go it alone. O'Hearn says the usually mild-mannered Frost is emphatic when he declares "our good neighbours to the south had decided in their wisdom not to come in with us. They have made that decision. Now we ask them to please, get out of the way and let us get on with the job."

    http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/st-...n-with-the-job
    Last edited by KC; 30-05-2018 at 06:37 PM.

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    As usual, Trevor Tombe has put out a good article without the usual partisan BS: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...hase-1.4683222

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    I liked the first comment...
    Buying Kinder Morgan is a terrible choice for Trudeau. He needed to stand up to BC and cut off all federal transfers of money to BC. The basic problem is that it has become impossible to do business in Canada due to regulations and government incompetence. That is the problem Trudeau needs to solve, even if it means his own resignation. Trudeau is not up to the job of standing up to BC.
    Applause!

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Lets not forget about the Daniel Smith expose that the Greens aren't talking about.
    Could you refersh my memory on that? What was the expose?

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4141162/d...mpression=true
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Lets not forget about the Daniel Smith expose that the Greens aren't talking about.
    Could you refersh my memory on that? What was the expose?

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4141162/d...mpression=true
    As I’ve suggested before, the whole climate change threat has pushed all kinds of more immediate environmental threats off the the table.

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    After a year of playing nice with Trump, Trudeau declares war on the American gherkin

    "We will continue to make arguments based on logic and common sense," he said, "and hope that eventually they will prevail against an administration that doesn't always align itself around those principles."

    About the only thing he can do now that Trump has decided to attack his allies.

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    ^Canada and the countries affected are America's allies. This is (imo) just a Trump negotiating tactic, a bargaining chip. Shades of the George W. Bush experiment when "W" tried to do the same thing. It backfired on him. Sure, this is quite some time later. But now Trump is imposing these tariffs not just on Canada but Mexico and the EU. The real elephant in the room is China. Now I'm no expert on trade but the steps JT is imposing is going to hurt America pro Trump states the worst. A trade war hurts everyone. The thing is, there is safety in numbers. These tariff's are going to hurt both countries short term. Its bad business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^Canada and the countries affected are America's allies. This is (imo) just a Trump negotiating tactic, a bargaining chip. Shades of the George W. Bush experiment when "W" tried to do the same thing. It backfired on him. Sure, this is quite some time later. But now Trump is imposing these tariffs not just on Canada but Mexico and the EU. The real elephant in the room is China. Now I'm no expert on trade but the steps JT is imposing is going to hurt America pro Trump states the worst. A trade war hurts everyone. The thing is, there is safety in numbers. These tariff's are going to hurt both countries short term. Its bad business.

    JT should have been with Trump, like he is in the hOC..he must of known the kissing @ss doesn't work on Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    provincially I think kudos are due to notley as I donít believe trudeau would have struck a deal with or benefitting kenney. and kudos to trudeau for at least recognizing the corner he has painted the entire country into. i didnít think the boy wonder had the cognitive ability - or the willingness - to actually do something more meaningful than plan the next hand over heart photo op...

    The Guardian - Did Canada Buy An Oil Pipeline In Fear Of Being Sued By China?

    The logic to Trudeauís action may lie in an obscure and often overlooked agreement called the Canada-China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (Fipa).

    This agreement, ratified in 2014, was negotiated by the previous Harper government. It was passed without a vote in Parliament. Fipa, which remains in place until 2045, was signed to ensure that China got a pipeline built from Alberta to BC, among other benefits.

    By then, China was already investing heavily in the oil sands. In 2009, PetroChina bought a 60% interest in two undeveloped oil sands projects, containing an estimated 5bn barrels of oil. And in 2013, the Chinese state-owned CNOOC purchased the third-largest Canadian oil and gas company, Nexen, for $15.1bn. China needs the oil to help fuel its industrial growth.

    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    I'm not Liberal or NDP but I sure like what JT and Notley are doing now.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    provincially I think kudos are due to notley as I donít believe trudeau would have struck a deal with or benefitting kenney. and kudos to trudeau for at least recognizing the corner he has painted the entire country into. i didnít think the boy wonder had the cognitive ability - or the willingness - to actually do something more meaningful than plan the next hand over heart photo op...

    The Guardian - Did Canada Buy An Oil Pipeline In Fear Of Being Sued By China?

    The logic to Trudeauís action may lie in an obscure and often overlooked agreement called the Canada-China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (Fipa).

    This agreement, ratified in 2014, was negotiated by the previous Harper government. It was passed without a vote in Parliament. Fipa, which remains in place until 2045, was signed to ensure that China got a pipeline built from Alberta to BC, among other benefits.

    By then, China was already investing heavily in the oil sands. In 2009, PetroChina bought a 60% interest in two undeveloped oil sands projects, containing an estimated 5bn barrels of oil. And in 2013, the Chinese state-owned CNOOC purchased the third-largest Canadian oil and gas company, Nexen, for $15.1bn. China needs the oil to help fuel its industrial growth.

    Interesting article. Thanks.

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    Very interesting. I wanted to mention too that Stockell Day was saying on power and politics that the oil and gas, lpg etc to be shipped to China would also be replacing and offsetting a coal burning industrial base which would be greener than the present system by quite a lot. Environmentalists could take note of that I guess. Something that could be mentioned more often. Kind of ironic that BC exports so much of the coal to Asia. Tumbler ridge, elkford-sparwood and other giant mines.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 02-06-2018 at 11:03 AM.

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    ^^Interesting only insofar as the Guardian opinion writer engages in what could mostly charitably be described as borderline conspiracy theories.

    The writer starts with the premise that the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion couldn't possibly be in the national interest. So he sets out trying to find some alternative explanation for why the Trudeau government approved the expansion and is now trying to ensure it actually gets built. That's the kind of thinking conspiracy theorists engage in.

    One of the biggest myths being peddled by the Guardian writer and other opponents is that the only product that will ever be shipped in the Trans Mountain pipeline is diluted bitumen. He even makes the ridiculous claim that the expansion will be at the expense of oil refining jobs in Canada.

    It's an oil products pipeline, not a bitumen pipeline. Over time, the composition of the oil products shipped will likely change to include lighter grades of Alberta oil as well as more semi and fully refined products.

    Just as the existing Trans Mountain pipeline functions today.
    The Trans Mountain Pipeline transports crude oil, semi-refined and refined products in a series in the same pipeline. This process is known as “batching.” Think of it as a “batch train,” with one product following another product through the pipeline during a specific time period. It’s like a series of rail cars carrying different products moving in a sequence along the 1,150-kilometre pipeline.
    https://www.transmountain.com/product

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    Then why didn’t they start shipping bitumen down the old line(s) and present a case for a new pipeline to handle mostly refined products?
    Last edited by KC; 02-06-2018 at 11:26 AM.

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    ^Since the largely groundless fear in BC is around bitumen spills, using a brand new state of the art pipeline to ship what is perceived to be a more hazardous product also makes sense. Space on the existing pipeline is then freed up to ship more refined products.

    More Canadians should be aware (and outraged) about YVR Airport's decision to build a new jet fuel pipeline and marine terminal on the Fraser River that would import jet fuel from the US and Asia, rather than expand an existing jet fuel pipeline from Trans Mountains' Westridge Terminal that is supplied by Alberta.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-yvr-1.4675302

    Until now, opponents have been allowed to establish the narrative about the Trans Mountain expansion. The Alberta government's online advertising campaign is helping to dispel some of the untruths being peddled by opponents. Now that they are about to become owners, the federal government would be well-advised to do this as well. Give Canadians (especially Lower Mainland residents) the facts about why the Trans Mountain expansion project is in the national interest.

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    East McCauley:

    I thought the article was interesting mostly because it brought up the clause in the FIPA that allows China to sue if the pipeline doesn't get built. I had been unaware of that particular issue.

    The Guardian is one of the international properties with a serious Justin-fetish, so yeah, it's possible they're looking for an excuse to exonerate him for supporting the pipeline, while placing all the blame on Harper. However, if the FIPA really does say what the Guardian claims it does, that may very well be a factor influencing his decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    However, if the FIPA really does say what the Guardian claims it does, that may very well be a factor influencing his decision.
    Whatever the Guardian's slant is in that article FIPA exists and the federal government is obligated to see that the agreement is followed or assess the risks of not adhering to it. Plus it is empowered to see to see it through. So when BC takes this to the supreme court this could be an important consideration in terms of jurisdictional authority.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 03-06-2018 at 04:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Very interesting. I wanted to mention too that Stockell Day was saying on power and politics that the oil and gas, lpg etc to be shipped to China would also be replacing and offsetting a coal burning industrial base which would be greener than the present system by quite a lot. Environmentalists could take note of that I guess. Something that could be mentioned more often. Kind of ironic that BC exports so much of the coal to Asia. Tumbler ridge, elkford-sparwood and other giant mines.
    thatís a little like comparing apples and oranges..

    iím pretty sure all of bcís export coal is coking coal used in steel production, not thermal coal used in power generation (their properties are quite different). and while steel is sometimes recycled using electricity (even if itís coal fired generation electricity), itís still almost impossible to produce new steel without coal.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    overoceans:

    Bruce Livesey is engaging in a very creative reading of the Canada-China Foreign Investment Protection Agreement. These types of bilateral investment treaties are becoming commonplace. Essentially, they protect Chinese investments in Canada from arbitrary state actions, and the same protection is provided to Canadian investments in China. The text of the agreement is available here: http://international.gc.ca/trade-com....aspx?lang=eng

    Livesey's article is an opinion piece in The Guardian, and does not represent the position of The Guardian anymore than an opinion article from the Fraser Institute or the Parkland Institute that appears in the Edmonton Journal.

    Bruce Livesey is the lead investigative reporter for the National Observer, a left leaning online publication based out of Vancouver which has made opposition to the Trans Mountain expansion project a major preoccupation in the past few years.

    More information on Livesey here: https://www.nationalobserver.com/u/bruce-livesey

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    I like how Justin's eyebrow wig fell off while he was talking at the G7 - ha ha!

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=aN6HH_1528604531

    Trump is an oaf, but our guy is such a clown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I like how Justin's eyebrow wig fell off while he was talking at the G7 - ha ha!

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=aN6HH_1528604531

    Trump is an oaf, but our guy is such a clown.
    I feel sorry for the people who voted for him because he had nice hair.

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