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Thread: Premier Notley's Second Year

  1. #701

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    Bingo.

    There's also people who work for the government & aren't unionized nor are they anywhere near the sunshine list level of compensation. They've already had freezes, their variable pay reduced/removed & so forth in the last two years, but because they're outside the scope of the unions they're effectively on their own & as mid-level employees they don't have enough weight on their own to affect any change for themselves. Meanwhile the right-wingers & quasi-conservatives call for rollbacks & more, making any progress or change politically volatile.
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  2. #702

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita.
    Yes, yes, you've been quite clear in stating & restating your belief that the higher wages & standard of living should apply to all Albertans except for those that work for the government (or unions), because the government/unions is evil or they're all lazy or some other claptrap you've gleaned from the National Post or the Sun or The Rebel or wherever you get your dose of conservative rhetoric.

    *YAWN*
    Average per capital wages in the private sector in Alberta are also higher than the average of other provinces. Say if those above average in the private sector are all willing to take say a 15% cut, then it would make sense for the government to do like wise. If they are not willing, then they shouldn't whine about it.
    A lot of people in the private sector, who still have jobs (unlike government workers whose positions are guaranteed for life), have taken cuts in that region.

    http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...rpaid-oilpatch

    Canada’s largest independent oil and gas producer revealed staff at its offices in Calgary and Aberdeen in Scotland will have their pay cut by as much as 10 per cent as it opts to reduce salaries rather than eliminate staff to align its cost structure with what’s seen as the new normal for oil prices.
    PHX Energy Services, which cut salaries 20 per cent earlier this year, blamed the uncertainty around oil prices as it laid off nearly half its workforce Friday, cutting more than 500 jobs. With the oil price plunge, job security has become a major preoccupation across the oil and gas industry – and for good reason. Those aren’t jobs you’d want to lose.
    The government can cut wages, or cut staff, by not taking action sooner, Notley is just forcing more pain when a fiscally responsible government comes in. The private sector has right sized, its been painful. Its the governments turn now, because it is $10b a year unsustainable right now, about two LRT lines every year of over spending.
    Last edited by moahunter; 30-11-2017 at 04:41 PM.

  3. #703

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    "Guaranteed for life"

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    "fiscally responsible"

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHAHAHAHHA

    You're hilarious moa, that's the funniest thing you've said since "tax cuts pay for themselves".
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Tax and spend is right out of the Left playbook.
    So we should tax & not spend? Spend & not tax? What's your right-wing playbook on this?
    I'm not Right Wing. I'm Centre. I'm more of a Ed Stelmach kind of guy. In my wheelhouse we leave the coal industry alone, no pst for starters.
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  5. #705

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita.
    Yes, yes, you've been quite clear in stating & restating your belief that the higher wages & standard of living should apply to all Albertans except for those that work for the government (or unions), because the government/unions is evil or they're all lazy or some other claptrap you've gleaned from the National Post or the Sun or The Rebel or wherever you get your dose of conservative rhetoric.

    *YAWN*
    Average per capital wages in the private sector in Alberta are also higher than the average of other provinces. Say if those above average in the private sector are all willing to take say a 15% cut, then it would make sense for the government to do like wise. If they are not willing, then they shouldn't whine about it.
    A lot of people in the private sector, who still have jobs (unlike government workers whose positions are guaranteed for life), have taken cuts in that region.

    http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...rpaid-oilpatch

    Canada’s largest independent oil and gas producer revealed staff at its offices in Calgary and Aberdeen in Scotland will have their pay cut by as much as 10 per cent as it opts to reduce salaries rather than eliminate staff to align its cost structure with what’s seen as the new normal for oil prices.
    PHX Energy Services, which cut salaries 20 per cent earlier this year, blamed the uncertainty around oil prices as it laid off nearly half its workforce Friday, cutting more than 500 jobs. With the oil price plunge, job security has become a major preoccupation across the oil and gas industry – and for good reason. Those aren’t jobs you’d want to lose.
    The government can cut wages, or cut staff, by not taking action sooner, Notley is just forcing more pain when a fiscally responsible government comes in. The private sector has right sized, its been painful. Its the governments turn now, because it is $10b a year unsustainable right now, about two LRT lines every year of over spending.
    I doubt the UCP will be any more "fiscally responsible" than its predecessor party which which was running deficits for years when oil was still close to $100/barrel. At least the current government has the excuse of much lower oil prices.

    Even with some cuts in the private sector, average Alberta wages are still above the average of other provinces (now only 15% above vs. 20% previously).

    I have a feeling with oil prices starting to increase, some of those private sector cuts will soon be reversed. I guess it makes sense for people in the energy industry to get paid more to ride the oil and gas roller coaster, but not everyone else in the province is paid as well and doesn't benefit as much from the upside.

  6. #706

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    That's their own dumb fault for not riding the oil train Dave, just like those lazy union workers & parasitic government employees!
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  7. #707
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    ^ Lazy union workers? That's very un left wing of you noodle.
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  8. #708

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Tax and spend is right out of the Left playbook.
    So we should tax & not spend? Spend & not tax? What's your right-wing playbook on this?
    I'm not Right Wing. I'm Centre. I'm more of a Ed Stelmach kind of guy. In my wheelhouse we leave the coal industry alone, no pst for starters.
    I'm actually not a big fan of PST myself either but my point for those people who don't want a deficit is we have choices. As I see it we actually have three choices: first, belt tightening and gradually reducing the deficit as the economy improves; second, large cuts to services to eliminate the deficit faster or third, get a new revenue source such as PST to the eliminate the deficit.

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    ^ The AG will have a new revenue source called Pot.
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  10. #710

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ lazy union workers? That's very un left wing of you noodle.
    *whooooosh*
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    That's their own dumb fault for not riding the oil train Dave, just like those lazy union workers & parasitic government employees!
    The only parasites I recall are those thrown out of office in Alberta and Ottawa most recently.

  12. #712

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    I didn't think I'd have to start labeling my sarcasm as sarcasm, but I guess I should going forward.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  13. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I'm actually not a big fan of PST myself either but my point for those people who don't want a deficit is we have choices. As I see it we actually have three choices: first, belt tightening and gradually reducing the deficit as the economy improves; second, large cuts to services to eliminate the deficit faster or third, get a new revenue source such as PST to the eliminate the deficit.
    No one wants to pay more taxes. But this province has a serious public revenue problem that won't be fixed by belt tightening and an improving economy alone. The shale revolution has pretty much guaranteed that the world will never see $100 per barrel oil again and certainly not for a sustained period of time. This means that the oil and gas revenue windfall Alberta's public finances experienced during most of the 2000 to 2014 period is not likely to be repeated. A sales tax that brings our revenue streams closer to those of provinces like B.C. and Saskatchewan seems inevitable. I have this secret hope that at least one of Alberta's political parties recognizes this and makes the need for a sales tax into a major election issue in 2019.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I didn't think I'd have to start labeling my sarcasm as sarcasm, but I guess I should going forward.
    I thought it was pretty obvious.

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    ^ Me, too. Some on here wouldn't spot a bit of sarcasm if you bashed them over the head with it.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ lazy union workers? That's very un left wing of you noodle.
    *whooooosh*
    My attempt at subtle sarcasm, a bomb that never exploded. Sigh.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^and we all know what would happen if there was a PST. There would be no balanced budget, instead, there would be a ton of social housing going up all over the place and an end to the civil service pay freeze - the more money you give a drunken sailor, the more they spend.
    Yup, Illinois is a highly taxed state, with many toll roads, Chicago is tied for the worst taxes in any US city, both have extreme deficits, their roads are not particularly well maintained. They don't have a revenue problem, but like Alberta a spending problem.

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    LOL Think of the cash cow the QE 2 would generate as a toll road. The AG could nickel & dime us into the poor house.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  19. #719

    Default UCP MLA criticized for calling new Calgary Cancer Centre a 'fancy box'

    I don't know all the in's and out's of the design, but I think its reasonable that we ask some questions why an option that was bid $200m less and 8 months quicker completion, was not chosen over the PCL winning bid,

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...jken-1.4429381

    Describing the Calgary Cancer Centre as a "fancy box" in the legislature has brought a United Conservative Party MLA under fire from the provincial*Infrastructure minister.

    During question period Thursday, UCP MLA Glenn van Dijken asked Infrastructure Minister Sandra Jansen to explain why the NDP government had chosen to go with a $1.122-billion bid to build the cancer centre, which was $206 million more than the lowest option.

    "At the end of the day, we are building a box — mind you, a fancy box*—*to do the job of treating cancer patients," said van Dijken.

    In an interview with CBC News on Friday, Jansen said she was stunned by the comment.
    $200m is a heck of a lot of money. I sure hope this hospital doesn't end up going over budget and cost $1.5b... Oh well, its not like its our money, and its being built in Calgary which always gets the best stuff, so maybe its just a given...

  20. #720

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^and we all know what would happen if there was a PST. There would be no balanced budget, instead, there would be a ton of social housing going up all over the place and an end to the civil service pay freeze - the more money you give a drunken sailor, the more they spend.
    Yup, Illinois is a highly taxed state, with many toll roads, Chicago is tied for the worst taxes in any US city, both have extreme deficits, their roads are not particularly well maintained. They don't have a revenue problem, but like Alberta a spending problem.
    The old "they don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem", must be one of the favorite cut and paste sayings of conservatives around the world, whether it is relevant or not. In Alberta's case when oil and natural gas prices went down considerably, so did royalties and other revenues to the province - so actually there is a revenue problem. You can ignore it or dismiss it with pithy conservative bromides, but it doesn't make it go away.

    Now I don't know anything about Illinois and what its fiscal situation is. I don't think it would be very comparable to Alberta - first the US system is a bit different than Canada's in terms of the taxes states can levy and I believe their economy is more manufacturing based as opposed to resource based. Perhaps their economy may be a bit more comparable to Ontario, but I doubt it is very similar to Alberta's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?

  22. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?
    I do not think people disagree with paying for all of the above, the problem is that govt workers tend to have A) higher pay, B) higher levels of unionization , C) increased job security D) a publicly funded pension.

    I may have posted ( or may have read) that in Germany govt workers receive lower pay for recognition for job security. You simply cannot have everything.

  23. #723

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?
    Klein showed what cuts and deferred infrastructure maintenance can do.

    He was bringing an end to deficit spending and reliance on debt, and the majority of voters approved of his actions.

    He also showed what rising oil and gas prices can do. Remember that Klein’s glory years cane before the gory years of horizontal drilling crashed natural gas prices, and Klein’s term ended shortly before oil hit $140/bbl and ended well before oil prices crashed. Klein had pretty good “luck of curcumstance” going for him. However if prices hadn’t recovered he was doing what would have eventually been unavoidable, no matter who was in power. He was doing what seemed in the early 1990s to the majority of voters, like the only alternative at that time because the hoped for return to boom conditions and rising oil and gas prices then seemed to be dashed and resource price increases were not in the cards.

    Come coward the the election of the NDP and I would say that voters again voted for what they felt was an appropriate course of action.



    Klein served from 1992-2006 and in that time natural gas prices initially hovered aroun $2/GJ but spiked upwards to $4 then to $8 then to $14/GJ.



    And remember the earlyier says and the Canadian dollar moving down toward 50-cents/US - while our oil was priced in USD.




    https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/p...parabolic1.png
    Last edited by KC; 04-12-2017 at 12:46 AM.

  24. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?
    I do not think people disagree with paying for all of the above, the problem is that govt workers tend to have A) higher pay, B) higher levels of unionization , C) increased job security D) a publicly funded pension.

    I may have posted ( or may have read) that in Germany govt workers receive lower pay for recognition for job security. You simply cannot have everything.
    Very good points! thankyou..

  25. #725

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?
    I do not think people disagree with paying for all of the above, the problem is that govt workers tend to have A) higher pay, B) higher levels of unionization , C) increased job security D) a publicly funded pension.

    I may have posted ( or may have read) that in Germany govt workers receive lower pay for recognition for job security. You simply cannot have everything.
    Very good points! thankyou..
    Well, a key assumption for this to work well is that other sectors have stable level of pay, maybe that is the case in Germany I don't know, but in Alberta the energy industry fluctuates a lot. Say year one is a good year and the energy worker makes $100,000 and the government worker makes $75,000. Now lets say the energy sector has a bad year and they only make $65,000 in year two. What do we do then, cut the government workers pay by $10,000? To further complicate this say in year 3 the energy sector recovers somewhat and the energy worker makes $80,000.

    Another logical problem is that some people say introducing a PST will only cause governments to spend more. It has been pointed out the Ontario and BC both spend less per capita than Alberta and they have PST or the provincial component of GST, so it actually seems to have the opposite effect in practice.

    I also think Ontario and BC may have much lower per capita spending as their population is more concentrated in small regions of their provinces (lower mainland and GTA). It is probably cheaper/easier to deliver services in large urban areas. The per capita difference between Alberta and other provinces is not as great. It is closer to 15%, which is the average wage difference between Alberta and the rest of Canada.

  26. #726

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    Great points!

    However, in Alberta energy prices have driven population growth and so the demand for more nurses, teachers, development officers, etc. Everything in the government and the private sector expands. Unfortunately the nature of government services is that much increased demand does not then shrink with falling energy prices. It’s like a couple that gets paid a great income for a few years and goes out and mortgages their future on a huge house, has more kids etc. And when theirr income tumbles they are stuck with their past decisions.

    Here, when oil and gas prices are high, capital rushes into the province, royalty and land sales revenues spike upwards, the government of the day embraces oil sector expansion and the government does all it can to facilitate new labour coming to the province. Those workers buy houses, create demands for new, bigger and better infrastructure, new schools, new hospitals new or expanded water treatment plants, landfills, you name it - population increases and a vibrant economy drive up costs of living and create long-term commitments and major government budgetary problems.

    When oil prices tumble those in the private sector find their work slows down or vanishes and they take pay cuts to keep their jobs but they don’t stop going to the hospital or sending their kids to school. That demand stays near constant.

    Industry attracts people here and that forces government to take on debt to expand everything for those new people. They create lasting demand while the industry walks away from Alberta. Industry simply sells off, writes off and lays off money losers and often just leaves. Albertans though don’t like seeing lives crash, house values and all other asset values crashing, so the government is expected to pick up the slack.

    So to base government spending which by its nature is very different from the economics of an energy sector that is historically and predictably extremely volatile due to the nature of the commodities is just foolish mismanagement.
    Last edited by KC; 04-12-2017 at 05:38 PM.

  27. #727

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    ^population growth doesn't explain why our government spends considerably more per capita than average for Canada. There is a ton of waste right now, but lets see what the UCP does. I expect they will tell every government department find 20% to 25% savings. Some government departments can probably even be eliminated. It wouldn't surprise me if government departments are all ramping up their spends right now in anticipation of it happening, so that they come down from a higher base. There have been massive cut backs in spending in the private sector, the same has to happen in the public sector, we just can't afford the price we are being charged - lets face it, even though we pay more, the service is no better than what other provinces get, so we are overpaying right now.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-12-2017 at 05:56 PM.

  28. #728

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    Yeah, under the UCP we can expect a lot of layoffs and salary cuts (directly or via privatization).

    I can’t see any alternative. I’d expect a possible furthering of the NDP’s tax rate cuts to small business tax rates and a reversal of the NDPs larger business tax increases.

    Also doing away with the Carbon Tax which has been as close as we could ever have expected to getting a provincial sales tax.

    Then the UCP will stop borrowing.

    So that means a massive reduction in assured government revenues in the hopes of spurring on a massive expansion to make up the difference.

    It’s a gamble but it might work. It will create a lag when I’d expect a crashing if the Edmonton economy and house prices etc. But I’m often wrong on that predicting the future stuff.

  29. #729

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^population growth doesn't explain why our government spends considerably more per capita than average for Canada. There is a ton of waste right now, but lets see what the UCP does. I expect they will tell every government department find 20% to 25% savings. Some government departments can probably even be eliminated. It wouldn't surprise me if government departments are all ramping up their spends right now in anticipation of it happening, so that they come down from a higher base. There have been massive cut backs in spending in the private sector, the same has to happen in the public sector, we just can't afford the price we are being charged - lets face it, even though we pay more, the service is no better than what other provinces get, so we are overpaying right now.
    How much of the difference does population growth explain?

    Per capita still increases when there’s a heavy front loading of costs.

    Agree that when tens of billions of dollars are no longer flooding into the province, massive cuts are simply inevitable.
    Last edited by KC; 04-12-2017 at 06:22 PM.

  30. #730

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    Year 1992 = 2,543, 237
    Klein is elected and soon starts to take on the debt/deficit via cuts

    Year 2000 = 2,879,743
    Oil prices started to rise, positive oil developments started to occur

    Year 2015 = 4,108,400
    Reversal of oil prices

    1.2 million people increase since 2000.
    That’s like adding another Edmonton or Calgary to the province
    (since the point where Klein had cut costs and not received a major bailout by rising global oil and natural gas prices).

    Adding 1.3 million people represents a major expansion in necessary government services, schools, hospitals, infrastructure. Hiring the workers during a boom also embeds higher costs in the system in terms of pension obligations, etc.


    http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/...Population.pdf
    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...emo02a-eng.htm

  31. #731
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    So how much of the popular vote will Big Arse capture on Thursday ?

    Top_Dawg predicts he will get 67%.

    What do youz guyz think ?

  32. #732

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    ^82%. Turnout will be tiny.

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    Now that would be a stinging rebuke for ol' scarecrow.

    Actually Top_Dawg expects a good turnout.

  34. #734

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    Tiny turnout for sure.

    Kenny doesn't get people excited.
    UCP doesn't get people excited.
    Even the carbon tax rebellion people aren't excited, thanks to the perception that Kenny's greasy beige rule is inevitable.

    Kenny will win small because retired people vote even when not excited.
    There can only be one.

  35. #735

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    ^I think you have that wrong, retired people vote conservative and are traditional on social issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Kenny will win BIG (not small) because retired people vote even when not excited.

  36. #736

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I think you have that wrong, retired people vote conservative and are regressive on social issues.
    Let's be honest here.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  37. #737

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I think you have that wrong, retired people vote conservative and are traditional on social issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Kenny will win BIG (not small) because retired people vote even when not excited.

    I have to admit I haven't even looked at who's running against him until right now. But it might be important to note that there are a couple right-of-UCP candidates in there, with names that I recognise.
    There can only be one.

  38. #738

    Default

    ^this is about as safe a seat as can be (Harpers seat covered this area). Middle class sprawl suburb = PC / Conservative vote.

  39. #739

    Default

    If Kenny wins and wins big the bigger his ego. He'll be the male equivalent of Redford. Walk of water, arrogant to the core.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." ľMark Twain

  40. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    If Kenny wins and wins big the bigger his ego. He'll be the male equivalent of Redford. Walk of water, arrogant to the core.
    He's much nicer than that red Tory *****...

  41. #741

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Now that would be a stinging rebuke for ol' scarecrow.

    Actually Top_Dawg expects a good turnout.
    With all the insulting of her looks, I gather you'd rather bury that muzzle in Kenney's arse?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  42. #742

    Default

    First round results of the REP announced:



    https://www.aeso.ca/market/renewable...und-1-results/
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  43. #743
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    Wow, dirt cheap! Half the price of what Ontario got last year.

  44. #744

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    And because they'll use existing distribution & transmission infrastructure the non-consumption-based charges on the bill should not be impacted by the REP facilities.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  45. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    And because they'll use existing distribution & transmission infrastructure the non-consumption-based charges on the bill should not be impacted by the REP facilities.
    It's fantastic news. I like that so many companies were interested. That capital power is in the mix. And that the pricing and rebate scheme is entirely market driven rather than the other way around.

    They'll need a few more of these bidding rounds to really make a dent in our mix. I think our installed coal capacity is around 6GW, so this round isn't insignificant.

    The bid requirement of operational in 2019 seems optimistic at first pass.

  46. #746

    Default



    MC is maximum capacity
    DCR is dispatched contingency reserve
    TNG is total net generation

    From one of my favourite pages at the AESO

    http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet
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  47. #747

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Wow, dirt cheap! Half the price of what Ontario got last year.
    And all in Southern Alberta - the transfer of wealth from Northern Alberta to Southern Alberta, is well under way with the NDP in charge.

  48. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Wow, dirt cheap! Half the price of what Ontario got last year.
    And all in Southern Alberta - the transfer of wealth from Northern Alberta to Southern Alberta, is well under way with the NDP in charge.
    Huh?? That's a head scratcher of a comment.
    Is that what the old PC's would have done? Mandated that the investment be spread across the province? And paid for that benefit?
    Never mind that, oh i don't know, the wind is down south?

    You're always harping about how business won't invest capital here with the NDP, and here they are, offering billions of their own money in investment. And you think there should be a 'big government' telling them exactly where to invest in the province? Doesn't that go against everything you stand for?
    Last edited by nobleea; 14-12-2017 at 02:35 PM.

  49. #749

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    ^Instead of building an efficient natural gas plant right next to Edmonton, creating jobs in Edmonton like Shepard has for Calgary - which capital power half owns (generates 860MW right on the city, so minimal power loss), they will build a wind farm in Southern Alberta to kill millions of birds over its life and inefficiently transmit the electricity north, when the wind sometimes blows.

    https://www.enmax.com/generation-wir...-energy-centre

    Last edited by moahunter; 14-12-2017 at 02:45 PM.

  50. #750

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    And all in Southern Alberta - the transfer of wealth from Northern Alberta to Southern Alberta, is well under way with the NDP in charge.
    The fact a dyed-in-the-wool conservative from Calgary & worshipper at the altar of St Ralph the Drunken Berater has the gall to say something like this nearly caused my beverage to shoot out my nose.

    Come on, moa. This is tone deaf & hypocritical even compared to your usual level of discourse. Which is routinely terrible.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  51. #751

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Instead of building an efficient natural gas plant right next to Edmonton, they will build a wind farm in Southern Alberta and transmit the electricity north, when the wind blows.
    It's almost as if you're willfully ignorant of what the REP RFP process entailed. I guess that wasn't covered in the op/eds full of manufactured rage that you get most of your "wisdom" from.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  52. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Wow, dirt cheap! Half the price of what Ontario got last year.
    And all in Southern Alberta - the transfer of wealth from Northern Alberta to Southern Alberta, is well under way with the NDP in charge.
    If you really want to paint this as a transfer of wealth, you have it backwards. It would be harnessing and transfering the natural wealth of the windy south and transmitting up north. If you really want to consider charged electrons as a specific item, rather than a fungible commodity.

  53. #753

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Instead of building an efficient natural gas plant right next to Edmonton, creating jobs in Edmonton like Shepard has for Calgary - which capital power half owns (generates 860MW right on the city, so minimal power loss), they will build a wind farm in Southern Alberta to kill millions of birds over its life and inefficiently transmit the electricity north, when the wind sometimes blows.
    We had something like that & it was torn down because it didn't provide the right sort of power at the right times & was subsequently replaced.

    http://www.capitalpower.com/generati...rgyCentre.aspx

    ​​​​​​​Facility Information


    • Three highly-efficient natural-gas turbines power up from standstill to full load in 10 minutes to give Capital Power flexibility to respo​nd to sudden changes in supply and demand.
    • Higher efficiency of the General Electric LMS 100s help Capital Power offer competitive peaking capacity and capture greater margins from peak power prices.
    • Clover Bar’s peaking units provide Capital Power with additional flexibility to optimize its Alberta power portfolio.
    • Power generated is sold on the open Alberta electricity market.
    • The facility uses approximately 85% less water per megawatt hour (MWh) than the former Clover Bar facility.
    • Combined, the new turbines produce about 70% less nitrogen oxides per MWh of electricity generated at full capacity, compared to the former facility.
    Oh & Shepard is actually 75% Capital Power (aka Edmonton) until end of the year

    800-MW natural gas facility jointly owned with ENMAX Corporation.
    The commercial arrangements for Shepard with ENMAX include a 20-year tolling contract where 75% of Capital Power’s capacity is contracted from 2015 to 2017 and 50% thereafter to 2035. The tolling agreement has operating and maintenance cost and sustaining capital flow-through.
    http://www.capitalpower.com/generati...s/default.aspx

    I absolutely LOVE IT when you come into my wheelhouse & start talking your usual claptrap about something I'm intimately familiar with.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  54. #754

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    Given that the RFP had timelines involved that favoured existing, established technology & mandated the use of existing transmission infrastructure Southern Alberta wind farms were a no-brainer.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  55. #755

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    If you really want to paint this as a transfer of wealth, you have it backwards. It would be harnessing and transfering the natural wealth of the windy south and transmitting up north. If you really want to consider charged electrons as a specific item, rather than a fungible commodity.
    I don't even know where moa is getting his absurd idea that the power from the REP RFP Round 1 plants is destined for the northern parts of the province. That's really not how the grid works. We will need a mix of renewables all around the province, this is only the first round of many.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  56. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Wow, dirt cheap! Half the price of what Ontario got last year.
    And all in Southern Alberta - the transfer of wealth from Northern Alberta to Southern Alberta, is well under way with the NDP in charge.
    What a bizarre comment. That's where the resource is. I don't see you complaining about the lack of oil sands mines in Southern Alberta.

  57. #757

    Default

    I figured he'd try something like "Damn NDP signed us up for renewable power at twice the market rate!"*, not this "wealth transfer" schtick.


    *: While technically (almost) true, we've been in an extended period of historic low prices, colouring the comparison.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  58. #758

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Wow, dirt cheap! Half the price of what Ontario got last year.
    And all in Southern Alberta - the transfer of wealth from Northern Alberta to Southern Alberta, is well under way with the NDP in charge.
    What a bizarre comment. That's where the resource is. I don't see you complaining about the lack of oil sands mines in Southern Alberta.
    There is nothing bizarre about it, the NDP has decided that wind in Southern Alberta is a better form of fuel than coal or natural gas which northern Alberta has access too. For political not economic, reasons they are selling out the northern half of the province.

  59. #759

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    There is nothing bizarre about it, the NDP has decided that wind in Southern Alberta is a better form of fuel than coal or natural gas which northern Alberta has access too. For political not economic, reasons they are selling out the northern half of the province.
    No, they decided that under the terms of this specific RFP & its requirements that these particular projects are the best choices.

    Or are you accusing the AESO of malfeasance due to NDP interference?

    Because there's actually been 3rd party oversight of this & there's a report available on the fairness of the process here.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  60. #760

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    ^An RFP skewed to favor wind farms ahead of coal or natural gas.

  61. #761

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^An RFP skewed to favor wind farms ahead of coal or natural gas.
    It's the first RFP for the RENEWABLE ENERGY PLAN!

    Are coal & natural gas renewable? No.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  62. #762

    Default

    "This bike race entry form is skewed against motorbikes! WTF!?"
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  63. #763

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    And how dare anyone make decisions for other than short-term economic reasons!

    Speaking of which, I've got an extremely cute one year old child that I think I could get a premium for. How does one go about selling children?
    There can only be one.

  64. #764

    Default

    Damn those NDP for putting the environment & well-being of Albertans ahead of multinational corporations profits! The only good welfare is corporate welfare! Trickle down economics works! Seriously! Hey, where are you going!?
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  65. #765

    Default

    ^there is nothing environmental about wind farms that chop millions of birds into little bits, and need to be torn down in 23 years time because they are no longer economic.

  66. #766

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^there is nothing environmental about wind farms that chop millions of birds into little bits, and need to be torn down in 23 years time because they are no longer economic due to these specific models being outdated technology that nobody uses, making spare parts impossible to find.
    You drop the most important parts of so many of your arguments.

    Also: coal plants release more nuclear fallout than nuclear plants & the oilsands cause cancer. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo it's not like you're Captain Planet over there with your self-centered "save the poor fossil fuel companies" schtick.

    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...an-study-finds
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  67. #767

    Default

    ^in twenty three years time, the models will be outdated with technology nobody uses, making spare parts impossible to find. That's how it works, as we have seen.

  68. #768

    Default

    Although wind energy is widely accepted as renewable, green energy, wind farms can adversely affect birds. In 2013, Environment Canada estimated that on average 8.2 birds were killed per year per wind turbine from collisions at the 43 wind farms sampled. As well 1.23 hectares of bird habitat was lost per turbine as a result of vegetation clearing.
    There's currently ~6300 turbines in Canada, which comes out to around 52,000 birds annually.

    Wind farms contribute far less to bird mortality than predation by domestic and feral cats, and collisions with buildings, communications towers and power lines.
    http://naturecanada.ca/initiatives/s...wind-turbines/
    https://canwea.ca/wind-energy/installed-capacity/
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  69. #769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^in twenty three years time, the models will be outdated with technology nobody uses, making spare parts impossible to find. That's how it works, as we have seen.
    Kinda like the 2/3 of coal plants that were already scheduled to close due to being uneconomic, well prior to the NDP taking office & starting their 30 by 30 plans?

    Like that?

    So we can build clean generation we've gotta renew every 30 years, or we can build fossil fuel plants that have the same lifespan, but you'll only cite it as a downside for your preferred side?

    Nice double standard.

    Do you not understand how technology works? The slow, continuous march of progress?
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  70. #770

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    And how dare anyone make decisions for other than short-term economic reasons!

    Speaking of which, I've got an extremely cute one year old child that I think I could get a premium for. How does one go about selling children?
    Kijiji is a good place to sell children. Boys sell at better prices than girls at that age. Sold a half dozen or more myself last year. The market is hot for less than one year olds because they are easier to transport (8 or 10 on a pallet) and buyers want them fresh faced.

    Older ones, especially girls 13 through 17 are wanted in the State of Alabama so there is a real market these days.

    There is always a market in human trafficking, paid adoption and spare parts for the organ replacement business. Capitalism rocks!
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  71. #771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Wow, dirt cheap! Half the price of what Ontario got last year.
    And all in Southern Alberta - the transfer of wealth from Northern Alberta to Southern Alberta, is well under way with the NDP in charge.
    Net wealth transfer from Alberta to Alberta. Do we win or lose? Better help me out here.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  72. #772

    Default

    moahunter's magical moving of goalposts:

    "Green will be expensive!" - NDP auction secures cheapest renewable in the country by a large margin
    "Green kills birds!" - research proving that wind kills less than fossil fuel energy generation per unit
    "Green transfers wealth!" - it's not leaving the jurisdiction

    Ooh, ooh, where can he move them to next? Some people just can't admit they're wrong.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  73. #773

    Default

    moahunter's magical moving of goalposts:

    "Green will be expensive!" - NDP auction secures cheapest renewable in the country by a large margin (But not as cheap or reliable as clean natural gas, the wind doesn't always blow, and the location is far from where the power will be used - transmission loss)
    "Green kills birds!" - research proving that wind kills less than fossil fuel energy generation per unit (gas power plants don't chop up birds)
    "Green transfers wealth!" - it's not leaving the jurisdiction (agreed - its just moving from around Edmonton to around Calgary, which you clearly love. No doubt you will cheer on when other businesses move South too, after all, they will have better access to the renewable energy that you love). "Hey Amazon, come to Calgary not Edmonton, because we have renewable WIND POWER". (although its not really that renewable given that the windmills will all be pulled down in 23 years time).
    Last edited by moahunter; 14-12-2017 at 05:11 PM.

  74. #774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^there is nothing environmental about wind farms that chop millions of birds into little bits, and need to be torn down in 23 years time because they are no longer economic.
    Not to mention all the wilderness that needs to be clear-cut to install service roads, windmills, and new transmission lines.

    They'll spend a decade and millions of dollars on environmental reports to nix a pipeline for the same reason, but will go full-steam ahead cutting down forests for "green" energy!

  75. #775

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^there is nothing environmental about wind farms that chop millions of birds into little bits, and need to be torn down in 23 years time because they are no longer economic.
    Not to mention all the wilderness that needs to be clear-cut to install service roads, windmills, and new transmission lines.

    They'll spend a decade and millions of dollars on environmental reports to nix a pipeline for the same reason, but will go full-steam ahead cutting down forests for "green" energy!
    Let's review all the wilderness that will be destroyed:

    Capital Power Whitla Facility - Fort Mile County, built on existing farm and ranch land
    EDP Renewables Sharp Hills Facility - Between Sedalia and New Brigden, built on existing farm and ranch land
    Enel Green Power Riverview and Castle Rock Ridge Facilities - Pincher Creek, built on existing farm and ranch land

    Derp.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  76. #776
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    The auction results are really great news. So much for the argument that more wind energy will drive up electricity prices.

    I'm especially pleased that one of the wind projects will be located in the Hanna/Oyen area of east central Alberta. This area has a really good wind resource that is under-utilized, and the Hanna area will likely be losing the coal units at Sheerness.

    More good news. TransAlta is speeding up the conversion of 4 units at Sundance and 2 units at Keephills from coal to natural gas (located near Wabamun west of Edmonton) by a year from 2022 to 2021.

    http://www.transalta.com/about-us/coal-to-gas/

  77. #777

    Default Humiliation in Calgary-Lougheed shows NDP need drastic changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    So how much of the popular vote will Big Arse capture on Thursday ?

    Top_Dawg predicts he will get 67%.

    What do youz guyz think ?
    Lol, u were closer than me, 71.4 percent. Sad thing is we will all eventually have to pay for all this green BS, as it will be in place before the UCP can come in and correct course.

    http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...rastic-changes
    Last edited by moahunter; 14-12-2017 at 11:15 PM.

  78. #778
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    Wahoo! 71%!!!

    Look out Notley, the NDP got 16%..☺

  79. #779

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    The auction results are really great news. So much for the argument that more wind energy will drive up electricity prices.

    I'm especially pleased that one of the wind projects will be located in the Hanna/Oyen area of east central Alberta. This area has a really good wind resource that is under-utilized, and the Hanna area will likely be losing the coal units at Sheerness.

    More good news. TransAlta is speeding up the conversion of 4 units at Sundance and 2 units at Keephills from coal to natural gas (located near Wabamun west of Edmonton) by a year from 2022 to 2021.

    http://www.transalta.com/about-us/coal-to-gas/
    Natural gas isn’t a solution though. Just a reduction in greenhous gases.

  80. #780
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    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/c...rbon-1.4448977

    The chamber is calling on the province to postpone its plan to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour next year, and instead leave it at $13.60 until there's a better understanding of how the higher wage affects the economy.

  81. #781

    Default

    ^We have already had a ton of small business failures, this will cause a devestating new wave for little ma and pa shops that are the lifeblood of the economy (shifting yet more of the economy into massive retail corporations / business chains which the NDPs friends can try to unionize). All because socialist ideology/economics consists of the ridiculous la la land theory, pay people more and they will spend more and we will all be better off (conviniently ignoring the higher wages get paid by someone). All you are doing is slicing the pie differently / resdistributing (taking away from a job creating group struggling at the moment) - by socialist NDP economic illogic the wages could go to 1,000,000 per hour and everybody would be happy and rich... but sadly as the Soviet Union showed us, all you end up with is drab lifeless giant corporations in the place of innovative and interesting local ones.
    Last edited by moahunter; Yesterday at 07:50 AM.

  82. #782

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Not to mention all the wilderness that needs to be clear-cut to install service roads, windmills, and new transmission lines.
    As well 1.23 hectares of bird habitat was lost per turbine as a result of vegetation clearing.
    From my naturecanada link above.

    1.23 hectares x 6300 = ~7800 hectares.

    Since Suncor opened Canada’s first oil sands mine in 1967, our oil sands operations have disturbed approximately 22,072 hectares of land. As of the end of 2014, the company had reclaimed* approximately 1905 hectares of this mine, or about 9% of the total land disturbance to date.
    http://sustainability.suncor.com/201...clamation.aspx

    They'll spend a decade and millions of dollars on environmental reports to nix a pipeline for the same reason, but will go full-steam ahead cutting down forests for "green" energy!
    Yeah, we should just stick to the cancer-causing, environment-pillaging & multinational-corporation-run oil sands. Or dirty, radioactive-fallout-generating coal.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  83. #783

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    All because socialist ideology/economics consists of the ridiculous la la land theory, pay people more and they will spend more and we will all be better off (conviniently ignoring the higher wages get paid by someone). All you are doing is slicing the pie differently / resdistributing (taking away from a job creating group struggling at the moment) - by socialist NDP economic illogic the wages could go to 1,000,000 per hour and everybody would be happy and rich... but sadly as the Soviet Union showed us, all you end up with is drab lifeless giant corporations in the place of innovative and interesting local ones.
    It's hilarious how someone who's a proponent of a disproved, failed & ultimately harmful economic theory keeps calling the other, proven beneficial side "la la land theory".

    We get it, you still believe Reaganomics is a thing. Your personal politics seems a weird mix of early 90s Albertan & mid 80s Republican.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  84. #784

    Default

    Moahunter believes in trickle down economics like the rest of them. Help the billionaires become trillionaires, with the only trickle being the pizz they leak in his direction, mouth open, basking in the glory of other people's wealth while he starves and watches "the little guy" get crushed under corporate behemoths.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  85. #785

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Moahunter believes in trickle down economics like the rest of them. Help the billionaires become trillionaires, with the only trickle being the pizz they leak in his direction, mouth open, basking in the glory of other people's wealth while he starves and watches "the little guy" get crushed under corporate behemoths.
    Whereas you and Noodle, like the NDP, seem ok that every business is going to end up a giant multinational (which the NDP masters feel they can unionize unlike small local businesses), because those are the only ones that will benefit from these policies that hammer local and family concerns. But sure, cheer on while you watch local restaurants and convenience stores disappear at the expense of McDonalds, Walmart and similar (with their distributions centers in Cowtown), which have the resources and buying power to implement self serve technology / manage all the red tape - I hope that's what you want because its what you are going to get from these policies.
    Last edited by moahunter; Yesterday at 09:46 AM.

  86. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^We have already had a ton of small business failures, this will cause a devestating new wave for little ma and pa shops that are the lifeblood of the economy (shifting yet more of the economy into massive retail corporations / business chains which the NDPs friends can try to unionize). All because socialist ideology/economics consists of the ridiculous la la land theory, pay people more and they will spend more and we will all be better off (conviniently ignoring the higher wages get paid by someone). All you are doing is slicing the pie differently / resdistributing (taking away from a job creating group struggling at the moment) - by socialist NDP economic illogic the wages could go to 1,000,000 per hour and everybody would be happy and rich... but sadly as the Soviet Union showed us, all you end up with is drab lifeless giant corporations in the place of innovative and interesting local ones.
    The socialists will be out in 2019, they will have run out of money, other peoples money!

  87. #787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Whereas you and Noodle, like the NDP, seem ok that every business is going to end up a giant multinational (which the NDP masters feel they can unionize unlike small local businesses), because those are the only ones that will benefit from these policies that hammer local and family concerns.
    Wrong. Once again you prove that you're absolutely terrible at trying to put words in my mouth or mind. Please stop. You're abysmal at it & it doesn't help your argument to invent things I didn't say & then roll off on a tangent based upon this imagined & entirely artificial offense that only exists inside the machinations of your own borderline-sociopathic mind.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  88. #788

    Default

    ^so explain, why you aren't concerned, like the Chamber of Commerce is, that this is going to tip lots of small local businesses into failure. The big companies will do fine, they can mitigate the cost with technology and their distribution advantages, but a Ma and Pa who started a local coffee shop, unlike a starbucks, are much more exposed to the impact of labor costs and can't do that. They just end up forced to lay off staff, which means no holidays for them (and eventual burn out / business failure) - fewer opportunities for young people to get a start. Unions always hate small local businesses, they simply don't have the resources to provide the type of employee benefits that large corporations provide, so its not surprising that the NDP is fine with destroying this part of our economy.
    Last edited by moahunter; Yesterday at 10:25 AM.

  89. #789

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^We have already had a ton of small business failures, this will cause a devestating new wave for little ma and pa shops that are the lifeblood of the economy (shifting yet more of the economy into massive retail corporations / business chains which the NDPs friends can try to unionize). All because socialist ideology/economics consists of the ridiculous la la land theory, pay people more and they will spend more and we will all be better off (conviniently ignoring the higher wages get paid by someone). All you are doing is slicing the pie differently / resdistributing (taking away from a job creating group struggling at the moment) - by socialist NDP economic illogic the wages could go to 1,000,000 per hour and everybody would be happy and rich... but sadly as the Soviet Union showed us, all you end up with is drab lifeless giant corporations in the place of innovative and interesting local ones.
    So how in the end did these tax cuts vs tax increases & cost increases balance out? There should be quantitative data available by now.


    Alberta budget 2016: Government to cut small business tax from 3 to 2 per cent – Calgary Herald

    Alberta business groups say the NDP government’s decision to cut taxes for small-business owners and introduce tax credits for capital investment will stimulate the private sector and help create jobs.

    However, it’s unclear whether the new supports for entrepreneurs will be enough to offset costs businesses will incur as a result of the province’s soon-to-be implemented carbon tax.

    Starting Jan. 1, 2017, the small-business tax rate in Alberta will be cut from three per cent to two per cent — giving Alberta the second-lowest small-business tax rate in the country, tied with Saskatchewan. According to government estimates, the small-business tax cut will put an estimated $185 million back into the pockets of entrepreneurs in 2017-18, and $865 million over a five-year period.


    http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...ax-from-3-to-2

    Tax cut to support Alberta's small businesses | Alberta.ca
    https://www.alberta.ca › release
    Apr. 15, 2016 Ě Cutting the small business tax rate by one third reinforces Alberta businesses’ overall tax advantage compared to other provinces in Canada. As part of Alberta’s Climate Leadership Plan, government is reducing the small business tax rate from three per cent to two per cent ...


    Calgary businesses hurt by multiple financial burdens, chamber of commerce says - Calgary - CBC News

    "The Alberta government should consider targeted approaches to poverty alleviation including an expansion of the Alberta Family Employment Tax Credit to cover the full demographic of low-income, working Albertans," the report said.

    The chamber is also recommending that the City of Calgary extend its non-residential property tax relief through 2018 and work to find a longer-term solution to recent large swings in property assessments.

    It wants the city to contain annual spending increases within what it calls a "smart spending bandwidth" — the combined rates of consumer inflation plus population growth.

    The chamber is also calling on the Alberta government to use a portion of the carbon levy to reduce corporate and personal income taxes. ...”


    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rbon-1.4448977
    Bolding is mine
    Last edited by KC; Yesterday at 10:34 AM.

  90. #790

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^so explain, why you aren't concerned, like the Chamber of Commerce is, that this is going to tip lots of small local businesses into failure. The big companies will do fine, they can mitigate the cost with technology and their distribution advantages, but a Ma and Pa who started a local coffee shop, unlike a starbucks, are much more exposed to the impact of labor costs and can't do that. They just end up forced to lay off staff, which means no holidays for them (and eventual burn out / business failure) - fewer opportunities for young people to get a start.
    If your business model only works if you don't pay your workers a living wage then you don't belong in the marketplace. Simple.

    (I'm choosing to ignore you stroking your rage boner for unions with your hilarious & bizarre rhetoric that the NDP are out to hurt the little guy.)
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  91. #791
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^We have already had a ton of small business failures, this will cause a devestating new wave for little ma and pa shops that are the lifeblood of the economy (shifting yet more of the economy into massive retail corporations / business chains which the NDPs friends can try to unionize). All because socialist ideology/economics consists of the ridiculous la la land theory, pay people more and they will spend more and we will all be better off (conviniently ignoring the higher wages get paid by someone). All you are doing is slicing the pie differently / resdistributing (taking away from a job creating group struggling at the moment) - by socialist NDP economic illogic the wages could go to 1,000,000 per hour and everybody would be happy and rich... but sadly as the Soviet Union showed us, all you end up with is drab lifeless giant corporations in the place of innovative and interesting local ones.
    The socialists will be out in 2019, they will have run out of money, other peoples money!
    The NDP still have another term in them. The UPC isn't quite legit yet despite Jason Kenney's win, they have a long way's to go.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  92. #792

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^so explain, why you aren't concerned, like the Chamber of Commerce is, that this is going to tip lots of small local businesses into failure. The big companies will do fine, they can mitigate the cost with technology and their distribution advantages, but a Ma and Pa who started a local coffee shop, unlike a starbucks, are much more exposed to the impact of labor costs and can't do that. They just end up forced to lay off staff, which means no holidays for them (and eventual burn out / business failure) - fewer opportunities for young people to get a start.
    If your business model only works if you don't pay your workers a living wage then you don't belong in the marketplace. Simple.
    In other words, because your business model doesn't include the distribution advantages, access to technology, and centralized regulatory departments to administer all the red tape, that large multinationals have, you don't deserve to be in business, so much for having a vibrant and diverse local economy.

  93. #793

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    In other words, because your business model doesn't include the distribution advantages, access to technology, and centralized regulatory departments to administer all the red tape, that large multinationals have, you don't deserve to be in business, so much for having a vibrant and diverse local economy.
    I said none of that.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  94. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^We have already had a ton of small business failures, this will cause a devestating new wave for little ma and pa shops that are the lifeblood of the economy (shifting yet more of the economy into massive retail corporations / business chains which the NDPs friends can try to unionize). All because socialist ideology/economics consists of the ridiculous la la land theory, pay people more and they will spend more and we will all be better off (conviniently ignoring the higher wages get paid by someone). All you are doing is slicing the pie differently / resdistributing (taking away from a job creating group struggling at the moment) - by socialist NDP economic illogic the wages could go to 1,000,000 per hour and everybody would be happy and rich... but sadly as the Soviet Union showed us, all you end up with is drab lifeless giant corporations in the place of innovative and interesting local ones.
    The socialists will be out in 2019, they will have run out of money, other peoples money!
    The NDP still have another term in them. The UPC isn't quite legit yet despite Jason Kenney's win, they have a long way's to go.
    They have too long to really mess AB up...but at least I have hope! I don't see another term..

  95. #795

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    The NDP still have another term in them. The UPC isn't quite legit yet despite Jason Kenney's win, they have a long way's to go.

    You think so? I would be surprised to see the NDP break 30% of the provincial vote next election.

  96. #796

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    Kenney did win big time in a PC stronghold. NDP lost 50% of their vote from the last time an election was run in that riding.
    Having said that. Kenney has plenty of time to show us his nasty side (I don't think he has a nice side) now that he is qualified to sit in the ledge and pontificate. Could be with him at the helm the You See Pee's will either flourish or rot. Let's see how Kenney performs or what transpires as a lot can happen in politics between now and the next election cycle. After all, Kenney did not get any glowing endorsements from when he was a federal politician.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." ľMark Twain

  97. #797

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    ^As it stands right now the NDP has lost the center vote. Their only supporters are government workers, Alberta greens, and communist / left wing progressives. The one thing that could mess it up for UPC is if social issues blow up like they did for WR some years back, but its unlikely - people are not focused on that, they are worried about jobs and all the job killing regulations / policies the NDP keep trotting out from their socialist manifesto.

  98. #798

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^As it stands right now the NDP has lost the center vote. Their only supporters are government workers, Alberta greens, and communist / left wing progressives.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


    The poster with the least accurate ability to intuit the minds of other posters suddenly knows what's in the mind of center voters, despite being a regressively illiberal right-winger himself & completely unable to see things from anyone else's perspective without more projection than a Cineplex.

    Keep it up, moa. I need some more chuckles today.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  99. #799
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    As giant corporations take over all facets of the economy and most people that work for them are low wage earners are they not becoming a more significant percentage of the vote. UPC will only make life more miserable for low wage earners, even now trying to stop the $15 an hour wage. Ma and Pa businesses are already on their way out, in case you didn't notice, so let's do what is best for the masses and to heck with UCP and their lot.

  100. #800

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    Small business owners are better people than their employees which is why their profits are more important than their workers' being able to afford the basic necessities of life. DUH. If their employees want economic security they should become job creators!

    Corporate CEOs > Entrepreneurs > Hard working Albertans > Lazy union members > Government employees
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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