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Thread: Mudflap enforcement, or lack thereof

  1. #1

    Angry Mudflap enforcement, or lack thereof

    Like many other things that get ignored by the police, not having mudflaps on a truck (aka mud guards) is illegal in Alberta. One more thing that makes me wonder what the Edmonton Police do, and where all the millions of dollars of photo radar money (that is supposed to go towards traffic safety) goes.

    Article 64 of the Alberta Traffic Safety Act;


    Mudguards

    64


    (1)
    A motor vehicle or trailer must have a part of its body, a fender or a mudguard that covers the width of each tire.

    (2)
    The body part, fender or mudguard referred to in subsection (1) must be above each wheel and
    (a) extend downwards at the rear of each axle or axle group to at least the centre line of the axle, or
    (b) be a distance away from the ground equivalent to at least 1/3 of the horizontal distance from the bottom edge of the mudguard to the centre line of the axle, but not closer to the ground than 150 millimetres when the vehicle is loaded.

    (3)
    In addition to the requirements of subsection (1), the following types of vehicle must be equipped with rear wheel splash and stone-throw protection that complies with SAE Standard J682:
    (a) a commercial vehicle or combination of commercial vehicles that is registered for a gross weight of more than, or that weighs more than, 4500 kilograms and that is not a bus;
    (b) a bus;
    (c) a trailer.

    (4)
    A passenger car is not required to have a mudguard.

    (5)
    This section does not apply to a trailer designed and constructed for drive-on and drive-off low loads.
    Note number 4 above, which some argue excludes trucks, is defined as:

    (n) “passenger car” means a passenger car as defined in the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada);
    The Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations defines "passenger car" as;

    passenger car means a vehicle having a designated seating capacity of 10 or less, but does not include an all-terrain vehicle, a competition vehicle, a low-speed vehicle, a multi-purpose passenger vehicle, an antique reproduction vehicle, a motorcycle, a truck, a trailer, a vehicle imported temporarily for special purposes or a three-wheeled vehicle; (voiture de tourisme)
    It also has a separate definition for "truck tractor" aka tractor trailer/transport truck. So, Article 64 means, pickup trucks are required to have mudflaps.

    Now that this is out of the way... Spring time is coming sooner than later it seems, and the rocks are already starting to fly towards windshields. Last year I had several chips and a large crack, followed by full windshield replacement on my new truck that wasn't even a year old. Not even a week after the new replacement I had another chip. All of these were from pickup trucks without mudflaps. They're not expensive, and if you can afford a pickup truck, you should be able to afford flaps...

    Unfortunately, I think the fine for this is only $57, so it's probably not "worth it" for the police to "waste their time" for this. After all, it seems to be all about making money, and not safety, or something as simple as enforcing mudflaps to keep everyone else from having to pay for it with windshield repairs. Perhaps this fine should be raised, not only because it will make people think twice about it, but maybe it'll make the police think it's worth it to give people tickets for it. Personally, I have windshield insurance, so chip repairs are free, and a new windshield is $100, but it's still a pain to have to go get these repairs done when it could be easily avoided.

    I've only seen a few articles about people actually getting pulled over for it, but only ever from the RCMP. Edmonton Police could care less it seems.

    http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mudflap-fa...-lot-1.1886573

    http://globalnews.ca/news/274479/no-...ould-cost-you/

  2. #2

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    I'd love to see some enforcement. The dollars lost to broken windshields and higher spending on washer fluid might have a beneficial payoff. (Windshields are an imported item so that means a lot of our money is being exported to pay for them).

    What irritates me is that I can't even get a VW mudflap for my wife's SUV. So in the spring I plan to fit some flat ones to it. They'll reduce grime on the side of the vehicle as well.

    My Subaru has great OEM mudflaps. Big but they look ok.

  3. #3
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    Just one of the many infractions that police seem to overlook on the 'Berta jacked up truck dbag crowd.

    No mudflaps.
    Tires extending past wheel wells
    Headlights over 1.2m above the ground

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I'd love to see some enforcement. The dollars lost to broken windshields and higher spending on washer fluid might have a beneficial payoff. (Windshields are an imported item so that means a lot of our money is being exported to pay for them).

    What irritates me is that I can't even get a VW mudflap for my wife's SUV. So in the spring I plan to fit some flat ones to it. They'll reduce grime on the side of the vehicle as well.

    My Subaru has great OEM mudflaps. Big but they look ok.
    Yes! I like the subi flaps, it's one of their signature looks. Other than grime, they also help keep your front tires from throwing rocks at the doors and rocker panels.

    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Just one of the many infractions that police seem to overlook on the 'Berta jacked up truck dbag crowd.

    No mudflaps.
    Tires extending past wheel wells
    Headlights over 1.2m above the ground
    Yep. My last vehicle had a slight lift (2") because I ACTUALLY went offroad, but tires stayed in the wheel wells and I got longer mudflaps. The dbags you speak of never take their trucks off of the pavement and will purposely remove their mudflaps, and put in spacers to push the wheels out. The headlights over 1.2 meters thing I think is hard to do, because some vehicles even come at that height or higher, but they should be aimed properly, and those drivers should also make sure they're not too close behind someone and shining their lights in someone's rearview mirror. But, these dbags also have the cheap chinese HID/LED lights in reflector housings (which you shouldn't do) which scatters light everywhere and blinds everyone, but that's a whole other rant...

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    But they'll get you if you tint your windows. The selective enforcement of the vehicle equipment regulations is ridiculous.

  6. #6

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    Alkeli , phone 311 and email your city Councilor that some of that traffic enforcement revenue safety money reserve you mentioned on the other thread should go to this. There's probably enough in the kitty to add it to the parking ticket officers books, and perhaps get and additional by-law constable or two some overtime to pull people over for them.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Alkeli , phone 311 and email your city Councilor that some of that traffic enforcement revenue safety money reserve you mentioned on the other thread should go to this. There's probably enough in the kitty to add it to the parking ticket officers books, and perhaps get and additional by-law constable or two some overtime to pull people over for them.
    Haha, yeah don't get me started on that in this thread as well... Hell, I'd be happy if more of the money went to putting more cops on the streets instead of going somewhere nobody knows. I even called EPS about a drunk driver, after over an hour of waiting, the person left again in their car and no cops showed up...

  8. #8

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    I should imagine the very parking ticket officers who is assigned to handing out tickets for mud flap infraction more than likely does not have any on his vehicle. Like most of the population of Alberta do not have mud flaps/splash guards on their vehicles. It is not something on most peoples radars.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  9. #9

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    Don't expect anything here. If it can't be enforced by contractors parked on the side of the road eating donuts and lauded as a magical panacea to traffic accidents, it won't be.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  10. #10

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    Driving down 97th Street yesterday I had to put my windshield wipers on about every couple of blocks. It did not bother me half as much as the person in front having one of those covers over their licence plate to stop the plate being photographed by a photo radar flash. If the traffic enforcement don't bother going after plate scofflaws I doubt very much they would go after the 90 % of vehicles that don't have flaps.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  11. #11

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    It also doesn't help that the city uses rocks instead of proper sand.

  12. #12

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    Case in point/speak of the devil. I was on the Henday this morning at 6AM, hardly any other cars at all. A jacked up picked truck blew by me probably doing 130 in the fog and smack. I now have another huge crack going across my windshield again! My truck is a 2015 and this will now be my 2nd windshield replacement! On top of the 7-8 chip repairs I've done. This is just getting stupid now...

  13. #13

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    I picked up another rock chip this weekend from a horse trailer just outside of Calgary. Second chip in as many trips to/from Calgary. It's way off to the side though so I'm gonna let it slide a bit longer. Windshield replacements for my car are almost a grand as there's no aftermarket replacements that'll work.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  14. #14

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    If its just a chip, get it repaired. Even long cracks can be fixed now.

  15. #15

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    The second one is like the first one that my glass guy said wasn't worth fixing & nowhere near as bad as the one I did get fixed that's actually in my FOV. I was intending on replacing my windshield this summer anyways so I will keep the repair money in the replacement kitty.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    I have to wonder if my windshield lasting over 100,000 kms before getting a chip is some kind of local record.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I picked up another rock chip this weekend from a horse trailer just outside of Calgary. Second chip in as many trips to/from Calgary. It's way off to the side though so I'm gonna let it slide a bit longer. Windshield replacements for my car are almost a grand as there's no aftermarket replacements that'll work.
    About the same for my truck, but that's why I have windshield insurance $100/year, and costs me $100 all in to replace my windshield. I've already done it this past spring, and looks like I'll be doing it again this spring...

    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    I have to wonder if my windshield lasting over 100,000 kms before getting a chip is some kind of local record.
    I had my Xterra for 8 years, put 245,000 km's on it, and it was the original windshield. My new truck, 2 years, and going to be my 2nd new windshield soon....

  18. #18

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    Glass coverage per year for my car is about 50% of the cost of a new windshield unfortunately & that's before my deductible. So I'm going without for now, though I'll reconsider if the economics change.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  19. #19

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    Yeah WTH, why is the city using small boulders for the roads, they used to use small grain gravel, now it is jagged small rocks, some are approx 1cm in size. When a rock chip is in glass I could care less as a windshield is honestly not bad around 300 installed ( for my vehicles) but when the rocks blow through a layer of 3m, the paint and primer to leave bare metal, there is an issue with the size of the rocks.

  20. #20

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    My rampant unhinged paranoid conspiracy theory endulging mind is blaming it on glass repair shop owners going out in the dead of night to spread oversized rocks on our streets. They fill up their beds with gravel and pull little levers to dump it out under their trucks...

  21. #21

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    I waited several years to replace my cracked truck windshield and within a couple weeks I was down by Sylvan Lake on the clean smooth highway when their was an enormous bang on my truck. Checked it at the next stop and the trim at the top of the windshield was dented and a spot of glass pulverized. By the time I got home cracks were spreading.

    Coincidentally, it was on the news that further north that day guys were throwing rocks out of their vehicle at passing cars.

    Anyway, now my windshield has multiple cracks crisscrossing each other as they go from top to bottom on the passenger side. Gotta change it again soon.


    Couple shaken after rock thrown at their vehicle on the highway


    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/couple-sh...hway-1.1965293
    Last edited by KC; 27-01-2017 at 04:33 PM.

  22. #22

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    You should be self insuring windshields.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
    You should be self insuring windshields.
    Yeah. Insurance isn't magic. They're making a profit off of you. Obviously for the whole vehicle, most people can't afford to self insure because a sudden 5 digit expense would break them (my business only has basic coverage on our work trucks, for example, because so long as we don't write off a 40k truck every 3 years we're ahead of the game). But as most vehicles only have windshields worth $200-300 (silly Subaru's exempted), that's not something you should need insurance for.

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    ^ Silly Subarus? A windshield for my Outback cost me $320. At the high end of the normal range, but not stupid.

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    That was a reference for noodle, who has mentioned that his windshield comes in at near 1k. I've been told the same by another Subaru driver. Something about there being no non-OEM options due to some lane departure sensors or similar.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    That was a reference for noodle, who has mentioned that his windshield comes in at near 1k. I've been told the same by another Subaru driver. Something about there being no non-OEM options due to some lane departure sensors or similar.
    On mine, I don't have the sensors but I do have the heat strips. Afraid to go to Subaru to find out.

  27. #27

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    My windshield is expensive due to the non-reflective & proprietary optical coatings required to get my HUD to work.

    (I drive a BMW)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Ah, my mistake. I definitely had a friend mention his WRX windshield was close to 1k, in any case. Pretty sure we were able to go with a non-OEM windshield on our Yukon, which has a HUD and other sensors in it. It was $400-500 I believe. Of course the dealership warned us not to, and by coincidence the HUD failed soon after, but it had nothing to do with the windshield itself. That same dealership also managed to not replace a bunch of fuses, causing the truck to go in to limp mode halfway through a trip to Kelowna. Goofballs.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 02-02-2017 at 11:03 AM.

  29. #29

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    I wonder if there's a difference in how the systems are implemented. I know for a fact mine requires the OEM polarization & coatings to function, both of which are lacking on aftermarket replacements.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  30. #30

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    We live in Beaumont and they definitely do check mud flaps here, tint as well, and I don't have them so don't really pay that much attention but I believe also the illegally mounted lights.
    They also use those little portable boxes near stop signs extensively, and ticket if you make a right hand turn when someone is in the crosswalk, anywhere on a 6 lane divided road.
    If you visit anyone here be prepared for 5second stops at signs, and don't forget all but 2 streets have 40km/hr speed limits.

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    This thread is all gripes and cripes.

    This is Alberta. It doesn't matter if wheels on vehicles are protected with mudflaps and fender flares. You will still get rocks pelting your windshield and sunroof. It's the main reason I avoid vehicles with sunroofs.

    Rocks destroy windshields, temperature differential destroys windshields. It's Alberta. It's just the way it is here. I've just come to accept it.

    The real problem in Alberta is road debris, such as blown tires, 4X4 wooden blocks, 2x4's, bags of garbage, etc. People need to secure what they're hauling. And that should be enforced hardcore.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    This thread is all gripes and cripes.

    This is Alberta. It doesn't matter if wheels on vehicles are protected with mudflaps and fender flares. You will still get rocks pelting your windshield and sunroof. It's the main reason I avoid vehicles with sunroofs.

    Rocks destroy windshields, temperature differential destroys windshields. It's Alberta. It's just the way it is here. I've just come to accept it.

    The real problem in Alberta is road debris, such as blown tires, 4X4 wooden blocks, 2x4's, bags of garbage, etc. People need to secure what they're hauling. And that should be enforced hardcore.
    Regarding debris, I regularly see receiver hitch inserts on the side of the road (this year alone I can recall seeing 8


    I’m not sure if they could bounce up. If so they could be a real danger. I’ve thought that the manufacturers should paint them some colour other than black.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    This thread is all gripes and cripes.
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post

    This is Alberta. It doesn't matter if wheels on vehicles are protected with mudflaps and fender flares. You will still get rocks pelting your windshield and sunroof. It's the main reason I avoid vehicles with sunroofs.

    Rocks destroy windshields, temperature differential destroys windshields. It's Alberta. It's just the way it is here. I've just come to accept it.

    The real problem in Alberta is road debris, such as blown tires, 4X4 wooden blocks, 2x4's, bags of garbage, etc. People need to secure what they're hauling. And that should be enforced hardcore.


    Not true...

    Saying "this is Alberta" could excuse many things...including social issues, economic malaise, a lack of snow clearing, potholes, Stalinist architecture, etc...
    "this is Alberta"...is a pathetic excuse. The sheer amount of rocks and debris coming off commercial and residential vehicles, especially gravel haulers, is incredible. This can and should be mitigated. It is not that "this is Alberta", it is a callous nature and a lack of effort that drives this...or is a callous disrespect for everyone and everything a part of "this is Alberta. Go **** yourself." ??

    Temperature differentials do NOT destroy windshields. Windshields are tempered glass and designed to withstand these extremes. It is only when a windshield is flawed from the factory that it would fail under a temperature extreme, and that is EXTREMELY rare.

    The ASGA is pathetic in its enforcement. Commercial vehicle enforcement is also underfunded and understaffed. Gravel Haulers are all over the map when it comes to equipment standards. On Hwy 60/627/770, there were at least 7 roll over accidents involving gravel haulers in October alone...all single vehicle...all vehicle failures. The gravel routes are littered with debris from these vehicles. Combine this with the winter road maintenance activity of using pebbles vs sand...and then not cleaning it up...and you get "alberta".

    It is not blown tires, wooden blocks, or other improper load debris. It is loose gravel.

    Near my area, I can expect up to 160 gravel trucks per hour. With the combined pits, there is a maximum of 250-300 per hour. When you add the rest coming from Villeneuve, Parkland, Leduc, and other pits, the sheer amount of aggregate being hauled is unbelievable. Most of this is secured with loose to nonexistent tarps, and bad equipment with even worse operators. I have reams of dashcam footage of debris coming off aggregate haulers, and nary a one of unsecured loads. The only other offenders are the "nuck nuck nuck and my jacked up truck" morons who oversize their tires, jack up their rig, go "muddin", and then fly around with mud and gravel all over their vehicle.

    Sorry, Alberta or not, there is something that can be done.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    My windshield is expensive due to the non-reflective & proprietary optical coatings required to get my HUD to work.

    (I drive a BMW)
    Same. Grand Prix GXP. 1K windshield...aaarrrggghhh
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan View Post
    This thread is all gripes and cripes.

    This is Alberta. It doesn't matter if wheels on vehicles are protected with mudflaps and fender flares. You will still get rocks pelting your windshield and sunroof. It's the main reason I avoid vehicles with sunroofs.

    Rocks destroy windshields, temperature differential destroys windshields. It's Alberta. It's just the way it is here. I've just come to accept it.

    The real problem in Alberta is road debris, such as blown tires, 4X4 wooden blocks, 2x4's, bags of garbage, etc. People need to secure what they're hauling. And that should be enforced hardcore.
    Regarding debris, I regularly see receiver hitch inserts on the side of the road (this year alone I can recall seeing 8


    I’m not sure if they could bounce up. If so they could be a real danger. I’ve thought that the manufacturers should paint them some colour other than black.
    Just as an example, pre-street cleaning, as of a few days ago I’ve seen 6 of the receiver hitch pieces along the Whitemud (and on ramps) between the Anthony Henday the the bridge over the Saskatchewan river - just in the eastbound lane!

    Plus more on the north and south sections of the Henday but I wasn’t counting. In other words, they are all falling out all over the place.

    Here’s an example of the height they can reach when bouncing:

    Towing hitch hits windshield | abc13.com

    http://abc13.com/traffic/towing-hitc...hield/1230145/
    Last edited by KC; 02-05-2018 at 06:52 PM.

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