2017 Off Season Thread | Oilers
To discuss the preparation, management, and anticipation of the 2017-2018 campaign.
Seriously. 2017-2018. Wow. 2018 will be the year that I expect everyone will talk about the 30 year anniversary of the last cup win with Gretzky, and "The Trade". Maybe a theme for 2018 is "Win one for the Gretz (Gipper)"?
Ow
Get rid of the zeros. Eberle, Nuge, Pouliot.
Hockey, especially playoff hockey is a results based business. Several players on this team stood tall, several exceeded expectations, two of The players wearing the "A" were never difference makers. Never contributed much of anything. That a rookie, Drake Caggiulia could do more, and show more heart and desire than two very highly paid veterans more than underscores the point.
Theres no room for passengers and pretenders on a competitive club. You remove the ones that don't exhibit the compete level.
Everybody but the aforementioned can hold their heads high. Every other player on this team gave it all they had.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
I think you should retitle the thread to 2017 Oiler Off Season Thread.
Handy page for keeping track of Oiler contracts
https://capfriendly.com/teams/oilers
RFAs:
Kassian - has arbitration rights, so it would be interesting how that plays out
Draisaitl - due for a hefty raise
Khaira - probably a 2-way contract
Pakarinen - I doubt they'll keep him
Reinhart - an expensive acquisition because of management's misguided "keep Oil Kings in the family" philosophy but has potential still
Lander - has arbitration rights, can't really see them re-signing him.
several Condors
UFAs:
Desharnais - can't see them keeping him
Hendricks - he's finished
Pitlick - with all his injuries, tough call
Russell - a keeper
Gryba - only keep him if they can't get someone better
Ference - unofficially retired
Gustavsson - NHL career is toast
Oesterle - whatever
Trade/Expansion bait:
Eberle - I think tonight we saw Eberle's last game as an Oiler
Nuge - is he really worth $6M now?
Pouliot - is he really worth $4M now?
Needs?
1 or 2 Cs who can win faceoffs
More goalie depth wouldn't hurt
A couple more right-side defensemen also wouldn't hurt
Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 14-05-2017 at 11:48 AM.
“You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012
Good thing the expansion draft is coming... I would try to keep/trade Nuge. Ditch Ebs and Pouliot.Originally Posted by Replacement
We will, and I like what Drai and Connor had to say on the matter but I don't know that its possible to ever get goaltending this out of this world again. The stats don't do it any justice. Talbot is making 15 sensational stops a night. The Oilers were being carved for turnovers countless times last night, left people open right in front of the net several times. Talbot just stoning them. The only ones that got through were results of serial in close chances where Talbot made multiple stops prior to the goals. On the last one he looked exhausted and was outside of his typical form as he had been facing a barrage. The 2nd period was relentless pressure.
As much as some players didn't show up we got premium performances from Talbot, Drai, McD, top 4 D, Letestu, Kassian, Maroon etc. There was something about the way this club came together this season and they were riding a high. Similar to the Oilers in 80 and 81. But it gets harder after. You have to bottle the initial enthusiasm, and elation, into something sustained. Like Letestu, a veteran, said, we won't know until next fall what we have.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Yup.
Ol' McLellan can win you all the games except the ones that matter.
Even if we trade several players for a bag of pucks and bring up a few guys we will do alright next season.
Nuge contract is not tradable, wasn't last year when several trade rumors occurred. Oilers would be in a buyback position with either contract. The Oilers are short on scorin wingers. They are not short on topsix Centers. Nor is Nuge a shutdown or roleplayer Center.Good thing the expansion draft is coming... I would try to keep/trade Nuge. Ditch Ebs and Pouliot.
Last 3 GP in the Series Nuge couldn't even dominate against 3rd line opposition. Actually he couldn't even get on the scoreboard. He was -1 in a 7-1 loss playing 80% of that game against bottomsix.
As far as Pouliot his pk work was actually excellent and his board play was pretty good while playing with two complete passengers. Eberle and Nuge have at different times had Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon, even Drai, and at no point this season did this line really get going. All the players that enter that line regress in production. Nuge is too peripheral, doesn't generate much, and Eberle not resilient enough to get in spots. Pouliot was actually doing the hard battling on that line.
Last night Nuge got a gift rebound, right in the slot, probably the best look he's had in the series. Laughably he buttonhooks out of the slot and passed it back to the point. This player, for two years now is so snakebit he no longer even believes in himself. He's a pretender, probably knows it, and seeing real Centers like McDavid, Draisaitl, probably doesn't do much for his confidence.
Letestu, Desharnais had better playoffs than Nuge. Caggiulia was better than Ebs or Nuge. This kind of puts it in perspective.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Not fair. He's brought the team up from 30th in the league to now and will likely keep moving upward.Yup.
Ol' McLellan can win you all the games except the ones that matter.
Now that the boys have a taste of playoff hockey, hopefully they train harder in the offseason.
Good news is that contract wise, we got Klef and Larrsson locked up for a while.
Anyone afraid of the Oilers not re-signing Draisaitl this off-season is a lunatic.
I also fully expect "passengers" like Eberle and Pouliot to be unloaded this off-season. Oilers will probably have to take another team's expensive underachiever in return, but sometimes players just need a different coach or linemates.
You do realize what it costs in picks to make an offer sheet? And that the Oilers can match it if it happens? I guess you don't... yeah lets offer 10m, even though the league comparable are about 7m (Monahan is almost a perfect comparable / par for him stats wise, a bit less physical, but didn't get most of his points with best player in NHL) - brilliant, I'm glad PC is our GM and not you.Offer sheets exist, its a possibility. Drai could be a franchise player for some team. Its not inconceivable. Nor would you want to bridge contract Draisaitl..
Last edited by moahunter; 11-05-2017 at 08:26 AM.
Chiarelli should market Eberle and Nuge as the 2 best "shutdown" guys on the team.
I can at least appreciate Nuge trying to get physical. But Ebs just seems downright scared of getting hit.
Yep. Shutdown in the Belanger triangle sense. It would be nice if they were even low event players. But Ebs was do nothing AND -6.Chiarelli should market Eberle and Nuge as the 2 best "shutdown" guys on the team.
I feel sorry for any of the wingers that had to spend time on that line. It was night and day the worst Oilers line and the ONLY one that didn't produce. There was not one EV goal by the Nuge line the entire playoffs. Its uncanny, sort of..
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Nah, this occurred in this series and several times in the playoffs, and routinely in the regular season. Look at the picture;I can at least appreciate Nuge trying to get physical. But Ebs just seems downright scared of getting hit.
https://www.nhl.com/news/edmonton-lo...?tid=287345756
On the play in question Nuge is first arriving at the puck, but then he pretends to stumble and falls down on the ice. The Duck gets the puck. Scoring chance ensues. Nuge bailed from the hit.
I've learned to detect it as so many times Nuge will inexplicably loose his footing just prior to a puck battle or steer into the boards to avoid a hit, or simply fall down. Its embarrassing how often it occurs. I can't help but think Chia noticed. It was funny that the Journal even used that picture.
Nuge had some try to physically compete appear at times but he would definitely pick his spots. It would be when he's up against Cogliano or Silfverburg. Cogliano actually blew Nuge up a few times just throwing him off the puck. Lastly Nuge still doesn't have the conditioning sustain to play playoff hockey at a high speed and physical pace. For a supposed shutdown D he sure was late coming back to his own zone a lot of the time.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
The three players on that line did not do well playing together but they could do better individually on separate lines playing with others. They shouldn't have been left together. Pouliot especially is a heck of a worker and skater and could easily play alongside McD in my opinion but when playing on this line can't accomplish much. Remember the scoring Eberle did with McD early in the season? They could have maybe matched up some players differently toward the end.
Last edited by Drumbones; 11-05-2017 at 08:43 AM.
I think TM has been great, but if there is a knock on him, its the one TD just mentioned, he is known as a great regular season coach, but his teams have always failed at the next level. Still, next level is a huge step up for us.Not fair. He's brought the team up from 30th in the league to now and will likely keep moving upward.Yup.
Ol' McLellan can win you all the games except the ones that matter.
Someone needs to tell Lucic not to try and carry the puck through the neutral zone, in to the zone, or through D at the line. He never makes it. Stick to the corner and in front of the net.
The playoffs showed that our defence is actually pretty darn good right now. Kelfbom and Larsson are fantastic. Benning really turned out nice. If we could add a good offensive D, that would be ideal.
Goaltending is good. Caggiula matured nicely. Draisatl is a beast - so strong with the puck. If we could upgrade Sekera to a younger D with even more offence, get rid of Nuge, Ebs and season Broissoit a bit more, I think we can get to the cup final next year. Hopefully Pool party is ready to make the switch.
I still like Nuge, can we keep him?
And even more than that, it looks like he has no idea how to make a hit, or is extremely uncomfortable doing so. Perhaps because of nagging injury or fear of re-injury. But in the once in a blue moon occasions where he decides to actually throw a hit, he looks incredibly awkward doing it. But even that aside, he seems to have completely lost his competitive edge. You hardly ever noticed him out there during the season, whether because he generated a chance or because he made a hard effort or battled hard along the boards or whatever. Nope, the only time you really noticed him in the playoffs was when he was coughing up the puck along the wall in the D-zone because he was too busy dodging a hit.
I've been a defender of Eberle's in the past, although in the last year more because of team positional need for right handed shooters in the top lines. But after seeing him get out played by Slepyshev, Kassian, and Caggiulia in the playoffs there's no more defending Eberle. He was awful. And at this point his value on the trade market is probably damn near zero. I just hope when they trade him this offseason, that they don't end up taking a worse player/contract back.
I kept on hoping to see flashes of cocky Ebs. The one that scored the goal of the year for his first NHL goal. The one that embarrasses each and every goalie in shootouts. The slick ******* that could undress the D. Maybe his heart broke when Hall was traded. Maybe he's gained too much weight.
In some defense of Eberle he has at least been rocked by several monstrous hits and has had a couple of concussions and injuries because of it. He got stuck good in the Raffi Torres train a number of years back and its possibly had some impact on his game. Nuge avoids hits a lot of the time and protects himself more than the puck.
And even more than that, it looks like he has no idea how to make a hit, or is extremely uncomfortable doing so. Perhaps because of nagging injury or fear of re-injury. But in the once in a blue moon occasions where he decides to actually throw a hit, he looks incredibly awkward doing it. But even that aside, he seems to have completely lost his competitive edge. You hardly ever noticed him out there during the season, whether because he generated a chance or because he made a hard effort or battled hard along the boards or whatever. Nope, the only time you really noticed him in the playoffs was when he was coughing up the puck along the wall in the D-zone because he was too busy dodging a hit.
I've been a defender of Eberle's in the past, although in the last year more because of team positional need for right handed shooters in the top lines. But after seeing him get out played by Slepyshev, Kassian, and Caggiulia in the playoffs there's no more defending Eberle. He was awful. And at this point his value on the trade market is probably damn near zero. I just hope when they trade him this offseason, that they don't end up taking a worse player/contract back.
But for a long period of time now Eberle has been a spot picker who shows up in certain games, in certain shifts, and does well against certain teams. I just ran through his NHL splits and if one takes out Calgary (who Eberle had a lot of success against) Eberle only had 3 goals in 38GP against the other 14 playoff clubs in regular season. If you include playoffs its a pathetic 3 goals in 51GP against playoff clubs. This was something I was noting throughout the season ftr.
It was no surprise Eberle would not be in impact player in the playoffs. He' hasn't been an impact player against good squads. More typically he is not. OK player that will bag minimum 20 goal seasons, but don't expect anything in the playoffs. He's like a boy playing against men.
Last edited by Replacement; 11-05-2017 at 09:07 AM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
It was a bit of a surprise, though maybe not after this season. In the world juniors, he was always clutch.
I had this argument with Moa. That was a long time ago that Ebs was maybe clutch. Pre concussion, pre injuries, pre contract. Eberle is made now, personalities are different, players respond differently but the Eberle one hopes to see and the one that currently exists are separated by several years. Like many I can't believe this is the same player that scored that end to end goal against the Flames in his first game. Or that was a big part of Gagner's 8 pt game. Or that had 70some points in a season. That Eberle seems gone.It was a bit of a surprise, though maybe not after this season. In the world juniors, he was always clutch.
Just an added footnote. Way back to the partial lockout year people starting suspecting that Eberle is easily shutdown and that he always plays his best against weaker squads. Nuge, Eberle, Hall, all padded stats down in the AHL but curiously the team wasn't much better for it, and the team would still lose and be shutdown against the better defensive, and physical squads. Its something I always kept in the back of my mind.
Throw physical and tight checking at Eberle and he can't do much. He hasn't grown much since 18. That's a big factor. Other guys get bigger.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Well, the only other team he has coached is the Sharks, who are like the Washington Capitals of the West.
Caps haven't been in the finals in 20yrs. Way before OV. Sharks made the finals last season and were beaten by an excellent squad who have been untouchable since.
Well, the only other team he has coached is the Sharks, who are like the Washington Capitals of the West.
The fact is McLellan spent several seasons with the Sharks through several disappointing seasons and the first year they didn't have him as head coach they make it to the final.
STL is like the Washington Capitals.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
I think there are good odds we will - he provides center depth. While its great to think CMD and Draisaitl will never get injured, there is no certainty on that. You could trade him away, but would likely get a bad 6m contract back, with a player who is less versatile. I don't know what happens to Eberle, I expected him to step it up, and he didn't. Same problem with trading Nuge though, it won't be easy to move him, unless give him away (e.g. vegas). Won't have a serious cap problem for about 2 years I think, so PC doesn't have to make fire-sales or similar, he can bide his time. Its interesting, should be a much more attractive destination for free agents now - there might be some interesting options in the off season.
I understand we don't have to protect Nuge or Eberle. We could protect Letestu instead. For a team looking to meet the cap min, they might take a flyer on Nuge or even Ebs. Then we trade whosever left, for another bad contract, or eat half the contract.
^I'd protect Nuge. He is basically $2m overpaid, but "maybe" the offense will come back at some point. Its probably time for Eberle to move on, if there isn't a trade out there, then yeah, not protecting him is an option. You could just waive him as well (basically the same thing, assuming someone picks him up).
We will, and I like what Drai and Connor had to say on the matter but I don't know that its possible to ever get goaltending this out of this world again. The stats don't do it any justice. Talbot is making 15 sensational stops a night. The Oilers were being carved for turnovers countless times last night, left people open right in front of the net several times. Talbot just stoning them. The only ones that got through were results of serial in close chances where Talbot made multiple stops prior to the goals. On the last one he looked exhausted and was outside of his typical form as he had been facing a barrage. The 2nd period was relentless pressure.
As much as some players didn't show up we got premium performances from Talbot, Drai, McD, top 4 D, Letestu, Kassian, Maroon etc. There was something about the way this club came together this season and they were riding a high. Similar to the Oilers in 80 and 81. But it gets harder after. You have to bottle the initial enthusiasm, and elation, into something sustained. Like Letestu, a veteran, said, we won't know until next fall what we have.
Maroon was a major disappointment. He was dragging McDavid down. If people weren't bouncing pucks off him he wouldn't have gotten any goals in the playoffs. I am not seeing how you consider his play in the playoffs as a premium performance. He was slow and couldn't clear the puck out of his zone when at the boards. He was on the ice getting beat for the tying goal in game five watching his guy shoot the winning goal. I think you are just showing favouritism to him like you show hate for others.
I'm hopeful that Caggiula can grow into a role with McDavid. Maroon needs to be replaced on that line.
I got a feeling Maroon was injured by the sharks in Game 1.
I also don't think McDavid was at 100% for most of both series.
The biggest problem with RNH is Eberle. It is not fair to judge Nuge when he had to play with him all season and into the playoffs. A different winger who can skate and will go to the net and make space for himself would have been a huge asset to Nuge. He is also versatile killing penalties and playing on the power play. I still think there is an upside with him provided he has the correct wingers.
“Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan
I wonder if he didn't hurt his hand in a late season fight.
“Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan
Maroon was indeed injured. You could see he was hurt on the play, he's not a player that acts hurt to draw a penalty. He avoided some physical contact after that which is unlike him.
Still, 3G 5A 8pts in playoffs and he was also the one who sealed with a hit on the turnover that led to the Caggiulia goal. Maroon pressured and got in well on the play which added to the heat on the play.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
"How the season went" Do you deny Maroon had an excellent season overall?We will, and I like what Drai and Connor had to say on the matter but I don't know that its possible to ever get goaltending this out of this world again. The stats don't do it any justice. Talbot is making 15 sensational stops a night. The Oilers were being carved for turnovers countless times last night, left people open right in front of the net several times. Talbot just stoning them. The only ones that got through were results of serial in close chances where Talbot made multiple stops prior to the goals. On the last one he looked exhausted and was outside of his typical form as he had been facing a barrage. The 2nd period was relentless pressure.
As much as some players didn't show up we got premium performances from Talbot, Drai, McD, top 4 D, Letestu, Kassian, Maroon etc. There was something about the way this club came together this season and they were riding a high. Similar to the Oilers in 80 and 81. But it gets harder after. You have to bottle the initial enthusiasm, and elation, into something sustained. Like Letestu, a veteran, said, we won't know until next fall what we have.
Maroon was a major disappointment. He was dragging McDavid down. If people weren't bouncing pucks off him he wouldn't have gotten any goals in the playoffs. I am not seeing how you consider his play in the playoffs as a premium performance. He was slow and couldn't clear the puck out of his zone when at the boards. He was on the ice getting beat for the tying goal in game five watching his guy shoot the winning goal. I think you are just showing favouritism to him like you show hate for others.
I'm hopeful that Caggiula can grow into a role with McDavid. Maroon needs to be replaced on that line.
Last edited by Replacement; 11-05-2017 at 12:09 PM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Conversely it could be stated that Eberle playing with a Center with only 24 assists and that didn't generate anything off the rush was a considerable problem.The biggest problem with RNH is Eberle. It is not fair to judge Nuge when he had to play with him all season and into the playoffs. A different winger who can skate and will go to the net and make space for himself would have been a huge asset to Nuge. He is also versatile killing penalties and playing on the power play. I still think there is an upside with him provided he has the correct wingers.
Why is it that Lucic looked so good playing with a Center like Draisaitl or on the PP with McDavid and Drai and so poor with Nuge, even on the PP at times, with Nuge?
Next, Nuge is a pretty dull utility pencil. While he does play pk, and PP, he does neither well. His GA this season on pk hit 8GA/60mins. His PP contributions were very ordinary in relation to other players on this unit.
Even in his alleged shutdown role his GA is helped by spectacular play allseason by Talbot and by being with top 4 D that played very well.
Eberle has at least scored goals and has scored as many as 34 in a season. Nuge still hasn't hit 100 goals in his career.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Again, false claims with no support - Lucic played very well with Nuge and Eberle - it was a good line statistically and by eye, for a period (which seems the way in modern NHL - if a line settles for too long, the opposition figure it out, and it becomes ineffective), and it marked a turning point for Lucic who played well since.
http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/ho...its-paying-off
In the past nine games, shortly after Oilers GM Peter Chiarelli assured his team that no big moves would be coming up at the trade deadline, and right at the time that Oilers coach Todd McLellan re-united Lucic, Eberle and RNH on the same line (and combo with unimpressive results to that point), the three started to play well. In the past nine games, Lucic has scored eight points. While RNH and Eberle have yet to get a bundle of points, they’re playing solid two-way hockey at even strength.
Today at his presser, McLellan had this to say about Lucic: “He’s been a little bit more on his toes than his heals, half a step quicker, reading and reacting a little bit quicker, and the line, Nuge and Ebs have taken their game up as well, so that helps all three of them out.”
What the eye and the brain have noted is reflected in their underlying numbers. They’re contributing to far more scoring chances and making fewer mistakes on scoring chances against than in the first 60 games of the year. Both of them look more like their dynamic former selves.
Last edited by moahunter; 11-05-2017 at 12:29 PM.
Trading Ebs and Nuge isn't just for performance and fit with the team, the salaries are a big issue. Draisaitl needs to be re-signed this summer, and McDavid by next summer so those $6M contracts will need to be cleared lest they become barriers to signing free agents.
“You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012
"How the season went" Do you deny Maroon had an excellent season overall?We will, and I like what Drai and Connor had to say on the matter but I don't know that its possible to ever get goaltending this out of this world again. The stats don't do it any justice. Talbot is making 15 sensational stops a night. The Oilers were being carved for turnovers countless times last night, left people open right in front of the net several times. Talbot just stoning them. The only ones that got through were results of serial in close chances where Talbot made multiple stops prior to the goals. On the last one he looked exhausted and was outside of his typical form as he had been facing a barrage. The 2nd period was relentless pressure.
As much as some players didn't show up we got premium performances from Talbot, Drai, McD, top 4 D, Letestu, Kassian, Maroon etc. There was something about the way this club came together this season and they were riding a high. Similar to the Oilers in 80 and 81. But it gets harder after. You have to bottle the initial enthusiasm, and elation, into something sustained. Like Letestu, a veteran, said, we won't know until next fall what we have.
Maroon was a major disappointment. He was dragging McDavid down. If people weren't bouncing pucks off him he wouldn't have gotten any goals in the playoffs. I am not seeing how you consider his play in the playoffs as a premium performance. He was slow and couldn't clear the puck out of his zone when at the boards. He was on the ice getting beat for the tying goal in game five watching his guy shoot the winning goal. I think you are just showing favouritism to him like you show hate for others.
I'm hopeful that Caggiula can grow into a role with McDavid. Maroon needs to be replaced on that line.
No. Maroon had an excellent season making his playoff performance even more disappointing. Was this a 'career year' for Maroon? I think the Oilers need an upgrade to play with McDavid.
Nobody is saying that Maroon is the guy to be playing with McDavid longterm. He's affordable now, offers protection, has Connors back, is doing some heavy lifting of his own and contributing to whatever configuration being harder to play against. In short he's not a problem, who knows who slots in with McD eventually. Pulju maybe.
btw Maroons playoff production rate exceeded his season production rate. I'm not sure what was disappointing. Disappointing can be reserved for the multiple players on this team that put up zero's during the entire playoffs and that did very little in the regular season.
As many pundits comment, and every local journalist, its amazing Oilers got to game 7 of second round without the 2nd line scoring one goal.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
False claims with no support is the suggestion that the Nuge line had been clearly resurgent and that this meant that the line was going to do well in the playoffs and that Eberle was going to have a clutch hot postseason. btw multiple of those Lucic points were scored on the PP, on a different unit entirely, and not on the Nuge line. Talk about misleading indicators.Again, false claims with no support - Lucic played very well with Nuge and Eberle - it was a good line statistically and by eye, for a period (which seems the way in modern NHL - if a line settles for too long, the opposition figure it out, and it becomes ineffective), and it marked a turning point for Lucic who played well since.
http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/ho...its-paying-off
In the past nine games, shortly after Oilers GM Peter Chiarelli assured his team that no big moves would be coming up at the trade deadline, and right at the time that Oilers coach Todd McLellan re-united Lucic, Eberle and RNH on the same line (and combo with unimpressive results to that point), the three started to play well. In the past nine games, Lucic has scored eight points. While RNH and Eberle have yet to get a bundle of points, they’re playing solid two-way hockey at even strength.
Today at his presser, McLellan had this to say about Lucic: “He’s been a little bit more on his toes than his heals, half a step quicker, reading and reacting a little bit quicker, and the line, Nuge and Ebs have taken their game up as well, so that helps all three of them out.”
What the eye and the brain have noted is reflected in their underlying numbers. They’re contributing to far more scoring chances and making fewer mistakes on scoring chances against than in the first 60 games of the year. Both of them look more like their dynamic former selves.
I should be amazed really that are you continuing to quote that pablum article when its now been rendered completely false and that its obviously not "paying off".
Maybe you missed this but again, Eberle scored 3 goals all season and playoffs against playoff clubs not named Calgary. He scored the goals against Calgary at the times in the schedule that that the Flames were struggling.
As far as underlying numbers they are not cited. I infer those to be corsi related numbers. But Nuge and Eberle shoot the puck from anywhere in zone and their shot tallies is not necessarily consistent with their play and puck possession. Corsi is a by proxy attempt at measuring puck possession, it does not mean puck possession. A lot of users have difficulty differentiating that.
Finally, limited selective sample is not indicative, it is often not even meaningful. I don't expect you to realize this either.
Last edited by Replacement; 11-05-2017 at 12:48 PM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
^I know, if someone provides an article backing up what they say, its just crap, because you imagine you know more - you made the false claim Lucic was a failure with Nuge, whereas I provided support that was not the case - his season turned around when he went on that line. I think Nuge underperformed, but I also understand that centers are the most valuable of players (along with D) in the modern NHL - and that 6m for Nuge, while an overpayment of about 2m per year until this contract expires, isn't outrageous. Eberle I am more concerned at, but I don't know what the solution is there, as other teams aren't looking for $6m underperforming wingers - maybe even Los Vegas doesn't want that, not sure. But carry on claiming Draisaitl is going to demand 10m (even though every comparable recent RFA signing gets about 6 to 7m), and that Yakupov is a superstar we let slip away...
Last edited by moahunter; 11-05-2017 at 12:53 PM.
You were citing a false claim by Staples refuting a claim I made that the 18M buck line wasn't producing or pulling their weight commensurately. I stated the line did not look good, and was not a valid 2nd line. You've seen the subsequent results, the subsequent playoff results, the outright collapse and failure of Eberle and Nuge to produce anything, and you go back and cite the false article that led to your false conclusion.
Do results mean anything to you? Do you ever adjust your stance based on them. The Nuge line had the worst production of not only the Oilers but given that they scored zero goals as a line they had the worst production of any line, of any team in the playoffs.
not exactly what I think of as resurgent.
Any mention of Yakupov, or changing statements about Draisaitl is just attempt at distraction because you quite clearly have no argument. Nuge and Eberle laid an egg in the playoffs. Like I said they would.
Drai is a somewhat unique contractual case. He's an RFA that just happens to be topten in scoring in the league and 2nd in scoring in the playoffs. Half the clubs in this league he'd be the go to guy. One would think if ever an offer sheet occurs its in relation to this player. Further, why on Earth would Drai sign for what deadwood like Eberle and Nuge are making on the same club? He's of way more value than both of those players combined.
If I'm the Oilers I'm cutting bait on some deadwood players even with buybacks and ENSURING that the Oilers version of Malkin remains here longterm. Longterm will cost some money. A bridge contract would be the stupidest thing possible to do with Draisaitl who is quite clearly a superstar.
Last edited by Replacement; 11-05-2017 at 01:16 PM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
^Johnny Gaudreau is a superstar to many, he just signed 6 years at 6.75m. There is absolutely no reason why the Oilers would even think of going to 10m for Draisaitl. I like him a lot, probably my favorite Oiler (albeit I recognize his regular season stats are inflated by having played much of the year next to CMD), but that $10m is beyond nonsense for an RFA at his level. You are trying to create an imaginary $10m cap panic that just doesn't exist if contracts are managed properly.
http://thehockeywriters.com/edmonton...summer-payday/
PLAYER GP G A PTS +/- PIM TOI S P/GP CAP
Draisaitl 82 29 48 77 7 20 18:53 172 0.94 $925K
Tarasenko 82 39 36 75 -1 12 18:28 286 0.91 $7.5M
Wheeler 82 26 48 74 6 47 20:08 259 0.90 $5.6M
Panarin 82 31 43 74 18 21 19:28 211 0.90 $6.0M
Seguin 82 26 46 72 -15 22 18:27 301 0.88 $5.7M
Kessel 82 23 47 70 3 20 17:56 229 0.85 $8.0M
...
At the end of the day the Oilers have a precarious cap situation in the future, it’s the elephant in the room, and Chiarelli knows it. He’ll need to pay a top dollar for McDavid a year from now, and matching a cap comparable to Kessel’s $8 million per year is unreasonable and fiscally irresponsible.
If we’re looking at a deal that’s fair for both parties and one that gives Edmonton good value, $45.9 million over seven years ($6.56 million) with a modified NTC should be a reasonable deal for everyone.
Last edited by moahunter; 11-05-2017 at 01:44 PM.
At his level?!?
He was 8th in scoring in the entire league. 2nd in scoring in playoffs. he was near topten in scoring for awhile last season as well. He's a young player, who is a beast to play against, who is strong, a wrecking ball, a power forward. Unstoppable, and you compare him to Johnny hockey? I'm only left to believe you are trolling with these comments. There is nothing similar between these players and you seemingly don't comprehend the value of size and strength in todays NHL, and particularly in the playoffs and against big strong opponents.
Again, since you missed this Draisaitl could be a prime offersheet target. Or a potential one. This is a franchise player. The Oilers have the option of bridging (don't do it) or paying the player what he is actually worth longterm (a shitload)
The comparables to this player are not Gaudreau, Monahan, Eberle, Nuge, the comparables are Kopitar, Getzlaf. Those are the players most like Draisaitl. He's on that level, already. He's 21.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
^so you would pay him $10M because you imagine he can go to free agency like Getzlaf? Ok... I'd pay him 6.5 to 7m for 6 years, and I expect that's what PC will pay him, and what he will sign, but lets see who is right, and who is wrong.
I'll go with 9-10M. It really depends on if there are any offersheets.
The article comparables don't factor in that some of those players were signed to pre-emptive contracts that occurred prior to the players inflation in value. Draisaitl's value is known already. The Oilers aren't likely getting him on sale.
The one bad thing about this playoff run is it removed any bit of doubt, and negotiating space around how Drai would do on the biggest stage. he knocked repeated home runs and made it look easy. In his first go round.
Even the article states that Drai's pay will smash the 6M range the Oilers had established. One just can't argue he's in that pay range. Also Drai is significantly younger than any of those players, is owning the NHL even at his age of 21, and is clearly improving in leaps and bounds. This is why a bridge contract would be monumentally stupid with this player. So you're saying 6.5M to 7M for six years. I'll go with a similar range and say 9-10M for similar term. (my range is bigger due to inflation and relative pricing differential..)
For the sake of the Oilers I hope you are right, but Drai would really be doing the org a huge favor at that payscale and signing for part of his UFA years.
Players like Hall, Seguin, got less because there was already known flaws in their game, i.e. pretty clear one way players. Kessel similar. But Kessel has changed and commited to all round good play. He's grown up. Good fortune for the Pens. Blake Wheeler? Jebus, Draisaitl is way more of an asset than that.
With these Blake wheeler and Johnny Gaudreau type comparables I have to ask. Are you actually "Guymez" from hfboards. This sounds eerily familiar.. The Oilers are extremely lucky to have Draisaitl bloom into an elite player. Damn straight Chia would know what nature of player he is and that he has enormous skill and strength and is a wrecking ball power forward. This is quintessentially a Chia type player and sky is the limit for how good he becomes.
ps I will admit I thought Drai was turning UFA status one year earlier than it appears. I thought it was 2020-2021. just saying. With that stated it could be in 8-9M range. No way it should be 6-7M range.
In anycase 8M deal would represent our bet being a tie, neither of us being right, and anything over I win, anything lower you win.
Last edited by Replacement; 11-05-2017 at 02:24 PM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Gaudreau and Draisaitl are obviously completely different players. Centre is a more important position than wing, and Draisaitl can excel at both. That's not to take anything away from Gaudreau, who is a fantastic player.I'll go with 9-10M. It really depends on if there are any offersheets.
The article comparables don't factor in that some of those players were signed to pre-emptive contracts that occurred prior to the players inflation in value. Draisaitl's value is known already. The Oilers aren't likely getting him on sale.
The one bad thing about this playoff run is it removed any bit of doubt, and negotiating space around how Drai would do on the biggest stage. he knocked repeated home runs and made it look easy. In his first go round.
Even the article states that Drai's pay will smash the 6M range the Oilers had established. One just can't argue he's in that pay range. Also Drai is significantly younger than any of those players, is owning the NHL even at his age of 21, and is clearly improving in leaps and bounds. This is why a bridge contract would be monumentally stupid with this player. So you're saying 6.5M to 7M for six years. I'll go with a similar range and say 9-10M for similar term. (my range is bigger due to inflation and relative pricing differential..
For the sake of the Oilers I hope you are right, but Drai would really be doing the org a huge favor at that payscale and signing for part of his UFA years.
Players like Hall, Seguin, got less because there was already known flaws in their game, i.e. pretty clear one way players. Kessel similar. But Kessel has changed and commited to all round good play. He's grown up. Good fortune for the Pens. Blake Wheeler? Jebus, Draisaitl is way more of an asset than that.
With these Blake wheeler and Johnny Gaudreau type comparables I have to ask. Are you actually "Guymez" from hfboards. This sounds eerily familiar.. The Oilers are extremely lucky to have Draisaitl bloom into an elite player. Damn straight Chia would know what nature of player he is and that he has enormous skill and strength and is a wrecking ball power forward. This is quintessentially a Chia type player and sky is the limit for how good he becomes.
ps I will admit I thought Drai was turning UFA status one year earlier than it appears. I thought it was 2020-2021. just saying. With that stated it could be in 8-9M range. No way it should be 6-7M range.
The guys I'd compare him with are Monohan and Kopitar, though I think Draisaitl might be better than either of them.
I don't think an $8M long term contract is a reach at all. A great regular season, but his coming out party was when he got healthy in the playoffs.
The Oilers are going to be faced with some difficult decisions in the next couple of years. We still need a #1 D, preferably a right D, and they aren't cheap or easy to come by.
aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright
Monahan basically got the same contract as Gaudreau, mid 6m. That's where Draisaitl should come out as well, maybe 7 at top. That's the RFA comparable for a player you could bridge, but instead are giving an early pay day too. Draisaitl's regular season stats are a bit inflated by being on CMD's wing (just look at Maroon pre being an oiler), so the comparison is easy to make to Monohan (who is also a very good playoff performer - most goals for Flames in playoffs).
^^If someone does an offer sheet - that's good news not bad. You can choose to match (probably makes sense), or you can take the compensation. A 7m offer sheet is two first round picks, a second and a third. If someone offered him 10m its four 1st round picks, as great as Draisaitl is, that's a heck of a price - we can probably get a good center through free agency now we are a competitor.
Last edited by moahunter; 11-05-2017 at 04:53 PM.
Monahan basically got the same contract as Gaudreau, mid 6m. That's where Draisaitl should come out as well, maybe 7 at top. That's the RFA comparable for a player you could bridge, but instead are giving an early pay day too. Draisaitl's regular season stats are a bit inflated by being on CMD's wing (just look at Maroon pre being an oiler), so the comparison is easy to make to Monohan (who is also a very good playoff performer - most goals for Flames in playoffs).
^^If someone does an offer sheet - that's good news not bad. You can choose to match (probably makes sense), or you can take the compensation. A 7m offer sheet is two first round picks, a second and a third. If someone offered him 10m its four 1st round picks, as great as Draisaitl is, that's a heck of a price - we can probably get a good center through free agency now we are a competitor.
If somebody offer sheeted Draisaitl, and the Oilers didn't match, they would completely blow it. The chances of getting a better than Draisaitl player through the draft would be one in a 100 because nobody with a first or second pick are going to be ones offer sheeting. But for a ton of teams picking beyond 5th and with capspace, why wouldn't you do it. The Oilers are an unpopular enough team around the league somebody might. That's the whole premise of my price range. Offer sheets are always inflated as an inducement. The trouble is the Oilers, with 16M deadwood contracts just to deadwood like Nuge, Eberle, Pouliot, alone are an obvious target. Go 6-9M and the Oilers can't even match without paring. Its a joke how cap exposed the Oilers are considering so many players on ELC and that they have not been a competitive squad until now. we're the ideal team to raid and Drai the ideal player to go after.
Last edited by Replacement; 11-05-2017 at 05:35 PM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Yep.Gaudreau and Draisaitl are obviously completely different players. Centre is a more important position than wing, and Draisaitl can excel at both. That's not to take anything away from Gaudreau, who is a fantastic player.I'll go with 9-10M. It really depends on if there are any offersheets.
The article comparables don't factor in that some of those players were signed to pre-emptive contracts that occurred prior to the players inflation in value. Draisaitl's value is known already. The Oilers aren't likely getting him on sale.
The one bad thing about this playoff run is it removed any bit of doubt, and negotiating space around how Drai would do on the biggest stage. he knocked repeated home runs and made it look easy. In his first go round.
Even the article states that Drai's pay will smash the 6M range the Oilers had established. One just can't argue he's in that pay range. Also Drai is significantly younger than any of those players, is owning the NHL even at his age of 21, and is clearly improving in leaps and bounds. This is why a bridge contract would be monumentally stupid with this player. So you're saying 6.5M to 7M for six years. I'll go with a similar range and say 9-10M for similar term. (my range is bigger due to inflation and relative pricing differential..
For the sake of the Oilers I hope you are right, but Drai would really be doing the org a huge favor at that payscale and signing for part of his UFA years.
Players like Hall, Seguin, got less because there was already known flaws in their game, i.e. pretty clear one way players. Kessel similar. But Kessel has changed and commited to all round good play. He's grown up. Good fortune for the Pens. Blake Wheeler? Jebus, Draisaitl is way more of an asset than that.
With these Blake wheeler and Johnny Gaudreau type comparables I have to ask. Are you actually "Guymez" from hfboards. This sounds eerily familiar.. The Oilers are extremely lucky to have Draisaitl bloom into an elite player. Damn straight Chia would know what nature of player he is and that he has enormous skill and strength and is a wrecking ball power forward. This is quintessentially a Chia type player and sky is the limit for how good he becomes.
ps I will admit I thought Drai was turning UFA status one year earlier than it appears. I thought it was 2020-2021. just saying. With that stated it could be in 8-9M range. No way it should be 6-7M range.
The guys I'd compare him with are Monohan and Kopitar, though I think Draisaitl might be better than either of them.
I don't think an $8M long term contract is a reach at all. A great regular season, but his coming out party was when he got healthy in the playoffs.
The Oilers are going to be faced with some difficult decisions in the next couple of years. We still need a #1 D, preferably a right D, and they aren't cheap or easy to come by.
Drai essentially went PPG in Reg Season and Playoffs combined and EXCEEDED PPG in playoffs which is out of this world. This just happened. The Oilers were playing wait and see. Well this is what they got. Drai in a show me year showing it in spades.
I think it was Bruce McCurdy that mentioned Drais agent probably not too thrilled that the Oilers played Drai almost half a season but sent him down rookie year to avoid using up ELC year. This is good for team, but not contractually so good for player. In this sense the Oilers already got their home discount as McCurdy states. Don't expect a 2nd one. As much as Drai likes it here this is now business. His value has few peers.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Replacement is familiar with the $10M a year contract, just look at his favorite hockey player Kopitar and what he did this year?
I agree on the neighborhood of 6-8 million. You can't dish out 10M dollar contracts based off of one good year, no matter how good... These guys who are getting 10M are bonifide superstars and have been proving themselves year after year.
Lets chronically misrepresent other posters stated positions. Again, if a club decided to offersheet Drai 9M what are the Oilers going to do? Take the stupid draft picks over a bonafide superstar? Yes, Drai is a superstar. A large power forward owning the NHL at age of 21 doesn't get worse, they get better. In fact its extremely rare to have a player Drais's size, age, physicality that has such supreme coordination already at a young age. Most have to grow into their size and learn how to use it. Perhaps its not obvious because we have McDavid but Drai is one of the best dozen forwards in the NHL, right now, and getting better. So yeah, theres going to be a lot of interest in how the Oilers handle this.Replacement is familiar with the $10M a year contract, just look at his favorite hockey player Kopitar and what he did this year?
I agree on the neighborhood of 6-8 million. You can't dish out 10M dollar contracts based off of one good year, no matter how good... These guys who are getting 10M are bonifide superstars and have been proving themselves year after year.
obviously you don't pay Drai 10M longterm just because, you pay it because you might have to.
As for Kopitar he's solid value. With two SC's he's already earned his contract. Anything else is gravy. Kings have done well revenue wise over the course of the cup wins. A lot better than teams in Cali typically do. So the money is well spent. Kopitar was fine as soon as Iginla showed up. The problem is Gaborik, not Kopitar. You'd have to watch a few Kings games to realize that.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
I'm not sure how accurate capfriendly really is. It's more complicated than I can comprehend. I read, in the Journal I believe, that with the bonuses earned by McD and Draisaitl on their entry level contracts that it put the Oilers about a million over the cap (which carries over to next season).
I like that the Oilers are already talking about putting this season behind us and working toward next year.
It doesn't get easier. It gets harder. Lots of teams do really well one season, and just when the future looks bright they fall apart. Best to nip that in the bud right away. Of course no other team has McDavid. It's like starting every game with a goal advantage.
That said, I thought this year's road to the Cup was easier than I've ever seen it, with Minny and the Hawks both gone first round, and the injuries SJ had to deal with. I don't know how the Pens keep winning (getting great tending from Fleury helps). Letang is out, and he was one of the keys last year. A huge loss for the Pens, but they keep rolling. The injury to Murray shows how important a good backup can be. One of the strengths of the Pens is their great farm system. Something we should emulate.
The Oilers had no real injuries to their key players this season, which was remarkable. Hope it continues. Especially with McD and/or Talbot.
Pujujarvi has to be ready next season. I've heard talk that we might lose Khaira in the expansion draft. I hope not, because I think he has tons of potential. It's going to be a challenge to move Ebs, RNH, or Pouliot without taking back a good chunk of salary. I don't know that we'll get back any value at all, and maybe keeping them, and hoping they can step it up, is the best option available to us.
Those contracts are looking like boat anchors for the duration if they don't perform a lot better. But, believe it or not, there are a few NHLers at that rate of pay that underperformed Eberle. If Eberle becomes the next requisite pet whipping boy for Oilers fans he should go somewhere else. Nobody needs that, but Oilers fans do it every year.
Signing Draisaitl and McDavid will be expensive. I still think RNH is a very good player. Ebs looked lost in the playoffs. Needs to get his nose dirty. Pouliot was signed for his play in the playoffs, and, indeed, he played better, but still not enough of what we were looking for from him.
We also have Lucic at $6M for 6 more seasons (!), who is likely a diminishing asset. That's $22M for four players who make more than the entire D corps combined. Not a recipe for success going forward, and I expect something will need to change.
On D our top 3 are locked up for reasonable cap hits. Russell played well, and he should be resigned if we can get him at the same price. He's might be looking for some term, though, and I don't think we will have the space down the road a couple of years. Benning is also in line for a raise in two years, especially if he steps into a top four pairing role as projected by some. Nurse is like a tale of two players, one that can take control and lead the rush, and the other trying to do two or three things at once. I hope this year's playoff run helps him take a big step forward. He comes off his EL contract after next season too.
Larsson is an essential piece, as a right shooting D. That's a reason to keep Gryba as a 7 D, too. Right D seems to be the hardest position to fill, after goaltender.
We have Ethan Bear and Caleb Jones as promising Junior D. We might need to bring them into the fold sooner than optimal for salary cap reasons.
The future looks bright, but there's lots of challenges too.
aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright
I'm very curious to see what happens with Eberle in particular, my hunch is that Chiarelli sells low and dumps him for spare parts. The thing is, it is pretty easy to gauge Eberle's value, because a whole fleet of forwards signed $6M deals just last summer for either 6 or 7 years. Eberle had 51 points last year
David Backes- 38 points (45 points last year)
Andrew Ladd - 31 points (46 points last year)
Kyle Okposo - 45 points in 65 games (64 points last year)
Loui Eriksson - 24 points in 65 games (63 points last year)
and of course,
Milan Lucic - 50 points (55 points last year)
Eberle is significantly younger than all of these guys, and has only 2 years left rather than 6 or 7 that these guys got. The idea that teams wouldn't jump at the chance if he became available is kind of silly. He is not a bargain at $6M, but he is paid right around what the market would bear, without the risk of falling off a cliff like some of these guys. I highly doubt he finishes his contract in Edmonton, they will eventually need to clear out space, but no need to give him away, and absolutely they should not retain salary, if the right deal is not there.
It would be easier to keep him if either Fayne or Pouliot's contracts could be moved out, but Chiarelli & McLellan do not seem interested in the idea of trying to pump up assets for the purposes of trade, so both likely stick around.
Its not points alone. Its intangibles like strength, willingness to battle, perseverance, make sacrifices and have some grit in game. That's the NHL game, that's the reality, and that gets magnified in the playoffs. All the players you listed can play a big game, a physical game, and be difficult to play against. Eberle is a small forward with zero grit that plays like a Lady Byng candidate. What D or forward would he intimidate out there in battle. What do opponents have to worry about with him? Anything? He's a disappearing act when the games get physical. Exhibit A for a player that Wouldn't have your back.
What needs to be remembered as well is which clubs that players like Eberle have success against. Here's an interesting thing. If you take all playoff bound clubs this season, minus Calgary, Eberle had 3 goals in those 38 games. If you add the playoff games he had 3 goals in 51 games played against playoff clubs. So Eberle had 17 of his goals against the weaker teams in the league and in 44 games. So the disparity is interesting, and probably revealing.
This was something that's been noted before with Eberle and even in the Lockout AHL tenure, in the half season there Eberle etal would feed like sharks against weaker opposition but struggle against better teams that played a close checking system. Fact of the matter is Eberle has RARELY had success against tight checking. its when teams open it up, or are no good in the first place that he's able to exploit. Eberle would be awesome at a non hitting version of hockey. That isn't this league.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Just in case anyone cares, the Oilers now pick 22nd in this year's draft!
“You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012
Fayne will likely be gone too. Part of me wonders if Pululjarvi will improve like Draisaitl in his second year.
I wonder if the Oilers will be looking at a faceoff specialist too.
"Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.
Part of me wonders if Pululjarvi will improve like Draisaitl in his second year.
I think he'll make a big step forward in the fall. As big as Draisaitl from first to second to third? Impossible to say. But his knowing the language, the North American game, and being 19 (which he just turned last week) will all help him a lot. Keep in mind, as well, that Draisaitl already knew the language and the smaller ice surface when he came out of junior, so if anything, Puljujarvi had to overcome even more in his first season. That being said, he still shouldn't be expected to be playing against the other team's best line, or playing much more than 12-14 minutes a night. The Oilers are still going to need two serviceable right wingers to play ahead of him. If he leapfrogs them, great. But the team can't assume he will.
It makes the team tougher. Growing pains. The playoffs are ruthless and only the toughest survive.
The NHL's stance was mentioned before. NHL logic apparently being a player is not responsible for any action subsequent to being pushed into the goalie. Its ridiculous the NHL refuses to comment on the one action further occurrence, or even acknowledge that it occurred.
A preds player had a funny comment post game saying "It kinda sucks removing Keslers stick from my groin after every scrimmage". A subtle attempt to get officials to take notice.
The only bias I discern with NHL officiating is they don't allowing for a bit of villainous behavior because it causes controversy, creates hits and with any press being good press according to the NHL.
Troll officiating designed to get fans angry about calls was started in Wrestling. The concept has made its way into mainstream sports imo. I don't know that it would be possible to accidentally make decisions, ignore pertinent occurrence as much as what occurs. in most pro sports. Its purposeful only in the sense that it probably does cause interest and ratings. Controversy creates attention, its sad, but it does.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
The others go golfing. Eberle probably not amused he lost a month of putts. Seriously the guy played the entire postseason like he wanted the Oilers post season foray to be over.
Theres players that have the passion, have the pride, really want the ultimate prize and you can pretty much count down which players have that fire and which don't, but say all the right things.
"Yeah I didn't score for over a month and that's my job but it sucks that I didn't score.."
What other endeavor rewards abject failure with consistently longer holidays and pays in the nature of millions? Pride notwithstanding I think I'd take that job.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Sekera out for 6-9 months with torn ACL.
That sounds like a major tear of the ACL. Doesn't bode well for the teams start next season as puts the timeline for a return around Christmas. Oilers better sign Russell.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Russell is Sekera's partner. Stated that he played better with Sekera around.
Should be interesting with Ethan Bear and Caleb Jones finishing off their junior careers, whether they spend some time in the AHL or come straight to the NHL.
^its also interesting with Reinhart. A lot of people think he will be the one Vegas end up taking - he seemed to rebuild his career a bit over the season - he came in, supposedly, in poor physical condition, but finished strong with a good AHL performance, and a useful step in, in the playoffs.
Please Vegas, take Ebs and Nuge, we need big money for McDavid and Dria.
Mom said I should not talk to cretins!
I suspect the Oilers might keep Fayne until the contract expires. If they buy him out, the cap hit gets split and stays on for a year longer, I believe. Frankly, I don't think he's as bad as he is made out to be. Maybe the relationship just went South and stayed there.
Pululjarvi is still so young. He didn't have a great year, and isn't looking great at the Worlds from what I've heard, but it's way too soon to judge. He's got lots of skill. But I still found it odd when Columbus passed on him, given he was one of the top three said to be way out front of the pack, and that Columbus' GM is Finnish.
I just like the kid a lot. Always has a big goofy grin on his face. Seems like a very smart player. Still needs some time to adjust and learn the game. Hope to see some of him on the big team next season.
Last edited by Jimbo; 17-05-2017 at 04:00 AM.
aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright
What are you smoking? Neither will be exposed in the expansion draft, because you don't just give away assets like that (even if Eberle's value is low, there is still value there). And teams can only lose 1 player in the expansion draft. Not to mention that no, the Oilers do not need "big money" for McDavid for the upcoming season, because he's still on an entry level deal. His extension won't kick in till the 2018/19 season. There really isn't a desperate need to ditch either player for cap reasons. Not yet, anyway.
^I agree, and it matches what PC is saying. There is no cap issue next year, there is no need to disrupt this team, they just had a great year, and first experience for many in the playoffs. Let them grow.
http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/ho...cant-fall-backMost of the Oilers’ fan base, I’d wager, are expecting one or both of The Nuge and Eberle to move on, but Chiarelli – who watched the two $6-million players play a big part in the Oilers’ down-the-stretch-drive, but also both fail to score a single goal in the playoffs – suggests not.
“It was their first time in the playoffs and it’s a different animal,” he said. “I have to be careful. With regards to Ebs, he’s a very skilled player and I know there are some things under the spotlight in a negative fashion but he’s a guy in the playoffs for the first time and I like the way he finished the regular season. He was our third-leading scorer and I guess the takeaway from that is we have to be careful how we evaluate him.”
One thing that screamed at you during the playoffs was just how out-classed the Oilers were in the faceoff circle. But Chiarelli is preaching patience more than change.
“We’d like to improve our faceoffs. We need to be stronger. But that will improve with guys working on it. I’m sitting there in the exit meetings with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. He’s getting big. He’s getting strong. He’s six-foot-one and almost 200 pounds. That will come. I can see him becoming a man.”
When it comes to the defence, like it or not that’s where the Oilers are developing as they go.
“I think, for now, I’m pretty happy with the D,” said Chiarelli. “Do we have a championship D core? I’m not sure yet. There’s room for growth and we have to allow space for that.”
Last edited by moahunter; 17-05-2017 at 09:22 AM.
That the team had a good season, and that multiple players on it had mediocre seasons is not mutually exclusive. Nuge, Eberle, Pouliot have clearly diminishing value and absolutely not commensurate with their contracts. If we lost any of these players I wouldn't be concerned about it. I would hope that we will lose one of these players. But we will lose Russell, who will be left unprotected and of more value than any of these players.
I laughed at the part that said Nuge and Eberle were a big part in the teams stretch. That was not Chia's comment, its Jones preamble.
Chia on Nuge; "He’s getting big. He’s getting strong. He’s six-foot-one and almost 200 pounds. That will come. I can see him becoming a man.”
He's 24yrs old and still has the physique of a youth. For a professional athlete his strength and build is pretty disappointing as it befits his position as a Center in the NHL WC. I'm trying to think if there is a physically weaker topnine Center in the whole WC.
I'm not sure what it is but McLellan is high on this guy and Chia seems not to want to disturb that. So the false notion of a shutdown Center continues.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
You forgetting Draisaitl? Other GM's around the league won't. The Oilers may need contractual space depending on what that contract ends up looking like. One of Eberle or Nuge will be moved. As a GM you don't tip your hat at that. Sure Eberle has value as a goal scorer but his best gun shooting days seem past him. He's also 27, not a spring chicken anymore, and a notion of continual improvement that we tend to have here is not really founded for Eberle, who has been adversely impacted by NHL physical play, and plays a bit gunshy of it.
The reality is Eberle is a 20something goal scorer now and a declining asset. The further reality is a winger like Slepy, given same minutes and linemates could probably pop 20 himself and at far less pay and with also bringing a noted physical game. There was a combo in the playoffs with Lucic, Drai, Slepy that looked like a dominant line. They didn't stay with that but it looks like a pretty competent 2nd line. Slepy right now is a more confident shooter than Eberle. I think he's ready to be a 20something goal scorer.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
If that Nuge/Eberle/Pouliot line were able to chip in the odd goal here or there this playoffs, we'd be talking about the Oilers possibly winning the Stanley Cup right now. What a letdown those guys were.
It also explains why the team stunk so bad when Nuge and Eberle were our top line players for so many years. Nuge, being a center, is more valuable than Eberle, but both should be considered trade bait.
How many offer sheets did Monahan get, a comparable contract to what Draisaitl will be offered? If someone offer sheets Draisaitl, then I am sure PC will worry about it then, but the odds are slim.You forgetting Draisaitl? Other GM's around the league won't.
That the two were wearing letters all season, and had been made AC's at the start of the season is odd as well. I think the org made a desperate attempt trying to kickstart something in these players. Even providing the motivation of Captaincy beyond their lucrative contracts. So that we got zero goals out of these two even with the org doing everything possible to motivate them to succeed. Nuge particularly even had substantial prime PP toi and seemed to be out there and double shifted whenever the club got a 5 on 3 chance which afairc occurred 3 times in the playoffs. Nuge even missed an empty netter in his string of 16 games without a goal.
If these players were good or great at other facets of the game maybe you could rationalize the contracts. That they are both physically weak players that lose puck battles a lot and that bring no intangibles is more of a problem.
You can have these players in your lineup and shelter them if they are productive. If they are not offensively productive, and are not shutdown players why have them? Also shutdown forwards typically don't get paid this much.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Here you are again comparing Draisaitl to Monahan. Tell me, how on Earth am I to take that comparison seriously? Its the kind of comparison a Flames fan would make. The same ones that would suggest Gaudreau=McDavid.How many offer sheets did Monahan get, a comparable contract to what Draisaitl will be offered? If someone offer sheets Draisaitl, then I am sure PC will worry about it then, but the odds are slim.You forgetting Draisaitl? Other GM's around the league won't.
Last edited by Replacement; 17-05-2017 at 10:50 AM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
You are an odd mix of players you irrationally think are superstars, and players you think suck. I think Monahan (and Gaudreau) are very comparable to Draisaitl in terms of the status of their contracts (option for team to either bridge or sign long term), and performance. I would have thought by now the Oilers have learned to appropriately value players (Eberle and Nuge with hindsite should both have got bridge). Draisaitl is a terrific player, but as an RFA getting his first big contract, and an RFA who benefited immensely during the regular season from being on CMD's wing, pretty much every analyst is predicting will get a salary between 6 and 7m. Lets see if you are right, or I am right. The idea there are a bunch of teams with the cap space and the picks to offer him a massive upgrade on that, is very fanciful to say the least.
Last edited by moahunter; 17-05-2017 at 11:00 AM.
After some musing about, I'm sitting on a flat fence about the Ebs/RNH/Pouliot line. RNH scored what 7 game winning goals last season? Some of Pouliot's game during the playoffs was even highlighted by the Sportsnet panel. After hearing PC talk last night other then some long term injuries the Oilers ship is on calm waters. Maybe Eberle could be good trade bait or even left as one of the players left unprotected for Vegas. With some interesting players in the system like Edmonton born Sam Steel (same height as Eberle) Steel (C) might be a good replacement for Ebs in the expansion draft. I realize Ebs is RW. And after reading Craig Button's article in the Journal he has some interesting insights into trading a player etc. Someone mentioned Reinhart in the trade conversation but with Sereka gone long term trading a good D like Reinhart is a fools errand imo. As for Jessie Pululjarvi he's a big body but I think another year in the minors would be a good fit for him.
Mom said I should not talk to cretins!
Lucic bailed them out for a season but he tired , he maybe last another year . If I were David I would look for any way out. Katz organization is a joke
What you don't seem to understand is that Draisaitl is unlike Mohahan, or Gaudreau in that he is a power forward physical beast. A guy that dominates at the highest level against the best teams. A guy who's development is being meteoric. That is the difference. Both Gaudrea and Mohahan are not evoking the same ascendency.You are an odd mix of players you irrationally think are superstars, and players you think suck. I think Monahan (and Gaudreau) are very comparable to Draisaitl in terms of the status of their contracts (option for team to either bridge or sign long term), and performance. I would have thought by now the Oilers have learned to appropriately value players (Eberle and Nuge with hindsite should both have got bridge). Draisaitl is a terrific player, but as an RFA getting his first big contract, and an RFA who benefited immensely during the regular season from being on CMD's wing, pretty much every analyst is predicting will get a salary between 6 and 7m. Lets see if you are right, or I am right. The idea there are a bunch of teams with the cap space and the picks to offer him a massive upgrade on that, is very fanciful to say the least.
What the bet will hinge on, as stated, is whether there is actually an offer sheet. The Flyers, particularly, would love Draisaitl and are a team that have offer sheeted twice in this CBA and as recently as 2012 with Shea Weber. I haven't seen the kind of buzz around whether there will be an offer sheet since Weber. As much as Chia is downplaying it.
I really think Drai is one of the best dozen forwards in the NHL. Right now. With him improving and a chance at being as good as one of the top handful of NHL forwards. The way he see's the ice, his passing, his vision and understanding of what opportunities wil ensue. This guy at a young age has predatorial hockey vision. He's a splendid player, a punishing player, and a beast that is unstoppable.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
No. Are you forgetting Pouliot, Fayne, Hendricks, Desharnais, Ference and Russell? All are either on expiring contracts, or likely to be bought out or moved along (although Russell is likely to be brought back after the expansion draft). Again, the Oilers do not have a big cap concern for 17/18, even with RNH and Eberle on the team. There is no need to panic and and get rid of them for nothing, as envaneo seemed to think. If a good opportunity comes along to move one of them this off season for good value, great.
I think he is a terrific player, who had an excellent season (much of it on Connors wing), and a good playoff series. Monahan has centered the Flames with no superstar on his wing, and has also been a top playoff performer (not so much physical impact but just constant goal scoring), he is a proven first line NHL center. I don't think he was as good as Draisaitl last year, but I do think his contract is extremely comparable. The Oilers would have drafted Monahan if the Flames had not (ended up with Nurse). If someone makes an offer sheet for Draisaitl, I think PC will just match (although I would consider the picks if over 10m - four first rounder's is enormous value in modern NHL as they are almost never traded now - that could set team up for a decade), so its no big deal, but very unlikely as other teams also want to lock in such players at the comparable that has been set, which is the same money Hall correctly got, about 6m.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/e...russell-draft/We are not scared of your Draisaitl offer sheet
The GM characterized a hypothetical offer sheet for his impending RFA as "predatory," a move that would only drive market prices up but serve no other purpose. He did say that the chances of such a rarity increase when a player like Draisaitl remains unsigned late into summer.
"We have a lot of cap space to match. Other than to penalize us, I don't know why a team would do that," Chiarelli said.
According to Chiarelli, Draistail's representatives say the centre wants to stay in Edmonton. Negotiations could get tricky in light of the McDavid deal, but Chiarelli conveyed confidence.
"I don't anticipate a problem there," he said.
Last edited by moahunter; 17-05-2017 at 11:36 AM.
What value are Nuge and Eberle contractually? You can't even trade these contracts without buyback. 6M for these players? What kind of return do you get for that. The Oilers have been fishing Eberle for at least 2 seasons and were fishing both eberle and Nuge last offseason. After another nothing season from these two its hard to imagine one not being dealt and for negligible, probably pick(s) return.
No. Are you forgetting Pouliot, Fayne, Hendricks, Desharnais, Ference and Russell? All are either on expiring contracts, or likely to be bought out or moved along (although Russell is likely to be brought back after the expansion draft). Again, the Oilers do not have a big cap concern for 17/18, even with RNH and Eberle on the team. There is no need to panic and and get rid of them for nothing, as envaneo seemed to think. If a good opportunity comes along to move one of them this off season for good value, great.
Last edited by Replacement; 17-05-2017 at 11:39 AM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
I already alluded to Chia's comments so obviously I was aware of them. Where I differ is that an offer sheet makes a lot of sense regarding this player, and even a predatory offer sheet play. Whats to stop a club, even a WC club from offersheeting Drai high so that the Oilers match and end up paying more for this player? To this end both the Oilers, and Draisaitl are in a clear ascendency and are forces to contend with. Its noted that the Oilers are the new kid on the block to worry about. Even a predatory rationale makes sense. Nothing much lost for a divisional or WC club to want the player, offer sheet him, and if it gets matched you still accomplished something.I think he is a terrific player, who had an excellent season (much of it on Connors wing), and a good playoff series. Monhan has centered the Flames with no superstar on his wing, and has also been a top playoff performer (not so much physical impact but just constant goal scoring). I don't think he was as good as Draisaitl last year, but I do think his contract is extremely comparable. The Oilers would have drafted Monahan if the Flames had not (ended up with Nurse). If someone makes an offer sheet for Draisaitl, I think PC will just match (although I would consider the picks if over 10m - four first rounder's is enormous value in modern NHL as they are almost never traded now - that could set team up for a decade), so its no big deal, but very unlikely as other teams also want to lock in such players at the comparable that has been set, which is the same money Hall correctly got, about 6m.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/e...russell-draft/We are not scared of your Draisaitl offer sheet
The GM characterized a hypothetical offer sheet for his impending RFA as "predatory," a move that would only drive market prices up but serve no other purpose. He did say that the chances of such a rarity increase when a player like Draisaitl remains unsigned late into summer.
"We have a lot of cap space to match. Other than to penalize us, I don't know why a team would do that," Chiarelli said.
According to Chiarelli, Draistail's representatives say the centre wants to stay in Edmonton. Negotiations could get tricky in light of the McDavid deal, but Chiarelli conveyed confidence.
"I don't anticipate a problem there," he said.
I doubt any WC team ever had such concerns about the Calgary Flames, lol. The Flames are inconsequential, as are Gaudreau and Mohahan, neither of which are generational franchise players which I think Draisaitl could be. To me he's Malkin. That's how good I think he is.
Last edited by Replacement; 17-05-2017 at 11:41 AM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
^I think it won't happen for the exact reasons that PC says, which are the same reasons why Monahan, and a lot of other players in that range, have not received offer sheets, but if it happens, so be it, its not the end of the world, we still have plenty of cap space and plenty of time. I think the idea that you somehow formed that Drasaitl is a CMD / Austin Matthews class player, and not a Seguin / Monahan class player, is pretty silly.
I'm not saying that they have amazing value. I'm saying that getting rid of them for no return and for no reason as envaneo suggested would be terrible asset management. That's it.
This is splitting hairs. You agree they have uncertain value, and you state that the Oilers should obtain value. Which is it?
I'm not saying that they have amazing value. I'm saying that getting rid of them for no return and for no reason as envaneo suggested would be terrible asset management. That's it.
The reality is the return for either of these contracts would be sparse. Its got very little to do with asset management if the contracts are not appreciable assets.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Not silly at all. Have you watched Draisaitl very much? Certainly I see him as Exceeding Monahan value. Probably exceeding Sequin value as Drai has a better all round game and much harder to play against.
Connor and Austin have more silky smooth skill. Drai is a more rugged player and hard to contain. I see more Lindros in Draisaitl, whereas the other two are more Lemieux.
The Lindros comparable and Legion of Doom style that Drai brings would be another reason for the Flyers specific interest.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
^Draisaitil has one 77 point season (with a full year of CMD), one 51, and one 9. Seguin's last four seasons average 76.5. Seguin has a lot more goals, averaging 33 per year. Hall, Seguin, Monahan, Gaudreau (also a high 70 to 80 point player), Draisaitl, they are all 6 to 7m players as RFA's. As true free agents, I expect all of them will eventually get more. But yeah, I'm not surprised that the guy who thinks Yakupov is an NHL player, thinks Draisaitl is the next coming of Christ, rather than what his actual performance is (which is excellent, perhaps franchise, but not superstar).
Last edited by moahunter; 17-05-2017 at 12:19 PM.
Draisaitl has a far superior all round game to any of those players all of whom are defensively suspect. (Mohanan has been sheltered by historically better D) Draisaitl is more of a Lindros than any of those players. In the WC, especially, that matters, a lot. This Oilers team would not have got far without Draisaitl.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
^Monahan plays first line center with no superstar on his wing. Seguin does too. You are in dream land if you think Drai is in a higher league than these excellent players. I am so glad you are not GM, Yakupov would be on Connors wing earning 7m, and you would just hand away 10m to Drai even though we can easily lock him up for less than 7 for six years.
Drai looked fantastic playing with Slepy and Lucic. You could even throw Slepy and Kass in with him and he would look fantastic. Not sure what you've been looking at. If the Oilers get Drai at 6M it would be a steal. But like I said given that punters like Eberle and Nuge are making that I can't see how Drai's camp would agree to that. The trouble in this contract is that if there is ANY impasse, then expect offers. No way the Oilers are going to hardball this one. Drai even at his young age was bumping Nuge down the lineup any time he played Center. We all know this, the league knows it.
As far as who the linemates are Monahan is MORE dependent, and has more toi with Gaudreau, than Drai has with McDavid. Monahan plays with Gaudreau around 72% of the time EV. Drai played with McDavid 51% of the time EV. Yet you somehow find Draisaitls results more dependent. Maybe fact check a bit.
This is an easy enough resource to use to get the actual played with information;
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...016-17&sit=5v5
Last edited by Replacement; 17-05-2017 at 01:11 PM.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, Chiarelli is a finalist for GM of the Year award
http://www.tsn.ca/chiarelli-dorion-p...award-1.753699
“You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012
You said a minute ago that Gaudreau sucked - yet now you are comparing him to CMD? I think you just don't understand how NHL contracts work. NHL stars getting their first big pay day as RFA's don't get as much as when they are free agents. If you look at Malkin, who you keep comparing Drai too, he was getting 8.4m a year at the end of his old contract, but that was after 100 point years (he was putting up numbers close to CMD when he was at Draisaitls experience). Not much more, about 1.5 to 2m, than what Hall, or Gaudreau, or Monahan, or Draisaitil will make. When he got extended, then he got 10m (because he has earned his dues / can go to free agency and get that money), and that's what you will see with Seguin and all those players, will get close too then (I'm guessing around 8m as unlike Malkin, they will never be borderline generational). Draisaitl will get a 6 to 7m contract, and that's in keeping with other young star players in the NHL, coming off their entry deal and going onto a long term (as opposed to a bridge), who are not generational players. AM, CMD, maybe Laine, those guys will be looking at 10m plus post-entry level contracts.
Last edited by moahunter; 17-05-2017 at 04:40 PM.
Drai and the oilers will probably agree quickly on an amount (under 8mil), but they will disagree on term. Oilers will want a long term and leon will probably only want 3 or 4 yrs.
This is an interview in German with Draisaitl's father. The interviewer hypothesizes how much money he'll sign for (six years for 36 million), and Draisaitl's father's response (my translation) is: "Slow down. He doesn't have anything yet. His contract is up. Both sides want to talk. Leon has a clear position and wants to stay. He loves Edmonton. The team has potential and a future. He's got things under control, his agent will take care of everything." Just FYI.
Last edited by Idealistic Pragmatist; 17-05-2017 at 05:56 PM.
“It’s so beautiful. What sort of bird is that?”
Offer sheets are as a rule ALWAYS much more than the player would be otherwise paid. Theres plenty of reasons clubs would want to target the Oilers, and Draisaitl, particularly, with an offer sheet. If that does occur, guess what, I will be right. If it doesn't and the Oilers can do a friendly deal at 7M per than you are right. But if I'm a GM in the WC, and specifically in the division I WANT to make life difficult for the upstart Oilers and hamper them from the start. Most clubs already realize a tagteam of Connor and Leon on the same club is lethal.You said a minute ago that Gaudreau sucked - yet now you are comparing him to CMD? I think you just don't understand how NHL contracts work. NHL stars getting their first big pay day as RFA's don't get as much as when they are free agents. If you look at Malkin, who you keep comparing Drai too, he was getting 8.4m a year at the end of his old contract, but that was after 100 point years (he was putting up numbers close to CMD when he was at Draisaitls experience). Not much more, about 1.5 to 2m, than what Hall, or Gaudreau, or Monahan, or Draisaitil will make. When he got extended, then he got 10m (because he has earned his dues / can go to free agency and get that money), and that's what you will see with Seguin and all those players, will get close too then (I'm guessing around 8m as unlike Malkin, they will never be borderline generational). Draisaitl will get a 6 to 7m contract, and that's in keeping with other young star players in the NHL, coming off their entry deal and going onto a long term (as opposed to a bridge), who are not generational players. AM, CMD, maybe Laine, those guys will be looking at 10m plus post-entry level contracts.
As far as Malkin, and I see that as the closest comparison, Cap has inflated since that deal, players are paid more generally now as cap has gone up through the years. More and more what we see as well is that Marquee players get paid very well and Draisaitl is certainly that. On this team theres McDavid, Drai, Talbot. Those are the supreme players.
I responded to the Monahan thing due to you building a false argument that Leon is Connor dependent. I illustrated that Leon actually plays a much smaller amount with the associated player. But more importantly Drais production is fine without McDavid, on his own line, and some of the best performances he has had, including in the playoffs have been without McDavid. You were the one suggesting that Drai's success is McDavid dependent. You have no substantiation in which to make that claim.
"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"
Can't recall where I heard this but for McDavid, someone mentioned 8 years for $97M. If that's not big money I don't know what is. I just hope this team doesn't collapse like 2006.
Mom said I should not talk to cretins!
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