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Thread: Russian interference in US politics - starts with James Comey Firing

  1. #2201

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    My wife leaves the room when Sarah Sanders speaks...










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  2. #2202

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    Michael Wolff's 'Fire and Fury' book leaves breadcrumbs for Robert Mueller
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...104-story.html
    Michael Wolff's new book, "Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House," should set off alarm bells for President Donald Trump's legal team. Two tidbits in particular point to areas of inquiry for special counsel Robert S. Mueller III.

    Most important of Wolff's reports is Trump's drafting while on Air Force One of the statement concerning his son's June 2016 meeting with Russian officials. The Post reported last summer:


    "Flying home from Germany on July 8 aboard Air Force One, Trump personally dictated a statement in which Trump Jr. said that he and the Russian lawyer had 'primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children' when they met in June 2016, according to multiple people with knowledge of the deliberations. The statement, issued to the New York Times as it prepared an article, emphasized that the subject of the meeting was 'not a campaign issue at the time.'


    "The claims were later shown to be misleading.


    "Over the next three days, multiple accounts of the meeting were provided to the news media as public pressure mounted, with Trump Jr. ultimately acknowledging that he had accepted the meeting after receiving an email promising damaging information about Hillary Clinton as part of a Russian government effort to help his father's campaign."


    This is damning both because it involves an effort arguably to cover up the real purpose of the meeting and, more important, because Trump was personally involved. This would be one powerful element in an obstruction-of-justice charge, if one is forthcoming, and certainly in considering impeachment, which would look beyond the four-corners of criminal statutes to see if Trump abused his office (crafting a misleading statement from the White House) for nefarious purposes (concealing a possibly incriminating meeting).

    We already know Mueller's team has interviewed White House Communications Director Hope Hicks, who was reportedly present during the back-and-forth discussions regarding the statement. He now may want to talk with former Trump legal spokesman Mark Corallo. Axios reports on the following excerpt from Wolff's book: "Mark Corallo [former spokesman for Trump's personal legal team] ... privately confiding [to Wolff] that he believed the meeting on Air Force One represented a likely obstruction of justice — quit."


    Corallo is no crank. Matthew Miller, former Justice Department spokesman under President Barack Obama, says, "I don't know him personally, but he has a reputation as a solid, honest guy."


    As a preliminary matter, it is critical to determine what precisely Corallo saw, what he directly observed and what gave him concern. If he has not already done so, Corallo will need to be interviewed. "Any obstruction case always involves the totality of all of the factual circumstances at play, so it's always a mistake to read too much into any one reported fact," Lawfare blog's Ben Wittes tells me. "These cases are always about all of the facts in interaction with one another. That said, it certainly is interesting that one of the participants in that meeting reportedly believed it at the time to be a potential obstruction."


    Miller agrees that Corallo may be a key witness. "I think it's clear that Mueller will be reaching out to talk to Corallo soon, if he hasn't already, to find out what led him to draw that conclusion," Miller says. "Corallo's opinion isn't so much relevant as the underlying facts leading him to believe the president committed obstruction are." He adds, "Corollo was hired by Trump's legal team and they will likely try to claim his interactions are covered by attorney-client privilege, but we have already seen Mueller obtain testimony from one spokesperson in this case, when he subpoenaed [Paul] Manafort's spokesman to the grand jury." Moreover, by talking openly about the drafting sessions and including non-lawyers, there's a good chance any privilege was waived.


    The second important tidbit Wolff reported involves Steve Bannon's opinion that "the chance that Don Jr. did not walk these jumos [Russian officials] up to his father's office on the twenty-sixth floor is zero." No evidence so far has come to light to suggest that is true. Trump has denied meeting these people or knowing anything about the meeting. Bannon is engaging in pure speculation but can be checked in multiple ways. He can be asked why he thinks this occurred. Not only the president's son but also anyone in the vicinity of Trump's office would need to be queried. At some point, the special counsel may get the chance to question Trump directly.


    There is nothing illegal about Trump meeting with Russians, no matter how inappropriate or unwise it may have been. (As Bannon correctly points out, "Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad (expletive), and I happen to think it's all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately.") However, given the multiple denials from the Trump camp, lying about or concealing this incident again becomes one more unfortunate fact for Trump.


    Just like the dossier, the book itself is not evidence. What it does do, however, is provide leads for Mueller, if he hasn't already found them for himself. It also puts pressure on Senate Intelligence Committee investigators to get Corallo and others in to testify under oath. Frankly, these explosive items may explain why Trump wigged out over the past few days.


    Washington Post
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  3. #2203

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    These guys are going to create a lawyer shortage

    Paul Manafort sues Robert Mueller in effort to foil Trump-Russia inquiry | US news | The Guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-court-lawsuit

  4. #2204

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    Especially when they start charging Trumps lawyers. You just know that they're guilty of something. You can't be that involved with Donald Trump and not pick up some of his dirt.

  5. #2205

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    Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan call on Sessions to resign
    “2 GOP lawmakers are calling on Sessions to resign — and it looks like a ploy to kill the Russia probe”

    http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-...mueller-2018-1

  6. #2206

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    These guys are going to create a lawyer shortage

    Paul Manafort sues Robert Mueller in effort to foil Trump-Russia inquiry | US news | The Guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-court-lawsuit
    Mueller has his orders which includes "any" matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation...

    What part of "any" does Paul Manafort not understand? The 'a' part, the 'n' part or the 'y' part?
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  7. #2207

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    Of course:


    Republican senators want ex-British spy behind Trump dossier to be investigated | US news | The Guardian

    “The letter, the first criminal referral from Congress since it started investigations into Russian interference in the 2016 elections, ...”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...lindsey-graham

  8. #2208

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    And Mueller has much, much more than has been released publicly.

    Ex-Watergate prosecutor: There’s enough public evidence of Trump obstruction that I could get a conviction right now

    “What evidence do you have that you have seen that makes you confident you could put together an obstruction case?” Witt asked.


    “I think that Mueller probably has much more evidence than I do, I’m only looking at what is publicly available. I can take a number of pieces and say that a reasonable jury would see those pieces as fitting together and spelling out obstruction,” Wine-Banks explained.


    “So you have things like the firing of Comey, but you also have supporting that the letter that he drafted that said he was firing Comey because of the Russia investigation,” Wine-Banks reminded. “He said that to Lester Holt on NBC, saying that he was firing him because of that. He told the Russians that he was getting rid of Comey because of the Russia investigation.”


    “He also pardoned Joe Arpaio and sent a clear message to all witnesses against him that they didn’t have to cooperate with the FBI or with Mueller, that he would pardon them even if they were held in contempt of court or congress for not answering the questions or for perjury even,” Wine-Banks continued.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/ex-...ion-right-now/

  9. #2209

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    Completely ignoring the fact that four members of his team have been arrested and two have already pleaded guilty to felonies.

    And what the heck does "In theory, everybody tells me" even mean? Are people telling him this? Then it's not in theory.

    But he's a genius. We know because he keeps telling us so it must be true.


    "Trump said “Just so you understand, there’s been no collusion. There’s been no collusion. There’s been no crime. And in theory, everybody tells me I’m not under investigation. Maybe Hillary is, I don’t know, but I’m not. But there’s been no collusion. There’s been no crime. We’ve been very open. We could have done it two ways. We could have been very closed, and it would have taken years. But you know, sort of like, when you’ve done nothing wrong, let’s be open and get it over with.” "

    http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/06/politi...vid/index.html


    Last edited by kkozoriz; 06-01-2018 at 09:57 PM.

  10. #2210

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    Because that's exactly how interviews work in cases like this. The person under investigation simply signs a paper saying "I didn't do it" and that's that.


    Donald Trump lawyers hoping to avoid Mueller interview with signed document claiming innocence: report

    One source said the discussions began shortly after former campaign manager Paul Manafort was indicted in late October for money laundering.


    Trump’s lawyers met with the special counsel’s office in late December, but they either declined to respond or declined comment about the meeting and what topics they discussed.


    A second source told NBC New that the president’s lawyers are considering whether Trump could avoid the interview by signing an affidavit affirming his innocence and denying any collusion with Russia during his election campaign.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/don...ocence-report/

  11. #2211

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    ^ it must be true, because not only is there one, but TWO (!) "anonymous sources" saying this is true!

  12. #2212
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    From BBC's lead story: http://www.bbc.com/news
    ------------------------------------

    "According to The Post, Mr Mueller first raised the possibility of interviewing the president in a meeting with his lawyers, John Dowd and Jay Sekulow, in late December."This is moving faster than anyone really realises," the newspaper quotes a person within the president's circle, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
    Mr Trump's lawyers are reluctant to allow him to sit down for open-ended questioning and are discussing whether to allow him to provide written answers to some of the questions, The Washington Post and NBC News report."
    -----------------------------------------

    Can't imagine why.
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  13. #2213

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    ^ it must be true, because not only is there one, but TWO (!) "anonymous sources" saying this is true!
    Unless the two sources are the same source talking to two different organizations.

  14. #2214

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    Let's see what the people behind the Steele dossier told the U.S. Senate, shall we?

    Senate Democrats Just Released the Full Fusion GPS Testimony
    Sen. Feinstein slammed the “innuendo and misinformation” surrounding the transcript.

    Senate Judiciary Committee ranking member Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) on Tuesday released the full transcript of the Senate testimony of Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson, whose political research firm was behind the Steele dossier.


    “After speaking with majority and minority committee staff for 10 hours, Glenn Simpson requested the transcript of his interview be released publicly. The American people deserve the opportunity to see what he said and judge for themselves,” Feinstein said in a statement. “The innuendo and misinformation circulating about the transcript are part of a deeply troubling effort to undermine the investigation into potential collusion and obstruction of justice. The only way to set the record straight is to make the transcript public.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...gps-testimony/


  15. #2215

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    Hmmm, I wonder if this means that Trump's own organization is "fake news"?

    Internal Trump campaign source tipped off FBI about Russia collusion, according to Senate testimony


    In the testimony, Simpson said the Steele dossier was taken seriously by the FBI because it corroborated reports the bureau had received from other sources.


    Steele met with an FBI official in Rome to discuss his findings and reported back on their exchange, Simpson told the committee.


    “Essentially what he told me was they had other intelligence about this matter from an internal Trump campaign source,” Simpson said.


    “My understanding was that they believed Chris at this point – that they believed Chris’s (Steele’s) information might be credible because they had other intelligence that indicated the same thing and one of those pieces of intelligence was a human source from inside the Trump organization,” Simpson said.

    http://https://www.rawstory.com/2018...ate-testimony/

  16. #2216

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    If Comey's FBI had a mole in Trump's campaign, that confirms he was being spied on.

  17. #2217
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If Comey's FBI had a mole in Trump's campaign, that confirms he was being spied on.
    He said he had his "wired tapped", quite specifically. Not that he was being "spied on".

  18. #2218

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    And it doesn't say that the FBI planted someone in his origination. Rather, that someone in the organization came to the FBI with information. Hardly a mole.

  19. #2219
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If Comey's FBI had a mole in Trump's campaign, that confirms he was being spied on.
    A mole doesn't have to mean the FBI planted a spy (a paid FBI agent), it could mean that someone who worked for the Trump campaign saw things they didn't like and reported them to the FBI. Surely you can't think EVERYONE in the campaign was willing to turn a blind eye to what was (reportedly) going on.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  20. #2220

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Let's see what the people behind the Steele dossier told the U.S. Senate, shall we?

    Senate Democrats Just Released the Full Fusion GPS Testimony
    Sen. Feinstein slammed the “innuendo and misinformation” surrounding the transcript.

    Senate Judiciary Committee ranking member Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) on Tuesday released the full transcript of the Senate testimony of Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson, whose political research firm was behind the Steele dossier.


    “After speaking with majority and minority committee staff for 10 hours, Glenn Simpson requested the transcript of his interview be released publicly. The American people deserve the opportunity to see what he said and judge for themselves,” Feinstein said in a statement. “The innuendo and misinformation circulating about the transcript are part of a deeply troubling effort to undermine the investigation into potential collusion and obstruction of justice. The only way to set the record straight is to make the transcript public.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...gps-testimony/


    "Looks like Fusion GPS had a professional relationship at one point with N. Veselnitskaya, the Kremlin cutout who lobbied Kusher, Manafort, and DJT Jr. to ditch the Magnitsky Act in June 2016. "
    https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/sta...92586855317505



    "GPS founder met with her twice on the very day she went to Trump Tower for that meeting, at which she presented a memo prepared by GPS"
    https://twitter.com/guypbenson/statu...94369702952960


    In other words, this company hired by Hillary's campaign were the ones colluding with Russians to try and make it look like it was Trump.



    Not only that, but Obama's Department of Justice let the Russian lawyer enter the USA without a visa under extraordinary circumstances right before that meeting.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...met-with-trump


    None of this was Trump's doing. And there is no way this is all coincidence.
    Last edited by MrOilers; 09-01-2018 at 04:26 PM.

  21. #2221

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If Comey's FBI had a mole in Trump's campaign, that confirms he was being spied on.
    You do understand that a mole is a planted spy. The FBI could have an informant which is very different than a mole.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 09-01-2018 at 05:56 PM.
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  22. #2222

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    I was reading mrAltReich's mole post and replying to it before reading the other two poster's explanation of a mole just shows that 3 poster's independently see thru his misunderstanding.

    Other intelligence may not mean wire tapping but copies of emails, letters, leaked documents, etc.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 09-01-2018 at 05:58 PM.
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  23. #2223
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Let's see what the people behind the Steele dossier told the U.S. Senate, shall we?

    Senate Democrats Just Released the Full Fusion GPS Testimony
    Sen. Feinstein slammed the “innuendo and misinformation” surrounding the transcript.

    Senate Judiciary Committee ranking member Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) on Tuesday released the full transcript of the Senate testimony of Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson, whose political research firm was behind the Steele dossier.


    “After speaking with majority and minority committee staff for 10 hours, Glenn Simpson requested the transcript of his interview be released publicly. The American people deserve the opportunity to see what he said and judge for themselves,” Feinstein said in a statement. “The innuendo and misinformation circulating about the transcript are part of a deeply troubling effort to undermine the investigation into potential collusion and obstruction of justice. The only way to set the record straight is to make the transcript public.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...gps-testimony/


    "Looks like Fusion GPS had a professional relationship at one point with N. Veselnitskaya, the Kremlin cutout who lobbied Kusher, Manafort, and DJT Jr. to ditch the Magnitsky Act in June 2016. "
    https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/sta...92586855317505



    "GPS founder met with her twice on the very day she went to Trump Tower for that meeting, at which she presented a memo prepared by GPS"
    https://twitter.com/guypbenson/statu...94369702952960


    In other words, this company hired by Hillary's campaign were the ones colluding with Russians to try and make it look like it was Trump.



    Not only that, but Obama's Department of Justice let the Russian lawyer enter the USA without a visa under extraordinary circumstances right before that meeting.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...met-with-trump


    None of this was Trump's doing. And there is no way this is all coincidence.
    I know you know this, but it was REPUBLICANS that first hired Fusion GPS. Was it the Democrats that were involved in the Moscow Trump Tower? Was it the Democrats that had Trumps team meeting with other Russians multiple times? Was it the Democrats that forced Kurshner to forget listings things on his disclosure forms?
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  24. #2224

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Let's see what the people behind the Steele dossier told the U.S. Senate, shall we?

    Senate Democrats Just Released the Full Fusion GPS Testimony
    Sen. Feinstein slammed the “innuendo and misinformation” surrounding the transcript.

    Senate Judiciary Committee ranking member Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) on Tuesday released the full transcript of the Senate testimony of Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson, whose political research firm was behind the Steele dossier.


    “After speaking with majority and minority committee staff for 10 hours, Glenn Simpson requested the transcript of his interview be released publicly. The American people deserve the opportunity to see what he said and judge for themselves,” Feinstein said in a statement. “The innuendo and misinformation circulating about the transcript are part of a deeply troubling effort to undermine the investigation into potential collusion and obstruction of justice. The only way to set the record straight is to make the transcript public.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...gps-testimony/


    "Looks like Fusion GPS had a professional relationship at one point with N. Veselnitskaya, the Kremlin cutout who lobbied Kusher, Manafort, and DJT Jr. to ditch the Magnitsky Act in June 2016. "
    https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/sta...92586855317505



    "GPS founder met with her twice on the very day she went to Trump Tower for that meeting, at which she presented a memo prepared by GPS"
    https://twitter.com/guypbenson/statu...94369702952960


    In other words, this company hired by Hillary's campaign were the ones colluding with Russians to try and make it look like it was Trump.



    Not only that, but Obama's Department of Justice let the Russian lawyer enter the USA without a visa under extraordinary circumstances right before that meeting.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...met-with-trump


    None of this was Trump's doing. And there is no way this is all coincidence.
    I know you know this, but it was REPUBLICANS that first hired Fusion GPS. Was it the Democrats that were involved in the Moscow Trump Tower? Was it the Democrats that had Trumps team meeting with other Russians multiple times? Was it the Democrats that forced Kurshner to forget listings things on his disclosure forms?
    The time line matters as does the question of who initiated which contracts first.


    As for the third link, read it all. Quite interesting.
    Last edited by KC; 09-01-2018 at 06:53 PM.

  25. #2225

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    Fusion GPS lawyer: Someone has already been killed over publication of Trump dossier
    http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...er-publication
    A lawyer for Glenn Simpson, the co-founder of Fusion GPS, told congressional investigators that “somebody’s already been killed” as a result of the publication of the controversial dossier tying President Trump to Russia.

    In closed-door testimony with the Senate Judiciary Committee last year, Simpson was asked by investigators if Fusion GPS took steps to “assess the credibility” of sources used by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, who compiled the dossier.


    “Yes, but I’m not going to get into sourcing information,” Simpson replied.
    Simpson then declined to answer a follow-up question. When asked why he was declining to answer, his attorney, Joshua Levy, said Simpson “wants to be very careful to protect his sources.”
    “Somebody’s already been killed as a result of the publication of this dossier, and no harm should come to anybody related to this honest work,” Levy added.


    Simpson had previously declined to answer another question posed by the committee’s investigators, citing “security.”


    Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) posted the entire transcript of Simpson’s testimony on Tuesday after a feud erupted between Fusion GPS and Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa).


    Steele’s dossier has come under intense scrutiny, with Republicans questioning whether the document spurred the FBI’s investigation into Trump’s presidential campaign.
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  26. #2226

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    I know you know this, but it was REPUBLICANS that first hired Fusion GPS.
    How come neither Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, nor any other Republican candidates have accused Trump of Russian collusion?

    It's because it's a Democrat/Hillary/Obama fabrication. The whole thing.

  27. #2227

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    You wish it was. Stellar amounts of evidence you have posted proving it's a fabrication. Meanwhile, republican Mueller continues to investigate.

  28. #2228

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    I actually DON'T wish it was, but that's what it looks like.

    I am aware that these are all allegations, but the prospect of a sitting President actively exploiting and weaponizing the powers of the FBI, NSA, Department of Justice, and others, to spy on (or sabotage) an opposing party's lead presidential candidate during an election is infinitely more terrifying than the prospect of a lone candidate colluding with a single foreign government to help convince people to elect him.

  29. #2229

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    what are you trying to imply?

  30. #2230

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    More importantly, is MrAltReich implying that Trump is actively exploiting and weaponizing the powers of the FBI, NSA, Department of Justice, and using his vindictive actions to revenge on his political opponents?
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  31. #2231

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    He's rambling about a "Deep State" conspiracy theory even though no evidence exists while simultaneously using the same conspiracy to discredit the same law enforcement & national security apparatus that's spent a year investigating & uncovering evidence of an actual conspiracy.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  32. #2232

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    Trump was being spied on while Obama was president. The "Russian collusion" story was used as an excuse to start doing it.

    It also explains why, during the transition, by pure coincidence I am sure, that all the leaks to the Washington Post stopped the day Trump and his team abruptly moved his meetings from Trump Tower to Mar-A-Lago (where they had no surveillance on Trump's campaign).

  33. #2233

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    Can you provide a source? Otherwise, I'd leaning towards you making things up, or purporting things differently than they are.

  34. #2234

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    You ignore every source I post (including the sources I posted yesterday). Please comment on those.

  35. #2235

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    ok, so you're making things up. Great!

    You've ignored just about everything that was posted to you in this thread, or dismissed it without reason. Please provide a source to back up your false allegations.

  36. #2236

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Trump was being spied on while Obama was president.
    http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump...heories-763472

    On March 2, 2017, a conservative radio host outlined what he believed was a plot by the Obama administration to sabotage Trump’s campaign by wiretapping Trump Tower. A day later, Breitbart reiterated the claim. On March 4, Trump tweeted about the story, saying of the fabricated scandal, “This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!”
    Later in the month a YouTube account called “The Leaping Frog” made a video saying Obama official Evelyn Farkas admitted his administration spied on Trump. The video, which misrepresented what Farkas had said, was picked up by Fox & Friends and later cited by then-press secretary Sean Spicer.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  37. #2237

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    ok, so you're making things up. Great!
    He's positively presidential in his ability to misrepresent, selectively edit, ignore or otherwise downplay anything that would cause any shift in his cognitive dissonance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    You've ignored just about everything that was posted to you in this thread, or dismissed it without reason. Please provide a source to back up your false allegations.
    He's just going to cite people & sites who're as guilty of misrepresenting, selectively editing, willfully ignoring or otherwise downplaying anything that conflicts with their pre-determined narrative as he himself is.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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  39. #2239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    ok, so you're making things up.

    No. For a start you should look at the links I posted yesterday in this very thread (it's only a few posts up - I promise it won't take much energy for you to do that)


    You've ignored just about everything that was posted to you in this thread, or dismissed it without reason.
    I haven't ignored a thing. Literally everything relating to Russia-Trump collusion has been based on conjecture, and almost all of it has come from people in, or near, Clinton's pocket.

    Nobody has found anything beyond that because there's simply nothing conclusive out there. And no, the often-used line that "it is still being investigated" does not mean it actually happened.

  40. #2240

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    Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
    Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?
    Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"
    Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?
    Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly, smartass!
    Every time MrOilers starts rambling about his conspiracy theories I remember this & laugh. Partially at the movie, mostly at MrO.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  41. #2241

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    This was the very first item I read about possible Russian interference with the US election (which is what Mueller is investigating)

    https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/...ector-national

    The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.
    Nothing in here about Trump.

    Not only that, but they hedge every single claim.

    "is confident"

    "alleged"

    "could have"

    "We believe"



    As I said, it's still, a year-and-a-half later, and it is still all conjecture with no proof.

    And in fact, as more details emerge, it's starting to look like "the Russians did it" is a hoax and an excuse manufactured by the Democrats for getting so embarrassed for their incompetence at computer security, stopping internal leaks, and losing the Presidential election to someone they call the "least qualified" candidate.

  42. #2242

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    https://www.vox.com/2018/1/10/168736...weet-feinstein

    The key takeaway is that the FBI was already investigating potential links between Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russian government before they got the Steele dossier. The hearing lasted for hours, and the transcript is extremely long and fairly tedious. But Simpson does clearly state that when Steele spoke to the FBI about his findings, the bureau “believed Chris’s information might be credible because they had other intelligence that indicated the same thing, and one of those pieces of intelligence was a human source from inside the Trump organization.”
    And the dossier plays a key role in this conspiracy theory.Because conservatives are “just asking questions” about the FBI and Steele, they tend not to explicitly state what they think happened. But in broad strokes, the theory is something like this:



    • Trump’s political enemies paid Fusion GPS to write a dossier full of debunked claims about his connections to Russia.
    • “Deep state” anti-Trump elements in the FBI used this false opposition research document to obtain a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court warrant targeting Michael Flynn.
    • The Flynn surveillance, which never should have been allowed because it was based on the phony dossier, was used to catch him in a lie about a meeting with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak that was completely innocuous.
    • This got Flynn fired and, by making meetings with Kislyak into a hot-button issue, also forced Sessions into recusing himself, which in turn gave Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein (whom Trump has decided is “a Democrat,” though it’s not clear why) the opportunity to appoint Robert Mueller as special counsel.
    • Mueller, in turn, is buddies with former FBI Director James Comey, who is bitter about having been fired by Trump (Comey under this theory is a bad guy because he went too easy on Hillary Clinton over the email server, and we’re not supposed to pay attention to the fact that Trump’s stated reason for firing him was that he was too hard on Clinton) and is therefore leading an anti-Trump witch hunt.


    There are, of course, other penumbras and emanations around the conservative account of the Steele dossier. Former Rep. Jason Chaffetz was on Fox recently, for example, arguing that it’s against the law to hire a foreign national to do work for a campaign (this is not true) and therefore the existence of the dossier is just another example of Crooked Hillary’s lawbreaking.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  43. #2243

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    https://www.vox.com/2018/1/10/168736...weet-feinstein

    The key takeaway is that the FBI was already investigating potential links between Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russian government before they got the Steele dossier.

    So what?

    Trump was already being accused for it by his high-profile opponents before anyone else saw that dossier too.

  44. #2244

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    From the same Vox article I linked.

    Papadopoulos was the start of the investigation

    A New York Times report earlier this month indicated that the investigation began not with Steele’s dossier but with Papadopoulos’s drunken conversation with Downer, Australia’s ambassador to the UK and a former Australian foreign minister.

    Simpson’s testimony appears to independently corroborate what the New York Times already reported — the FBI listened to Steele because they already had an investigation into this question underway, an investigation that was launched because Papadopoulos’s conversation with Downer was shared with other Australian officials, who ultimately passed word of it to their American counterparts once the hacking of Democratic email accounts became a big deal.

    As best as we can tell, this, rather than Steele’s memo, was the start of the investigation.
    I'm sure it was a Democrat-deep-state operative who mickey'ed Papadopolous while out with the Australians, causing him to spill the beans! Damn those cunning leftist puppetmasters & their hijinks!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  45. #2245

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    Trump claimed he had evidence that Obama wiretapped him.

    Trump never followed that up with proof.

    Now Mr.AltReich claims it is a fact.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  46. #2246

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    From the same Vox article I linked.

    Papadopoulos was the start of the investigation
    Once again, so what? That they started an investigation based on unverified third-hand information?

    And Papadopoulos worked for the Democrats before, and was never part of Trump's inner circle (though he was in his campaign for some time).

  47. #2247

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    You take the dementia-addled rantings on Twitter of a known huckster & scheming fraudster as the gospel truth, while simultaneously lumping everyone (partisan or otherwise) who's opposed to him or otherwise involved into some deep state shadow government conspiracy theory so I'm at a loss of how to explain this to you in a way that you'll understand & acknowledge.

    I literally don't think there's a way to get you to acknowledge the facts of the case, you're too far gone & more concerned with finding facts that suit your pre-defined narrative (kinda like the Republicans in the Senate & Congress) versus determining what the narrative truly is based on the evidence. Anything that doesn't align is subjected to the 10 Ds of opposition tactics & then cast aside.

    Arguing/debating you regarding Trump is like debating Ken Ham on evolution.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  48. #2248

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    ^^Papa George was in the Russia meeting.

    Every time another pin falls in the WH, they claim that they never knew so snd so, he was not a paid employee or he was the coffee boy.

    The list of WH unknown so and so's now include Paul Manafort, Steve Bannon and Michael Wolff and about a dozen more.

    Deny
    Defend...

    and the rest of the list
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  49. #2249

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Trump claimed he had evidence that Obama wiretapped him.

    Trump never followed that up with proof.

    Now Mr.AltReich claims it is a fact.
    He also claimed to have proof that Obama's birth certificate was a forgery. Again, nothing.

    An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...433794?lang=en

  50. #2250

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    who would doubt a very stable genius?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  51. #2251

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    You take the dementia-addled rantings on Twitter of a known huckster & scheming fraudster as the gospel truth

    I consider all angles, but I am far more willing to believe what was said (by a primary source) at the Fusion GPS testimony, rather than what anti-Trump journalists write in op-eds citing "anonymous sources".

    How come nobody else is questioning why the founder of Fusion GPS (who was used by Hillary's campaign to do opposition research) met with that Russian lawyer twice on the same day she went to Trump Tower for the meeting with Don Jr? And how come nobody else is questioning why that Russian woman was given special permission by Obama's DOJ to enter the USA without a visa in the first place?

    Neither of those truths are conjecture, nor are they "theories". Yet anti-Trump people don't ask questions about them, instead choosing to completely ignore those inconveniences in favor of their own Trump-Russia conspiracy theory.

  52. #2252

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    who would doubt a very stable genius?
    Ha ha.

    I love how Trump has just trolled every opponent of his into calling him a genius.

    He became a billionaire by manipulating suckers into doing what he wants his whole life. Now he's doing it as President of the USA.

  53. #2253

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    he became a billionaire by inheritance.

  54. #2254

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    ^Not true, he didn't inherit a billion. His four siblings got the same inheritance, and haven't become billionaires.

  55. #2255

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    And let's remember the source for Trump's net worth is....Trump.

    He's never substantiated his actual worth & all the tacky gold BS paints him as a bloviator, not a savvy businessman.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  56. #2256

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Not true, he didn't inherit a billion. His four siblings got the same inheritance, and haven't become billionaires.

    I don't think any of us can even fathom how difficult it is to become a billionaire, even if given $10 million to start with.

    Turning a million dollars into a billion? That would be like turning $1000 into a million.

  57. #2257

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    Trump being a billionaire is just conjecture at this point, and no real facts on the matter. Nothing he says can be trusted.

  58. #2258

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Not true, he didn't inherit a billion. His four siblings got the same inheritance, and haven't become billionaires.
    And he'd be richer if he'd just invested in index funds and spent all his time golfing.

    Donald Trump Would Be Richer If He'd Have Invested in Index Funds


    Trump’s net worth has grown about 300% to an estimated $4 billion since 1987, according to a report by the Associated Press. But the real estate mogul would have made even more money if he had just invested in index funds. The AP says that, if Trump had invested in an index fund in 1988, his net worth would be as much as $13 billion.


    The S&P 500 has grown 1,336% since 1988.


    Other billionaires’ net worths have beaten the stock market’s growth in that time. Bill Gates, for example, saw his grow increase 7,173% since 1988 to $80 billion. Warren Buffet’s wealth grew 2,612% in the same time period, to $67.8 billion.

    http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/
    But Trump is a Stable Genius. Just ask him.

  59. #2259
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    You take the dementia-addled rantings on Twitter of a known huckster & scheming fraudster as the gospel truth

    I consider all angles...
    I call BS on that. You have never posted anything here that would lead anyone to believe you've ever considered that Trump is guilty of working with the Russians. You take Trump at his word, despite evidence that Trump lies often, and about pretty much anything. Trump lies when he doesn't even have to lie.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  60. #2260

  61. #2261

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    You take the dementia-addled rantings on Twitter of a known huckster & scheming fraudster as the gospel truth

    I consider all angles...
    I call BS on that. You have never posted anything here that would lead anyone to believe you've ever considered that Trump is guilty of working with the Russians.
    I considered it for a minute, but the fact that we don't know if the emails that were allegedly "hacked" were actually leaked, and also don't know that the alleged hack (if it was a hack) actually came from Russia. Also, I trust Hillary Clinton less than most other politicians, so there's that as well.

    Likewise, not a single anti-Trump poster here has posted anything suggesting that there may have been some misuse of government and media resources to accuse Trump of colluding with Russia in order to discredit him.

  62. #2262

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    Expect Donald to even more unhinged as further details emerge.

    THREAD ON FUSION GPS. I spent the afternoon reading the transcript that Senator Feinstein released today. Here are the salient points, with citations. I am a lawyer and CEO. I was a securities fraud and human rights litigator in DC/NY for over 15 years. Read on for takeaways.

    34/ And there is no question in the minds of Simpson or Steele that what they are dealing with is criminal espionage, a "crime in progress" by the Russians against the DNC and others. (Tr. 173)


    35/ And then Simpson dropped a bomb: Steele went to Rome, gets debriefed by the FBI, and learns in the debriefing that the FBI, in September 2016, has a "voluntary" source inside the Trump campaign. (Tr. 175-176). READ THAT AGAIN.


    36/ NOTE: that means this is not Papadopoulos. He was flipped when he lied to the FBI. This was also someone who was NOT also a source for Steele.


    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/9...082562048.html

  63. #2263

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    You take the dementia-addled rantings on Twitter of a known huckster & scheming fraudster as the gospel truth

    I consider all angles...
    I call BS on that. You have never posted anything here that would lead anyone to believe you've ever considered that Trump is guilty of working with the Russians.
    I considered it for a minute, but the fact that we don't know if the emails that were allegedly "hacked" were actually leaked, and also don't know that the alleged hack (if it was a hack) actually came from Russia. Also, I trust Hillary Clinton less than most other politicians, so there's that as well.

    Likewise, not a single anti-Trump poster here has posted anything suggesting that there may have been some misuse of government and media resources to accuse Trump of colluding with Russia in order to discredit him.
    Moreover what’s fascinating in this whole thing is that the missing emails were deleted by Clinton’s lawyers and there may have been absolutely nothing in them affecting national security. This whole drama may be about nothing at all.


    As for Trump the question of collusion is still an open issue. It could have occurred below him however it’s hard to believe that his campaign people would have been smart enough to keep him out of the loop. They all seem like bumbling opportunistic fools.

    There’s also the possibility that Russia long ago set Trump on a course to run for office. That they turned him into what I believe the intelligence community calls “an asset”.
    Last edited by KC; 10-01-2018 at 01:57 PM.

  64. #2264

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Expect Donald to even more unhinged as further details emerge.

    THREAD ON FUSION GPS. I spent the afternoon reading the transcript that Senator Feinstein released today. Here are the salient points, with citations. I am a lawyer and CEO. I was a securities fraud and human rights litigator in DC/NY for over 15 years. Read on for takeaways.

    34/ And there is no question in the minds of Simpson or Steele that what they are dealing with is criminal espionage, a "crime in progress" by the Russians against the DNC and others. (Tr. 173)


    35/ And then Simpson dropped a bomb: Steele went to Rome, gets debriefed by the FBI, and learns in the debriefing that the FBI, in September 2016, has a "voluntary" source inside the Trump campaign. (Tr. 175-176). READ THAT AGAIN.


    36/ NOTE: that means this is not Papadopoulos. He was flipped when he lied to the FBI. This was also someone who was NOT also a source for Steele.


    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/9...082562048.html

    So now the entire thing hinges on what a spy says that someone in the FBI told him?

  65. #2265

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    You take a known inveterate liar with suspected dementia at his word but career intelligence officers? VERY SUSPECT!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  66. #2266

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    Oh oh!

    Just ruining Mr.AltReich's day


    Mueller adds veteran cyber prosecutor to special-counsel team
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.c020d83a1966

    The Russian Investigation Train is coming down the White House tracks at 100mph..
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  67. #2267
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    You take the dementia-addled rantings on Twitter of a known huckster & scheming fraudster as the gospel truth

    I consider all angles...
    I call BS on that. You have never posted anything here that would lead anyone to believe you've ever considered that Trump is guilty of working with the Russians.
    I considered it for a minute, but the fact that we don't know if the emails that were allegedly "hacked" were actually leaked, and also don't know that the alleged hack (if it was a hack) actually came from Russia. Also, I trust Hillary Clinton less than most other politicians, so there's that as well.

    Likewise, not a single anti-Trump poster here has posted anything suggesting that there may have been some misuse of government and media resources to accuse Trump of colluding with Russia in order to discredit him.
    I think you're treating everything as separate, unconnected events, and completely ignoring the larger picture. Why would Don Jr claim years before Trump announced his (second) presidency run that they had lots of Russian investors, and that lots of money came from Russia? Look at everything that happened with Trump Tower, and the timelines there. Look at the Russian hacker who claimed he was working with the FSB to get the emails. Why does Trump have a long-running relationship with a guy (Salter) who is connected in Russia? Those are just many of the things that you seem to pass off as "whatever."

    How can you look at the many repeated relationships/meetings with Russians between Trump and his team and think there's absolutely nothing there?

    The thing you don't seem to understand is that many people here, and elsewhere, want the investigation to continue because we want the truth, we just happen to think that the truth is pointing towards Trump being guilty. The Republicans don't seem interested in the truth, they want to see the investigation ended. If Robert Mueller concludes that Trump did absolutely nothing wrong, I'll certainly accept that because I believe that Mueller's job is to investigate leads and bring charges when he finds laws were broken.

    Look at how the Democrats and Republicans treat the sexual harassment issues presented to them; the Democrats pressured Franken to resign while the Republicans (Trump included) supported Moore.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  68. #2268

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    I think you're treating everything as separate, unconnected events, and completely ignoring the larger picture. Why would Don Jr claim years before Trump announced his (second) presidency run that they had lots of Russian investors, and that lots of money came from Russia? Look at everything that happened with Trump Tower, and the timelines there. Look at the Russian hacker who claimed he was working with the FSB to get the emails. Why does Trump have a long-running relationship with a guy (Salter) who is connected in Russia? Those are just many of the things that you seem to pass off as "whatever."

    I am aware of that stuff. Really, it is just conjecture.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    If Robert Mueller concludes that Trump did absolutely nothing wrong, I'll certainly accept that because I believe that Mueller's job is to investigate leads and bring charges when he finds laws were broken.
    Sadly, I don't think most people would respond that way.

    Nobody knows how (or when) the investigation will end. But all we've seen so far is typical Washington acting like Washington does (i.e. lots of accusations of scandals, lots of stuff that sounds very damning, but not much ever really happening).

  69. #2269
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    I think you're treating everything as separate, unconnected events, and completely ignoring the larger picture. Why would Don Jr claim years before Trump announced his (second) presidency run that they had lots of Russian investors, and that lots of money came from Russia? Look at everything that happened with Trump Tower, and the timelines there. Look at the Russian hacker who claimed he was working with the FSB to get the emails. Why does Trump have a long-running relationship with a guy (Salter) who is connected in Russia? Those are just many of the things that you seem to pass off as "whatever."

    I am aware of that stuff. Really, it is just conjecture.
    Conjecture?

    “And in terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets; say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia. There’s indeed a lot of money coming for new-builds and resale reflecting a trend in the Russian economy and, of course, the weak dollar versus the ruble,” he said.
    That was from 2008. How are they now claiming that they've never had Russian investors?

    Trump Tower - So you're claiming that Trump was never pursuing a Trump Tower in Moscow?

    Russian Hacker - Are you claiming that a Russian hacker didn't say that he worked with the FSB to hack emails?

    Salter - Are you claiming that Trump didn't have a relationship with Salter, and is now claiming that he doesn't even know the guy?

    You don't think that ANY of that should be investigated?

    BTW, the definition of Conjecture is "an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information." Incomplete information... which would become complete through an investigation...
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  70. #2270

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    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  71. #2271

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    Well we know about Trump Jr's e-mails, Manafort's foreign lobbying troubles, and both Flynn and Papadopoulos got caught by the FBI for making up stories. Is that evidence of collusion? No. Is it evidence of meddling in the election? No. Is it objective evidence showing members of Trump's team and Russians? Yes. Is it Putin or Kremlin? No. Is it the Russian government? No. Then it begs the questions: which Russians, and why? Was it just business? maybe, maybe not. Was it a set up by opponents to try and pin something on Trump? Maybe, maybe not.

    There is objective evidence that Russia (the country, not the government) did interfere/meddle with the election through propaganda (on Facebook, etc.). There is some subjective evidence that Russia (the government) interfered or attempted to interfere with Trump's campaign. So while there isn't any good evidence showing that Trump's team colluded with the Russian government or that they approved Russian meddling with the election, I do admit, objectively, that Russia attempted to meddle with the election, especially given their scope. Whether or not it is government-backed is still unknown (which is what Mueller is investigating).

    Did Russia's propaganda machine cost Clinton the election? No. Probably not. I suppose there isn't really any way to actually measure that, though.

    In the end there is nothing conclusive, and how (if at all) Trump's team and the Russian government tie together is pure conjecture.

    I also understand why people hate Trump, but his opponents really need to stop imagining that Hillary Clinton's loss was caused by anyone outside the USA.
    Last edited by MrOilers; 10-01-2018 at 04:51 PM.

  72. #2272

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Oh oh!

    Just ruining Mr.AltReich's day


    Mueller adds veteran cyber prosecutor to special-counsel team
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.c020d83a1966

    The Russian Investigation Train is coming down the White House tracks at 100mph..
    The above article says this: "Mueller’s work has long had an important cybersecurity component — central to the probe is Russia’s hacking of Democrats’ emails in an effort to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system and help Trump win. "

    However I didn't think they were certain it was Russians. Googling the issue I found this CNN article below. While the headline is a statement of fact, the reality is that they are saying: "We have high confidence that this is a Russian intelligence organization" - Hultquist

    So it's sloppy journalism on the part of CNN and Washington Post to let the story and simple media repetition of a suspected fact to evolve into a statement of fact and then start to report "high confidence" as a proven fact. As Wooff said of Trump today on CBC Current of Trump "Why does he not read?... he is a post-literate president".* This seems to be a spreading problem.




    How one typo helped let Russian hackers in
    Jim Sciutto-Profile-Image
    By Jim Sciutto, Chief National Security Correspondent
    Updated 10:04 PM ET, Tue June 27, 2017

    "...
    The Russian connection
    By spring 2016, just months before the US election, Russia had successfully breached two Democratic party computer systems: That of the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee.
    James Clapper, the former director of national intelligence, told CNN that US intelligence had been aware of the intrusions since the beginning in the summer of 2015. But it wasn't immediately clear how serious the breaches would become.
    One of the most frustrating aspects of this breach, Clapper continued, was that one of the initial cyberweapons -- the spear-phishing email -- was so simple.

    "That is one of the frustrations I think for all cybersecurity experts," Clapper said. "And that continues to be a leading if not the leading technique that both nation states and non-nation state entities ... including criminals, will use."
    When the DNC's computer technician discovered the breach in April 2016, much of the damage had already been done. The DNC notified the FBI and hired the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike, which quickly identified two culprits with links to Russia. They were dubbed "Fancy Bear" and "Cozy Bear" -- and both were familiar foes for cybersecurity experts.

    Security expert: DNC hackers have Russian link

    "We've known these actors long before any of this transpired around the election," said John Hultquist, director of intelligence analysis for the cybersecurity firm FireEye, which was also tracking the Russian hackers. "We've known these actors for many years. ... There's a lot of evidence that this actor is Russian or a Russian speaker."

    Some of the evidence was surprisingly simple, such as timestamps showing when the hackers were working.

    "The mistake they've made is leaving these timestamps," Hultquist said. "And if you look at enough of them over time, you get a picture of what actual hours this operator is working. And what they come down to is a work schedule that fits right in with western Russia's time zone."

    "Besides that," Hultquist added, "there's a lot of Russian language artifacts," meaning computer code written in the Cyrillic, or Russian, alphabet.

    "We have high confidence that this is a Russian intelligence organization," Hultquist said. "Because we've been tracking this actor for so long and we've seen so many artifacts, forensic and otherwise, that suggests that this actor is carrying out Russian intelligence missions."


    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/27/politi...csr/index.html


    * “there is a constant discussion about what this might be. Why does he not read? Some speculate because he is literally semi-literate. Some that he's dyslexic. Some that he just can't be bothered. Some that actually say that this is his secret. His fundamental political calling card, that he is a post-literate president. All he does is watch television.” - Wolff

    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/popup/audio/...nticated=false


    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/t...81571#segment1


    bolding is mine

  73. #2273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Well we know about Trump Jr's e-mails, Manafort's foreign lobbying troubles, and both Flynn and Papadopoulos got caught by the FBI for making up stories. Is that evidence of collusion? No. Is it evidence of meddling in the election? No. Is it objective evidence showing members of Trump's team and Russians? Yes. Is it Putin or Kremlin? No. Is it the Russian government? No. Then it begs the questions: which Russians, and why? Was it just business? maybe, maybe not. Was it a set up by opponents to try and pin something on Trump? Maybe, maybe not.

    There is objective evidence that Russia (the country, not the government) did interfere/meddle with the election through propaganda (on Facebook, etc.). There is some subjective evidence that Russia (the government) interfered or attempted to interfere with Trump's campaign. So while there isn't any good evidence showing that Trump's team colluded with the Russian government or that they approved Russian meddling with the election, I do admit, objectively, that Russia attempted to meddle with the election, especially given their scope. Whether or not it is government-backed is still unknown (which is what Mueller is investigating).

    Did Russia's propaganda machine cost Clinton the election? No. Probably not. I suppose there isn't really any way to actually measure that, though.

    In the end there is nothing conclusive, and how (if at all) Trump's team and the Russian government tie together is pure conjecture.

    I also understand why people hate Trump, but his opponents really need to stop imagining that Hillary Clinton's loss was caused by anyone outside the USA.
    Nice move towards objective assessment.

    Russian mafia, whatever that is, could also be involved. Which might then tie it to Putin and the Kremlin if there are such ties.

    The possibility of the video of Trump and possible other compromising information would raise some very interesting scenarios tied directly to Trump. If the video never existed, it still raises interesting questions as to the reason and motivation for the creation and distribution of false information. Also, the idea of it and that it occurred in Russia and not just something more predictable and embarrassing in the US is interesting. So it’s not just the idea of Russian collusion but compromising control by Russians. Then there’s Trump’s talks with Putin without decent domestic backup to verify that nothing unbecoming was discussed.

  74. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    In the end there is nothing conclusive, and how (if at all) Trump's team and the Russian government tie together is pure conjecture.
    Which is exactly why Robert Mueller is investigating them, and why the investigation must continue (also, the "end" isn't here yet). There's also the question of who Trump owes money to, which is one reason people want to see his tax returns. It's assumed that Trump owes Russians money, which is one thing they have over him.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  75. #2275

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    If Trump has nothing to hide, why is he hiding?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  76. #2276

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    Surprise, surprise - not.


    Standard tactic - and always slippery.


    Trump Sidesteps Question on Mueller Interview - The New York Times

    By Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Nicholas Fandos
    Jan. 10, 2018
    WASHINGTON — President Trump declined on Wednesday to commit to being interviewed by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel investigating whether his campaign colluded with Russia to sway the 2016 election, backing off his statement last year that he would be willing to talk to Mr. Mueller under oath.

    “I’ll speak to attorneys,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference with Prime Minister Erna Solberg of Norway, when asked whether he would agree to an interview. “We’ll see what happens.”

    That answer was a marked change from June, when Mr. Trump defended his firing of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, denying that it was related to his handling of the Russia investigation, and said he would be “100 percent” willing to give a sworn statement to Mr. Mueller. ...”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/u...erference.html
    Calling Comey a Liar, Trump Says He Will Testify Under Oath - The New York Times
    Excerpt:
    “ Asked whether he would be willing to provide his version under oath, Mr. Trump responded, “100 percent.” He said of Mr. Mueller, “I would be glad to tell him exactly what I just told you.” “

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/09/u...ump-comey.html




    Bolding mine
    Last edited by KC; 11-01-2018 at 05:03 AM.

  77. #2277

    Default

    How about a yuge 2 hour reality TV spectacular called "Make America Great Again" with dancing show girls and a band, and the special guest is President Donald Trump and he gets to show off his very stable genius abilities in front of a live audience as Robert Mueller asks him questions.

    The rating would be yuge, the best. The largest audience in the history of the United States Presidency since the inauguration of Trump's favorite President, Robert E. Lee and Vice President "Stonewall" Jackson. Way bigger than the 12 people who were in the park when that Muslim terrorist from Kenyah had all those dead people vote for him in that rigged election.

    I mean, why wouldn't Trump want to be in a reality show?

    He could win the "Make America Great Again" Trophy



    Then they give him the bonus prize of a 20 year vacation in a very stable and secure hotel with a vertical bar.


    Does he suddenly have stage fright and can't stand being under a spot light?

    Why?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 11-01-2018 at 07:12 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  78. #2278

    Default

    Is this what Trump is trying to distract from with the "********" comments? Did he make the statement knowing that it would leak?

    BBC claims a second source backs up Trump dossier

    BBC correspondent Paul Wood came forward Wednesday to reveal that there are multiple intelligence sources alleging Russia is in possession of potentially embarrassing or compromising material regarding President-elect Donald Trump. Formerly, only a single source was known to have been aware of the alleged material.


    "I saw the report, compiled by the former British intelligence officer, back in October," Wood said. "He is not, and this is the crucial thing, the only source for this.” The Wall Street Journal alleges the British source is Christopher Steele, a director of the London-based Orbis Business Intelligence Ltd.


    A member of the U.S. intelligence community also told Wood that "at least one East European intelligence service was aware 'that the Russians had kompromat or compromising material on Mr. Trump,'" Raw Story reports. Wood said that he "got a message back" from the U.S. intelligence community member and that there is reportedly "more than one tape, not just video, but audio as well, on more than one date, in more than one place, in both Moscow and St. Petersburg."


    http://theweek.com/speedreads/672669...-trump-dossier

  79. #2279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Is this what Trump is trying to distract from with the "********" comments? Did he make the statement knowing that it would leak?

    BBC claims a second source backs up Trump dossier

    BBC correspondent Paul Wood came forward Wednesday to reveal that there are multiple intelligence sources alleging Russia is in possession of potentially embarrassing or compromising material regarding President-elect Donald Trump. Formerly, only a single source was known to have been aware of the alleged material.


    "I saw the report, compiled by the former British intelligence officer, back in October," Wood said. "He is not, and this is the crucial thing, the only source for this.” The Wall Street Journal alleges the British source is Christopher Steele, a director of the London-based Orbis Business Intelligence Ltd.

    A member of the U.S. intelligence community also told Wood that "at least one East European intelligence service was aware 'that the Russians had kompromat or compromising material on Mr. Trump,'" Raw Story reports. Wood said that he "got a message back" from the U.S. intelligence community member and that there is reportedly "more than one tape, not just video, but audio as well, on more than one date, in more than one place, in both Moscow and St. Petersburg."


    http://theweek.com/speedreads/672669...-trump-dossier
    I don't suppose Trump can say pay Putin a hundred and some thousand to make those tapes go away like he did with that porn star woman. Hey, just a thought - maybe Putin takes Bitcoin.

  80. #2280

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    I think Putin would want many times more what Trump paid to one woman...

    No wonder Trump didn't want Mueller looking at his finances. He's broke from paying off all the women he's slept with. And those non-disclosure documents don't come cheap.



    "Look, Kasowitz has known [Trump] for twenty-five years. Kasowitz has gotten him out of all kinds of jams," Bannon reportedly said. "Kasowitz on the campaign — what did we have, a hundred women? Kasowitz took care of all of them."


    This apparently off-hand remark may take on new significance after The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday that another lawyer for the president, Michael Cohen, sent $130,000 to a porn star just weeks before the 2016 presidential election to keep her silent about an alleged 2006 sexual encounter with Trump.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/banno...d-women-2018-1

  81. #2281

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    Fusion GPS retracts their claim that they had a mole in the Trump campaign: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...nside-trump-t/

  82. #2282

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Fusion GPS retracts their claim that they had a mole in the Trump campaign: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...nside-trump-t/
    What we know are facts . The Democrats colluded with Russians via Fusion GPS . Motive : Russian money funding democratic foundations . The sale of uranium to Russians

  83. #2283

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    Old news but interesting:



    FBI discovers cyber attacks during the summer originated in China and stole large amounts of data

    Lee Glendinning
    Fri 7 Nov 2008
    First published on Fri 7 Nov 2008 09.53 EST


    This article is 9 years old


    “Hackers broke into the computer systems of the Barack Obama and John McCain campaign teams during the US presidential race and stole a ''serious amount of files" in an operation that US government cyber experts believe originated from China.

    The Secret Service and FBI warned Obama and McCain earlier this year that their computer networks had been infiltrated by foreign hackers who downloaded large quantities of information from the campaign networks.

    "You have been compromised, and a serious amount of files have been loaded off your system," an FBI agent said, according to a report in Newsweek magazine. ...”


    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2...hite-house-usa
    Bolding mine

  84. #2284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Fusion GPS retracts their claim that they had a mole in the Trump campaign: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...nside-trump-t/

    I’ll have re-read this a few times to understand the issues. I wish they’d put out a graphic of a time———line and exact quotes with annotations so I could understand the who said what when issues.

    However it speaks about characterizations and mischaracterizations and says this at the end:

    “The dossier was financed by the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee. The money went from them to a D.C. law firm to Fusion to Mr. Steele.”

    Now I thought that the whole dossier thing was initiated by a person(s) on the Republican side but that statement doesn’t say anything to that effect. Am I wrong on this or is that statement correct and clear in showing the facts?
    Last edited by KC; 16-01-2018 at 09:20 AM.

  85. #2285
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Default

    Correct, the dossier was initially funded by a Republican who didn't want Trump to win the Republican nomination. When that was dropped, Clinton/DNC picked it up. However, the whole Republican-started-it doesn't fit into the narrative the conservatives want to tell, so it's often left out of stories they want told.

    Also, Steele never would have known who was paying for his work - his contract was with Fusion GPS.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  86. #2286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Correct, the dossier was initially funded by a Republican who didn't want Trump to win the Republican nomination. When that was dropped, Clinton/DNC picked it up. However, the whole Republican-started-it doesn't fit into the narrative the conservatives want to tell, so it's often left out of stories they want told.
    No, it still fits. Trump supporters see self-serving establishment Republicans as part of the establishment swamp. Trump supporters are happy to point out how Trump ruined Jeb Bush's career, and also point out how John McCain had a hand in this fake dossier nonsense.

  87. #2287

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    I'm sure he'll be asking him why he thought that Kushner was a traitor.

    Mueller subpoenas Steve Bannon to testify before grand jury as probe moves closer to Trump

    The New York Times reports that Bannon was issued a subpoena last week and it is “the first time Mr. Mueller is known to have used a grand jury subpoena to seek information from a member of Mr. Trump’s inner circle.”


    Other Trump associates have testified either before the grand jury or directly to investigators without needing to be subpoenaed, and the Times writes that “it was not clear why Mr. Mueller treated Mr. Bannon differently than the dozen administration officials who were interviewed in the final months of last year and were never served with a subpoena.”


    Bannon last week hired legal counsel to represent him in the Russia probe, as it was reported that he retained the counsel of Bill Burck of the firm Quinn Emanuel.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/muel...oser-to-trump/

  88. #2288
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    fake dossier nonsense.
    Except if you're paying attention, it's not a fake dossier. So much of the dossier has been confirmed to be real, or has been unconfirmed (as of yet).
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  89. #2289

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    But much of the nonsense ABOUT the dossier (and not the dossier itself) is, in fact, fake.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  90. #2290

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    Even if 50% was found to be false but the other 50% is true, would you not investigate the truthful ones?

    The dossier has a high degree of factual information and evidence that is leading the investigation to conclusions. We support bring the facts to the light of day. Why do others want to keep us in the dark?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  91. #2291

    Default

    Hmm. Gutless whimp.

    Trump Russia: Steve Bannon refuses to answer at Congress hearing - BBC News

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42715185

  92. #2292

    Default

    Hmm. Gutless whimps is my first impression of all these guys.

    Plus got the questions handed to him to enable him to spin the answers later.




    Trump Russia: Steve Bannon refuses to answer at Congress hearing - BBC News

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42715185

  93. #2293

    Default

    Trump is testing the limits of Executive Privilege, well beyond what other presidents have.

    Bannon Refuses to Testify About Trump, Citing ‘Novel’ Definition of Executive Privilege

    “I think this will probably keep the lawyers busy, but I certainly have never heard of an example where either executive privilege is claimed for a president-elect,” Himes said. “I’ve never heard of executive privilege claimed for conversations between two people that don’t include the president, which were precluded from being asked about today.”


    Republican representative Mike Conaway, who is leading the probe, said the White House never formally invoked executive privilege, and stressed that Bannon has no right to do so himself. Instead, Trump’s former chief strategist claimed he could not answer questions because the White House might invoke executive privilege at a later date. Burck said in a statement, “Executive privilege belongs to the President of the United States. It’s not Mr. Bannon’s right to waive it.”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...privilege.html

  94. #2294

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    Congressional hearings are pretty much toothless. We've seen lots of people over the last couple of years lie to them with no consequences.

  95. #2295

    Default

    Very fine people who lie to a Congressional hearing.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  96. #2296

    Default

    Foreign spies could be manipulating Trump through Fox News
    An ex-CIA analyst on the dangers of Trump’s Fox News obsession.
    https://www.vox.com/world/2018/1/17/...-foreign-spies
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  97. #2297
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    How else is the president supposed to find out what's going on in the world if he's not watching Fox News?

    Maybe advisors in the White House should start their own special TRUMP CHANNEL to feed the president important information in a format he prefers.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  98. #2298

    Default

    They've already got A "Trump Channel".


  99. #2299

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    Fox and Friends is a show, not a channel.

  100. #2300

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    Curiouser and curiouser...
    FBI investigating whether Russian money went to NRA to help Trump

    WASHINGTON
    The FBI is investigating whether a top Russian banker with ties to the Kremlin illegally funneled money to the National Rifle Association to help Donald Trump win the presidency, two sources familiar with the matter have told McClatchy.


    FBI counterintelligence investigators have focused on the activities of Alexander Torshin, the deputy governor of Russia’s central bank who is known for his close relationships with both Russian President Vladimir Putin and the NRA, the sources said.

    http://amp.mcclatchydc.com/news/nati...mpression=true

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