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Thread: Trump Effect - Household Income Hits 15-Year High

  1. #1

    Default Trump Effect - Household Income Hits 15-Year High

    For eight years, President Obama endlessly talked about "middle class" economics. All the while, middle-class family incomes were stagnant. Now they are on the rise. Could Trumponomics be the reason?

    In April, real median household income reached $59,361, according to the latest report from Sentier Research. That's up 2% since January, and is as high as it's been since February 2002. Expressed as an index, median household income was 100.9 in April, which is the first time this index has topped 100 since December 2008.

    By comparison, this index was also lower when Obama left office than when he came in — it stood at 99.2 in January 2009, and was 98.9 in January 2017. It was just 1.7% higher than when the recession ended in June 2009. Last year, incomes barely budged, Sentier data show.

    Another way to look at it: median income has climbed faster in President Trump's first three months in office than it did during 7-1/2 years of Obama's economic "recovery."

    http://www.investors.com/politics/co...-15-year-high/

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    Trump just riding on the Obama effect, taking credit for stuff he had no business taking credit for.





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    Thanks Medwards for the informative information rather than the previous post that cherry picked information out of context.
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    US incomes started rising when business started to flourish in anticipation of a Republican victory, and then tax breaks. I find it funny reading all these European and Canadian elites ripping into Trump. The unemployment rate in the US is at historic lows with many states now below 4%. That's less than half of what we have under Notley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    For eight years, President Obama endlessly talked about "middle class" economics. All the while, middle-class family incomes were stagnant. Now they are on the rise. Could Trumponomics be the reason?

    In April, real median household income reached $59,361, according to the latest report from Sentier Research. That's up 2% since January, and is as high as it's been since February 2002. Expressed as an index, median household income was 100.9 in April, which is the first time this index has topped 100 since December 2008.

    By comparison, this index was also lower when Obama left office than when he came in — it stood at 99.2 in January 2009, and was 98.9 in January 2017. It was just 1.7% higher than when the recession ended in June 2009. Last year, incomes barely budged, Sentier data show.

    Another way to look at it: median income has climbed faster in President Trump's first three months in office than it did during 7-1/2 years of Obama's economic "recovery."

    http://www.investors.com/politics/co...-15-year-high/

    "according to the latest report from Sentier Research."


    Well - here's their chart - show me where this is correct:

    "For eight years, President Obama endlessly talked about "middle class" economics. All the while, middle-class family incomes were stagnant. Now they are on the rise. "




    "all the while" ????????? "Now they are on the rise." ?????????








    http://www.sentierresearch.com/Chart...te_04_2017.jpg

    The report:
    http://www.sentierresearch.com/repor...7_05_23_17.pdf

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    US incomes started rising when business started to flourish in anticipation of a Republican victory, and then tax breaks. I find it funny reading all these European and Canadian elites ripping into Trump. The unemployment rate in the US is at historic lows with many states now below 4%. That's less than half of what we have under Notley.
    Ok - show me.

    I posted the research chart above.


    And more here:

    How unemployment fared under US presidents in history, in one chart
    Pedro Nicolaci da Costa
    May 22, 2017
    http://www.businessinsider.com/unemp...r-trump-2017-5


    http://static3.businessinsider.com/i...%20jobless.png
    Last edited by KC; 24-05-2017 at 01:12 PM.

  8. #8

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    I thought that Trump claimed that the real unemployment rate was 42%

    http://fortune.com/2017/03/10/donald...rt-phony-fake/

    moa, do you mean to say that Trump cut unemployment from 42% to less than 4% in 4 months! WOW! Fantastic! UNBELIEVABLE!
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  9. #9

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    GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

    http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atla...or-2q-20170601


    Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.

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    While in Canada with the guy with better hair...

    Canadian GDP soars 3.7 per cent in first quarter, slightly below analyst expectations
    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...-first-quarter
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

    http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atla...or-2q-20170601


    Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.
    Job creation surged in May thanks to a jump in construction positions and a boom in professional and business services, according to a report Thursday from ADP and Moody's Analytics.Private payrolls increased by 253,000, well ahead of expectations. Economists surveyed by Reuters expected the report to show that private payrolls grew by 185,000 in May from 174,000 in April.
    The growth "is three times the rate of the growth in the underlying labor force," Mark Zandi, the chief economist at Moody's Analytics, told CNBC. "So that means the unemployment rate, which is 4.4 percent, is quickly headed to 4 percent. This labor market is rip-roaring and getting really tight."

    Services broadly led the way with 205,000 new jobs, with professional and business services contributing 88,000 — its best month in about three years — and education and health services adding 54,000.
    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/01/adp-p...-may-2017.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

    http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atla...or-2q-20170601


    Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.
    That is good news!

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    Maybe it's time to look in the mirror???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post



    Maybe it's time to look in the mirror???

    She would never look in that mirror.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I thought that Trump claimed that the real unemployment rate was 42%

    http://fortune.com/2017/03/10/donald...rt-phony-fake/

    moa, do you mean to say that Trump cut unemployment from 42% to less than 4% in 4 months! WOW! Fantastic! UNBELIEVABLE!
    UNBELIEVABLE - you mean like fake news? I realize Trump wants to con everyone, but either his acolytes here are very gullible or they think the rest of us are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

    http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atla...or-2q-20170601

    Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.
    That is good news!
    Wow that sort of seems like really great news, but wait there are twelve months in the year. A quarter of that is three months. The second quarter therefore ends at the end of the sixth month of the year, which is not until June 30, 2017. Therefore, the figure you just gave actually hasn't happened yet. We are at the end of May, not the end of June - hope nothing bad or unexpected happens in June.

    Maybe you can predict the future and know that June's growth is going to be really TERRIFIC, but perhaps we should probably wait until the end of June to actually see what really happens. Of course, even if it is around 4%, that would just make up for their poor first quarter so the average growth for the first six months would still be below 3%.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

    http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atla...or-2q-20170601

    Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.
    That is good news!
    Wow that sort of seems like really great news, but wait there are twelve months in the year. A quarter of that is three months. The second quarter therefore ends at the end of the sixth month of the year, which is not until June 30, 2017. Therefore, the figure you just gave actually hasn't happened yet. We are at the end of May, not the end of June - hope nothing bad or unexpected happens in June.

    Maybe you can predict the future and know that June's growth is going to be really TERRIFIC, but perhaps we should probably wait until the end of June to actually see what really happens. Of course, even if it is around 4%, that would just make up for their poor first quarter so the average growth for the first six months would still be below 3%.
    Actually, the growth results are based on the fiscal year, not calendar year.

    CANADA'S FISCAL YEAR
    The fiscal year of the Canadian federal government and the country's provincial and territory governments is April 1 to March 31, just like most other British commonwealths (and Britain itself). This is different than the tax year for Canadian citizens, however, which is the standard January 1 to December 31 calendar year. So if you're paying personal income taxes in Canada, you'll follow the calendar year.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/canadian-fiscal-year-510404



  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

    http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atla...or-2q-20170601

    Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.
    That is good news!
    Wow that sort of seems like really great news, but wait there are twelve months in the year. A quarter of that is three months. The second quarter therefore ends at the end of the sixth month of the year, which is not until June 30, 2017. Therefore, the figure you just gave actually hasn't happened yet. We are at the end of May, not the end of June - hope nothing bad or unexpected happens in June.

    Maybe you can predict the future and know that June's growth is going to be really TERRIFIC, but perhaps we should probably wait until the end of June to actually see what really happens. Of course, even if it is around 4%, that would just make up for their poor first quarter so the average growth for the first six months would still be below 3%.
    Actually, the growth results are based on the fiscal year, not calendar year.

    CANADA'S FISCAL YEAR
    The fiscal year of the Canadian federal government and the country's provincial and territory governments is April 1 to March 31, just like most other British commonwealths (and Britain itself). This is different than the tax year for Canadian citizens, however, which is the standard January 1 to December 31 calendar year. So if you're paying personal income taxes in Canada, you'll follow the calendar year.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/canadian-fiscal-year-510404
    Ok. It is a US Fed figure, so it may refer to a different period than say when a Canadian bank economist is talking about quarters, as the Canadian banks are not government agencies. It just had 2017: Q2 in the article, but it doesn't refer to which months anywhere so that is why I was thinking it was calendar year.

    However, I also noticed that it released by the Atlanta Fed so I think this forecast would be for the part of the US this Fed covers and not the whole country.

    In particular, I noticed the last line of the article which said:

    The next estimate will be released on Friday, June 2nd. ON that day the NY Fed will release their estimate for GDP growth as well. Their most recent estimate is for a more modest 2.2% gain.

    So these must not be national figures, apparently growth in the New York area is not a rosy as the Atlanta area.

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  21. #21

    Default Sorry, Trump haters. The GOP victory in Georgia is huge, and here's why

    Once you get past the horror of the chattering classes / liberal media, and look at what's actually happening - its a very different story. Huge win for the republicans in Georgia:

    If anything, this race proves Republicans have no reason to be defensive as a result of Obamacare’s demise. It shows Republicans have nothing to hide from in the age of Trump. And it signifies that nothing about the current faux-scandal-ridden environment has produced a downdraft for Republicans.

    Democrats thought they were going to walk away from Tuesday’s race victorious, but they have yet to produce a viable person-to-person message for their candidates to work with. They still don’t have an economic message for voters who want something more than the liberal call for more welfare. And they have no legitimate response to the national call for a shift away from the status quo.
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/ed-r...6-d40302016a65

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    Thank you for that wonderful op-ed from a paid Republican/Saudi/Raytheon shill. Very informative.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/people/ed-rogers

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    No doubt Trump's policy's of ridding many of the rules and regulations , dropping the tax rate will attract business and investment . It was primary reason I closed shop . Just waiting for the 15% tax rate and my money's all going Trump land

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Once you get past the horror of the chattering classes / liberal media, and look at what's actually happening - its a very different story. Huge win for the republicans in Georgia:

    If anything, this race proves Republicans have no reason to be defensive as a result of Obamacare’s demise. It shows Republicans have nothing to hide from in the age of Trump. And it signifies that nothing about the current faux-scandal-ridden environment has produced a downdraft for Republicans.

    Democrats thought they were going to walk away from Tuesday’s race victorious, but they have yet to produce a viable person-to-person message for their candidates to work with. They still don’t have an economic message for voters who want something more than the liberal call for more welfare. And they have no legitimate response to the national call for a shift away from the status quo.
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/ed-r...6-d40302016a65
    Thanks for the link!

  25. #25

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    Why Americans Feel So Good About a Mediocre Economy - Bloomberg

    There's a divergence between "soft" measures of sentiment and "hard" data. Partisan leanings offer an explanation.
    By Noah Smith June 26, 2017

    "One big source of systematic error is partisanship. It’s well known that the party of the president has a dramatic effect on people’s views of the economy. Before the election in November, Democrats held a much more favorable view of the economy than did Republicans; after Trump won, that gap promptly flipped. Republicans now claim to be extremely confident about the economy, while Democrats report pessimism."


    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...diocre-economy
    Last edited by KC; 26-06-2017 at 02:46 PM.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Why Americans Feel So Good About a Mediocre Economy - Bloomberg

    There's a divergence between "soft" measures of sentiment and "hard" data. Partisan leanings offer an explanation.
    By Noah Smith June 26, 2017

    "One big source of systematic error is partisanship. It’s well known that the party of the president has a dramatic effect on people’s views of the economy. Before the election in November, Democrats held a much more favorable view of the economy than did Republicans; after Trump won, that gap promptly flipped. Republicans now claim to be extremely confident about the economy, while Democrats report pessimism."


    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...diocre-economy
    I suppose partisanship does play a role, but what passes for analysis here is not that vigorous these days. There is a fairly even split between Democrats and Republicans in the US, so any change in power should not increase or decrease overall confidence, it should just change who is confident vs. who is not.

    I believe unemployment rates, hours worked, etc... have more of an effect on overall confidence than partisanship. While the US economy is not moving ahead quickly, unemployment is continuing to go down. Given that the unemployment rate is more of a lagging indicator than a leading one, I think consumer confidence is more of a predictor of the present than the future. In other words, not much of a predictor at all.

    It could be that the economic recovery is now spreading to parts of the country that were lagging (such as mid west and rural US - more Republican areas) from the big cities. A more even economic recovery might be more robust and therefore a good thing. However, if consumer confidence is now falling in the more Democrat bigger cities that might point to some weakness and possibly some future problems.

    The last recession started under the Republicans. The recovery started and continued under Obama. I would argue that to this point, this is just a continuation of that recovery, as the new administration has not implemented any major tax or budget changes yet.

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    ^I guess its all because of Obama - you know, all the consumption he is doing sailing round on massive billionaire yachts, that type of thing...

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    ^ sounds like you're on to something houston

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I guess its all because of Obama - you know, all the consumption he is doing sailing round on massive billionaire yachts, that type of thing...
    I know, right? Why do people criticize the new president for golfing and tweeting all the time when the last guy already fixed everything?

  31. #31

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    I am your voice I alone can fix it. I will restore law and order.

    Donald Trump, Republican National Convention
    Well Donald, get to it. Fix that healthcare that you say should cost $12 a year. Defeat ISIS within your first 90 days with your super secret plan that you can't tell anyone about but it's the best. Solve the problems of Israel and Palestine which you have said is not nearly as difficult as people say.

    If he alone can do it, then he cannot cast the blame on anyone else. It's all on him. Let's see how he's done, shall we?



    https://qz.com/971930/trumps-100-day...erican-people/

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    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...71789198802944

    That huge dip is coincidentally when Obama was in office

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    You mean Bush.

    Pretty much hit bottom before Obama was actually president.
    There can only be one.

  34. #34

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    Obama was sworn in Jan. 20, 2009. So pretty much all the improvement shown happened during his administration.

  35. #35

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    Trump hasn't even made his tax cuts yet. .....U.S is headed for a mega boom ! Jobs for all !

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    You mean Bush.

    Pretty much hit bottom before Obama was actually president.
    By some measures I wouldn't be surprised if most of the jobs and factories left the US for China under Bush Jr.


    What people don't get is that "us richer" may not mean "you richer". You may become poorer whole others become much richer. The loosers in such 'progressive changes' get a hard lessen in society's lack of compassion when those destined to win by enriching foreigners and other countries then pull the rug out from under their own citizens in the name of "win-win" globalization.



    US Manufacturing Job Losses Show How Much Richer Chinese Imports Have Made Us


    This paper links the sharp drop in US manufacturing employment after 2000 to a change in US trade policy that eliminated potential tariff increases on Chinese imports. Industries more exposed to the change experience greater employment loss, increased imports from China, and higher entry by US importers and foreign-owned Chinese exporters. At the plant level, shifts toward less labor-intensive production and exposure to the policy via input-output linkages also contribute to the decline in employment. Results are robust to other potential explanations of employment loss, and there is no similar reaction in the European Union, where policy did not change.
    We can see that post-2000 change there. That's a secular, structural, change, it's not, as before, associated particularly with a recession or other economic bad times. And it doesn't stop when the good times return. And as the paper points out that drop in manufacturing employment is due to more open trade with China, it's Chinese imports causing that.
    ...

    But they didn't stay unemployed - they're now working in the service sector ...

    The result of this is that now we can consume those Chinese imports plus the services being made by those ex-manufacturing workers. We're richer, we are able to consume more.
    ...


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#4f49760a6912



    Bolding was mine

    Brexit, Trump ... surprise? Not to those sidelined and permanently damAged by trade policy etc.
    Last edited by KC; 25-07-2017 at 12:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...71789198802944

    That huge dip is coincidentally when Obama was in office
    Your statement is factually untrue, and you should be ashamed of yourself for being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Obama was not inaugurated until late January 2009, and it takes months for policy to be made, laws to be passed, and so on. That "huge dip" is entirely at George W. Bush's feet.

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    You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...71789198802944

    That huge dip is coincidentally when Obama was in office
    Your statement is factually untrue, and you should be ashamed of yourself for being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Obama was not inaugurated until late January 2009, and it takes months for policy to be made, laws to be passed, and so on. That "huge dip" is entirely at George W. Bush's feet.
    Well, investors and so to a degree markets try to be forward looking - until they panic that is. So I'd say it's often fair to go back to the time of the election and try to assess election impact on markets. Most times I'd say it's a wasted effort on a largely inconsequential event. Anyway, that's stock markets.

    Labour markets though are more likely to deal with the here and now or lagging factors. In a growth period, employees are kept but at some point the direction changes and predictions flip from 'temporary bump' to 'the boss may fire me if I don't fire people'. So after orders start to slow, near certain says prospects fail to materialize, inventory builds, etc, then the layoffs occur. Then there's the lag in stats and definitions that come into play.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....
    Ah, so you don't understand the graph. That explains it.

    I'll explain.

    The graph does not show relative losses or gains per year, it shows income relative to a baseline.
    So what you see is not continued, though shrinking, losses for almost all of Obama's tenure, it shows a massive drop in bush's last couple years that stabilized at the same time that Obama became president, two-3 years with little change and then 5 years of constant gains that have continued with no change under Trump.
    There can only be one.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....
    Bankruptcies tumbled under Obama after a while. They see to be rising under Trump. "Because of what" is another question.

    Those that can't think very well, just cherry pick and attribute anything they don't like to the president or party they don't like.
    However... when, where and why should a new President or political party be blamed on bad numbers, or credited with good numbers under their term is a matter best left for those wiling and able to think with their own brains.



    Great Debt Unwind: Consumer Bankruptcies Jump, First since 2010. Commercial Bankruptcies Spike
    by Wolf Richter • Apr 8, 2017

    The Fed’s monetary policies have purposefully encouraged businesses and consumers to borrow. But debt doesn’t just go away. It accumulates. By now, an increasing number of businesses and consumers are suffocating under this debt overhang in an economy that never developed the “escape velocity” needed – and hyped by Wall Street for years – to outgrow this debt. Rising bankruptcies are a turning point in the “credit cycle.” They’re not exactly a positive mile-marker for the economy.

    The irony is thick: In all major sentiment surveys, economic confidence has soared since November: consumers, owners of small businesses, and corporate executives are riding high on their own ebullience. But the economic reality is tough for businesses and consumers struggling under the hangover from eight years of ultra-low interest rates.

    I hope the model is wrong. Read… Atlanta Fed GDPNow Forecast Spirals Toward Zero "

    http://wolfstreet.com/2017/04/08/com...nkruptcies-up/




    Consumers and Businesses Buckle under their Debts
    by Wolf Richter • Jul 6, 2017

    Commercial Chapter 11 bankruptcies – an effort to restructure the business, rather than liquidating it – jumped 16% year-over-year in June to 581 filings across the US. Total commercial bankruptcies of all types, by large corporations to tiny sole proprietorships, rose 2% year-over-year to 3,385 filings, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute. This was up 39% from June 2015 and up 18% from June 2014.

    Commercial bankruptcies topped out at 9,004 in March 2010. By that time, credit conditions had been easing for a year, and liquidity was chasing yield. Not much later, even zombie companies – if they were large enough – were able to refinance their debts and borrow more to fund their operations and keep creditors happy. Bankruptcies fell sharply: In September 2015, they bottomed out at 2,217 filings....

    The chart shows the trend since 2013: Sharp year-over-year decreases in bankruptcies as consumers recovered from the Financial Crisis. The decreases gradually tapered off, as would be expected – bankruptcies are not going to fall to zero. But now a new phase has commenced: year-over-year increases in bankruptcies.

    Clearly, consumers aren’t yet all of them together collapsing under their debts in one fell-swoop, but the “early red flag” is being confirmed as more and more consumers are buckling....

    http://wolfstreet.com/2017/07/06/con...-credit-cycle/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....
    The labor market, in terms of job creation, has slowed down since Trump was elected in November. Not to a significant degree, but it can be quantified. It has not accelerated, as you again falsely claim: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0..._view=net_1mth

    Why do you find numbers so difficult to relay honestly?

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    Don't worry Marcel, facts are not part of Hilman's lexicon.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....
    Ah, so you don't understand the graph. That explains it.

    I'll explain.

    The graph does not show relative losses or gains per year, it shows income relative to a baseline.
    So what you see is not continued, though shrinking, losses for almost all of Obama's tenure, it shows a massive drop in bush's last couple years that stabilized at the same time that Obama became president, two-3 years with little change and then 5 years of constant gains that have continued with no change under Trump.

    Yup, he saw that the Obamas presidency on the graph was below an arbitrary line, and decided that that must mean anything below that line is negative.

  45. #45

  46. #46

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    Which means absolutely zilch.

  47. #47

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    Let's put it in perspective.

    What Really Happened to the Stock Market During the Obama Years

    Since Obama's first inauguration on Jan. 20, 2009, U.S. equities have surged 12% a year, not counting dividends, in what turned out to be the second-longest bull market in history.


    To put that in perspective, those price gains were nearly four percentage points per year more than domestic equities have averaged since the end of World War II. They also compare favorably to the 4.6% annual losses suffered by the S&P 500 index of U.S. stocks under the eight years of Obama's predecessor, President George W. Bush.

    Here's one other way to think about it: If during the upcoming administration of President-elect Donald Trump, the stock market were to replicate the success it enjoyed under Obama, rising by a factor of 2.5, then the Dow Jones industrial average -- which currently stands at just under the 20,000 level -- would have to climb all the way up to 50,000.

    http://time.com/money/4636241/stock-...sidents-obama/



  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Yes, I saw that!!

  49. #49

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    Two massive announcements today on the job front. Apple going to start manufacturing in the USA. Also wal mart going to start buying/ manufacturing in USA. 10000job projection from apple 1.5 million from wal mart.. I don't come on here to listen to most of the irrational bickering. I feel I'm on the same wavelength of the average American who does little engagement with the loud left. And quick question to the left of trumpers: at what point can

    food stamp dependence decrease?
    Job participation increase?
    home ownership increase?
    House values increase?
    Manufacturing jobs increase?
    stock markets increase?
    business confidence increase?

    Im sure this list could be expanded quickly. But my question to the never trumps out there is simple. At what point would some numbers have to increase for y'all to eat your hat? I want to here some hard answers not deflection. Add to my list I don't mind. Love or hate the guy is fine but I find it straining that some will never give credit when due yet we live in an inclusive tolerant society?

  50. #50

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    I'll start giving Trump credit if these trends continue for sure over the next 6 months. Right now, its pre-mature to give him credit for a lot of these things as these are mostly the results of work of the previous administration.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    Two massive announcements today on the job front. Apple going to start manufacturing in the USA. Also wal mart going to start buying/ manufacturing in USA. 10000job projection from apple 1.5 million from wal mart.. I don't come on here to listen to most of the irrational bickering. I feel I'm on the same wavelength of the average American who does little engagement with the loud left. And quick question to the left of trumpers: at what point can

    food stamp dependence decrease?
    Job participation increase?
    home ownership increase?
    House values increase?
    Manufacturing jobs increase?
    stock markets increase?
    business confidence increase?

    Im sure this list could be expanded quickly. But my question to the never trumps out there is simple. At what point would some numbers have to increase for y'all to eat your hat? I want to here some hard answers not deflection. Add to my list I don't mind. Love or hate the guy is fine but I find it straining that some will never give credit when due yet we live in an inclusive tolerant society?

    Who cares about them? Kudos to the President..

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I'll start giving Trump credit if these trends continue for sure over the next 6 months. Right now, its pre-mature to give him credit for a lot of these things as these are mostly the results of work of the previous administration.
    If he doesn't quit first and move in with roommate, Vladimir...
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  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    Two massive announcements today on the job front. Apple going to start manufacturing in the USA. Also wal mart going to start buying/ manufacturing in USA. 10000job projection from apple 1.5 million from wal mart.. I don't come on here to listen to most of the irrational bickering. I feel I'm on the same wavelength of the average American who does little engagement with the loud left. And quick question to the left of trumpers: at what point can

    food stamp dependence decrease?
    Job participation increase?
    home ownership increase?
    House values increase?
    Manufacturing jobs increase?
    stock markets increase?
    business confidence increase?

    Im sure this list could be expanded quickly. But my question to the never trumps out there is simple. At what point would some numbers have to increase for y'all to eat your hat? I want to here some hard answers not deflection. Add to my list I don't mind. Love or hate the guy is fine but I find it straining that some will never give credit when due yet we live in an inclusive tolerant society?
    So a search for apple manufacturing news gets me a story about apple planning a 2,000 job plant in Arizona that's been in planning since 2009.

    "Walmart manufacturing news" gets me a story about walmart making some recommendations based on their 2013 US manufacturing program, and some conjecture about the possible benefits nation wide, IF all their recommendation were enacted and IF they had the results that their optimistic model predicts.
    Last edited by Highlander II; 26-07-2017 at 04:15 PM.
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  54. #54

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    Anyone who takes Cheeto Mussolini's tweets about Apple at face value is a maroon, especially without corroboration or comment from Apple themselves.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  55. #55

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    Heard Apple is moving offices to downtown Vancouver from the US. Where in the US, not sure.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  56. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Heard Apple is moving offices to downtown Vancouver from the US. Where in the US, not sure.
    Why would they do that? They just opened up a 12,000 person, 2,800,000 square foot office to centralize their workforce in Cupertino.



    Green circle is Apple Park. The pentagon is The Pentagon.
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  57. #57

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    Or that Cheeto Il Duce saved all those Carrier jobs and stopped that Ford plant from moving to Mexico...

    600 layoffs coming to Carrier plant Trump claimed to save last year
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/60...rticle/2626836After Trump pressured Ford out of moving factory to Mexico, company decides to build the new Focus in China
    Ford Motors announced it would manufacture the new Focus in China, rather than Mexico as previously planned
    http://www.salon.com/2017/06/20/afte...ocus-in-china/

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    Trump's 'Magic Wand': MacDonald Says Dow Up 20% Since Dire Election Day Predictions
    Elizabeth MacDonald said on "Risk & Reward" that the Dow Jones Industrial Average is up 20 percent since Election Day.

    Tuesday marked its 48th record close since last November.

    In addition, about 863,000 jobs have been created in that time.

    MacDonald looked back on several dire warnings from the media after Trump was announced the winner of the 2016 election.

    "Markets around the world are in turmoil at this hour," CNN's Alisyn Camerota said on November 7.

    Over on MSNBC, Ali Velshi reported on global markets "sinking" with the news of Hillary Clinton's defeat.

    Many others offered a dire forecast for the American economy as it entered the Trump years.

    MacDonald played a clip of President Barack Obama asking where Trump's "magic wand" was that will bring back jobs to America.

    "How exactly are you going to do that?" Obama asked an audience in 2016. "He just says it... What magic wand do you have?"
    http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/0...ma-cnn-economy

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    Toyota to build $1.6 billion U.S. plant with rival Mazda: source

    WASHINGTON/DETROIT (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) and rival Mazda Motor Corp are expected to announce plans on Friday to build a $1.6 billion U.S assembly plant as part of a new joint venture, a person briefed on the matter said.
    The plant will be capable of producing 300,000 vehicles a year, with production divided between the two automakers, and will employ about 4,000 people when it opens in 2021, the person said.
    A new auto plant would be a major boost to U.S. President Donald Trump, who campaigned on promises to increase manufacturing and expand employment for American autoworkers.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-to...KBN1AJ2O4?il=0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Toyota to build $1.6 billion U.S. plant with rival Mazda: source

    WASHINGTON/DETROIT (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) and rival Mazda Motor Corp are expected to announce plans on Friday to build a $1.6 billion U.S assembly plant as part of a new joint venture, a person briefed on the matter said.
    The plant will be capable of producing 300,000 vehicles a year, with production divided between the two automakers, and will employ about 4,000 people when it opens in 2021, the person said.
    A new auto plant would be a major boost to U.S. President Donald Trump, who campaigned on promises to increase manufacturing and expand employment for American autoworkers.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-to...KBN1AJ2O4?il=0
    That's good for the US.

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    Good to hear that Toyota/Mazda are opening a plant in the US. The bidding war will be intense.

    If the trend continues, the taxpayer will pay for the multinational corporation welfare.

    So much for "Making America Great Again"
    More like, take money from the 99% and give it to the 1%

    On a previous announcement, the bidding war cost $3 billion in subsidies

    Foxconn gets $3 billion in tax subsidies to build plant in WisconsinBy George Marlowe 31 July 2017
    The Taiwanese electronics supplier Foxconn—known for its brutal exploitation of workers in sweatshop factories in China and internationally—recently announced it would open a plant in the economically depressed area of southeast Wisconsin. Republican Governor Scott Walker and the Trump administration worked out the deal with Foxconn in exchange for massive tax subsidies.
    Foxconn, the iPhone manufacturer and world’s largest consumer electronics makers, stands to receive nearly $200 million a year in state tax incentives over 15 years. While numerous states, including Michigan, were in a bidding war to get Foxconn to build a factory in their states, Wisconsin offered the most lucrative package that would effectively siphon off public funds to allow the company to exploit a low-wage workforce.


    It is telling that the corporations and the government, with the full backing of the unions, have reduced the wages of American workers to such a low level that cheap labor specialists like Foxconn are now investing in America’s “Rust Belt” states.


    In total, Foxconn will receive nearly $3 billion in tax subsidies with $150 million in sales tax exemption. The state of Wisconsin is only expected to receive about $116 million in tax revenue in return annually, effectively handing the multinational corporation over $74 million a year. These figures exclude the details of the local funding for infrastructure spending for roads and sewers that have yet to be released.


    According to Walker, the deal worked out with Foxconn comes with lofty promises that 3,000 jobs will be created by 2020. Wisconsin officials and the Trump administration also boasted last week that Foxconn could hire as many 13,000 at the plant and create more than 20,000 jobs indirectly.


    Governor Walker was elected in 2010 on the promise that he would create more than 250,000 jobs in the state through the slashing of corporate taxes, deregulation and the gutting of social programs. In 2011, these attacks sparked a mass movement against Walker, which was sabotaged by the unions, which diverted opposition behind a fruitless campaign to recall Walker and elect a Democratic governor.


    While Foxconn claims its 3,000 workers will have all-in pay of $53,000 a year—which includes health care and other benefits—that is only 50 cents an hour higher than the average wage in Wisconsin. Incredibly, the state of Wisconsin will pay Foxconn $66,000 per employee based on tax breaks and other incentives.

    The grand promises of Walker, Trump and Foxconn of job creation and economic growth are belied by the reality of state-funded deals made with such corporations. In 2013, Foxconn promised to build a $30 million factory in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which would employ over 500 workers. In fact, no such plant was built nor a single job created. Similar deals were made by Foxconn in other countries, such as Brazil and Vietnam.


    Similarly, General Motors once promised to build its Saturn plant in return for state funding. It played 24 states against each other for public money. The bidding war resulted in the state of Tennessee forking over $240 million to the corporation, or paying nearly $26,000 for each job created. Other corporations, including Mercedes Benz, have also looted public funds to build factories in other states.
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    Things are doing well there, DOW at an all time high, they just announced that the economy added 209,000 jobs in July and has unemployment rate down to 4.3%. Thanks Obama

  63. #63

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    Obama added sometimes 300,000 jobs in a month.

    The US job reports show that Trump is not performing any better than Obama in previous years.

    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 04-08-2017 at 09:20 AM.
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    The U.S. economy beat expectations by adding 209,000 jobs in July, as robust hiring continued to encourage new job seekers.

    The labor market has gained steam over the last two months. June brought 231,000 new jobs, up from an initial count of 222,000, and July job growth easily kept pace above the first-half monthly average of 180,000 jobs. Hiring in the last month was strong enough to absorb new entrants into the workforce. The labor force participation rate ticked higher to 62.9% from 62.8%, but the unemployment rate fell to 4.3% from 4.4%, tying a 16-year low.
    http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...-expected.html

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    The unemployment rate was lower in every month from June 2000 to March 2001. And in four months in 2005 and 2006, the unemployment rate was also 4.4 percent.
    It’s important to note, however, that unemployment has been steadily declining since the end of the recession in 2009. So neither Mr. Trump nor any other president takes all the credit.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/u...g-economy.html
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Record 153,513,000 Employed: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...-participation

    US trade deficit is narrowing: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireS...-june-49031342

    US jobless rate matched a 16-year low, workers are seeing monthly wages grow: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...labor-strength

    Toyota & Mazda building new plant in the USA creating 4,000 new jobs: https://twitter.com/AP/status/893394077772898304



    Lots of positive financial news for the USA this week.

  67. #67

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    You're forgetting about the best financial news of the week.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.388bf9cfea0b

    It’s possible the president filed the right paperwork. But without a full release of his tax returns, the available evidence suggests he hasn’t. According to New York City property records, Trump paid $13,000 in state and local transfer taxes for these two sales. That is the correct amount for a sale between strangers. But if he paid state and local transfer taxes, that means he didn’t treat the transfers as gifts. And on the real estate forms filed in New York, Trump didn’t check any of the boxes indicating that these were sales between relatives or sales of less than the entire property. It would seem, then, that he treated the transactions as if they were sales for fair market value to a stranger.

    Since Trump did not cast the transactions as gifts for state and local tax purposes, it is almost certain that he did not do so for federal gift tax purposes, either. In our combined 40 years of experience as tax lawyers, we are unaware of a situation in which a taxpayer would report a transaction as a fair market value between strangers on the state level (and thus incur real estate taxes) but treat it as a gift at the federal level (and thus incur an additional tax). It’s fair to infer that Trump didn’t follow the rules.
    I mean, what's a little fraud & tax evasion? Just dad trying to help his son out & attempting to weasel out of taxes. No big deal, no sir.

    Willful failure to file a tax return, including a gift tax return, is a misdemeanor , punishable by a $25,000 fine, imprisonment of up to one year or both. Fraudulent failure to file — meaning an overt act of evasion — may elevate willful failure to a felony . That carries a fine of up to $100,000, imprisonment of up to five years or both, along with the costs of prosecution. According to internal guidance provided by the IRS to its agents, factors indicating potential fraud include repeated contacts by the IRS, failure to cooperate with IRS agents or employees, knowledge of the filing requirements, offering implausible or inconsistent explanations, substantial tax liability, and refusal or inability to explain failure to file.
    Oh. Guess it is a big deal.
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    Investing.com -- A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions.

    The study shows that the jobs were temporary, contract positions, or part-time "gig" jobs in a variety of fields.
    Female workers suffered most heavily in this economy, as work in traditionally feminine fields, like education and medicine, declined during the era.
    The research by economists Lawrence Katz of Harvard University and Alan Krueger at Princeton University shows that the proportion of workers throughout the U.S., during the Obama era, who were working in these kinds of temporary jobs, increased from 10.7% of the population to 15.8%.
    Krueger, a former chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, was surprised by the finding.

    The disappearance of conventional full-time work, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. work, has hit every demographic. “Workers seeking full-time, steady work have lost,” said Krueger.
    Under Obama, 1 million fewer workers, overall, are working than before the beginning of the Great Recession.
    https://www.investing.com/news/econo...ct-work-449057

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    Let's go to the conclusions of the actual study (which aren't really conclusions, because they need more research, just leading explanations) :

    Many possible factors could have contributed to the large increase in the incidence of alternative work arrangements for American workers from 2005 to 2015 that we have documented in this paper. Although a fuller evaluation will have to await further research, here we provide an initial evaluation of some leading explanations.

    The first explanation is that alternative work is more common among older workers and more highly educated workers, and the workforce has become older and more educated over time. A shift-share analysis, however, indicates that shifts in the age and education distribution of the workforce account for only about 10 percent of the increase in the percentage of workers employed in alternative work arrangements from 2005 to 2015. Other supply-side factors, such as a possible increase in demand for flexible work hours (perhaps supported by the increased availability of health insurance as a result of the Affordable Care Act) may also have contributed, although it is unlikely that supply-side factors account for the lion’s share of the rise in alternative work arrangements since the rise in employees who are hired out to other firms through contract firms or temporary help agencies accounts for more than half of the overall rise in the share of employment in alternative work arrangements in the last decade.

    Second, technological changes that lead to enhanced monitoring, standardize job tasks and make information on worker reputation more widely available may be leading to greater disintermediation of job tasks. Coase’s (1937) classic explanation for the boundary of firms rested on the minimization of transaction costs within firm-employee relationships. Technological changes may be reducing the transaction costs associated with contracting out job tasks, however, and thus supporting the disintermediation of work.

    Third, Abraham and Taylor (1996) argue that contracting out is often sought because firms seek to restrict the pool of workers with whom rents are shared, as well as to reduce the volatility of core employment. A rise in inter-firm variability in profitability is thus consistent with a greater desire for contracting out to reduce rent sharing (although increased contracting out could also have contributed to the rise in inter-firm variability in profits). Relatedly, Weil (2014) argues that competitive pressures are causing a “fissuring” of the workplace, with either workers being misclassified as contract employees or work being redefined to make greater use of contract workers and independent contractors.

    Finally, it is plausible that the dislocation caused by the Great Recession in 2007-2009 may have caused many workers to seek alternative work arrangements when traditional employment was not available. Although we cannot assess how much of the rise in alternative work arrangements occurred in the aftermath of the Great Recession, if this is the case then one might expect a return to a lower percentage of workers employed in alternative work arrangements over time, as the effects of the recession continue to fade.
    The only part of the conclusions of the actual study (and not right-wing rhetoric based on cherrypicking the report out of context) that can even be attributed directly to the Obama Administration is that more people may not be working in traditional employment because they are no longer forced to, thanks to the wider availability of health care outside of said employment structure.

    Damn that Obama, freeing people from forced servitude to earn what the rest of the developed world considers a basic human right without toiling away in a job they don't like or want! Health care is meant to be doled out only to those who deserve it through their hard work & bootstrap-pulling-up-ness! What's next, doling it out universally to everyone instead of a complicated system of insurance, middlemen, HMOs, hospitals & doctor networks, like some sorta socialists?!

    https://krueger.princeton.edu/sites/...h_29_20165.pdf
    Last edited by noodle; 04-08-2017 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Added link, changed one sentence, fixed formatting.
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  70. #70

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    ^^I believe its the first time Mazda will be building in North American (well, post their old links with Ford). People may not like Trump, but the business community has taken to heart the risk of losing US marketplace if they don't have US manufacturing (even if there is no teeth behind the threat).

  71. #71

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    Canada’s job market runs hot as jobless rate hits 9-year low
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle35880487/

    I guess we have to credit Trump for Canada's booming job market as well. It certainly can't be credited to Trudeau.


    How much credit can you give Trump for the US job numbers that have been a long term trend for nearly 8 years, not 8 months?
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  72. #72

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    A little more than 1/12th?
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  73. #73

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    A surprisingly thorough article here. Trump's looking great in several respects!

    How Do Trump's Dow Records Stack Up? - Bloomberg

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...rd-setting-dow

  74. #74

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    The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  75. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
    No, regular Americans (and Canadians) depend on the stock market to fund their retirements, the biggest investors in corporations are pension funds, regular folks / middle class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
    No, regular Americans (and Canadians) depend on the stock market to fund their retirements, the biggest investors in corporations are pension funds, regular folks / middle class.
    Of course they do. God, if this was Mr O, people would be shrieking his praises!

  77. #77

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    Seeing as under Obama the market has increased much more that under Trump and the fact that Obama started from a much, much weaker position, yeah.

    Trump is like a baseball player who was born on third base claiming he's great because he hit a triple.

  78. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
    No, regular Americans (and Canadians) depend on the stock market to fund their retirements, the biggest investors in corporations are pension funds, regular folks / middle class.
    Of course they do. God, if this was Mr O, people would be shrieking his praises!
    Stocks are only worth anything if they're cashed in, so inflated 401k and RRSP numbers are misleading measures of wealth, for only those who hold the paper. A change in the value of the dollar has an immediate impact on everyone.

    That's why Trump is only trumpeting the rise in the Dow: it looks good.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
    No, regular Americans (and Canadians) depend on the stock market to fund their retirements, the biggest investors in corporations are pension funds, regular folks / middle class.
    Of course they do. God, if this was Mr O, people would be shrieking his praises!
    Stocks are only worth anything if they're cashed in, so inflated 401k and RRSP numbers are misleading measures of wealth, for only those who hold the paper. A change in the value of the dollar has an immediate impact on everyone.

    That's why Trump is only trumpeting the rise in the Dow: it looks good.
    I had CNN on they were talking about it.Where did I say Trump was talking about It?
    Get off many jock, leftie !
    Last edited by H.L.; 04-08-2017 at 01:08 PM.

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I had CNN, they were talking about it.Where did I say Trump was talking about It?
    Get off many jock, leftie !
    Do you smell toast? Are you having a stroke?
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  81. #81

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    Is The Trump Jobs Boom Beginning?

    So are Trump's efforts to get the economy going again through a series of bold executive orders starting kick in? It sure looks that way.

    As Timothy Doescher of the Heritage Foundation's Daily Signal news blog notes, the recent pick up in job gains come "without major substantive reforms like repealing ObamaCare or tax cuts. Instead, gains have likely come from reductions in harmful regulations that make it easier to run businesses in the U.S."


    http://www.investors.com/politics/ed...oom-beginning/

  82. #82

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    Construction industry sees wages increase since the crackdown on illegal immigration:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/02...crackdown.html

  83. #83

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    ^not surprising, I was told by Texans in the past, the reason their housing is so cheap, is all the illegal immigrant labor. Its bizarre to me that the left wing in the US, who supposedly care about worker salaries, also want illegal immigration (who basically get abused for minimal compensation which removes jobs for blue collar American workers).

  84. #84

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    ^ It's the same argument the Democrats used back 1800s when defending slavery - i.e. "Without slaves, who will pick the cotton for such a low wage?"

  85. #85

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    We have plane loads of Mexican immigrant construction workings coming to Canada every summer season as well.

    In the real world, most of the hand picked crops are done by immigrant, seasonal and illegal workers. If they completely cut the tide, everything from strawberries to peaches would rot in the fields because few 'white' students, new generation and welfare recipients want to bend down in the dirt for minimum wage and work.

    Labor shortages do increase the price of goods and services.

    Home prices will then rise as well as food prices.

    Good in some ways unless you want to go to the grocery store. Wanna pay $10 for a basket of strawberries?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 07-08-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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  86. #86

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    I've also seen lefties defending the exploitation of illegal aliens because illegals can be paid slave wages.

  87. #87

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    You buy products made in China, don't you?
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  88. #88
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    Trump's plan to reduce/eliminate regulations should help small businesses. So we could see real wage growth if the labor market becomes really tight.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  89. #89

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    Yeah, Trump's really a fan of hiring American. Here's a thought, what if he offered more money to the workers?

    Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort applies for 70 foreign worker visas during 'Made in America' week
    The 'Winter White House' claims it could find no Americans to fill non-agricultural seasonal jobs
    The company is seeking 35 waiters and waitresses at Mar-a-Lago along with 20 cooks and 15 maids. A listing is also posted for six cooks at the Trump National Golf Club in Jupiter, Florida.


    The jobs pay anywhere from $10.33 to $20.01 per hour. They run from Oct. 1 to May 31.


    Between 2013 and 2015, his Mar-a-Lago property in Florida employed 246 workers on the H-2B visa. Since 2000, Mr Trump received 1,024 H-2B visas for his businesses for waiters, kitchen, and housekeeping staff, according to a CNN report.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7853436.html


  90. #90

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    Are they legal workers?

  91. #91

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    ^there doesn't seem to be any evidence Trump is sneaking them in illegally and paying them less than minimum wage (which is what the entire illegal immigration debate is about).

  92. #92

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    Why does he not find staff who live in Florida?
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  93. #93
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    You obviously have never owned a business of any size. It can be very difficult to find help. Without help you don't have a business. Donald Trump was never against immigration or legal workers from abroad. He was against illegal aliens , people sneaking in across the borders by the millions and being in the country illegally, working illegally, not paying taxes and generally using the system. Get your facts straight.

  94. #94

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    Help is hard to find when you want to pay low wages. Help is never hard to find when you pay a reasonable amount for the work being done.

  95. #95
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    $10 to $20 is fairly good for those particular jobs in that area. Some of these jobs would also be tipped well.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 08-08-2017 at 11:54 AM.

  96. #96

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    Those aren't high wages, but arguing that the solution is to hire illegals to do it instead is actually kind of racist.

  97. #97

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    If those were good wages, Trump would be able to find people locally to work there.
    The Foreign Workers of Mar-a-Lago
    The President has a dim view of extending visas to employees in the technology industry. But, when it comes to his club, it’s a different story.


    When it comes to America’s technology industry, Donald Trump takes a dim view of foreign workers. “I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program”—it provides visas for technical and skilled employees—“and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers for every visa and immigration program,” he said in a statement a year ago. “No exceptions.”


    When it comes to the hospitality industry, though, Trump is much more, well, hospitable. His Administration recently made it harder to get H1-B visas, but he has expressed no objection to the visa category that hotels and resorts use—the H-2B—to attract low-cost, low-skilled seasonal labor. In fact, at Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach club, the visas are still in active use. Why the exception to the no-exception rule?

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...-of-mar-a-lago
    Says he won't raise the minimum wage. That wages are too high.

    Donald Trump said wages are 'too high' in his opening debate statement

    "We are a country that is being beaten on every front — economically, militarily," Trump said. "Taxes too high, wages too high, we're not going to be able to compete against the world ... People have to go out, they have to work really hard, and they have to get into that upper stratum."

    http://www.businessinsider.com/donal...o-high-2015-11

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Those aren't high wages, but arguing that the solution is to hire illegals to do it instead is actually kind of racist.
    Ya it's stupid. I had an illegal Brit on a jobsite once and immigration and the RCMP hauled him off. He was deported directly. He had even bought a house here. Canada upholds the laws why can't DT

  99. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    You obviously have never owned a business of any size. It can be very difficult to find help. Without help you don't have a business. Donald Trump was never against immigration or legal workers from abroad. He was against illegal aliens , people sneaking in across the borders by the millions and being in the country illegally, working illegally, not paying taxes and generally using the system. Get your facts straight.
    Well you are wrong. I have three companies. I have hired many people over the years and never had to resort to sourcing foreigners on work visas.

    It may be legal to do so but flies in the face of what Trump yells at the top of his lungs. He does not practice what he preachs. Rather than hiring local people, he brings in foreign workers. And he gets his line of Trump clothing made in Mexico, China and other foreign countries with low wages.

    Get YOUR facts straight!
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  100. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Those aren't high wages, but arguing that the solution is to hire illegals to do it instead is actually kind of racist.
    Ya it's stupid. I had an illegal Brit on a jobsite once and immigration and the RCMP hauled him off. He was deported directly. He had even bought a house here. Canada upholds the laws why can't DT
    FYI, two out of every three Haitians coming into Canada from the US are being deported.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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