Amazon looking for a place to put HQ #2

[RichardS]

but if a calgarian and an edmontonian end up the bar at an airport bar in california (i know, i know, it sounds like the lead-in to a really bad joke) with a real estate rep for some other software company, which albertan is better equiped to deliver a successful elevator pitch?

If that real estate rep is a Trump supporter, he'll listen to the one that makes the most noise. We've seen the power of "the one that makes the most noise."

How does the age old cliché of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease?" suddenly become the domain of anything Trump? It has nothing to do with it. What's next, we bring up Trump when peacock mating habits are discussed? This board-wide dsire to Trump every thread is nauseating....

Of course companies, people, and cities try to balance brash, brazen, and bullish when advertising. Name me an actor/actress who thinks a mediocre headshot will get them noticed???

I credit Calgary with doing a better job of getting their name out there than Edmonton. Even if they had no chance of winning HQ2, their marketing antics could have other benefits with employees (think tourism; think startups by departing employees), distribution hubs, AI labs and what have you.

Antics are one thing...they can get you remembered. However, given this RFP, and the easily seen frontrunners, antics probably wouldn't help. A more careful, cautious delivery may attract more attention. This isn't some viral sensation or "challenge".

Amazon already did a ton of research before even releasing this RFP. They already knew Calgary's (and Edmonton's) position.

[Meo]

^^We know they got their name out there (because we're from Edmonton and get Alberta news). And I doubt someone from Texas is going to be motivated by their offer to change their name/fight a bear.

Substance > Flair/Gimmick

Maybe Edmonton is being top secret about it, to get investors curious (like...what can you offer me, if I move my HQ down there)

[Spudly]

That age-old cliche isn't relevant here. Squeaky wheels need fixing. Attracting new business is all about promises, and loud promises are not shown to be any more effective than promises that aren't loud.

[gwill211]

all you see are articles written on calgarys bid from all sorts of media right now.. nothing on edmonton.

I'm not sure how anyone can say edmontons low key bid was beneficial in any way for our city. It's as tho the bid never happened. Meanwhile we'll continue to read about calgary for the next week or two.

[RichardS]

That age-old cliche isn't relevant here. Squeaky wheels need fixing. Attracting new business is all about promises, and loud promises are not shown to be any more effective than promises that aren't loud.

...and neither is the squeakiest wheel in need of grease...sometimes it is best to let it seize and remove the wheel...

That cliché is very relevant here...just as "it is not what you know, it is who you know"...

[H.L.]

all you see are articles written on calgarys bid from all sorts of media right now.. nothing on edmonton.

I'm not sure how anyone can say edmontons low key bid was beneficial in any way for our city. It's as tho the bid never happened. Meanwhile we'll continue to read about calgary for the next week or two.

Money well spent says Iverson, but Amazon loved the bike lans, really? well Toronto's isn't that great, so how is it they are still in the running..

[RichardS]

Amazon may have hinted, or said, good job on bike lanes. ...more than likely because to hit the "sustainability" questions in the response matrix, they mentioned it.

...but to tout that project as a game changer...nope.

TO is in the running simply due to:

• metro size
• access to trained IT workforce
• access to logistics and distribution expertise (I've helped configure more than my fair share of companies out in Hogville)
• Great Lakes shipping +CN/CP hub +Pearson
• proximity to US border & 2/3 of US population
• and IMO...just to have a major Canadian/non-US option to keep the contest "international"

[RichardS]

all you see are articles written on calgarys bid from all sorts of media right now.. nothing on edmonton.

I'm not sure how anyone can say edmontons low key bid was beneficial in any way for our city. It's as tho the bid never happened. Meanwhile we'll continue to read about calgary for the next week or two.

...don't forget that our media outlets have a larger presence in Calgary than here...so that will help explain the bias...

The more I read this thread...the more I align with kcantor...release the details of our bid (or at least the ones that are not NDA bound) so we can be advocates and speak from the same songsheet.

to add...I would submit that to NOT bid would be more disastrous than to bid. While admittedly out of reach, to not play in the highest business sweepstakes game around lately would make us look far worse (and far less willing to try/play/work) than a low key bid. In fact, I would further augment that having a low key bid, devoid of gimmicks and hubris, would make us look better in this light. We at least know our place, but if we were asked to the dance, this is what we would do...

[H.L.]

It will go to somewhere is the US imho

[Glenco]

I am not quite that petty small minded or juvenile. Toronto “Canada’s biggest city don’t you know “ would be quite insufferable if they happened to win. However I feel they stand a good chance for a number of reasons lower Canadian dollar, immigration laws, cheaper healthcare and a vibrant high tech sector. Being close to a port is not that important as this is a head office not a distribution centre. I for one would be happy if they got it.

[Spudly]

That age-old cliche isn't relevant here. Squeaky wheels need fixing. Attracting new business is all about promises, and loud promises are not shown to be any more effective than promises that aren't loud.

...and neither is the squeakiest wheel in need of grease...sometimes it is best to let it seize and remove the wheel...

That cliché is very relevant here...just as "it is not what you know, it is who you know"...

My bad, I was looking at it logically, but in these Trump days words don't mean what they used to.

Rant on...

[Dave]

all you see are articles written on calgarys bid from all sorts of media right now.. nothing on edmonton.

I'm not sure how anyone can say edmontons low key bid was beneficial in any way for our city. It's as tho the bid never happened. Meanwhile we'll continue to read about calgary for the next week or two.

...don't forget that our media outlets have a larger presence in Calgary than here...so that will help explain the bias...

The more I read this thread...the more I align with kcantor...release the details of our bid (or at least the ones that are not NDA bound) so we can be advocates and speak from the same songsheet.

to add...I would submit that to NOT bid would be more disastrous than to bid. While admittedly out of reach, to not play in the highest business sweepstakes game around lately would make us look far worse (and far less willing to try/play/work) than a low key bid. In fact, I would further augment that having a low key bid, devoid of gimmicks and hubris, would make us look better in this light. We at least know our place, but if we were asked to the dance, this is what we would do...

While I don't disagree that some media outlets tend to favour Calgary, I think there was more to it in this case. As I recall, Calgary decided to submit a bid fairly quickly while Edmonton took longer, so that might be part of the reason Calgary got more media coverage. Towards the end of the bidding process I recall Edmonton being mentioned as a bidder in a number of media reports.

While media coverage or lack thereof can be frustrating, I am not sure decision makers really pay as much attention to media coverage as we might think. With all the cutbacks in media, I am sure many people realize the quality and depth is not what it used to be.

[Gemini]

I'm thinking Austin Texas will get Amazon's new headquarters. Whole Foods has it's headquarters there and Whole Foods is now owned by Amazon. Just a guess though.

[norwoodguy]

Austin - Current headquarters for Whole Foods
Atlanta - UPS Hub, major airline hub with world's busiest airport, one of North America's hottest tech hubs
Boston - Major higher education hub, supposedly personal favorite amongst some Amazon execs
New York - major international city, high cost of accomodations, high income taxes
Chicago - colleges? architecture, too much in the midwest in my opinion
Toronto - one of North America's top tech hubs, access to many universities, ethnic diversity appealing to foreign immigrants, exchange rate, lower cost for medical benefits, Toronto bid actually encompasses multiple municipalities, access to direct flights for international destinations. Biggest disadvantage is not USA and political cost to Amazon

According to anallyst on CBC news the other night the financial incentives offered by various bids are not that important because they are a drop in the bucket given Amazon's gross revenue. Another potential advantage for certain US states is where there are no state income taxes.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

I credit Calgary with doing a better job of getting their name out there than Edmonton. Even if they had no chance of winning HQ2, their marketing antics could have other benefits with employees (think tourism; think startups by departing employees), distribution hubs, AI labs and what have you.

Antics are one thing...they can get you remembered. However, given this RFP, and the easily seen frontrunners, antics probably wouldn't help. A more careful, cautious delivery may attract more attention. This isn't some viral sensation or "challenge".

Amazon already did a ton of research before even releasing this RFP. They already knew Calgary's (and Edmonton's) position.

Maybe the Amazon decision makers weren't impressed, but their employees and other passersby may be swayed as tourists, immigrants, future business and such.

[metro]

Edmonton needs to be more loud and brash. Our national profile, never mind our international profile is too low.

True Story: my spouse was interviewing medical residents applying for positions in Edmonton today. A medical school graduate from Saskatoon Saskatchewan, who also attended primary and secondary school there, said during the interview that one of the reasons they wanted a residency in Edmonton was due to the fact that Edmonton was about the same size as Saskatoon. Not area wise, population.

A one off, maybe, but it still blows my mind.

[Glenco]

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1307415
Call me small minded petty or juvenile but I am loving the tears coming from the south. Edmonton spent about $75,000 where as they spent $500,000.
Although Amazon did point out their short comings I heard on another broadcast they did not elaborate on Edmonton’s short comings but they were very interested in certain elements of the bid. Stay tuned.

on the other hand, their 500,000 put a lot more information and awareness in calgarians' heads and hands than ours did. amazon didn't select either canadian city but if a calgarian and an edmontonian end up the bar at an airport bar in california (i know, i know, it sounds like the lead-in to a really bad joke) with a real estate rep for some other software company, which albertan is better equiped to deliver a successful elevator pitch?

I credit Calgary with doing a better job of getting their name out there than Edmonton. Even if they had no chance of winning HQ2, their marketing antics could have other benefits with employees (think tourism; think startups by departing employees), distribution hubs, AI labs and what have you.

Blowing your own horn is all very well and good but you had better be able to back it up otherwise you end up embarrassed and hurt when exposed internationally. This could just as easily back fire on them.
“The emperor has no clothes”

[Glenco]

Edmonton needs to be more loud and brash. Our national profile, never mind our international profile is too low.

True Story: my spouse was interviewing medical residents applying for positions in Edmonton today. A medical school graduate from Saskatoon Saskatchewan, who also attended primary and secondary school there, said during the interview that one of the reasons they wanted a residency in Edmonton was due to the fact that Edmonton was about the same size as Saskatoon. Not area wise, population.

A one off, maybe, but it still blows my mind.

By no means a one off. Stayed at a bed and breakfast in Toronto a few years ago the owners were of the opinion that Edmonton Regina and Saskatoon were all about the same. Our profile is pitifully low but I think it has made progress with Brad Ferguson as head of EEDC.

[Dave]

Edmonton needs to be more loud and brash. Our national profile, never mind our international profile is too low.

True Story: my spouse was interviewing medical residents applying for positions in Edmonton today. A medical school graduate from Saskatoon Saskatchewan, who also attended primary and secondary school there, said during the interview that one of the reasons they wanted a residency in Edmonton was due to the fact that Edmonton was about the same size as Saskatoon. Not area wise, population.

A one off, maybe, but it still blows my mind.

By no means a one off. Stayed at a bed and breakfast in Toronto a few years ago the owners were of the opinion that Edmonton Regina and Saskatoon were all about the same. Our profile is pitifully low but I think it has made progress with Brad Ferguson as head of EEDC.

Well that also reinforces the stereotype that some who live in the 'centre of the universe" are rather self absorbed and do not know much about the rest of the country. A simple comparison of population figures would indicate one of these is not quite the same as another. It would be kind of like saying Great Falls Montana is the same as Denver - nope!

[RichardS]

Well that also reinforces the stereotype that some who live in the 'centre of the universe" are rather self absorbed and do not know much about the rest of the country. A simple comparison of population figures would indicate one of these is not quite the same as another. It would be kind of like saying Great Falls Montana is the same as Denver - nope!

While it may re-enforce the centre of the universe stereotype...one also must ask...have we given them a reason to even bother to look us up?

To take your example, why would someone from NYC care if Great Falls and Denver were the same size?

...but to add to the chorus...even people in the Canadian Military forget Edmonton is the size it is. One conversation had a over the Airshow with an RCAF one star had him wondering why Edmonton thought it was bigger than...Whitecourt...yes...Whitecourt...

[norwoodguy]

Well that also reinforces the stereotype that some who live in the 'centre of the universe" are rather self absorbed and do not know much about the rest of the country. A simple comparison of population figures would indicate one of these is not quite the same as another. It would be kind of like saying Great Falls Montana is the same as Denver - nope!

It's like the question posed to Americans as to what they think of Canada and the response is "we don't". Which begs another question, how well do we think we really know Toronto? Or similarly any other city. I'm of the opinion that you really don't get a true sense unless you've lived there for some period of time to appreciate the nuances.

[Dave]

Well that also reinforces the stereotype that some who live in the 'centre of the universe" are rather self absorbed and do not know much about the rest of the country. A simple comparison of population figures would indicate one of these is not quite the same as another. It would be kind of like saying Great Falls Montana is the same as Denver - nope!

While it may re-enforce the centre of the universe stereotype...one also must ask...have we given them a reason to even bother to look us up?

To take your example, why would someone from NYC care if Great Falls and Denver were the same size?

...but to add to the chorus...even people in the Canadian Military forget Edmonton is the size it is. One conversation had a over the Airshow with an RCAF one star had him wondering why Edmonton thought it was bigger than...Whitecourt...yes...Whitecourt...

I suppose one could ask why should anyone bother to look anything up, everyone can just live in ignorance instead. While I am sure we can do more to put out information and a positive image some people are happy to learn as little as possible about anything outside their immediate concern. Perhaps you don't get one star for thinking or having an inquiring mind.

[RichardS]

Fair enough...but then that remark could be followed with, "have you bothered to look up city/place/region/festival (etc) X?"

It is a balance between having the desire to look it up, with the ability of those wanting to be looked up to incent that desire.

[Dave]

Fair enough...but then that remark could be followed with, "have you bothered to look up city/place/region/festival (etc) X?"

It is a balance between having the desire to look it up, with the ability of those wanting to be looked up to incent that desire.

Yes, that is true. Ironically, it is easier than ever these days to get information - the other day I was googling the population of Portland Oregon along with several Canadian cities, I think it took 30 seconds to get an accurate figure for Portland. Now, maybe I have strange hobbies and many people don't care about what size cities or other places actually are, that's fine. However, to paraphrase the old saying it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. If you are talking to someone from Edmonton (or wherever) and you are not sure about something regarding the place, ask the person from there rather than giving an uninformed and wrong opinion. The people who need to know how big Edmonton is, can find it out without too much difficulty. Those people just shooting the breeze with someone they encounter from Edmonton may understandably have no idea, in which case we can give them the correct information.

[bolo]

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...xperts-puzzled

The City of Edmonton and the Edmonton Economic Development Corp. (EEDC) have just denied Postmedia’s freedom of information request for a copy of the unsuccessful proposal.
Instead, 400 pages of heavily redacted emails suggest how the bid was put together, highlighting an obsession with Calgary and a commitment to secrecy.
...
EEDC vice-president Glen Vanstone said even the mayor didn’t get the bid, in an email sent one day before the deadline.
...
EEDC chief of staff Adam Sweet complained to the mayor’s office that Premier Rachel Notley was Tweeting too much about the southern city.
...
for a long-shot city like Edmonton, the whole point of applying was to make a splash. “The real value in bidding was to say to the world, ‘We’re open to this kind of business and here’s the kinds of things we’re willing to do.’ If it’s not open, you don’t get that value.”
...
“Just getting attention is important,” he said. “Calgary and Edmonton, they’re somewhat conceited. They believe the world knows about them. The world doesn’t.”

[ajs]

What great reporting. And as all good reporting it reveals as much, or more, than what is written.

At least Bill Smith wore his simpering fealty to "job creators" on his sleeve, publicly courting call centres - the current fashion of the time. This group can't even get the PR right.

Like Greg LeRoy says, I'd like to see what other names are in the bid. Who else was going to benefit?

[Gemini]

Our civic tax dollars in action. Just pay the darn bill and don't ask any questions as to what we do with the money.

[H.L.]

Our civic tax dollars in action. Just pay the darn bill and don't ask any questions as to what we do with the money.

Exactly! And extremely unfair!

[River Valley Green]

My take (all imo): they felt they had to make some sort of bid, but they weren't going to spend the money to do it proper. In other words, it's probably a bit shoddy. So now in order to save face, they're trying to hide it. Even if I'm right, I can't say I blame them too much. We were never going to get it and I think the whole promotion angle is waaay overrated.

[Gemini]

^Or it could be the opposite. They could have offered the moon and don't want us to see it to save a bit of embarrassment. By showing it it may encourage other businesses to want the same. Or maybe existing businesses may ask why they didn't get the same deal. Either way the bid should be opened so we can see what they are offering on the taxpayers dime. They are there to serve the citizens of Edmonton and not act like some secret society.

[River Valley Green]

^Or it could be the opposite. They could have offered the moon and don't want us to see it to save a bit of embarrassment.

I've never thought so due to this: "But Iveson said even if Calgary offers financial incentives to sweeten the deal, Edmonton will not."

http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonton/2017/09/26/mayor-says-edmonton-a-stronger-candidate-for-amazon-office-than-calgary.html

[H.L.]

Either way, if its taxpayers footing the bill, the amount should be clear!

[Gemini]

^Or it could be the opposite. They could have offered the moon and don't want us to see it to save a bit of embarrassment.

I've never thought so due to this: "But Iveson said even if Calgary offers financial incentives to sweeten the deal, Edmonton will not."http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonton/2017/09/26/mayor-says-edmonton-a-stronger-candidate-for-amazon-office-than-calgary.html

Well it would be nice if we knew the details. I wonder if there is any clause where the C of E will have to be forced to disclose this to the public.

[River Valley Green]

I don't disagree. I think they should have to reveal it. But this entire episode highlights the utter absurdity of "dance puppets dance" capitalism, with mega corps like Amazon as the puppeteers.

[Gemini]

Amazon has the clout and they use it. Out of all the cities that put forth bids Amazon got to see just how much they could lever out of each one of them. They must be feeling pretty smug.

[IanO]

Indeed. Brilliant 'marketing' play as well.

[River Valley Green]

I find it somewhat humorous. People complain about what the city gave to Katz. But when you add up all the incentives Amazon will get from the city that wins this bid, the arena deal will look like a complete steal in comparison, not to mention just a minor little blip.

[envaneo]

The bid should be made public since its after the fact anyway.

[Gemini]

The bid should be made public since its after the fact anyway.

..........and we are not in the running.
My bets on Austin.

[envaneo]

^ Why?

For all we know it Amazon's Hq2 could be Fargo North Dakota. Your guess is as good as theirs....

[Gemini]

Headquarters of Whole Foods (which Amazon has just acquired) is as good a reason as any. It's just a guess I've got no horse in the race.

[ctzn-Ed]

I wouldn't say brilliant but logical. it is human nature, at least learned behavior, to expect something in return. Southgate mall's expansion advertisement in 2007 was brilliant.

[envaneo]

Headquarters of Whole Foods (which Amazon has just acquired) is as good a reason as any. It's just a guess I've got no horse in the race.

With all the Nafta talks and all, one things for certain it won't be here in Canada.

[Gemini]

Amazon cutting hundreds of corporate jobs in its Seattle headquarters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1FW1ZA

[ctzn-Ed]

Amazon cutting hundreds of corporate jobs in its Seattle headquarters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1FW1ZA

I been expecting this. Theyll keep the Seatle head office as a status quo to stay in line with Trump. The other headquarter will most likely be Toronto to avoid taxes etc. Our lower dollar doesn't hurt either.

[envaneo]

Amazon cutting hundreds of corporate jobs in its Seattle headquarters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1FW1ZA

I been expecting this. Theyll keep the Seatle head office as a status quo to stay in line with Trump. The other headquarter will most likely be Toronto to avoid taxes etc. Our lower dollar doesn't hurt either.

50,000 job losses in this age of re tooling Nafta? Ain't going to happen in any Canadian city.

[ctzn-Ed]

What does NAFTA has anything to do with this. They are looking for a second head quarter yet cut staffs at the current head quarter? I see TO getting it is because our corporate tax is cheaper, our labour cost will be cheaper as the dollar is cheaper.

[Gemini]

Vancouver officials bragged that their tech workers are the lowest paid in North America. This is coming from one the most expensive places to live in Canada.
I hope every techie in Vancouver takes a week off sick, synchronize it so it's the same week.
Vancouver's race to the bottom to secure Amazon Headquarters.


http://edmontonjournal.com/news/cana...0-ee7917841efc

[Dave]

Vancouver officials bragged that their tech workers are the lowest paid in North America. This is coming from one the most expensive places to live in Canada.
I hope every techie in Vancouver takes a week off sick, synchronize it so it's the same week.
Vancouver's race to the bottom to secure Amazon Headquarters.


http://edmontonjournal.com/news/cana...0-ee7917841efc

More likely nothing so dramatic. Companies will just gradually start to gravitate to other more affordable places, Victoria and Kelowna are two that come to mind.

Sometimes Vancouver's low unemployment rate in recent years has been cited as a sign of a healthy economy, but it is not. It is a sign that people can't afford to move there for what jobs pay there. If they don't fix their housing affordability problem soon it may become the largest retirement community in Canada along secondary homes for offshore people some whose money comes from questionable place. If they want to get a coffee or shop, they may eventually have to go to Chilliwack, because of the lack of affordability retail businesses in particular are also having trouble attracting staff.

[kcantor]

Vancouver officials bragged that their tech workers are the lowest paid in North America. This is coming from one the most expensive places to live in Canada.
I hope every techie in Vancouver takes a week off sick, synchronize it so it's the same week.
Vancouver's race to the bottom to secure Amazon Headquarters.


http://edmontonjournal.com/news/cana...0-ee7917841efc

More likely nothing so dramatic. Companies will just gradually start to gravitate to other more affordable places, Victoria and Kelowna are two that come to mind.

Sometimes Vancouver's low unemployment rate in recent years has been cited as a sign of a healthy economy, but it is not. It is a sign that people can't afford to move there for what jobs pay there. If they don't fix their housing affordability problem soon it may become the largest retirement community in Canada along secondary homes for offshore people some whose money comes from questionable place. If they want to get a coffee or shop, they may eventually have to go to Chilliwack, because of the lack of affordability retail businesses in particular are also having trouble attracting staff.

no, tech companies aren't fleeing to "more affordable places". not unless you consider singapore, boston, seoul, taipei, los angeles, london, new york, san francisco, beijing etc. to be "more affordable" alternatives.

[Dave]

Vancouver officials bragged that their tech workers are the lowest paid in North America. This is coming from one the most expensive places to live in Canada.
I hope every techie in Vancouver takes a week off sick, synchronize it so it's the same week.
Vancouver's race to the bottom to secure Amazon Headquarters.


http://edmontonjournal.com/news/cana...0-ee7917841efc

More likely nothing so dramatic. Companies will just gradually start to gravitate to other more affordable places, Victoria and Kelowna are two that come to mind.

Sometimes Vancouver's low unemployment rate in recent years has been cited as a sign of a healthy economy, but it is not. It is a sign that people can't afford to move there for what jobs pay there. If they don't fix their housing affordability problem soon it may become the largest retirement community in Canada along secondary homes for offshore people some whose money comes from questionable place. If they want to get a coffee or shop, they may eventually have to go to Chilliwack, because of the lack of affordability retail businesses in particular are also having trouble attracting staff.

no, tech companies aren't fleeing to "more affordable places". not unless you consider singapore, boston, seoul, taipei, los angeles, london, new york, san francisco, beijing etc. to be "more affordable" alternatives.

Fleeing no, but Toronto, Waterloo, and Ottawa are all more affordable places that have strong tech economies in Canada. Sorry Vancouver is more likely destined to be the world's biggest gated community (well maybe with bridges instead of gates) rather than a great tech center. Amazon has already realized this.

[envaneo]

What does NAFTA has anything to do with this. They are looking for a second head quarter yet cut staffs at the current head quarter? I see TO getting it is because our corporate tax is cheaper, our labour cost will be cheaper as the dollar is cheaper.

Everything. Why would any American company want to set up shop in Canada, especially Ontario at $15/hour, when for example New Jerseys min wage is at $8.60?

[Medwards]

Currently, $15 CAD is roughly $11.60 USD

Also, I doubt Amazon is a minimum wage employer. Some how I sincerely doubt it, and therefore, why would minimum wage matter? And if they do have a few minimum wage earners, that number is not going to affect their bottom line that much. Now if we were talking about a distribution warehouse or something choosing between NJ and TO... Sure... Maybe you might have a point.

[Gemini]

Vancouver officials bragged that their tech workers are the lowest paid in North America. This is coming from one the most expensive places to live in Canada. I hope every techie in Vancouver takes a week off sick, synchronize it so it's the same week. Vancouver's race to the bottom to secure Amazon Headquarters. http://edmontonjournal.com/news/cana...0-ee7917841efc

More likely nothing so dramatic. Companies will just gradually start to gravitate to other more affordable places, Victoria and Kelowna are two that come to mind.Sometimes Vancouver's low unemployment rate in recent years has been cited as a sign of a healthy economy, but it is not. It is a sign that people can't afford to move there for what jobs pay there. If they don't fix their housing affordability problem soon it may become the largest retirement community in Canada along secondary homes for offshore people some whose money comes from questionable place. If they want to get a coffee or shop, they may eventually have to go to Chilliwack, because of the lack of affordability retail businesses in particular are also having trouble attracting staff.

no, tech companies aren't fleeing to "more affordable places". not unless you consider singapore, boston, seoul, taipei, los angeles, london, new york, san francisco, beijing etc. to be "more affordable" alternatives.

Fleeing no, but Toronto, Waterloo, and Ottawa are all more affordable places that have strong tech economies in Canada. Sorry Vancouver is more likely destined to be the world's biggest gated community (well maybe with bridges instead of gates) rather than a great tech center. Amazon has already realized this.

I think you both missed the point I was trying to make. In Vancouver's bid for Amazon was a boast on how little it paid it's workers. Now take Amazon out of the equation. Who in the technical field would want to go work there after Vancouver said that. What techie is going to say I'm moving to Vancouver because they pay the least in Canada for my expertise. What immigrant with a technical degree is going to be attracted by that. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. What other professions get paid less in Vancouver I wonder.

[Drumbones]

80% of the fuel used in the GVRD comes from Alberta via Kinder Morgan and BC is feuding with Alberta and Kinder Morgan. I wonder if that would affect a decision by Amazon.

[Gemini]

^That's a good angle actually. B.C. is not a province to do business with. Notley should take that and run with it.
First they approve of things then they disapprove or move the goal posts.

[etownboarder]

What other professions get paid less in Vancouver I wonder.

When I was considering getting the hell out of Edmonton (cause let’s face it, even those of us who love Edmonton go through times when it drives us to want to leave) most of the job postings in post secondary administration that I looked into were all 10-20% lower pay for the equivalent position here in Edmonton.

[Dave]

What other professions get paid less in Vancouver I wonder.

When I was considering getting the hell out of Edmonton (cause let’s face it, even those of us who love Edmonton go through times when it drives us to want to leave) most of the job postings in post secondary administration that I looked into were all 10-20% lower pay for the equivalent position here in Edmonton.

I don't think pay is higher in Vancouver for much, if anything. I believe the thinking there is that many people want to move to beautiful Vancouver so there is a discount in pay vs. Toronto or several other major Canadian cities. Maybe pay is a bit higher than Montreal or Atlantic Canada, I am not sure.

It can be a nice place, but getting paid 10% less than here, which is what I saw when I looked some time ago, and having to pay twice as much for housing does not seem like a good bargain. You must really have to like rain to endure that.

[Medwards]

15-30% lower for similar roles I have now. Add in the much higher cost of living... I don't mind winter so much. Vancouver will just be a nice place to visit for me.

[envaneo]

Currently, $15 CAD is roughly $11.60 USD

Also, I doubt Amazon is a minimum wage employer. Some how I sincerely doubt it, and therefore, why would minimum wage matter? And if they do have a few minimum wage earners, that number is not going to affect their bottom line that much. Now if we were talking about a distribution warehouse or something choosing between NJ and TO... Sure... Maybe you might have a point.

That would depend on the job posting and what's considered the industry standard for said posting. I'd imagine Amazon is mostly a automated system anyway. The plant near Calgary will employ about 750 jobs when its built. Basically its going to be a distribution warehouse.

[Medwards]

Yes but the second HQ wont be a warehouse. Its a HQ. i doubt there will be many if any min. Wage earners outside of contracted janitors to clean the place

[kkozoriz]

And the winner is - Downtown Los Angeles

Amazon Selects LA for $5 Billion HQ2

LA WATCHDOG-APRIL 1, 2018--According to a secret memo prepared by the office of Mayor Eric Garcetti, Amazon has reached a preliminary agreement with the City, the County, and the State to locate its second corporate headquarters (“HQ2”) in the city of Los Angeles, primarily in the area surrounding the Union Station transportation hub and the nearby Los Angeles River.

http://www.citywatchla.com/index.php...-5-billion-hq2

[Drumbones]

Oh ya, dated April 1

[kkozoriz]

Just noticed that. Originally saw the Mar 29 date in the byline.

We shall see.

[RichardS]

...April 1...and it will NOT be going to the West Coast...

[Drumbones]

In the comments they were saying Newark,NJ had been announced. I hadn't heard that, or was that also an April 1 thing.

[IanO]

Interesting read on the whole Edm/Cal Amazon bid thing.

https://www.ualberta.ca/business/alu...-in-the-jungle

[nobleea]

Interesting read on the whole Edm/Cal Amazon bid thing.

https://www.ualberta.ca/business/alu...-in-the-jungle

Interesting article, I'd agree with most of what's said in it.

Separately, TO's chances are probably increasing with every Tweet trump sends out on how Amazon isn't playing fair.

[envaneo]

If Toronto ever won the Amazon Hq sweepstakes, I wonder how that would play out in the backdrop of NAFTA.

[H.L.]

https://www.theverge.com/platform/am...athroom-breaks

Great job! Not..

[envaneo]

Aren't Amazon workers part of any Union?

[Drumbones]

If Bezos and Trump are having a rift we better hope HQ2 does not come to Canada or he will be locking up them borders pretty tight. He'd throw free trade out the window just out of spite.

[H.L.]

If Bezos and Trump are having a rift we better hope HQ2 does not come to Canada or he will be locking up them borders pretty tight. He'd throw free trade out the window just out of spite.

It won't come here, bet ya?

[Drumbones]

I know it won't but just joining in the conversation

[envaneo]

If Bezos and Trump are having a rift we better hope HQ2 does not come to Canada or he will be locking up them borders pretty tight. He'd throw free trade out the window just out of spite.

It won't come here, bet ya?

Word: NAFTA.

[H.L.]

If Bezos and Trump are having a rift we better hope HQ2 does not come to Canada or he will be locking up them borders pretty tight. He'd throw free trade out the window just out of spite.

It won't come here, bet ya?

Word: NAFTA.

Even before that, I thought this was much ado about nothing. I never thought it would be in Canada...

[Edmonton PRT]

Amazon announces new warehouse in Ottawa's east end
Retail giant says new distribution centre will create 600 jobs

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...eans-1.4740392

[ctzn-Ed]

With that, i think TO is going to be their new second HQ.

[christopherj]

Distribution and a second HQ aren't even related. Calgary got an Amazon distribution centre last year as well.

[maclac]

With that, i think TO is going to be their new second HQ.

"With that? What? What does an warehouse in Ottawa have to do with an HQ going into TO? Nevermind, that was a rhetorical question, I take that back.

Btw, TO will never in a million years get the new HQ.....

[envaneo]

^ I tend to agree with you but never say never.

[Drumbones]

They are still on the list. From what I’ve been reading Atlanta is most likely. The only way T.O. has a chance is if they fear Trumps policies and want to be outside the US for international business or to make a statement to Trump and his practices.

[Spudly]

Amazon is in advanced talks about putting second headquarters in Northern Virginia, those close to process say

according to the Washington Post
https://outline.com/RpYmW2

[Drumbones]

It’s the DC area. Across the Potomac from Washington city. Well he owns the Post. Should have sold him the Journal I guess. lol

[Spudly]

Now a change of plan...

Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 in Two Locations

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/t...ers-split.html

[envaneo]

Well if anything I have it on good authority that Apple plans on moving northern Alberta HQ.

[Glenco]

Well if anything I have it on good authority that Apple plans on moving northern Alberta HQ.

They have a northern Alberta HQ? News to me.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Well if anything I have it on good authority that Apple plans on moving northern Alberta HQ.

They have a northern Alberta HQ? News to me.

It's in McLennan.

[envaneo]

They have one in Camrose apparently

[Drumbones]

It’s listed. Apple Inc. 6708 48 ave. Camrose AB

[Drumbones]

Must just count money there.

[envaneo]

Could be. Not sure why they'd need to move or where. My source didn't say where.

[RichardS]

I found these comments telling...

(…)"The City of Edmonton can't and shouldn't compete using existing taxpayer dollars ... raised by hard-working entrepreneurs and hard-working residents of our city to advantage one company over all of the other companies who have been paying taxes for a long time," Iveson said Tuesday.

Edmonton may have fared better if the competition was based on each city's strengths, and not incentives, he said. In September of last year, Iveson said the city wouldn't offer major tax concessions as part of its bid(…)

...reminds me of an exchange in the old '80's movie Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield...especially the scene where the professor and Dangerfield's character get into an argument about how the real business world works... I'll leave it to you to guess who is each character in the 2018 Edmonton vs the world's largest online retailer....



https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/tops...cid=spartandhp

[Drumbones]

Did you mean professor Iveson?

[Drumbones]

I’m hearing NY paid a Queens ransom to get them into Queens.

[overoceans]

I found these comments telling...

(…)"The City of Edmonton can't and shouldn't compete using existing taxpayer dollars ... raised by hard-working entrepreneurs and hard-working residents of our city to advantage one company over all of the other companies who have been paying taxes for a long time," Iveson said Tuesday.

Edmonton may have fared better if the competition was based on each city's strengths, and not incentives, he said. In September of last year, Iveson said the city wouldn't offer major tax concessions as part of its bid(…)

...reminds me of an exchange in the old '80's movie Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield...especially the scene where the professor and Dangerfield's character get into an argument about how the real business world works... I'll leave it to you to guess who is each character in the 2018 Edmonton vs the world's largest online retailer....



https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/tops...cid=spartandhp

That scene is pretty unrealistic(even for a comedy), especially the part where the students are listening attentively to Melon's worldly wisdom, and writing down what he says.

Young undergraduates generally dislike mature-students who join the class and harangue the prof with rambling questions and observations. In real life, those students would mostly be rolling their eyes at Melon.

[Edmonton PRT]

But Melon is correct. Every point he made was about the real business world and how things are. Even the concept of building a factory without even an outline of the product or market is questionable, and Melon points out correctly that leasing is far less capital intensive. The Prof suggests a premise that he is starting a company from the ground up. The starting point is not building a factory. The starting point is the product and access to markets. Even before building a factory, the geographic location and access to available labor are imperative elements. Building a factory is mid-way of the process. The Prof is wrong by starting with a 30,000 sq ft factory.

This is the same is the same premise that other eggheads began with, that publicly funded, capital intensive LRT is the only solution to Edmonton's transit needs. That premise is driven by the constraints that the powerful Transit Union monopoly ascribes to any changes to the status quo. Automated LRT like Skytrain is totally out of the question.

The parallels to the scene in the movie sound just like any transit policy discussion. The BRT or Trolley debate are prime examples of eggheads not listening to a dozen experienced Dangerfield stakeholders who want to expand the discussion and look at alternatives or even increasing the scope to make it more viable.

Nope, the eggheads give you preprogrammed talking points and deflections to keep on their agenda of supplying what they want to do, regardless of reality.

[overoceans]

Yes, but assuming, as the script does, that the prof's lecture is typical of what you'd hear in a business class, it's unlikely that most students would enjoy an old guy shouting out of turn to tell everyone how it's all a bunch of BS.

I'm not really commenting about the truth or falsity of that particular professor's ideas, just on the scene's overall portrayal of a university classroom.

[Spudly]

Tensions Over Political Resistance to Amazon Boil Over in New York

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo on Friday ratcheted up the pressure on political opponents of a deal to bring Amazon to New York City, warning that they would face the wrath of voters if the company pulled out and took with it tens of thousands of jobs.

While some local opposition was to be expected, Mr. Cuomo said, the project’s political opponents were being unreasonable. “I’ve never seen a more absurd situation,” the governor said at an unrelated event on Long Island.

Mr. Cuomo’s comments came as tensions over the deal for Amazon to build a vast corporate campus in Queens have been simmering for days, with company executives chafing at what appeared to be new roadblocks to the move.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/n...amazon-hq.html

[Edmonton PRT]

Amazon Out

Amazon says it will not build a headquarters in New York after mounting opposition
-Amazon announced Thursday it will not build its headquarters in New York following local opposition.
-The Washington Post had first reported last week that executives were considering backing out of the planned move to New York.
-New York Governor Andrew Cuomo had warned that the local and regional leaders would have to answer to voters if Amazon did not ultimately bring its 25,000 jobs to the state.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/14/amaz...s-reports.html

Amazon says it will not build a headquarters in New York following mounting opposition, the company said in a statement Thursday.

Amazon said it does not have plans to reopen the search for a replacement location. The company will continue to build its planned headquarters in Virginia and its other planned location in Nashville.

Last week, The Washington Post first reported that Amazon executives were considering backing out of its plans to build an office in New York City. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo had warned at a news conference last week following the report that the local and regional leaders would have to answer to voters if Amazon did not ultimately bring its 25,000 jobs to the state.

Local and state leaders had voiced significant opposition after New York City and state had offered the company performance-based incentives amounting to nearly $3 billion. These leaders were not privy to the details of the deal until after Amazon had made its decision.