Results 1 to 52 of 52

Thread: New proposed revamped ets bus routes

  1. #1
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Edmonton Downtown Core
    Posts
    5,283

    Default New proposed revamped ets bus routes

    Some areas losing bus service altogether like Trumpter and Hawk in the far NW on other side of Henday. No routes shown on new maps. Some without cars will need to sell and move ... one person says if selling moving out of Province ...my realtor said.

    Map of downtown new routes so cluttered can’t tell what’s going on. Is the cross city #9 still there? It does not show up on “cross city bus map”. We used it to get to Whyte at 109th from the downtown core on the 9. With that gone I guess I will need to drive or take an Uber.

  2. #2
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585

    Default

    Admin, there are some posts on other transit threads. Is it possible to move these to this thread? Thanks.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  3. #3

    Default

    City's website has been updated with interactive map, dates for upcoming open houses, and an online survey:

    https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...n=newbusroutes
    www.decl.org

  4. #4

    Default

    Neat tool to visualize the new routes https://platform.remix.com/map/2849ae9

  5. #5

    Default

    Looks to me as though they spent too much effort on catagorizing routes and not enough on making more crosstown routes - There are some great local almost-crosstown routes that should be considered for upgrades - 132ave, 111ave from westmount to Stadium are decent routes that should be treated as frequent crosstown routes not as just local routes.

    And still lots of otherwise useful routes that make too many detours.
    There can only be one.

  6. #6

    Default

    It is a cool tool, thanks for that.
    Last edited by Highlander II; 12-04-2018 at 01:16 PM.
    There can only be one.

  7. #7
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    I've only just started looking at the proposed bus routes on the interactive map, compared to the existing network, so any comments are preliminary.

    But it seems that older areas of the city with a grid street pattern seem to be losing routes and proximity to a bus stop more so than new areas with a loopy street pattern. For example, 115 Avenue in Alberta Avenue, 76 Avenue on the south side, 79 Street between Whyte Avenue and 101 Avenue, 129 Avenue north of the Yellowhead, Ottewell Road, and the communities of Riverdale and Cloverdale will all lose their existing bus service.

  8. #8
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,827

    Default

    I know the City is looking 'future', but that route that runs south on 111th from Century Park to Ellerslie Rd. then goes west to 127th, then north to AHD, east back to 111th then north back to CP, has it running through no populated areas at all. That is, from the western end of MacEwan Rd., 127th and AHD.

    True, the future Ellerslie SLRT station and Park & Ride will be on that route, but in the meantime it's absolutely pointless. The current 39, 347 and 331 cover the populated sections of Ellerslie Rd. and area quite adequately now.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  9. #9
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    1,440

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    I've only just started looking at the proposed bus routes on the interactive map, compared to the existing network, so any comments are preliminary.

    But it seems that older areas of the city with a grid street pattern seem to be losing routes and proximity to a bus stop more so than new areas with a loopy street pattern. For example, 115 Avenue in Alberta Avenue, 76 Avenue on the south side, 79 Street between Whyte Avenue and 101 Avenue, 129 Avenue north of the Yellowhead, Ottewell Road, and the communities of Riverdale and Cloverdale will all lose their existing bus service.
    And my neighbourhood of Athlone

  10. #10
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    ^That's the result of the loss of bus service along 129 Avenue. Plus there will no longer be a bus along 82 Street which is a major north/south arterial.

    The entire area of the north side between 127 Avenue and 137 Avenue west of 66 Street would disproportionately lose bus service and proximity to bus stops compared to anywhere else in the city. It's really hard to figure out what the Administration's thinking is here.

  11. #11

    Default

    I hadn't noticed it earlier but they say up front in the presentation that central areas wanted better frequent/trunk routes and outer areas wanted to maintain coverage services close to their homes. I though that was simply a point of trivia but it seems as though they may be designing the system that way to be the worst of both worlds.

    Whatever they claim to have learned from Jarret Walker (the Consultant that was brought in a few years ago at the start of this whole thing) I don't think they understood.
    There can only be one.

  12. #12

    Default

    I think the system would work better with the addition of two transit centres. One at Londonderry Mall and the other at 82 st & 167 ave. Right now, there's no transit centres between 50th street and 97 street. By comparison, Millwoods has 4, Mill Woods, Lakewood, Millgate and Meadows. That means that in order to provide service in the north central, you either have spoke routes that only go out and back from one centre or have to connect Clareview or Belvedere to Northgate or Eaux Clares.

    With the addition of two more Transit Centres, you would be able to connect more with direct routes and have the neighbourhood routes provide better connections while staying relatively short.

  13. #13

    Default

    There's not even a bus on 82st, what would be the point of an 82 & 167 transit centre? Although there should be a bus on 82st, there's no good reason why there's a 3.3km gap between N-S routes there.



    Londonderry makes a bit more sense since it's a destination for the surrounding neighbourhoods but what it really needs is frequent 66st service, frequent 144 ave service, and frequent 137 ave service with the E-W routes connecting to the N-S routes with simple curbside stops.
    There can only be one.

  14. #14

    Default

    There's all sorts of routes in the Lake Distict (north of 153 ave, south of the Henday and between 97 st and the Manning). They all have to go to Clareview or Eaux Clares/Northgate to make connections to the major routes. A crosstown route from 82/167 down 82 st would make sense. Also, a direct route from Clareview to the new TC and then to Eaux Clares would take care of a lot of the local route connections. Basically extend the new F3 that ends at Stadium and run it all the way north.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 17-04-2018 at 05:36 PM.

  15. #15

    Default

    That extended F3 would be the ideal way to do it, and 66st should have a similar trunk bus. I would love for that bus to be from Coliseum via 118 but with 66st planned for closure at the Yellowhead it will eventually have to be just from belvedere.

    Once you have frequent, straight -line bus routes there's less need for transit centres, you just place stops wherever they cross eachother so that people can transfer easily, with half decent shelters. You can run quite a bit more service if you don't make all buses waste time accessing stations and then sitting there.
    There can only be one.

  16. #16

    Default

    Transit Centres allow people to transfer between multiple routes at one place. For example, you can catch a local route to the TC and from there catch a bus or train to WEM, downtown, UofA or whatever. Or you take one to another transit centre and catch a local to your location.

  17. #17

    Default

    Transit centres also make buses detour off their straight-line routes to make those transfers whether that's needed or not. That can be worthwhile when there's a major service like LRT to connect to and there's no station on the route, but otherwise it's mostly a delay.

    A crosstown route like on 132ave would be much slower for crosstown trips, cost more to operate with more miles and slower speed if it has to detour through very busy 97st traffic to northgate rather than just running it often enough that a curb-side transfer to a very frequent 97st bus is a more cost effective way to service those 132ave -to- northgate and beyond trips.

    And if the whole network is built that way with no big holes between routes (looking at 82st....) then from anywhere to within walking distance of anywhere else with just one transfer.
    There can only be one.

  18. #18
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585

    Default

    I think transit centres could just drop people off and take off, instead of waiting 10 minutes, if it’s a higher frequency route. Have a schedule like the U of A stop for upcoming buses.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  19. #19

    Default

    Local routes would have a regular schedule. Crosstowns would depart every 10 or 15 minutes. Short enough time that you're not 1/2 hour late because of a missed connection.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post

    And if the whole network is built that way with no big holes between routes (looking at 82st....) then from anywhere to within walking distance of anywhere else with just one transfer.
    That would work if the city had a regular street grid. Unfortunately, there's a number of obsticles, not the least of which is the river.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think transit centres could just drop people off and take off, instead of waiting 10 minutes, if it’s a higher frequency route. Have a schedule like the U of A stop for upcoming buses.
    There's still a penalty for accessing the centre. 3-4 minute of getting nowhere feels like a long time, but yes, they should. The problem is that thy use the stations for timing - to ensure that they're not late or early - but there's uncertainty in accessing the station too, waiting for a break in traffic for a left turn into/out of the station.
    There can only be one.

  22. #22
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  23. #23
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  24. #24
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    481

    Default

    These guys...LMAO...Oh wow! Look at all those "Frequent" bus routes. And they run every 15 minutes. Some get down to 10 minutes. But most run at 15 minutes.

    15 minutes is not frequent!

    There seems to be some routes missing from the limited-stop Express routes too.

    Crosstowns - seem to be missing a route along Ellerslie Road connecting Millwoods Transit to Leger via Ellerslie, Heritage Valley, and Ambleside

  25. #25
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Edmonton International Airport is missing from the limited-stop Express Routes.

  26. #26
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    484

    Default

    15 minutes is not frequent service...
    you missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.

  27. #27

    Default

    Nice to see the Castle Downs/University route straightened out. It was direct from the University to 137 ave and then rid a twisting route through the neighbourhoods on both sides of 127 street before getting to the transit centre.

  28. #28
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    11,634

    Default

    Well from what I've been looking on the southside they have come up with some very weird routes. Definitely they are going to make everyone have to get to the Valley line whether they like it or not. Very few ways to now get out of millwoods it seems.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  29. #29
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585

    Default

    Looking at the interactive map, the 15-minute frequency routes seem to go to downtown or university.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  30. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

    Crosstowns - seem to be missing a route along Ellerslie Road connecting Millwoods Transit to Leger via Ellerslie, Heritage Valley, and Ambleside
    Why would this be needed, who would actually ride this bus?

  31. #31
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  32. #32

    Default

    Success: "The old maximum distance to walk to a bus stop will increase from 400 metres to as many as 600 metres or in some rare cases 800 metres."
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  33. #33
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  34. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Success: "The old maximum distance to walk to a bus stop will increase from 400 metres to as many as 600 metres or in some rare cases 800 metres."
    An opportunity for the escooter businesses?

  35. #35
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585

    Default

    Or Con Air?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  36. #36
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  37. #37

    Default

    I wish they had a map view that let you select a transit centre and see all the places you can go from there without a transfer

  38. #38
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585

    Default

    On the older maps, "Jane" showed all the places you could reach in 15, 30, 45 and 60 minutes.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  39. #39
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    My concern with this latest iteration of bus routes remains much the same as the previous ones.

    Older areas of the city with a grid street pattern are losing routes and proximity to a bus stop more so than new areas with a loopy street pattern. For example, 115 Avenue in Alberta Avenue/Parkdale, 76 Avenue on the south side, 129 Avenue north of the Yellowhead, Ottewell Road, and 98 Avenue including Cloverdale will all lose their existing bus service.

    Maybe the somewhat streamlined and frequent crosstown routes will attract a few more casual riders who can't be bothered to check bus schedules or the real-time apps. But I fear it will be at the expense of existing ridership especially those who are older or have mobility limitations.
    Last edited by East McCauley; 10-11-2019 at 11:33 AM.

  40. #40

    Default

    Some of the new routes are just silly. For instance in MillWoods the 509 which is essentially a "Millwoods road" ring road bus that just goes in circles and essentially goes nowhere. The thinking in this route seems to be that theres a demand for this type of thing as if people here want to travel in circles to know clear destination. I think its inane that the route at no point just goes to MWTC. Does it even connect with the Valley Line? Its unclear from the map if it does at any point.

    While the "first and last kilometer feeder routes are somewhat better than before they still feature a lot of deadwood meanders. They should be as direct line as possible to the transit Centers. Calibrated to the fewest blocks possible in getting to the Transit Centers. Case in point the 517 route which instead of taking the closer Hewes way path to the TC instead goes all the way around, off to 66st, circling the whole MWTC development and arriving from the West instead of the East.. Then taking the same silly route back.. May not seem like much but that meander adds about 2-3kms and at least 5minutes to the trip. It also traversers about 5 more traffic lights and intersections by taking the indirect route. For no reason.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-11-2019 at 10:35 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  41. #41

    Default

    the 509 connects at MWTC & the 38th ave stop

    I think the 509 would work better as a figure 8, do the north loop, back to MWTC, do the south loop in the other direction, back to MWTC.

    It's too bad that 28th ave stops at 48 street instead of running through to 34 street as the original LRT ROW intended

    https://platform.remix.com/map/081f7...1,12.939&dir=0
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 10-11-2019 at 12:07 PM.

  42. #42
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    1,440

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    My concern with this latest iteration of bus routes remains much the same as the previous ones.

    Older areas of the city with a grid street pattern are losing routes and proximity to a bus stop more so than new areas with a loopy street pattern. For example, 115 Avenue in Alberta Avenue/Parkdale, 76 Avenue on the south side, 129 Avenue north of the Yellowhead, Ottewell Road, and 98 Avenue including Cloverdale will all lose their existing bus service.

    Maybe the somewhat streamlined and frequent crosstown routes will attract a few more casual riders who can't be bothered to check bus schedules or the real-time apps. But I fear it will be at the expense of existing ridership especially those who are older or have mobility limitations.

    Athlone is losing so much bus service. We will essentially be getting half the amount of bus routes than we had before. As well as increasing the amount of walking distance. I don't mind walking a bit further if it means we actually get frequent bus service but with half the amount of routes I doubt it. So we're getting the worst of both worlds.

  43. #43
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585

    Default

    Does it really make sense to have three bus routes run within six blocks of each other?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  44. #44
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    11,634

    Default

    It's funny and sad that as time goes on the bus routes seem to be getting dumber and dumber. Especially in millwoods there are some natural loops that they could have that could easily connect to the LRT line.

  45. #45
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    6,861

    Default

    If you have trouble walking, these new routes are going to be a real pita. Especially when it's snowed all night.
    Animals are my passion.

  46. #46
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Edmonton (belevedre)
    Posts
    6,542

    Default

    Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge, Ontario used have their own transit years ago but they decided to merge into one transit system and worked well so far, so why can't Edmonton, St Albert and Sherwood Park merge into one transit system?


    so take a look at the system map of Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge.

    https://www.grt.ca/en/schedules-maps...190904-web.pdf
    Last edited by jagators63; 14-11-2019 at 05:17 PM.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  47. #47
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,755

    Default

    How will that benefit ETS?

  48. #48
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    11,585

    Default

    I imagine that ETS could have better bus service in NW Edmonton, sharing with St. Albert Transit. Likewise, Whyte Avenue service between University and Sherwood Park could be augmented, with stops in Old Strathcona and Bonnie Doon.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  49. #49
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,755

    Default

    People can already use the Strathcona Transit at the Edmonton stops now.

  50. #50

    Default

    ^ only certain stops, not all.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  51. #51

    Default

    Edmonton Metro region board is already working on regional transit.... bet we see much more of it over the next decade or so... hopefully.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  52. #52

    Default

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ncil-1.5364216

    Horribly disappointing. 9% mode share for transit puts Edmonton dead last amongst major Canadian cities - approaching US levels even.

    Overall ridership has been more-or-less stagnant for a decade. Even if it's a nationwide trend, it doesn't excuse the abysmal showing.

    Really hope the bus redesign does something to improve the situation.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •