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Thread: Cannabis retail lottery

  1. #1
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    Default Cannabis retail lottery

    Applications for cannabis retail: the lottery
    https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...NE_COL_LAT_LNG

    Not surprisingly, there's a huge clutter of them in and around Whyte Ave.
    Downtown, north-central downtown, 124 St and Stony Plain Rd/149 St have some smaller clusters.

    Keep in mind that this is a lottery so only some of them will be approved.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Sure is interesting to click around and see who has applied. Kerry Rempel (Liquor Depot) has a lot of applications around Whyte Ave, as does Jeffrey Williams.

    Has the city come up with their rules yet in regards to distance away from certain things (parks, libraries, schools)? The last I read they had some distances, but they weren't set in stone. Some of the Whyte locations would be affected by this as there are parks, the library, and schools close to some of the applications.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    There were some interesting mapping errors when this first dropped. 1 Kingsway Mall got set to 1 Kingsway Avenue and I was wondering if the Edmonton Public School Board was exploring some innovative funding strategies.

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    Man, those school bake sales would take on a whole new meaning.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Id assume one will open up on Enoch reserve land beside the casino where they're building the new commercial buildings...

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    Seems like Riverbend and Terwillegar are going to be massively underserved.

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    Great to see so many applicants! Cant wait for #YEG to go green!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Great to see so many applicants! Cant wait for #YEG to go green!
    Should be a constant haze in the river valley.

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    So as far as I can ascertain the roll out of all this is in October? 10bucks/gram prices? Seems kind of high considering legalized marijuana does not have such overhead as confiscated inventory, marijuana busts, shutdown operations and the like. This is like the classic case of a govt sanctioned rollout being more inept than the illegal operation it replaced. How on Earth is it possible that Pot prices increase due to legalization?

    So that the alternative is the grow your own 4 plants provision which would obviously decrease usage costs considerably. heh, I'm still thinking somewhere along the line they still find a trumped up reason to kibosh the grow your own. Although I note the October roll out doesn't allow for any outdoor grows this season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Seems like Riverbend and Terwillegar are going to be massively underserved.
    All a result of the zoning chosen.

    https://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/cannabis.aspx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So as far as I can ascertain the roll out of all this is in October? 10bucks/gram prices? Seems kind of high considering legalized marijuana does not have such overhead as confiscated inventory, marijuana busts, shutdown operations and the like. This is like the classic case of a govt sanctioned rollout being more inept than the illegal operation it replaced. How on Earth is it possible that Pot prices increase due to legalization?

    So that the alternative is the grow your own 4 plants provision which would obviously decrease usage costs considerably. heh, I'm still thinking somewhere along the line they still find a trumped up reason to kibosh the grow your own. Although I note the October roll out doesn't allow for any outdoor grows this season.
    The federal government appears to be very committed to keeping the grow your own provisions. The Senate tried to remove them, or at least move the decision to the provinces, but that amendment was rejected in the final bill. As it stands a province has to allow at least a single plant for personal use. Outside of court challenge (very unlikely) I can't see that changing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So as far as I can ascertain the roll out of all this is in October? 10bucks/gram prices? Seems kind of high considering legalized marijuana does not have such overhead as confiscated inventory, marijuana busts, shutdown operations and the like. This is like the classic case of a govt sanctioned rollout being more inept than the illegal operation it replaced. How on Earth is it possible that Pot prices increase due to legalization?

    So that the alternative is the grow your own 4 plants provision which would obviously decrease usage costs considerably. heh, I'm still thinking somewhere along the line they still find a trumped up reason to kibosh the grow your own. Although I note the October roll out doesn't allow for any outdoor grows this season.
    The federal government appears to be very committed to keeping the grow your own provisions. The Senate tried to remove them, or at least move the decision to the provinces, but that amendment was rejected in the final bill. As it stands a province has to allow at least a single plant for personal use. Outside of court challenge (very unlikely) I can't see that changing.
    I'm aware of all of the above. Afaik the single plant is incorrect. its 4 plants provision and subject to provincial guideline. I still think impediments will be introduced. I have a hard time believing the two following things;

    1) That govt will cash cow legal marijuana to the tune of 10bucks/gram

    2)That the same govts looking for new revenue streams will not see a clear cost in allowing grow your own provision and will find arguments to revoke that.

    3) I'm an absolute cynic.
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    I said single plant as the way the law is worded the provinces can not set a limit lower than a single plant and enforce it. If they try and prohibit home cultivation completely then the federal law of four or less would take precedence, or, as Bill Blair put it, "If you prohibit, you can't regulate."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I said single plant as the way the law is worded the provinces can not set a limit lower than a single plant and enforce it. If they try and prohibit home cultivation completely then the federal law of four or less would take precedence, or, as Bill Blair put it, "If you prohibit, you can't regulate."
    This is not at all what I have heard and as we speak Quebec, and Manitoba are not permitting home cultivation and the feds are not going to challenge the provincial autonomy.

    https://globalnews.ca/video/4285379/...-the-provinces
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I said single plant as the way the law is worded the provinces can not set a limit lower than a single plant and enforce it. If they try and prohibit home cultivation completely then the federal law of four or less would take precedence, or, as Bill Blair put it, "If you prohibit, you can't regulate."
    This is not at all what I have heard and as we speak Quebec, and Manitoba are not permitting home cultivation and the feds are not going to challenge the provincial autonomy.

    https://globalnews.ca/video/4285379/...-the-provinces
    Although she makes it very clear that individuals are free to challenge the provincial law and Blair's statement the federal government is prepared for those challenges seems to indicate they would support them. We'll have to see what happens when someone does as I fully expect someone will.

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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I said single plant as the way the law is worded the provinces can not set a limit lower than a single plant and enforce it. If they try and prohibit home cultivation completely then the federal law of four or less would take precedence, or, as Bill Blair put it, "If you prohibit, you can't regulate."
    This is not at all what I have heard and as we speak Quebec, and Manitoba are not permitting home cultivation and the feds are not going to challenge the provincial autonomy.

    https://globalnews.ca/video/4285379/...-the-provinces
    Although she makes it very clear that individuals are free to challenge the provincial law and Blair's statement the federal government is prepared for those challenges seems to indicate they would support them. We'll have to see what happens when someone does as I fully expect someone will.
    I think most pundits, and the flurry of questions about it have indicated this is a standard liberal fed cop out.

    The fact remains what I stated is legit. That ultimately provinces can decide, they are not mandated by the feds, who have no intent to force provinces to allow public cultivation of Marijuana.

    I think where we can agree is theres likely still to be many challenges in court going everyway.


    If anything bumping legalization back until October on what was a likelihood for years is just allowing more of a timeframe in which some other impediments can occur. Although as noted that is my cynical observation potentially.

    We'll see what transpires. I'm betting a year from now Manitoba and Quebec still don't allow cultivation by individuals.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Okay, so the City is currently saying (not official), 200m from each store, and 200m from schools and public libraries. Also, 100m from any park, health care facility, or recreation facilities. It would be interesting to see those restrictions overlayed onto Whyte Ave; the schools/library/parks could affect some of the applications there.

    I assume that they city will be using the same tools as they have on maps.edmonton.ca for calculating the distances. For example, the top-listed Whyte Ave location (#6) is the Liquor Depot by Shoppers Drug Mart (8015 104 Street NW). That location kills applications at:
    7921 104 Street NW (Alex Russo)
    10445 80 Avenue NW (Kerry Rempel)
    10407 81 Avenue NW (Mark Fitton)
    8126 Gateway Boulevard NW (The Green )
    8114 104 Street NW (Mark Fitton)
    8137 104 Street NW (Kerry Rempel)
    10351A 82 Avenue NW (Jeffrey Williams)
    10401 82 Avenue NW (National Access)
    10403 82 Avenue NW (National Access)
    10408 82 Avenue NW (Sara Doran)
    10414 82 Avenue NW (Todd Pringle)
    Suite 102, 10336 82 Avenue NW (James Ortlieb)
    10145 81 Avenue NW (2083016 Alberta Ltd.)

    Possibly:
    10139 82 Avenue NW (Mark Hope)
    7806 Gateway Boulevard NW (Terry Nyquist)
    Last edited by Gord Lacey; 24-06-2018 at 06:36 PM.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Okay, I decided to go a bit further with this. Using the maps.edmonton.ca website I went and put a 200m radius around the Strathcona Library, Old Scona and Mill Creek school and then I put up 100m radius around the parks. Then I went through the locations along Whyte (and area), and made a list of them in order of their lottery numbers. Then I went through and placed them on the map, removing the ones that were either too close to the Library/Schools or parks. When an application fell out of that area, I marked it on the map and set a 200m radius on it for future applications.

    Here are the approved, and possibly approved pot stores:
    Code:
    6		8015 104 Street NW		-Granted (Kerry Rempel)
    9		10806 82 Avenue NW		-Granted (Mark Fitton)
    26		10134 82 Avenue NW		-Granted (Darren Bondar - Spirit Leaf Inc.)
    105		7806 Gateway Boulevard NW	-Possible (maybe denied due to Application 6)
    165		9629 82 Avenue NW		-Possible (Possible rejection due to Mill Creek School)
    185		7718 104 Street NW 		-Possible (if Application 105 approved, this is denied)
    220		9612 82 Avenue NW		-Possible (if Application 165 approved, this is denied)
    So there can only be 5 approved in the area, as some of the ones on the list would be denied based on some others being approved.

    These are the rejections, and the reasons for it:
    Code:
    33		10459 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Old Scona School, and Application 6)
    56		10013 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Application 26)
    64		10407 81 Avenue NW		-Denied (Application 6)
    66		10401 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Library, Application 6)
    75		10848 82 Avenue NW 		-Denied (Application 9, Garneau Park)
    88		10408 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Library, Application 6, Old Scona School)
    96		10850 82 Avenue NW 		-Denied (Application 9, Garneau Park)
    103		8137 104 Street NW		-Denied (Library, Application 6)
    104		8126 Gateway Boulevard NW	-Denied (Park, Application 6, Application 26)
    108		10431 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Application 6)
    117		10139 82 Avenue NW 		-Denied (Park, Application 26)
    118		10123 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Application 26)
    119		10351A 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Library, Application 6)
    121		10852 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Application 9, Garneau Park)
    136		10516 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Old Scona School)
    158		10403 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Library, Application 6)
    159		8114 104 Street NW		-Denied (Application 6)
    160		7809 109 Street NW		-Denied (Joe Morris Park)
    166		10414 82 Avenue NW		-Denied (Library, Application 6, Old Scona School)
    196		10660 82 Avenue NW 		-Denied (Old Scona School)
    212		10445 80 Avenue NW		-Denied (Application 6)
    222		10336 82 Avenue NW 		-Denied (Library, Application 6)
    226		10511 82 Avenue NW 		-Denied (Old Scona School)
    236		10768 82 Avenue NW 		-Denied (Application 9)
    237		10145 81 Avenue NW		-Denied (Park, Application 6)
    242		7921 104 Street NW		-Denied (Application 6, possibly application 105)
    Took about an hour to generate that data. The distances were calculated based on the city's "show application radius" tool, which I then traced onto the map. It generates the radius from all the edges of the property. Sometimes the property on the city map was quite large (such as with Application 6), but I don't think there were any that were really tight except for the few that I noted under "possible." Of course those applications near the top of the list could still fail the city process, which could open the door up for something lower on the list to be approved. Also, changing the limits on the schools/library could change some of the applications as well (there were a few taken out by being too close to Old Scona school).
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Thank you Gord! And great to see the rules denying a concentration of shops.
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    33 applications in the Whyte Ave area, and probably only 5 approved. That's how it should be. They're nicely spread out, and not near schools. I was also happy to see the little park across from the public washrooms on Whyte didn't really exclude any applications, as they would have been excluded by other applications before them.

    I'm interested in how this affects some of the shops already operating (The Green Room, for example)?
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    I think people are over thinking legalization way too much... canada/alberta will not be any different.

  22. #22

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    Also with Downtown, only location I can see is a for sure thing might be Fire and Flower in The Quest (unless it contravenes condo bylaws). They were selected #25.

    Everything else downtown is either within distance of Centre High, EPL or Beaverhills House Park.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    I think people are over thinking legalization way too much... canada/alberta will not be any different.
    It'll definitely change the financial aspect (business, legitimacy, paying taxes and getting loans and stock), the social or cultural aspect (those "on the fence" folks or those that don't want to deal with the uncertainty of the black market, and ease of access and acceptance) and each province is different in their models for where and how one consumes or purchases.

    For those that would consume, or consume on a weekend basis but want something that is certain and reliable this will go a long way. Many strains and personal reactions to weed and unless you have a high quality connection then you're hooped. To get that connection you need friends that are connected (do drugs). This will be great for business and a new jobs market.
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    I'm ecstatic for the businesses or investors who are cashing in. I've heard of many people I've met or worked with who made millions. It's great seeing regular people making huge $$ instead of the large Corporations.

    I find it interesting people spoke out against the liquor rules limiting distances but are now cheering for the restrictions with weed.

    It seems the average joe thinks legal weed will turn everyone into pot growing potheads over night. The conversation gets weirder on some of my condo boards as property managers keep pushing legalization issues, bylaw changes and general stereo types on how boards will be affected.

    I've even had potential renters bring up the topic of legalization while showing one of my rentals recently. People seem genuinely afraid or confused over what may happen.

    Yet these people wouldn't question more liquor establishments, excessive drinking or general drunk nights that everyone brags about...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post

    3) I'm an absolute cynic.
    This should warm your cynical heart then.

    Private pot shops are wonderful and probably doomed: Neil Macdonald

    I would say I expect he's probably correct about the majority of jurisdictions in Canada where even alcohol is restricted to government run shops. I'm hoping Alberta will maintain it's baby step towards a less paternalistic attitude and not backtrack on the private stores.

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    Thanks Gord for doing this analysis. I'm the ED of the OSBA and found this very helpful.

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    Here's a map based on the status of the applications for Edmonton:
    https://fusiontables.google.com/Data...cddNI#map:id=3

    It's color-coded so you can quickly see what's approved, and what isn't. Some of the statuses have the same icon color.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Neil MacDonald is typical CBC "if that's what Toronto does, then that's what everyone will do - yanno 'cause it IS the centre of the universe.

    When you have an NDP govt. in Alberta that says, yeah, sure liquor seems to be working well in the private sector, why not pot too?" you know there are actual practical, reasonable people around.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Toronto has lots of guns too.

    Then there is prostitution. Big market there. Oldest business in history. Just think of the tax revenue! Worked in the twin cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.


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    Interesting, the only application for a store in Terrwilligar was refused. In fact all but one of the four applications in the southwest was refused.

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  31. #31

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    ^Whereas City of Edmonton put strict rules on where Cannabis Sales could be permitted, it avoids a lot of the discretionary appeals you're seeing in Calgary where all Cannabis Sales are being treated as discretionary uses. Edmonton has so far had 6 appeals, whereas Calgary is dealing with 70.
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    One of the Edmonton appeals is The Green Room, and I can't understand what grounds they're going to appeal on. They're across the street from a "park" (deemed so by the city), and would be within 200m of the Shopper's Drug Mart strip mall location, and the location going into the Adaptabilities building. I'm also curious when the appeal will happen, as they appear to have been rejected in July, but I can't find any evidence of a hearing.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    ^You'll have to check the SDAB agendas. It's possible the hearing from July was postponed.

    They can try to make their case to SDAB on separation distances.
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    Yeah, I checked SDAB, and found no mention of the location, or the name. Beats me.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Great to see so many applicants! Cant wait for #YEG to go green!
    And yet Edmonton has managed to function for 114 years without this legalization......
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Great to see so many applicants! Cant wait for #YEG to go green!
    and think of all the drug addiction and mental health clinics that will be needed!
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    And Edmonton managed to function from 1795 to 1916 without women having the right to vote. What's your point?

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Great to see so many applicants! Cant wait for #YEG to go green!
    and think of all the drug addiction and mental health clinics that will be needed!
    You think we will have more drug addicts after weed is legalized? LOL.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    And Edmonton managed to function from 1795 to 1916 without women having the right to vote. What's your point?
    I guess using your ridiculous example, one could argue Edmonton (and the civilized democratic world) is a much better place since 1917. Get back to me in 114 years and let me know how legalizing cannabis improved the quality of life to the same degree that allowing women a basic human right did. I can wait.....
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  40. #40

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    It's going to keep fewer people from having criminal records or serving time in jail. It will also reduce the money available to the criminal element.

    Just look at the difference between having legal alcohol sales and prohibition.

    "Managing to function" is a ridiculous standard to base something on. The question should be :does this make things better for society as a whole?" and in this case it's entirely likely that the answer will be an unqualified "yes".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Great to see so many applicants! Cant wait for #YEG to go green!
    and think of all the drug addiction and mental health clinics that will be needed!
    It would be odd for us to have a result drastically different from other jurisdictions that have legalized cannabis. In those cases the public health effects have generally been positive or, at the very least, neutral.
    Last edited by Paul Turnbull; 10-10-2018 at 10:48 AM. Reason: grammar

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  42. #42

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    No kidding, one thing weed isn't is hard to acquire. This just moves these transactions away from the black market.

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    It's going to keep fewer people from having criminal records or serving time in jail. It will also reduce the money available to the criminal element.

    Just look at the difference between having legal alcohol sales and prohibition.

    "Managing to function" is a ridiculous standard to base something on. The question should be :does this make things better for society as a whole?" and in this case it's entirely likely that the answer will be an unqualified "yes".
    "Better for society as a whole" That's your opinion and totally unsubstantiated. But oh well. Enjoy.
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    Doctors are already warning, they are seeing far too many children, get this [email protected] out of their way!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    It's going to keep fewer people from having criminal records or serving time in jail. It will also reduce the money available to the criminal element.

    Just look at the difference between having legal alcohol sales and prohibition.

    "Managing to function" is a ridiculous standard to base something on. The question should be :does this make things better for society as a whole?" and in this case it's entirely likely that the answer will be an unqualified "yes".
    "Better for society as a whole" That's your opinion and totally unsubstantiated. But oh well. Enjoy.
    Just like the men who said (and some continue to say) that women voting would lead to destruction of society.

    And BTW, I don't intend to partake at all.

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Doctors are already warning, they are seeing far too many children, get this [email protected] out of their way!!!
    The same way parents have to lock up colourful pills, colourful tide pods, colourful cleaners, and liquor cabinets, any one making pot brownies or candy from legal cannabis oil, or using vaping or cannabis cigarettes, has to lock them up if they have kids around. Even after legalization, I suspect alcohol or prescription ingestion related emergency room visits for children will still far outnumber those related to cannabis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Doctors are already warning, they are seeing far too many children, get this [email protected] out of their way!!!
    The same way parents have to lock up colourful pills, colourful tide pods, colourful cleaners, and liquor cabinets, any one making pot brownies or candy from legal cannabis oil, or using vaping or cannabis cigarettes, has to lock them up if they have kids around. Even after legalization, I suspect alcohol or prescription ingestion related emergency room visits for children will still far outnumber those related to cannabis.

    Children are taking pot laced gummies to school, if you can't protect your own child, what about the others?? The list you have they haven't been taken to school!

  48. #48

    Default

    Status of Cannabis Retail Development Permits in Downtown (Oct. 12), for anyone interested:

    10703 109 St - Withdrawn
    10507 104 Avenue - Refused
    10129 104 St - Refused
    10405 Jasper Ave - Withdrawn
    10275 Jasper Ave - On Hold
    10135 100A St. - Refused
    10888 Jasper Ave - Approved

    https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...-received.aspx
    www.decl.org

  49. #49
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    10,708

    Default

    It seems fairly ridiculous that only a single permit was able to be approved. I don't know specific reasons why the others were refused, too close to parks/schools I would assume, but it's silly that there may only be a single licensed operation in all of downtown for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, if you throw a rock it'll bounce off 5 run-down liquor stores with bars on the windows before it comes to a stop.

  50. #50
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,522

    Default

    Maybe more if you used a rubber ball.

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