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Thread: Edmonton Oilers - 2019 off-season thread

  1. #201
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    I was trying to find some old quotes where PC basically threw Green in front of the bus 30 seconds after he made the Reinhart trade, but found this instead: https://www.coppernblue.com/2017/10/...n-strome-trade

    A couple years old, but still a valid assessment of the Oilers' horrendous professional scouting. The crazy part is that right here and now, 2 years later, Messier and Cichocki remain essentially the only 2 pro scouts in the organization, along with he newly hired director of pro scouting Archie Henderson. That's mind blowing. They haven't had a permanent pro scout in Europe for years, apparently. Paul Messier looks to be a pretty good explanation for the horrendous trades they've made to Eastern Conference teams over the last few years, along with some terrible UFA signings of Eastern players who cratered out West (Mark Fayne, for example). I wonder if Chicago was his to scout, too? Someone needs to explain the Manning trade, anyway.

    I'm sure Holland and Henderson will be cleaning out scouting department, which consisted of all of 2-3 people apparently for most of the last 5 years. Why it was ever left in such a sorry state in the first place, I have no idea.

  2. #202
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    Oilers sign free agent Josh Archibald to a 1 yr deal. Probably very cheap. I hope. Good enough for 10 goals a season?

  3. #203
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    Josh who?

    Okay, doing quick google research - hard working 12-goal scorer (with Arizona - hardly a powerhouse, umm, either).

    @ $1m - might be a solid third or fourth line forward.
    ... gobsmacked

  4. #204
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    Holland has made a handful of reasonable moves to shore up the 3rd & 4th lines this off-season. Unfortunately that is about the last place that needed attention on this roster. As things sit, I'm not sure how the current roster is a significant improvement over the group that limped their way to 2nd last in the west last year.

  5. #205

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    One would hope that shoring up the 3rd and 4th lines can take some of the load off the first 2 lines. That's about all Holland has the room to do, while still living with mistakes of yore. We may have to settle for 10th-last.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    "No room to make a move" seems to be a common defense of Holland's work to date, but it isn't really correct. After the questionable buy-out of Sekera, Holland actually had quite a bit of space to deal with. The Oilers were well over $10M clear of the cap at that point. Holland has wittled that space back down to almost nothing while filling up the bottom of the roster.

  7. #207

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    The alternative would have been to pay the same for fewer bodies, dunno if that would be the better way to go. From the super-cheap seats I'd be more inclined to clear out deadwood and make the most of limited resources, with extra effort in working on the known-good/promising elements. And the coaching and scouting changes. Again, from the super-cheap seats.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    Holland has made a handful of reasonable moves to shore up the 3rd & 4th lines this off-season. Unfortunately that is about the last place that needed attention on this roster. As things sit, I'm not sure how the current roster is a significant improvement over the group that limped their way to 2nd last in the west last year.
    What specifically do you think he should have done, then? I was hoping to see some more movement as well, but they're up against the cap so it wasn't like they could go big game hunting. It would appear that the cost of moving bad contracts is so high that Holland wasn't willing to pay it to make some cap space. See the Marleau trade: he had a single year left at 6m and wasn't even that bad of value at that and it took a 1st and 6/7th round pick to ditch it.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW
    "No room to make a move" seems to be a common defense of Holland's work to date, but it isn't really correct. After the questionable buy-out of Sekera, Holland actually had quite a bit of space to deal with. The Oilers were well over $10M clear of the cap at that point. Holland has wittled that space back down to almost nothing while filling up the bottom of the roster.
    The signings of Chiasson, Khaira, Granlund, Nygaard, Jurco and Archibald totaled about 7.3m, and they have about 4m in space prior to burying Manning's contract. There's room for perhaps one more signing or taking on a bit more salary in a trade. With what they have signed currently, they have a full lineup. If you think that he signed too many cheap players and should have gone after someone in the 4-5m range, how would they have managed to fill out the rest of the lineup without some sort of cap relief?

    Like I said, I agree that I would have liked to have seen some more movement, but not at the expense of mortgaging the future to move out some bad contracts now. I'm not sure what else Holland could have done given the terrible cap structure he inherited. Hopefully he's got one or two trades up his sleeve, but I'm not holding my breath.

  9. #209
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    ^Or the Oilers can trade a bad contract (Lucic!) for another team's bad contract.

  10. #210
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    But again, it's apparent that they will have to throw in picks or prospects with Lucic's contract, even if it's for Neal or Eriksson. That mortgages the future for a very marginal improvement in the near term.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    But again, it's apparent that they will have to throw in picks or prospects with Lucic's contract, even if it's for Neal or Eriksson. That mortgages the future for a very marginal improvement in the near term.
    I'd prefer Neal over Eriksson. I think I'd rather retain some of Lucic's salary rather than throw in picks or propects. Don't know if a trade with Calgary would work though or if Lucic would waive to go there, rather than Van.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    Holland has made a handful of reasonable moves to shore up the 3rd & 4th lines this off-season. Unfortunately that is about the last place that needed attention on this roster. As things sit, I'm not sure how the current roster is a significant improvement over the group that limped their way to 2nd last in the west last year.
    What specifically do you think he should have done, then? I was hoping to see some more movement as well, but they're up against the cap so it wasn't like they could go big game hunting. It would appear that the cost of moving bad contracts is so high that Holland wasn't willing to pay it to make some cap space. See the Marleau trade: he had a single year left at 6m and wasn't even that bad of value at that and it took a 1st and 6/7th round pick to ditch it.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW
    "No room to make a move" seems to be a common defense of Holland's work to date, but it isn't really correct. After the questionable buy-out of Sekera, Holland actually had quite a bit of space to deal with. The Oilers were well over $10M clear of the cap at that point. Holland has wittled that space back down to almost nothing while filling up the bottom of the roster.
    The signings of Chiasson, Khaira, Granlund, Nygaard, Jurco and Archibald totaled about 7.3m, and they have about 4m in space prior to burying Manning's contract. There's room for perhaps one more signing or taking on a bit more salary in a trade. With what they have signed currently, they have a full lineup. If you think that he signed too many cheap players and should have gone after someone in the 4-5m range, how would they have managed to fill out the rest of the lineup without some sort of cap relief?

    Like I said, I agree that I would have liked to have seen some more movement, but not at the expense of mortgaging the future to move out some bad contracts now. I'm not sure what else Holland could have done given the terrible cap structure he inherited. Hopefully he's got one or two trades up his sleeve, but I'm not holding my breath.

    The significant signing you missed listing was Mike Smith. He is accounting for up to $3.75M in space including bonuses. Erasing his contract along with Chiasson would have allowed Holland to pursue a significant upgrade up front, and still fill out the bottom of the roster.

    As far as moving out contracts, I agree it is hard to speculate from the outside what may have been available to Holland, but I find it hard to believe that the Oilers are the only team unable to move suspect contracts for a reasonable price. The instinct is to jump to Lucic since his contract is by far the worst, but he should be put aside as it will be almost impossible to move him going forward. If you look at the balance of the Oilers roster, there are numerous other players with smaller cap hits who probably still have varying degrees of value around the league, but are overpaid for where they fit in with the Oilers and should have been shopped around (looking at Russell, Kassian, Gagner). Aside from Marleau, there have probably been close to a dozen trades this off-season with teams shuffling around money (good and bad) on a smaller scale, this is the area the Oilers should be playing in.

    My overall point is that A) The team is almost certainly going to flush away another season of McDavid/Draisatl and B) If the plan was to hold steady and only make small moves, then buying out Sekera and extending his cap hit over 4 years is totally illogical and makes me think Holland is prone to same unforced errors that have drowned the Oilers for the last decade+.

  13. #213
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    Yeah, I forgot Smith somehow. If you set him and his bonuses aside, you still need to sign a proven back-up for around 2m/year, so you haven't gained much there. And I think Chiasson is good value, so we'll have to disagree there. Even if you set him aside as well, that's still only 3-4m net gain in cap space. Maybe they could have signed someone like Ferland in that scenario, but I'm not sure that he'd be all that big of an upgrade on Chiasson offensive production wise, given the increase in salary.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW
    but I find it hard to believe that the Oilers are the only team unable to move suspect contracts for a reasonable price.
    Who said they are? I said that it's a problem for every team and gave the Leafs/Marleau example. TO paid a high price to ditch that contract, which was only for a year and wasn't even that bad of value.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW
    My overall point is that A) The team is almost certainly going to flush away another season of McDavid/Draisatl and B) If the plan was to hold steady and only make small moves, then buying out Sekera and extending his cap hit over 4 years is totally illogical and makes me think Holland is prone to same unforced errors that have drowned the Oilers for the last decade+.


    I'd agree with you about the Sekera buyout, if another shoe doesn't drop. I wasn't a big fan of it either, for the same reasons.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW
    but I find it hard to believe that the Oilers are the only team unable to move suspect contracts for a reasonable price.
    Who said they are? I said that it's a problem for every team and gave the Leafs/Marleau example. TO paid a high price to ditch that contract, which was only for a year and wasn't even that bad of value.
    If anything Marleau was the outlier.

    The Leafs also moved Nikita Zaitsev's horrendous contract by attaching a surplus bottom-6 winger.
    The Sharks were up tight against the cap with all the moves they have been making, and moved out Justin Braun for two useful picks
    The Hurricanes moved Scott Darling's albatross by including a 6th round pick and agreeing to take a separate overpaid player who will provide more value to them than the Panthers.

    Your opinion on any individual player or trade may vary, but other teams with cap or budget issues have made moves through a variety of different means without mortgaging their future.

  15. #215
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    Too bad the Oilers couldn't make a Lucic/Puljujarvi kind of deal with another team.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  16. #216

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    Nick Kypreos @RealKyper

    Milan Lucic days as a @EdmontonOilers are over. With Lucic waving his no move clause it opens up the trade to @NHLFlames. At this point sounding like a 1 for 1 trade for James Neal. @NHL

    https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status...00383869579266

  17. #217
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    I'll take that trade 1 for 1 in a second.

  18. #218
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    According to Elliotte Friedman, Oilers will probably retain 10% of Lucic's contract.

    Regardless, I agree, I think Lucic is finished and Neal still has a couple of good bounce back years in him.

  19. #219
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    Yeah, sounds like a conditional pick and some salary retention on the Oiler's part. Makes sense to me, Neal's contract is far more buyout friendly and very importantly doesn't have a NMC. We'll have to see what the final deal is, but I honestly don't quite get this from Calgary's perspective. Lucic is radioactive if only because of his NMC and the upcoming expansion draft, let alone the overpay.

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