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Thread: BMO Building (101 St. & 102 Ave.) | Discussion

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Then why aren't you doing it Ken, if it's so common? Obviously it's no big deal to drop 10 or 20 stories on top of a building while people are working and living in it. As a matter of fact, why didn't Stantec or the Marriott do it that way? And hay, if we drop a girder or a bucket of concrete on you, no biggie, right? It's not like that could ever happen. It would suck to be a tenant but who's worried about them?

    Crane line snaps at Kelly Ramsey Tower construction site

    Oct 22, 2015
    A crane line broke at the Kelly Ramsey Tower construction site in downtown Edmonton Thursday, sending a bucket full of concrete crashing to the ground.


    The bucket hit ground in an area fenced off from the road around 2 p.m. but no one was hurt.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...site-1.3284932
    i didn’t say it was common. i did say i have been involved in the planning for doing exactly that.

    as for why they didn’t to a greater degree than they did, you should ask the stantec and marriott developer.

    i also didn’t say it was no big deal. it’s complicated and not inexpensive but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible or not worthwhile under any circumstances.

    as for that girder or bucket of concrete, that’s another straw man - you’d be a lot safer working under those floors with a foot or so of reinforced concrete per floor protecting you than 3/4” of plywood on that sidewalk scaffolding you walk under or the 1/4” fibreglass roof of that bus you’re sitting in at its timing stop. just like you would have been safer in one of the marriott’s ballrooms than across the street on the podium rooftop deck or a west facing office of the edmonton tower when those glass curtainwall units from above got airborne.

    would it suck to be a tenant if something went wrong? it always sucks when anything goes wrong to anybody anywhere. it would suck to be a tenant in a building that burns down while waiting an extra three years to move in to one that meets current codes. good thing it’s late in the year - you’ll be running out of straw soon to build straw men.
    Last edited by kcantor; 14-10-2018 at 06:11 PM.
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  2. #602

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    There's a difference between hoardings around a construction site and an open, operating building with hundreds of people coming and going. And are you suggesting that a load of concrete will somehow fly across the street and hit a neighbouring tower?

    You're right. Construction sites are perfectly safe. A simple sidewalk hoarding can stop anything from a load of concrete to a girder to a collapsing crane. Nothing to worry about.

    Hoardings will stop small items that are dropped. They won't protect you from a fully loaded crane bucket. ~3.5 cubic metres ~= 18,000 pounds or 9 tons. (plus the weight of the bucket itself)

    Anyway, you're right Ken. There's absolutely no reason not to move people into a building that's under construction. My mistake.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 14-10-2018 at 06:12 PM.

  3. #603

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    There's a difference between hoardings around a construction site and an open, operating building with hundreds of people coming and going. And are you suggesting that a load of concrete will somehow fly across the street and hit a neighbouring tower?

    You're right. Construction sites are perfectly safe. A simple sidewalk hoarding can stop anything from a load of concrete to a girder to a collapsing crane. Nothing to worry about.

    Hoardings will stop small items that are dropped. They won't protect you from a fully loaded crane bucket. ~3.5 cubic metres ~= 18,000 pounds or 9 tons. (plus the weight of the bucket itself)

    Anyway, you're right Ken. There's absolutely no reason not to move people into a building that's under construction. My mistake.
    This one brought you into the land of the ignore list. bravo.

  4. #604

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    There's a difference between hoardings around a construction site and an open, operating building with hundreds of people coming and going. And are you suggesting that a load of concrete will somehow fly across the street and hit a neighbouring tower?

    You're right. Construction sites are perfectly safe. A simple sidewalk hoarding can stop anything from a load of concrete to a girder to a collapsing crane. Nothing to worry about.

    Hoardings will stop small items that are dropped. They won't protect you from a fully loaded crane bucket. ~3.5 cubic metres ~= 18,000 pounds or 9 tons. (plus the weight of the bucket itself)

    Anyway, you're right Ken. There's absolutely no reason not to move people into a building that's under construction. My mistake.
    How much construction have you done? I'm still a novice with 10 years under my belt, and your statement , from my perspective, have me just shaking my head right now. You realize if this was to be built in that process, there are also rules that they would have to engaged right? Hoarding, in this instance, would require engineered factors for the reason you mentioned. Are you aware we have to follow certain codes mandated from OHS in certain scenario such as what we talked about? Holy f...!
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  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    There's a difference between hoardings around a construction site and an open, operating building with hundreds of people coming and going. And are you suggesting that a load of concrete will somehow fly across the street and hit a neighbouring tower?

    You're right. Construction sites are perfectly safe. A simple sidewalk hoarding can stop anything from a load of concrete to a girder to a collapsing crane. Nothing to worry about.

    Hoardings will stop small items that are dropped. They won't protect you from a fully loaded crane bucket. ~3.5 cubic metres ~= 18,000 pounds or 9 tons. (plus the weight of the bucket itself)

    Anyway, you're right Ken. There's absolutely no reason not to move people into a building that's under construction. My mistake.
    This ignores the most simple and unarguable fact, there are ways to lift (really; build, your focus is lifting... So let's stay there) things around people safely and it happens everyday. There are infinite lifts done around the construction crews, their lives and we'll being are as valuable as the office worker or general public. Keeping everyone safe needs to be treated with the same rigour. The plumber waiting to ride the hoist to floor 5 is just as absent a participant in the lift of glazing going to floor 10 as the person waking by on the street or the office worker next door. This is ignoring the fact this lift is likely being done from a public street and the exposure is present already.
    If you want to do a staged build, you can have lifting zones if the area permits, road and side walk closure, you can do your lifting on night shift, etc.
    I think everyone would admit it's harder, but it's certainly not impossible, I'm not sure why you are trying to make it apear that is.
    Crawl back from the ledge a bit.
    Last edited by DanC; 14-10-2018 at 07:54 PM.

  6. #606
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    It happens now and again they added a bit to the Telus Toll Building for example, it's more expensive though.
    I do wish they'd add the 3rd tower to Canada Place.

  7. #607
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    Proposed tower on old BMO site to offer residential, hotel units
    Designers also proposed pedway access to City Centre Mall or Kelly Ramsey building


    ďYou have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.Ē - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  8. #608

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    Dear goodness... No, No, and Noooo! Height wise, I like. That looks to be around 200m or taller
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  9. #609

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    ^ What do you hate about it? I quite like it, at first glance anyways. Would have to see more detailed renderings to make a full judgement. I think the podium looks like it needs work, but the rest I don't mind so far.
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  10. #610

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Dear goodness... No, No, and Noooo! Height wise, I like. That looks to be around 200m or taller

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    Not horrible, not great... this is about on par with the middling design of Emerald, unsurprisingly given it's the same architect.

    Was hoping for a less modernist podium.

  12. #612

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    Definitely room for improvement, but I have to say that I like this a lot better than the Falcon towers.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  13. #613

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    Looks like an elongated COE tower with a dash of stantec

  14. #614

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    I think this has potential. I like that it's not a box.

  15. #615

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Looks like an elongated COE tower with a dash of stantec
    t
    It is JWM, Stantec and Falcon all compressed into one. IMO, at a prominent junction, you either go really awsome bold or really elegant simple. In its current form, I don't care for, and I find it boring and disjointed . That podium is the weakest link.
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  16. #616

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    Wish there was some office space included as well. Yea I get the market is saturated, but when you plop a massive tower right in the heart of the CBD and not have office space is kind of strange.

    To me, its kind of like this house:

    https://goo.gl/maps/HMGqFsBn8jq

  17. #617

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    Not bad, honestly. Though it looks like something designed for 2009.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Wish there was some office space included as well. Yea I get the market is saturated, but when you plop a massive tower right in the heart of the CBD and not have office space is kind of strange.

    To me, its kind of like this house:

    https://goo.gl/maps/HMGqFsBn8jq
    i know what you mean - kind of like vancouverís shangri-la or pacific rim or what used to be the mandarin or the hotel georgia donít belong?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  19. #619

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    Wow! I think it looks great! It reminds me of the Shangri La.

  20. #620

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Looks like an elongated COE tower with a dash of stantec
    t
    It is JWM, Stantec and Falcon all compressed into one. IMO, at a prominent junction, you either go really awsome bold or really elegant simple. In its current form, I don't care for, and I find it boring and disjointed . That podium is the weakest link.
    Yes, the podium is quite sad. It sort of looks like a - oh I guess we need to have a podium, slap something on quick. An after thought?

    Could the architect please take a look at a picture of the Tegler building? Feel free to copy it for the podium.

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    Actually, to my non-architect eye, podium reminds me of an Enbridge (nee K-R Building) knock-off.
    ... gobsmacked

  22. #622

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    Finally a tall blue glass box... Not to be too critical but Shangi La in Van is non-noticable from the street / podium, has a lousy cretail interface ith the street (though it's probably due tot he high-end retailers in it) and Westbank and B+H have done and are doing much better work. If it wasn't for the height, Shangri-La would be rather banal. The most distinguishing features on it are the colour-changing cubes on the side and the window washing element on the roof. This might actually do better (on the outside) than Shangri-La.. maybe, but unlikely in the final product. On paper in pretty pictures maybe.
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  23. #623

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    I have very little faith in this architect to deliver something remarkable, even luke warm-arkable. Edmonton and its architecture firms have a long was to go, but so does Edmonton by-laws and design committess.
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  24. #624

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    Also, in the CBC article it cites a design committee member talkign about the grey undersides of the balconies... I see it as a feature, personally, and it provides a neat effect from what I've seen in person. On a recent tour I've also see balconies that transition from red to grey balcony undersides which is really cool when applied in small doses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Finally a tall blue glass box... Not to be too critical but Shangi La in Van is non-noticable from the street / podium, has a lousy cretail interface ith the street (though it's probably due tot he high-end retailers in it) and Westbank and B+H have done and are doing much better work. If it wasn't for the height, Shangri-La would be rather banal. The most distinguishing features on it are the colour-changing cubes on the side and the window washing element on the roof. This might actually do better (on the outside) than Shangri-La.. maybe, but unlikely in the final product. On paper in pretty pictures maybe.
    the initial question and my response was based on use (i.e. no office in the middle of the core), not architecture...
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  26. #626

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Proposed tower on old BMO site to offer residential, hotel units
    Designers also proposed pedway access to City Centre Mall or Kelly Ramsey building


    awful.

    plus the square footage p/ floor on that looks embarrassing.
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  27. #627
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    I like it! Letís start digging!

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    I think it would be great if all of these retail outlets like City Centre, Manulife, Commerce Place and others got together to promote a shopping district like the Core in downtown Calgary. The new BMO Tower will mean another 800 people living downtown.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    Not horrible, not great... this is about on par with the middling design of Emerald, unsurprisingly given it's the same architect.

    Was hoping for a less modernist podium.
    I'd agree with you here.

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    I know it's a block or two away from other residential, but it seems like such a dead zone for condos. Maybe once the ice district is built out, there'll be more life in this block. Balconies just seem weird in the heart of the CBD.

    As for the design, it's derivative of something 15-20 years ago. It's not horrible, but would be forgettable in the skyline - design wise. More detailed renderings would be nice.

  31. #631
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    Depends which way you approach it from. Those balconies would overlook Churchill Square, RHW, and a much calmer 102nd Ave. Not just 101st, the mall, and surrounding towers.

    Basically I'm saying I think it would be fine as long as RHW doesn't continue to be the forgotten pedestrian-focused project.

  32. #632
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    This project is a big mistake on this site - a waste for Edmonton. Greedy developer cares little about protecting site for office development.

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    ^Why would we want this tower to be offices exactly?

  34. #634

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    ^Why would we want this tower to be offices exactly?
    Its practically the core of our commercial center. Grandin IMO should be the up and coming for high rise residential.
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  35. #635

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    Perhaps the developer looked at the office market and decided that it wasn't practical. Just maybe.

    We've got Stantec coming on board. the Kelly-Ramsey/Enbridge building just opened. Would you prefer that the site sit empty for 5-10 years while the office market gets ready?

  36. #636

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    So why the hell did they buy the land considering our office vacancy has been **** for quite some time now.

    edit. some blame should be placed on the city here, zoning should reflect the specific use/occupancy of the building better.
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  37. #637
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    Yeah, keep residential out of the core! I like my downtown like I like my office chair, empty after 5pm!

  38. #638

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    I feel like if anything we need more residents in downtown, not offices..

  39. #639

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    It does seem odd to put residential here, but I think we'll get used to it. There's still plenty of space for new commercial when the time comes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    This project is a big mistake on this site - a waste for Edmonton. Greedy developer cares little about protecting site for office development.
    greedy developer cares little about protecting site for office development???

    you mean the residential developer who bought a site fully zoned for residential development as an outright permitted use???
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  41. #641

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    I think EdmTrekker put on his grumpy pants this morning.

  42. #642

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    Spreading living quarters through out the CBD is a good thing. If we want vibrancy in the core after 5, this is the way to go. If you want a dead core, we follow Calgary. This is Edmonton's advantage over our southern rival in the long run as we have that blank canvas to work with. I support this for I can regconize the importance of bodies lingering on the streets after business hours.
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    If we build residential at the former BMO site, it will be great for the area around Rice Howard Way, and it could mean City Centre Mall is open later Wednesday-Friday. The area between 97 and 103 Street is empty after work hours.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  44. #644

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Spreading living quarters through out the CBD is a good thing. If we want vibrancy in the core after 5, this is the way to go. If you want a dead core, we follow Calgary. This is Edmonton's advantage over our southern rival in the long run as we have that blank canvas to work with. I support this for I can regconize the importance of bodies lingering on the streets after business hours.
    X2

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    Well we could wait for a new office tower to be requested by one of the dozens of corporations that want to establish a major presence in the downtown core. Hmmmmm while we are waiting can someone tell me how long would it be to walk around the earth so I can get started, maybe by the time I get back one of those dozens of companies will have made an announcement?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  46. #646
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    Exactly. Take what we can get. Itíll be alright and a lot of construction jobs to keep the trades going. Plus getting people moving downtown is very important. If someone did happen to want office space in the future there are plenty of spots available for towers left Iíd say. Itís not like weíre hurting for real estate in this burg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RI3S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    ^Why would we want this tower to be offices exactly?
    Its practically the core of our commercial center. Grandin IMO should be the up and coming for high rise residential.
    This sounds like a recipe for a dead, boring downtown. I really don't get the desire for this separating of office and residential.

    I think it works best when there's a nice mix of everything, keeps areas active and vibrant throughout the day. I actually kind of wish there was a bit more office space in Oliver, I was kind of disappointed when I learned they were converting Harley Court to residences.
    Last edited by Aaron_Lloyd; 19-10-2018 at 11:19 AM.

  48. #648

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    I doubt 800 people will ever live here.

    A fair bit of it is empty investment condos, to launder stolen money from abroad.

  49. #649
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    I think you are confused with Hongcouver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I doubt 800 people will ever live here.

    A fair bit of it is empty investment condos, to launder stolen money from abroad.
    your ever present cheerfulness and faith in your fellow humans is as gratifying and rewarding as always.

    iíd love to wish you a happy weekend but i donít know whether it will be too warm or too cold or too wet or too dry for that to be able to happen.
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    Pity the community couldn't come up with the money to help finish the Ukrainian Canada Archives and Museum of Alberta (UCAMA) over on Jasper. It is a gem and tourist attraction in the making.

    I'm told it would take $5 million to complete phase 1, which finishes the 1st floor and basement, allowing the museum to move in. Another $2 million is needed for each of the second, third, and forth floors.

  52. #652

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    This proposal for a tall modern-looking residential building on this site looks and sounds good to me.

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    Yup

  54. #654

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Pity the community couldn't come up with the money to help finish the Ukrainian Canada Archives and Museum of Alberta (UCAMA) over on Jasper. It is a gem and tourist attraction in the making.

    I'm told it would take $5 million to complete phase 1, which finishes the 1st floor and basement, allowing the museum to move in. Another $2 million is needed for each of the second, third, and forth floors.
    Give them the $10 million Katz wants to supply power and washrooms for the plaza and they're only $1 million short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well we could wait for a new office tower to be requested by one of the dozens of corporations that want to establish a major presence in the downtown core. Hmmmmm while we are waiting can someone tell me how long would it be to walk around the earth so I can get started, maybe by the time I get back one of those dozens of companies will have made an announcement?
    Thought this was combined residential / hotel not commercial.

    Regardless though, while the new towers are, yes, stealing customers from other buildings - they're proving to developers who consider us Class B Deadmonton, that they're wrong. I've not much, well none actually, pity for them as their old buildings hollow out.
    ... gobsmacked

  56. #656

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    mmmmm... all your sweet sweet triggerness,

    in all reality. downtown condos are aimed at "Professional White collar"

    let me know when a family of 4 want to move downtown with all of its family friendly amenities!

    Drop the prices 50k and maybe downtown will become attractive for average people, all you people preach that these developers are changing downtown - yet stantec is only 30% sold. Their own greed is hindering downtowns successful densification.
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    Amen

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