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Thread: Jasper Avenue Makeover

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    Exclamation Jasper Avenue Makeover

    I remember reading that Jasper Avenue will be getting a makeover soon, just cant remember when?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bray88 View Post
    I remember reading that Jasper Avenue will be getting a makeover soon, just cant remember when?
    Can't recall either but it cannot come soon enough. Oh for the heady days when Jasper was like a promenade with cafes, upscale lounges, book stores, art stores, patios...I miss it and wish we could take back the Avenue!


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    Definitely will be nice to see a makeover happen on Jasper ave.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    With the way the markets have been going these last few weeks, I doubt the Jasper Ave makeover is likely to happen anytime soon. Money is about to get VERY tight for the City of Edmonton. I wouldn't doubt if we see many important projects canceled or put on hold.

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    ^ So business as usual for the CoE...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anony Mous View Post

    Can't recall either but it cannot come soon enough. Oh for the heady days when Jasper was like a promenade with cafes, upscale lounges, book stores, art stores, patios...I miss it and wish we could take back the Avenue!
    Unfortunately I don' think that will happen given the rise in the number of bars on Jasper Ave. And not the nice kinds of bars, the Oil City Roadhouse kind. How does City Hall think that they can turn Jasper into an trendy and sophisticated place to go when you have a bunch of scuzzy bars setting up shop, turning it into a nighttime Whyte Ave 2?

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    Well like it or not if you want to have life on Jasper ave past a certain time at night you need to have at least a few night clubs. Now I think that maybe one or two more night clubs might be ok somewhere further east along Jasper Ave. Add to that a 3 or 4 quality restaurants as well as a couple nice cafe's and that should give some additional life to the avenue.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    there is an RFP out there if i recall for this...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well like it or not if you want to have life on Jasper ave past a certain time at night you need to have at least a few night clubs. Now I think that maybe one or two more night clubs might be ok somewhere further east along Jasper Ave. Add to that a 3 or 4 quality restaurants as well as a couple nice cafe's and that should give some additional life to the avenue.
    Right, there would have to be a mixture of bars, lounges, restaurants, preferably high-end facilities. I read a similar suggestion by the St. Albert city council wanting to revamp the "downtown" core and introduce more lounges, restaurants etc. to bring the people back into the city for its nightlife rather than it mostly being north of the trail.

    Jasper Avenue is the main street in our city, maybe it needs to be partially pedestrianized; not sure how that could be done, but maybe we need to get rid of vehicles just like they did in Calgary with a very successful Stephen Avenue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Anony Mous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well like it or not if you want to have life on Jasper ave past a certain time at night you need to have at least a few night clubs. Now I think that maybe one or two more night clubs might be ok somewhere further east along Jasper Ave. Add to that a 3 or 4 quality restaurants as well as a couple nice cafe's and that should give some additional life to the avenue.
    Right, there would have to be a mixture of bars, lounges, restaurants, preferably high-end facilities. I read a similar suggestion by the St. Albert city council wanting to revamp the "downtown" core and introduce more lounges, restaurants etc. to bring the people back into the city for its nightlife rather than it mostly being north of the trail.

    Jasper Avenue is the main street in our city, maybe it needs to be partially pedestrianized; not sure how that could be done, but maybe we need to get rid of vehicles just like they did in Calgary with a very successful Stephen Avenue.
    Ummm, absolutely not... not on Jasper Avenue at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anony Mous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well like it or not if you want to have life on Jasper ave past a certain time at night you need to have at least a few night clubs. Now I think that maybe one or two more night clubs might be ok somewhere further east along Jasper Ave. Add to that a 3 or 4 quality restaurants as well as a couple nice cafe's and that should give some additional life to the avenue.
    Right, there would have to be a mixture of bars, lounges, restaurants, preferably high-end facilities. I read a similar suggestion by the St. Albert city council wanting to revamp the "downtown" core and introduce more lounges, restaurants etc. to bring the people back into the city for its nightlife rather than it mostly being north of the trail.

    Jasper Avenue is the main street in our city, maybe it needs to be partially pedestrianized; not sure how that could be done, but maybe we need to get rid of vehicles just like they did in Calgary with a very successful Stephen Avenue.
    Ummm, absolutely not... not on Jasper Avenue at least.
    "Absolutely not...." what are you referring to?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Anony Mous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anony Mous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well like it or not if you want to have life on Jasper ave past a certain time at night you need to have at least a few night clubs. Now I think that maybe one or two more night clubs might be ok somewhere further east along Jasper Ave. Add to that a 3 or 4 quality restaurants as well as a couple nice cafe's and that should give some additional life to the avenue.
    Right, there would have to be a mixture of bars, lounges, restaurants, preferably high-end facilities. I read a similar suggestion by the St. Albert city council wanting to revamp the "downtown" core and introduce more lounges, restaurants etc. to bring the people back into the city for its nightlife rather than it mostly being north of the trail.

    Jasper Avenue is the main street in our city, maybe it needs to be partially pedestrianized; not sure how that could be done, but maybe we need to get rid of vehicles just like they did in Calgary with a very successful Stephen Avenue.
    Ummm, absolutely not... not on Jasper Avenue at least.
    "Absolutely not...." what are you referring to?
    Turning Jasper Ave into a pedestrian only zone... not a good idea. If this is going to happen anywhere in our core, it'll happen around Churchill Sq, RHW, and 104 St, but not Jasper Ave.
    Last edited by etownboarder; 11-10-2008 at 10:51 AM.

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    ^ Absolutely not to turning Jasper into a pedestrian only strip. Or at least that's my interpretation of etownboarder's response...To which I fully agree.
    Pedestrian malls can be done well and I wouldn't mind a Stephen Ave or Sparks Street of our own, but I think that sort of development would be better suited to Rice Howard Way or maybe 104st.
    Jasper on the other hand, should be more analogous to a st. Catharines or a Yonge Street in my mind. That is to say, a major street that has lots of vehicular and pedestrian activity, but isn't necessarily the best street in town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    ^ Absolutely not to turning Jasper into a pedestrian only strip. Or at least that's my interpretation of etownboarder's response...To which I fully agree.
    Pedestrian malls can be done well and I wouldn't mind a Stephen Ave or Sparks Street of our own, but I think that sort of development would be better suited to Rice Howard Way or maybe 104st.
    Jasper on the other hand, should be more analogous to a st. Catharines or a Yonge Street in my mind. That is to say, a major street that has lots of vehicular and pedestrian activity, but isn't necessarily the best street in town.
    Exactly...

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    With the way the markets have been going these last few weeks, I doubt the Jasper Ave makeover is likely to happen anytime soon. Money is about to get VERY tight for the City of Edmonton. I wouldn't doubt if we see many important projects canceled or put on hold.
    No. Not really, public projects are typically used to stimulate economic growth when times are slow. Yes, cash is tight and credit is going to be tough to recieve, but we're fortunate to live in a country that has a balanced budget, low debt and a province that is performing well economically.

    There was an RFP that closed back in early September to create a new urban design and public realm concept for Jasper from 97th Street to 111 Street. It was slightly convoluted as the overall budget was low. I have a feeling that it will be 'reissued' properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well like it or not if you want to have life on Jasper ave past a certain time at night you need to have at least a few night clubs. Now I think that maybe one or two more night clubs might be ok somewhere further east along Jasper Ave. Add to that a 3 or 4 quality restaurants as well as a couple nice cafe's and that should give some additional life to the avenue.
    I didn't say that there should be no bars on Jasper Ave., as I'm no Prohibition Patty. What I meant was scuzzy bars. I have no problem with higher-end bars and lounges such as The Bank or Liquid Lounge, it's the ones such as Oil City that keep non-bar people (especially pedestrians) away from certain parts of the downtown core. It's one thing to make downtown a hip trendy place to go, it's another to turn it into another wild drinking destination that will prevent some people from going there.

    And as for making Jasper Ave. a pedestrian-only street, that's not a good idea. Downtown Edmonton's east-west traffic corridors are already limited to two or three continuous roads (104th, Jasper, and 100th), and removing one of them would make driving downtown more of a nightmare than it already is.
    Last edited by Megatron; 11-10-2008 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Expanding my thought

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    "Keeping people away", who? While I agree there have been some issues associated with some bars on Jasper (Fox, Oil City), there has been a significant increase in police presence on the strip and many bar owners are working with the EPS to curb / prevent the violence (aka stupidity) that was becoming an issue. I have no issue with Oil City as I've been there a few times and had a great time.

    Jasper Ave as pedestrian only.....HAHAHAHAHA. Worst idea I've heard to date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Jasper Ave as pedestrian only.....HAHAHAHAHA. Worst idea I've heard to date.
    My thoughts exactly... but be careful, apparently I already offended Anony Mous when I commented on one of his/her other ridiculous ideas on another thread. Apparently Anony Mous will never post again on C2E. Oh well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anony Mous View Post

    Can't recall either but it cannot come soon enough. Oh for the heady days when Jasper was like a promenade with cafes, upscale lounges, book stores, art stores, patios...I miss it and wish we could take back the Avenue!
    Unfortunately I don' think that will happen given the rise in the number of bars on Jasper Ave. And not the nice kinds of bars, the Oil City Roadhouse kind. How does City Hall think that they can turn Jasper into an trendy and sophisticated place to go when you have a bunch of scuzzy bars setting up shop, turning it into a nighttime Whyte Ave 2?
    I agree with you that we have to take steps to make sure that Jasper doesn't turn in to a strip of seedy bars. But I take issue with you claiming that that is what it is RIGHT NOW. Right now, there's not a whole heck of a lot of anything along Jasper ave East of 109th street. There's entire blocks with little to nothing facing Jasper Ave. And after 6pm, most of what little there is closes. So yes maybe you get the impression that a couple bad bars are taking over the place, but there's what two or three that have caused problems (Oil City, Fox (which has been there forever), and maybe The Bank)? A total of maybe a hundred feet of Jasper Ave frontage are the "scuzzy" bars that you have a problem with.

    I also take issue with your comparison to Whyte Ave. We'd be so lucky for Jasper to have anything resembling the mix of commercial enterprises that Whyte has.

    The problem with Jasper Ave east of 109th is that it's mostly empty after 6pm, that we don't have any nice lounges, retail, cafes, art stores, patios etc save for a very limited selection. It's NOT a problem of too many bars, because there's less than a handful of them.

    Honestly, the people who I hear complaining the most about the "bar problem" on Jasper are more often than not the people that don't come to Jasper in the evening or weekend anyway. Those of us that live on or just off Jasper are more than happy to have more people down here, even if a very small percentage of those people can occasionally cause problems. The more people that come down here, the better chance we have of Jasper ave filling in East of 109th with places that don't just cater to the 9-5 crowd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Megatron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anony Mous View Post

    Can't recall either but it cannot come soon enough. Oh for the heady days when Jasper was like a promenade with cafes, upscale lounges, book stores, art stores, patios...I miss it and wish we could take back the Avenue!
    Unfortunately I don' think that will happen given the rise in the number of bars on Jasper Ave. And not the nice kinds of bars, the Oil City Roadhouse kind. How does City Hall think that they can turn Jasper into an trendy and sophisticated place to go when you have a bunch of scuzzy bars setting up shop, turning it into a nighttime Whyte Ave 2?
    I agree with you that we have to take steps to make sure that Jasper doesn't turn in to a strip of seedy bars. But I take issue with you claiming that that is what it is RIGHT NOW. Right now, there's not a whole heck of a lot of anything along Jasper ave East of 109th street. There's entire blocks with little to nothing facing Jasper Ave. And after 6pm, most of what little there is closes. So yes maybe you get the impression that a couple bad bars are taking over the place, but there's what two or three that have caused problems (Oil City, Fox (which has been there forever), and maybe The Bank)? A total of maybe a hundred feet of Jasper Ave frontage are the "scuzzy" bars that you have a problem with.

    I also take issue with your comparison to Whyte Ave. We'd be so lucky for Jasper to have anything resembling the mix of commercial enterprises that Whyte has.

    The problem with Jasper Ave east of 109th is that it's mostly empty after 6pm, that we don't have any nice lounges, retail, cafes, art stores, patios etc save for a very limited selection. It's NOT a problem of too many bars, because there's less than a handful of them.

    Honestly, the people who I hear complaining the most about the "bar problem" on Jasper are more often than not the people that don't come to Jasper in the evening or weekend anyway. Those of us that live on or just off Jasper are more than happy to have more people down here, even if a very small percentage of those people can occasionally cause problems. The more people that come down here, the better chance we have of Jasper ave filling in East of 109th with places that don't just cater to the 9-5 crowd.
    I never said that that was Jasper Ave's problem right now. I was referring to what could happen if the city isn't careful and allowed the quality of the bars on it to slip. I probably wasn't careful enough with the words I used, so as it appeared that I was overgeneralizing and indicating that that was the current problem.

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    On the idea of creating a pedestrian dominated roadway, I agree that I wouldn't want to see Jasper ave turned to that, we need to add activity to the road not lessen it.

    104 st. I think would be a perfect road to do something like that on. The pedestrian walk could extend from Jasper Ave all the way north to 104 Ave. That street is already been taking shape with all the work close to Jasper Ave and I think if the rest of the road can be made similar it will make a great small pedestrian oriented street. With that said though the road should only be closed a certain times of the day, not permanantly.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    jasper was hopping last night
    Last edited by IanO; 12-10-2008 at 02:52 PM.
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    hoping for what?

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    haha my bad...
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    While not really part of the makeover, I did see a little piece of good news for Jasper Ave today. A "Funky Pickle - Coming Soon" sign was posted on the window of the small space right beside the Paramount (a donair shop recently vacated that space). It looks like there is a fair amount of interior reno work going on in there (AJ Interiors also has a sign on the window). While not huge news, every little bit helps.

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    ^ Sweeeeet.
    Strathcona City Separatist

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    And that likely means that the rumoured Procura tower is onhold indefinitely? Not a bad thing. I'd much rather see the few retail spaces that we have get used, than watch them sit empty for fear of a possible demolition order that may never come.

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    It doesn't mean it is on hold indefinitely... just look at the new bar that is supposed to open up where the Globe is now. Who's to say they won't be forced to close in a year?

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    ^ I'm just glad that the Hat and Funky Pickle are confident enough to set up shop, and that the demo clause bogeyman has been lifted (even if it might technically still be in place).

    Now if only something would set up in the Adecco space on the corner and make use of the nice big windows...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JnO 1 View Post
    While not really part of the makeover, I did see a little piece of good news for Jasper Ave today. A "Funky Pickle - Coming Soon" sign was posted on the window of the small space right beside the Paramount (a donair shop recently vacated that space). It looks like there is a fair amount of interior reno work going on in there (AJ Interiors also has a sign on the window). While not huge news, every little bit helps.
    http://connect2edmonton.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=10320
    ----

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    The RFP was was issued in the fall and the winning bidder was Urban Strategies from Toronto with Phillips Farevaag Smallenberg from Vancouver and ISL Engineering of Edmonton. All the other Alberta companies bid way too high, or were not qualified.

    The public process will be launched with the usual series of workshops in the Spring of this year. Some of the budget for the construction will be secured as a requirement of the replacement of the roof/road structure for Central Station, which is deteriorating as are the streetscape elements. Maybe it could get some of the new piles of Federal infrastructure/stimulus funding?

    Here is a great example of a simiallr project currently underway for Granville Street in Vancouver: http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/current...play/index.htm I note that it did not cots 100s of millions of dollars ($44 million, 50-50 cost shared with the City and Translink). Unfortunately the construction, design and engineering prices quoted to the City in the recent past in Edmonton have been so out of control that the City has taken their cash elsewhere and it is going much further.

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    Great news! Landscape Architecture firm, Phillips Farevaag Smallenberg are one of the best. Their selection indicates to me that Jasper Ave's in for a great makeover.
    In favour of Architecture that is of our time and place.

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    I am really glad to hear this... please let us know once more information becomes available. I think most of us on C2E see this as a valuable project for Edmonton.

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    Now my question would be is if Jasper ave get's a facelife, how far will this facelift extend east and west? All the way to 124 st west? Past 95 st east?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    97-109st is the redo is it not?
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    I'm sure once the Quarters starts rolling, work will be done on the eastern part of Jasper Ave.

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    If they started at 95 st. it would hopefully tie the Quarters even better to the rest of downtown.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    The Quarters includes 92-97st, the Jasper Ave proposal runs 97-109st. No missing pieces

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    ^ just the other 15 blocks of Jasper Avenue. But why would the city bother with that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    97-109st is the redo is it not?
    Actually the west limit is 111 Street (Downtown ARP Bndy) I believe.
    Last edited by ChrisD; 03-02-2009 at 07:32 PM.

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    ^ That's the official border, but improvements (christmas lights, light standards, fancy sidewalks, etc) don't currently extend beyond 109st.

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    I'm lucky enough to be on this project as part of the consultant team. We'll be back in Edmonton at the end of April/early May for a presentation/workshop/open houses.

    It's a very exciting project!

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    Any other information you can share with us?

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    if you can elaborate, what aspect are you part of the consultant team Bunk?...
    In favour of Architecture that is of our time and place.

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    Not much to share yet. The project is still in its early phases, with analysis and so forth. Things will really move forward come the major workshop sessions at the end of this month. Also be sure to attend open houses to give your feedback and contribute to the process! This discussion forum is also a useful tool for putting forth your ideas.

    I work for Urban Strategies, the lead consultant.

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    ^Thanks!
    In favour of Architecture that is of our time and place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunk View Post
    Not much to share yet. The project is still in its early phases, with analysis and so forth. Things will really move forward come the major workshop sessions at the end of this month. Also be sure to attend open houses to give your feedback and contribute to the process! This discussion forum is also a useful tool for putting forth your ideas.

    I work for Urban Strategies, the lead consultant.
    You better be marking down wind proof garbage cans as job #1.
    I kid, but seriously, you better.

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    Jim Taylor of the DBA game and talked to the Downtown Edmonton Community League's AGM and talked a bit about the Jasper Ave Makeover. The city is spending $750,000 on engineering and design, and it has to be done because Central Station LRT roof needs repair. The makeover will start on those two blocks, and move themselves west in stages. Central Station LRT roof repair is starting this year I believe...
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    How many years is the entire thing expected to take?

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    ^knowing Edmonton, 40, or approximately when our city might have an LRT system rather than a line.
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    ^you're particularly negative today :P. I suspect it will take 4 or 5 years atleast. If they get some kind of special infrastructure money, or Council wants to speed things up, it could be faster. Who knows at this point. Priority one - stop Central LRT station roof from caving in haha!
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    I think it'll be aloooot sooner than we think.

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    I hope so... at least with the Central LRT station roof refurbishing, the project is moving forward, even if it's only bit by bit and not all at once.

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    ^ Part of the RFP included the detailed design drawings portion for the block between Central Station given that it is going to be reno'd. This way construction can occur in tandem.

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    Now speaking of Central station, I wonder if there will be any redesign/renovation of the station itself.

    Are there any renderings available showing a new and improved Jasper ave?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    went to the update session last night...

    Hits:

    -5 lanes (down from 7 now)
    -almost double the sidewalk space
    -moving those green shelters (they are mostly for utilities) off of jasper to the side streets
    -moving corona LRT from the north side of jasper to 108st beside the 10830 building
    -retaining or expanding parking meters on jasper for non peak times
    -CP rail bridge on 110st for pedestrians/bikes
    -treed gateways at 97st and 110-111st

    Misses:

    - no bike lane
    - no left turns n/s on 109st @ jasper (seriously wtf)
    - no diagonal crosswalks (101/105/109)
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  58. #58

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    I really like this

    -CP rail bridge on 110st for pedestrians/bikes
    But I wonder how this will be achieved... isn't the land on the south side of Jasper ave already sold to developers? (Azure -> Procura...)

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    ^nope, right of way retained i believe.
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    Wouldn't it be hooking into the bike path that's between 109 and 110, then scootching over in the park to be aligned with 110 for the bridge?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Misses:

    - no bike lane
    - no left turns n/s on 109st @ jasper (seriously wtf)
    - no diagonal crosswalks (101/105/109)
    Yea, that one is going to cause some problems.
    Last edited by etownboarder; 24-06-2009 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Wouldn't it be hooking into the bike path that's between 109 and 110, then scootching over in the park to be aligned with 110 for the bridge?
    yup
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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Misses:

    - no bike lane
    - no left turns n/s on 109st @ jasper (seriously wtf)
    - no diagonal crosswalks (101/105/109)
    Yea, that ones is going to cause some problems.
    i think this was just an oversight on the printed material to be honest... no way you could miss that but man would it mess things up
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Misses:

    - no bike lane
    - no left turns n/s on 109st @ jasper (seriously wtf)
    - no diagonal crosswalks (101/105/109)
    Yea, that ones is going to cause some problems.
    Is it rush hour only? Did they say how traffic will be handled? through 100 ave or 102 ave? I suppose with all that wLRT development, 102 may be out of the question and 100n is already packed. I suppose the cars can go south on 106 street to 97 ave, but in rush hour that street is also packed. That's a head-scratcher. I guess they could let people fend for themselves and consider using public transit. Will there be a left turn permission for busses and taxis at least?

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    ^i think it was simply an oversight on their plans...
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    OR three rights make a left

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    -moving those green shelters (they are mostly for utilities) off of jasper to the side streets
    The green shelter in front of Commerce Place was taken out a couple of months ago. What a great difference it's made for visibility and walkability!

    -moving corona LRT from the north side of jasper to 108st beside the 10830 building
    Thank God for that. That LRT entrance in front of Oil City is a real bottleneck.

    -CP rail bridge on 110st for pedestrians/bikes
    So they took out the previous rail bridge and now they want to rebuild it? Why take it out in the first place? Brilliant city I live in...

    - no left turns n/s on 109st @ jasper (seriously wtf)
    The traffic planners obviously haven't seen this intersection on a weekend night.

    - no diagonal crosswalks (101/105/109)
    Be nice to have, but this would work even better at Churchill Square by CBC.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    "CP rail bridge on 110st for pedestrians/bikes"

    Perhaps also for SeLRT crossing coming over the high level.

  69. #69

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    Wasn't the Ped Bridge supposed to be on 100st, connecting the two river ralley trail systems on either side of the unfriendly road

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    -CP rail bridge on 110st for pedestrians/bikes
    So they took out the previous rail bridge and now they want to rebuild it? Why take it out in the first place? Brilliant city I live in...
    They took out a massive, ugly rail bridge with killer pillars in the middle of the road. I would think they will put in something just a tad more elegant and safer... I would love (and expect) to see a span with no pillars in the middle of the road.

  71. #71

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    They'll pull the old bridge out of storage. No way the truck-testicle crowd is gonna let the city spend money on a pedestrian bridge for downtowners when there's potholes/curvy river valley roads/bridge repairs/snow plowing/etc gnawing at them.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  72. #72

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    I'm sorry.. what are we talking about as there has never been a bridge on 110 st for as long as I have lived in Edmonton.

    I am lost and kinda confused.

  73. #73

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    ^^^There was train bridge over Jasper Ave on 110th Street that was removed in the early 90s.

    That is why Jasper Ave dips down at that point. In this plan it looks like they are putting a bridge back in that fits in nicer with its surroundings and can serve a useful purpose.

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    from Edm Radial Rail looking west from 109 street see the old station ?
    http://www.edmonton-radial-railway.a...images/019.jpg
    Trolley and a street car !
    http://www.edmonton-radial-railway.a...images/030.jpg

  75. #75

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    Hmmm.. I didn't excpect that to be proposed.

    I can't say I see the need for it, but it could look very nice.

    I actualy thought that sort of thing might be used to connect LRT with the HLB right of way to Old Strathcona.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 24-06-2009 at 05:00 PM.

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    They'll pull the old bridge out of storage. No way the truck-testicle crowd is gonna let the city spend money on a pedestrian bridge for downtowners when there's potholes/curvy river valley roads/bridge repairs/snow plowing/etc gnawing at them.
    lol... they should pull the rathole out of storage too... I miss that thing...

  77. #77

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    o please don't.. I do remeber that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    went to the update session last night...

    Hits:

    -5 lanes (down from 7 now)
    -almost double the sidewalk space
    -moving those green shelters (they are mostly for utilities) off of jasper to the side streets
    -moving corona LRT from the north side of jasper to 108st beside the 10830 building
    -retaining or expanding parking meters on jasper for non peak times
    -CP rail bridge on 110st for pedestrians/bikes
    -treed gateways at 97st and 110-111st

    Misses:

    - no bike lane
    - no left turns n/s on 109st @ jasper (seriously wtf)
    - no diagonal crosswalks (101/105/109)
    Here's more...

    They also talked about opening up many of the LRT portals.
    Central Station will be one of the first to recieve a major overhaul.
    Central medians on Jasper are gone.
    Recommend changes to the bylaws that restrict patios and outdoor retail space onto the public sidewalks.
    Utilize lanes as mews where possible to facilitate additional pedestrian movement
    Focus on the side streets and how they integrate with Jasper Ave.
    Recommends extending the 104 Street promenade further south and improve the connection down the valley and into Rossdale.

    They also stated that as Edmonton is expected to grow by 400,000 people in 30-years, if 6% of that growth is captured in the downtown, that is equivalent to x75 20 storey buildings. If 10% is captured, it is equivalent to x125 20-storey buildings. Interesting figure to ponder.

    I personally don't believe that they will restrict turning movements at Jasper and 109 Street.

    Coun. Henderson asked 2 important questions: 1) that bicycle lanes be seriously considered in this plan and 2) they focus on nightscaping in consideration of the longer, dark winter days.
    Last edited by ChrisD; 24-06-2009 at 10:36 PM.

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    When will all this info be up on the City website

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Coun. Henderson asked 2 important questions: 1) that bicycle lanes be seriously considered in this plan and 2) they focus on nightscaping in consideration of the longer, dark winter days.
    Nice to hear Ben taking some initiative. I was happy when he was elected, but got worried after the first few months when he seemed to be against a lot of fairly progressive initiatives. He seems to be finding his groove now, though.
    Strathcona City Separatist

  81. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Misses:

    - no bike lane
    - no left turns n/s on 109st @ jasper (seriously wtf)
    - no diagonal crosswalks (101/105/109)
    Yea, that ones is going to cause some problems.
    i think this was just an oversight on the printed material to be honest... no way you could miss that but man would it mess things up
    There will be a left turn lane at 109.. The drawings shown were working theories and are not perfect yet, the details are still coming forward and there are still lots of room for suggestions and refinements.

    bikes are shown as accommodated through wider curb lanes.
    Last edited by Bunk; 29-06-2009 at 07:11 PM.

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    ^ The problem with not marking a bike lane is that drivers don't know any better if they aren't given some kind of visual indicator that the extra width along the curb is set aside for bikes. If the city is serious about helping cyclists do their thing safely, and encourage others to commute by bike as well, then marked bike lanes are a MUST.

    Adding marked bikes lanes across this city is part of the new Bicycle Transportation Plan. It would seem foolish to me to do a total rebuild of Jasper Ave. and not have those plans meet up flush and level with the BTP's call for marked bike lanes.

    BTW, thanks for participating in our forum, Bunk, I'm pleased to see you gathering and using our feedback in your designs.
    Strathcona City Separatist

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    Is it going to be an actual dedicated lane though? Or will it just be a traffic lane with bike symbols painted on it (shared by bikes and vehicles) like the ones on 112 Street between HUB Mall and College Plaza?

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    More than likely it will be shared.

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    -moving corona LRT from the north side of jasper to 108st beside the 10830 building
    Thank God for that. That LRT entrance in front of Oil City is a real bottleneck.
    The fat chics outside of Oil City are an even bigger bottleneck. Throw in the regular Fri/Sat night paddy-wagon to haul away idiots and you have yourself a clusterf*ck
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    I fully suport Chmilz's point .. BUt all types of people create the bottle neck, not just the fat ones.

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    Ahhh, ok....really...

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    I bike, but think bikes should be given dedicated bikeways though the alleys and mews they want to create. The alleys and mews should be opened for "business" allowing restros, shops and other places to grow.

    I also think there should be diagonal crosswalks at the following key intersections: 101, 105 109 and 116.

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    `The alleys and mews should be opened for "business" allowing restros, shops and other places to grow.`

    we cant barely fill streetside... let alone... but i agree in full.

    `I also think there should be diagonal crosswalks at the following key intersections: 101, 105 109 and 116.`

    concur in full and would also add 97st
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    Diagonals aren't needed at 97th, which is a T intersection. A pedestrian only phase might be worthwhile, as there is a significant amount of turning traffic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    I also think there should be diagonal crosswalks at the following key intersections: 101, 105 109 and 116.
    Wouldn't diagonal crosswalks severely impact traffic movement? All vehicular movements would be stopped for at least 30 seconds for every cycle?

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    ^

    so?

    Pedestrians should be priority downtown followed by public transit then cars/trucks.

    I for one am very much for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedub35 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    I also think there should be diagonal crosswalks at the following key intersections: 101, 105 109 and 116.
    Wouldn't diagonal crosswalks severely impact traffic movement? All vehicular movements would be stopped for at least 30 seconds for every cycle?
    Thats 100% the intent....putting the pedestrian first over the automobile. This practice is becoming more and more popular.

  94. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by deedub35 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    I also think there should be diagonal crosswalks at the following key intersections: 101, 105 109 and 116.
    Wouldn't diagonal crosswalks severely impact traffic movement? All vehicular movements would be stopped for at least 30 seconds for every cycle?
    Thats 100% the intent....putting the pedestrian first over the automobile. This practice is becoming more and more popular.
    This is just common sense if you have people walking around downtown on a nice day it is more than likely they will want to stay downtown if given enough choices for shopping, dining, etc..So having more pedestrian friendly walkways downtown should not be something thats planned for the future it should be a neccessary requirement for the downtown to grow. So yes it should not be a surprise people would rather walk around downtown on a sunny day instead of driving around in the confined space of a vehicle. So much nature and beauty to take in during the summer, why would you not want to be walking around outside...

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    Of course it's common sense, but it wasn't too long ago (25-30 years) that the prevailing thought was to make life for drivers easier at the expense of the pedestrian. There are many of examples of this everywhere from sidewalks removed to increase road capacity, crosswalks blocked / moved underground to improve traffic movement, etc.

  96. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Of course it's common sense, but it wasn't too long ago (25-30 years) that the prevailing thought was to make life for drivers easier at the expense of the pedestrian. There are many of examples of this everywhere from sidewalks removed to increase road capacity, crosswalks blocked / moved underground to improve traffic movement, etc.
    A vibrant downtown needs people and cars, but more people walking around means more business for local shops, etc...Increased pedestrian traffic means confidence in the downtown, a feeling of safety, and vibrancy. If I walked down Jasper ave everyday and all I saw and heard was cars, It would be pretty annoying. So increased use of the LRT, bike paths, etc...will result in a fun and entertaining downtown as opposed to bumper to bumper traffic

  97. #97

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    One of the reasons downtown does not look vibrand is that most of the stores are inside the malls. This draws the people inside so it looks like no one is around. If they had stores where the access to them was from the pavement there would be more people walking around outside. The parking is and issue. Not many women like parking in the covered parking lots as they can be pretty scary. The city centre mall draws a lot of pedestrians of the streets.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  98. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    -moving corona LRT from the north side of jasper to 108st beside the 10830 building
    Thank God for that. That LRT entrance in front of Oil City is a real bottleneck.
    The fat chics outside of Oil City are an even bigger bottleneck. Throw in the regular Fri/Sat night paddy-wagon to haul away idiots and you have yourself a clusterf*ck
    And I suppose your a real oil painting to look at and an even bigger clusterf*ck.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bray88 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Of course it's common sense, but it wasn't too long ago (25-30 years) that the prevailing thought was to make life for drivers easier at the expense of the pedestrian. There are many of examples of this everywhere from sidewalks removed to increase road capacity, crosswalks blocked / moved underground to improve traffic movement, etc.
    A vibrant downtown needs people and cars, but more people walking around means more business for local shops, etc...Increased pedestrian traffic means confidence in the downtown, a feeling of safety, and vibrancy. If I walked down Jasper ave everyday and all I saw and heard was cars, It would be pretty annoying. So increased use of the LRT, bike paths, etc...will result in a fun and entertaining downtown as opposed to bumper to bumper traffic
    Totally agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    One of the reasons downtown does not look vibrand is that most of the stores are inside the malls. This draws the people inside so it looks like no one is around. If they had stores where the access to them was from the pavement there would be more people walking around outside. The parking is and issue. Not many women like parking in the covered parking lots as they can be pretty scary. The city centre mall draws a lot of pedestrians of the streets.
    I am so annoyed that the Rogers Video on 112 St closed their entrance to the street. Any time I rent a movie there, I leave a note in the video case telling them I am not impressed... also that their new hours suck.

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