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Thread: Jasper Avenue Makeover

  1. #1401
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    Keep in mind that these are two distinct projects:

    Imagine Jasper Ave is 109st-124st

    Jasper Avenue New Vision has phase 1 complete from 99-102st and now will moving to phase 2 from 96-99st. It will then have 2 additional phases west from 102st-105st and 105-109 or something like that.
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  2. #1402

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    This includes Jasper Avenue:

    Engage Edmonton 2017 is coming to a community near you soon!

    The City of Edmonton is excited to provide fun and coordinated engagement events throughout November and December of this year. Join us to discuss 14 unique topics spread throughout five evenings.
    Share your voice on many important topics in one convenient location, at one time.

    Locations:

    All events are taking place from 4:00pm - 8:00pm.

    November 14: Southwest Edmonton: Blue Quill Community League (11304 25 Ave NW)

    November 16: Southeast Edmonton: Mill Woods Town Centre Mall (2331 66 Street NW)

    November 23: Northeast Edmonton: Archbishop O'Leary High School 8760 132 Ave NW)

    November 30: Northwest Edmonton: Crestwood Community League (14325 96 Ave NW)

    December 7: Downtown Edmonton: Edmonton Tower Main Lobby (10111 104 Ave NW)

    ​Free food and warm beverages, Les Bucherons Maple Sugar Shack, children's activities and much more will also be onsite for our event!

    For more information visit: edmonton.ca/publicengagement

    If you would like to attend one of theses events and need help getting to the location,
    please contact (780) - 442 - 4382.

    https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/engage-e...ts-39259049875
    www.decl.org

  3. #1403

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    Jasper Avenue New Vision (92 St to 109 Street) Update

    - Concept planning for 96 Street to 100 Street is happening now.
    - This portion is funded and should start construction around 2019.
    - Construction will take 2-3 years/seasons
    - This also includes repairs to the Shaw Conference Centre roof.
    - The scope includes the streets north and south to the lanes
    - 100 Street will have a bike lane that connects to Downtown Bike Grid to the funicular. There will be a temporary solution in place for next year before actual concepts and construction are finalized.
    - 102 Street to 105 Street would be next, coincide with Bay/Enterprise Square roof repairs, next section to 109 Street also includes repairs to Corona Station roof. Both are unfunded, ideally would be completed by 2023 or 2024, depending on City Council budget priorities.
    www.decl.org

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    Good meeting today for the 92-100st section, with 95-100st being the likely next scope.
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    Oh hello new lights on Jasper between 100-102st just in time for Christmas


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    ^ I just woke up at 10:45 this morning. So that's what 8am looks like downtown. Semi retirement is good.

    Not sure what to make of the lighting style though, but I'm sure we're going to get the phase 2 of the Experience Jasper Ave Project next month.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  7. #1407

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    Those would be the most generic and boring lighting displays I've seen on Jasper Avenue which is saying something. Where all the Xnas lights of yesteryears mothballed?

    This is the absolute bare minimum, as in we put up lights and turned them on.

    Whyte Ave not much better.

    Its interesting that home owners get more invested in putting up compelling light displays and the city and neighborhoods less interested.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    I like those displays. The more light downtown in winter, the better!
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    Looks fantastic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Those would be the most generic and boring lighting displays I've seen on Jasper Avenue which is saying something. Where all the Xnas lights of yesteryears mothballed?

    This is the absolute bare minimum, as in we put up lights and turned them on.

    Whyte Ave not much better.

    Its interesting that home owners get more invested in putting up compelling light displays and the city and neighborhoods less interested.
    Keep in mind that the white lighting on Jasper, 104st, 124st, Whyte etc. are all apart of the BIA lighting that the City/Epcor provided. It is not seasonal, but year round.

    The DBA puts up our winter lights around parts of the Downtown, which are the blue white lights hung off of the poles.
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    The City is hosting their first public meeting for the Jasper Avenue New Vision project on January 18th. The details of the session are below.At this event we will be showing the public our draft concept plan between 95-100 Street and asking for feedback and comments. Our concept plan will show some of the proposed changes to Jasper Avenue including wider sidewalks, narrower through lanes of traffic, re-evaluating parking along the corridor and improving safety along the corridor.

    Date: Thursday, January 18th, 2018

    Time: 11:30am-1:30pm
    4:30-8:00 pm

    Location: CKUA Radio Station
    9808 Jasper Avenue

    For more information you can visit https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...ew-vision.aspx
    www.decl.org

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  12. #1412

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Those would be the most generic and boring lighting displays I've seen on Jasper Avenue which is saying something. Where all the Xnas lights of yesteryears mothballed?

    This is the absolute bare minimum, as in we put up lights and turned them on.

    Whyte Ave not much better.

    Its interesting that home owners get more invested in putting up compelling light displays and the city and neighborhoods less interested.
    This makes them almost tolerable as a basic design, but they're still pretty lame. Over engineered and ultimately miss the mark.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  13. #1413
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    Keep in mind that the lighting elements of the new portion of Jasper are 'still in the works', these wrapped lights were requested by me so as to have the main part of Jasper lit until that time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Keep in mind that the lighting elements of the new portion of Jasper are 'still in the works', these wrapped lights were requested by me so as to have the main part of Jasper lit until that time.
    good old edmonton... "still in the works" since february of 2011.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  15. #1415

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Those would be the most generic and boring lighting displays I've seen on Jasper Avenue which is saying something. Where all the Xnas lights of yesteryears mothballed?

    This is the absolute bare minimum, as in we put up lights and turned them on.

    Whyte Ave not much better.

    Its interesting that home owners get more invested in putting up compelling light displays and the city and neighborhoods less interested.
    This makes them almost tolerable as a basic design, but they're still pretty lame. Over engineered and ultimately miss the mark.
    All seems good to me.

    So where do we find examples that would raise the bar of expectations?

    Can you post some images for me to see please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The City is hosting their first public meeting for the Jasper Avenue New Vision project on January 18th. The details of the session are below.At this event we will be showing the public our draft concept plan between 95-100 Street and asking for feedback and comments. Our concept plan will show some of the proposed changes to Jasper Avenue including wider sidewalks, narrower through lanes of traffic, re-evaluating parking along the corridor and improving safety along the corridor.

    Date: Thursday, January 18th, 2018

    Time: 11:30am-1:30pm
    4:30-8:00 pm

    Location: CKUA Radio Station
    9808 Jasper Avenue

    For more information you can visit https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...ew-vision.aspx
    Can someone please explain what possible justification there is for wider sidewalks and narrower roadways along Jasper Ave between 95 and 100 Streets?

    I walk this stretch frequently and the sidewalks are already plenty wide. Meanwhile, the volume of pedestrians is pretty much nil. Today for example, I didn't run into a single pedestrian other than myself walking along this stretch of the avenue while I was passed by many hundreds of motor vehicles.

  17. #1417

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The City is hosting their first public meeting for the Jasper Avenue New Vision project on January 18th. The details of the session are below.At this event we will be showing the public our draft concept plan between 95-100 Street and asking for feedback and comments. Our concept plan will show some of the proposed changes to Jasper Avenue including wider sidewalks, narrower through lanes of traffic, re-evaluating parking along the corridor and improving safety along the corridor.

    Date: Thursday, January 18th, 2018

    Time: 11:30am-1:30pm
    4:30-8:00 pm

    Location: CKUA Radio Station
    9808 Jasper Avenue

    For more information you can visit https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...ew-vision.aspx
    Can someone please explain what possible justification there is for wider sidewalks and narrower roadways along Jasper Ave between 95 and 100 Streets?

    I walk this stretch frequently and the sidewalks are already plenty wide. Meanwhile, the volume of pedestrians is pretty much nil. Today for example, I didn't run into a single pedestrian other than myself walking along this stretch of the avenue while I was passed by many hundreds of motor vehicles.
    Build it and they will come.

  18. #1418
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The City is hosting their first public meeting for the Jasper Avenue New Vision project on January 18th. The details of the session are below.At this event we will be showing the public our draft concept plan between 95-100 Street and asking for feedback and comments. Our concept plan will show some of the proposed changes to Jasper Avenue including wider sidewalks, narrower through lanes of traffic, re-evaluating parking along the corridor and improving safety along the corridor.

    Date: Thursday, January 18th, 2018

    Time: 11:30am-1:30pm
    4:30-8:00 pm

    Location: CKUA Radio Station
    9808 Jasper Avenue

    For more information you can visit https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...ew-vision.aspx
    Can someone please explain what possible justification there is for wider sidewalks and narrower roadways along Jasper Ave between 95 and 100 Streets?

    I walk this stretch frequently and the sidewalks are already plenty wide. Meanwhile, the volume of pedestrians is pretty much nil. Today for example, I didn't run into a single pedestrian other than myself walking along this stretch of the avenue while I was passed by many hundreds of motor vehicles.
    Build it and they will come.
    except when you ignore those who have come and those who want to come the results won't turn out the way they should...

    if it's not done right it will be more like "build it and they won't come".
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  19. #1419

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    When it comes to "narrower through lanes" which seems to be the complaint it's really not about what's happening on the sidewalks. The narrower trafric lanes are really the point.

    On an urban city street there is zero justification for 12' and wider lanes like the city was building 45-50 year ago or whenever this was last rebuilt. Wider lanes just inattentive drivers to go faster with zero increase in safety or capacity, and at the expense of pedestrian safety and convenience longer crossing distance, among other things.
    There can only be one.

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    I’d like to see the street parking by Scotia Place taken away.
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    On both sides in that area. It's a pain to always have to merge to one lane travelling in each direction, on Jasper Ave of all places.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Oh hello new lights on Jasper between 100-102st just in time for Christmas


    www.twitter.com/dbayeg
    Not bad, but what is with the obsession with the cool-white/cold-white?

    I think warm white would have looked better here as a winter warm up. I seem to recall that there was a direction to use warm white in a wintercity plan somewhere as well.

  23. #1423
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    Couldn't the lights be orange/blue in the winter and green/gold in the summer?
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    Those aren’t the permanent light feature we’ve been waiting for are they? Hope not.

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    ​^^^ DING...DING...DING We have a winner !!!
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Those aren’t the permanent light feature we’ve been waiting for are they? Hope not.
    Nope. Temporary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    On both sides in that area. It's a pain to always have to merge to one lane travelling in each direction, on Jasper Ave of all places.
    On street parking is important though. Off peak seems reasonable for how they have it set up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    When it comes to "narrower through lanes" which seems to be the complaint it's really not about what's happening on the sidewalks. The narrower trafric lanes are really the point.

    On an urban city street there is zero justification for 12' and wider lanes like the city was building 45-50 year ago or whenever this was last rebuilt. Wider lanes just inattentive drivers to go faster with zero increase in safety or capacity, and at the expense of pedestrian safety and convenience longer crossing distance, among other things.
    If the City isn't looking at lane reductions, at least that's a relief. The last thing Jasper Avenue needs is more lane reductions like what was done between 100 and 102 Streets that has turned these two blocks into a traffic choke point. If the concern is pedestrian crossing distance, some bulbing at key pedestrian intersections (as already exists in some places along Jasper) is a better solution than lane removal.

    Regarding narrower through lanes, since most of the stretch between 95 and 100 Streets has on-street parking (except for those sections where there is a turn lane), isn't having a wider outside lane a good thing? A wider outside lane is safer for people exiting and entering the driver side of parked vehicles, avoids having to open a vehicle door into a moving lane of traffic and/or motorists accidentally clipping parked vehicles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Those aren’t the permanent light feature we’ve been waiting for are they? Hope not.
    Nope. Temporary.
    Any further updates on the permanent light feature? I thought I we were supposed to have something this fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    When it comes to "narrower through lanes" which seems to be the complaint it's really not about what's happening on the sidewalks. The narrower trafric lanes are really the point.

    On an urban city street there is zero justification for 12' and wider lanes like the city was building 45-50 year ago or whenever this was last rebuilt. Wider lanes just inattentive drivers to go faster with zero increase in safety or capacity, and at the expense of pedestrian safety and convenience longer crossing distance, among other things.
    If the City isn't looking at lane reductions, at least that's a relief. The last thing Jasper Avenue needs is more lane reductions like what was done between 100 and 102 Streets that has turned these two blocks into a traffic choke point. If the concern is pedestrian crossing distance, some bulbing at key pedestrian intersections (as already exists in some places along Jasper) is a better solution than lane removal.

    Regarding narrower through lanes, since most of the stretch between 95 and 100 Streets has on-street parking (except for those sections where there is a turn lane), isn't having a wider outside lane a good thing? A wider outside lane is safer for people exiting and entering the driver side of parked vehicles, avoids having to open a vehicle door into a moving lane of traffic and/or motorists accidentally clipping parked vehicles.
    i'm not sure what they're looking at for lane widths east of 97 street (the original new vision document only went as far as 97 street) but the proposed lane widths for 97th street west to 104 street called for the centre medians to be removed for a shared 3.2 metre turning lane, a 3.5 metre through road in each direction and a wider 4.0 metre curb lane for tansit, shared cycle use and off peak parking. "curb to curb" you're looking at 17.6 metres (57.74 feet) for 5 lanes ranging from 10.5 to 11.5 to 13.2 feet each.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  31. #1431

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    I don't know what the lane widths are now, but those proposed widths are still too big. only wide loads need more than 10', and they should be taking both lanes anyway. The city likes a bit more than 10' for buses because including the mirrors they're close to 10' but 10' would work just fine - evidence is that narrower lanes don't actually increase risk of even the no-injury sideswipe collisions that you might expect.

    And there is nothing worse than the 13-14' wide curb lanes as a cycling lane. They're not wide enough to allow cycling in a safe position and a car other than maybe a smart car with a safe buffer - legally passing a bike still requires moving into the next lane, so you're not gaining anything over a standard-width shared lane,
    only the wide lane encourages faster speeds and makes drivers resent people on bikes who insist on riding where it's safer away from the gutter.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Oh hello new lights on Jasper between 100-102st just in time for Christmas


    www.twitter.com/dbayeg
    Driven down Jasper Avenue several nights and the lights are really nice addition. The ongoing improvements to our downtown are making an amazing difference.

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    Thanks very much.
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    Looks really nice. Things keep improving in my opinion.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    REVISED DATE - Help create Jasper Avenue’s New Vision
    January 17, 2018

    The City has launched the next phase of Jasper Avenue New Vision. Join us to learn more about this project and share what improvements and enhancements you would like to see along Jasper Avenue from 92 Street to 109 Street.

    Date: Thursday, January 18, 2018
    Time: Drop in 11:30 a.m. – 1:30 p.m. & 4:30 – 8 p.m.
    Location: CKUA Event Space, Alberta Hotel, 9808 Jasper Avenue

    Construction from 100 Street to 102 Street was completed in 2013. Construction between 96 Street and 100 Street is scheduled to begin in 2019 to coincide with other construction work in the area. The timeline for construction of the remaining sections has not yet been determined.

    For those unable to attend the event, information and a comment form will be posted online from January 19 until February 2, 2018. Information collected will be reviewed by the project team and, where possible, carried forward into the detailed design.


    For more information:
    edmonton.ca/JasperAvenueNewVision

    Media contact:
    Katie Stewart
    Communications Coordinator
    780-496-4584
    www.decl.org

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  36. #1436

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    I'm not going to attend, but if anyone is going, please make some noise about those stupid light standards with bases that look like cheap tin and take up half the sidewalk.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I'm not going to attend, but if anyone is going, please make some noise about those stupid light standards with bases that look like cheap tin and take up half the sidewalk.
    while i'm not sure what noise levels will be, i'm sure that will be only the start of some lively discussion...

    base building completion for the brighton block will be first quarter of 2019 - only a year away. you should see mobilization on site as soon as initial permits are issued for demolition and shoring.

    from my perspective, the biggest cloud on the immediate horizon for the quarters is the jasper avenue new visioning discussions and plans between 95th and 97th. it is interesting to think about east/west circulation through downtown and the quarters over the next few years if you want to talk about encouraging new development and access:

    jasper avenue is already down to one lane (plus parking and bus layby) between 100 street and 102 street except for rush hour, 101a avenue is blocked by canada place; 102 avenue is now closed completely until 2020; 102a avenue is closed permanently between city hall and sir winston churchill square; 103 avenue is halted at the quarters park and by the law courts; and 103a/104 Avenue need to cope with rogers place restrictions and the royal alberta museum and access from and to our main police and fire station. on top of this are construction closures and access requirements for the brighton block, ucama (hopefully), the quarters hotel and residence, cidex's project at the five corners site, and anything else that moves forward in the area including (also hopefully) the redevelopment of the old prison/rcmp site etc.

    and this is the current background they choose to start to fix shaw’s roof and reduce jasper from two lanes plus parking in both directions to a construction zone with a single lane only in each direction for at least 3 blocks at the very time we will be trying to move tenants into the brighton block. and the proposal is to have those restrictions in place for at least the full 2019 and 2020 construction seasons.

    it's called how [not] to make a neighborhood attractive for new development and new business...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  38. #1438

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    stupid light standards with bases that look like cheap tin and take up half the sidewalk.
    Please over exaggerate more, they dont take up that much space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    stupid light standards with bases that look like cheap tin and take up half the sidewalk.
    Please over exaggerate more, they dont take up that much space.
    i suppose you have to define "that much space" before you would be right or wrong. but even if they don't take up "that much space", they take up some and the benches take up some and the bike racks take up some and the bikes when they're in use take up that much more. then there's the temporary barriers and signboards and a ton of other stuff that's in what space is left and i'm pretty sure there was more pedestrian space and better pedestrian flow before than there is now that we made them pedestrian friendly sidewalks.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    ^Agree 100% with your two posts above. In particular, I'll never understood the point of installing benches no one ever uses for the very good reason that they are mere feet away from moving lanes of traffic.

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    The benches are OK but some of them are poorly located. For instance, whoever okayed installing the large thick bench in front of the CIBC at 101 St should be fired. It's a major bottleneck for pedestrians trying to pass through between the bench and the CIBC building. The bottleneck worsens whenever the friendly neighborhood riff-raff congregates around that bench.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    it's called how [not] to make a neighborhood attractive for new development and new business...


    Perhaps the City is simply trying to balance things out with the High Street charlie foxtrot? May as well drive a bunch of businesses out on the East end of the core as well, right?

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    Sounds like a plan. Drive out all the business except those owned by DK
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    For instance, whoever okayed installing the large thick bench in front of the CIBC at 101 St should be fired. It's a major bottleneck for pedestrians trying to pass through between the bench and the CIBC building. The bottleneck worsens whenever the friendly neighborhood riff-raff congregates around that bench.



    Funny you should mention that.

    Top_Dawg always knows when some government cheque is issued by the cluster of welfare types that linger around like a rancid cabbage fart in front of the CIBC.

  45. #1445

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Sounds like a plan. Drive out all the business except those owned by DK
    Then they should pick a location with more than just a couple operating businesses. Besides the hotel and hardware grill what is there on Jasper from 95 to 97?
    There can only be one.

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    The Hub tavern.




  47. #1447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    For instance, whoever okayed installing the large thick bench in front of the CIBC at 101 St should be fired. It's a major bottleneck for pedestrians trying to pass through between the bench and the CIBC building. The bottleneck worsens whenever the friendly neighborhood riff-raff congregates around that bench.



    Funny you should mention that.

    Top_Dawg always knows when some government cheque is issued by the cluster of welfare types that linger around like a rancid cabbage fart in front of the CIBC.
    That rancid cabbage fart is definitely the combined sewer at that corner. Just vile.

  48. #1448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Sounds like a plan. Drive out all the business except those owned by DK
    Then they should pick a location with more than just a couple operating businesses. Besides the hotel and hardware grill what is there on Jasper from 95 to 97?
    A tavern and a few smaller businesses with some residences above Hardware.
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  49. #1449
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    Silly people. The plan is clearly to congest traffic DT, and with any luck at all, cause total gridlock, thereby enhancing that big city feel.
    ... gobsmacked

  50. #1450
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    Far from. Update the look, feel and ENSURE flow at peak hours, but then allow for a transition on off-peak potentially.
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  51. #1451

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    Wider sidewalk / pedestrian experience in the core and on the City's Main Street = gridlock?
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  52. #1452

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    One of the reasons downtown does not look vibrand is that most of the stores are inside the malls. This draws the people inside so it looks like no one is around. If they had stores where the access to them was from the pavement there would be more people walking around outside. The parking is and issue. Not many women like parking in the covered parking lots as they can be pretty scary. The city centre mall draws a lot of pedestrians of the streets.
    I am so annoyed that the Rogers Video on 112 St closed their entrance to the street. Any time I rent a movie there, I leave a note in the video case telling them I am not impressed... also that their new hours suck.
    Also the insurance company on 105st and Jasper that took over the old HSBC space did the same thing. It's too bad a restaurant did not take over the space instead that open area facing Jasper would be great for outdoor patio tables, but it has never been used for anything as far as I can recall. At least the other side of Jasper across the street is a bit more lively now.

  53. #1453
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Wider sidewalk / pedestrian experience in the core and on the City's Main Street = gridlock?
    Nope. Rampant street closures and ongoing construction of numerous thoroughfares for the next two years at exactly the same time = gridlock.

    Hey, I live there, better pedestrian experiences have my full support.
    ... gobsmacked

  54. #1454

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    Exactly, in a 2-4 years Downtown is going to be amazing.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  55. #1455

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Exactly, in a 2-4 years Downtown is going to be amazing.
    The motto of urbanists in Edmonton for 20 years!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  56. #1456

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Exactly, in a 2-4 years Downtown is going to be amazing.
    The motto of urbanists in Edmonton for 20 years!
    I don't know if those people stuck in traffic gridlock will use the word "amazing". I think it might be something with four letters instead.

  57. #1457

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Exactly, in a 2-4 years Downtown is going to be amazing.
    The motto of urbanists in Edmonton for 20 years!
    I don't know if those people stuck in traffic gridlock will use the word "amazing". I think it might be something with four letters instead.
    LRT into Downtown is completed in 2020, and Jasper Ave reconstruction begins in 2019 and finishes in a few years.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  58. #1458

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    Construction...like a real city!
    www.decl.org

  59. #1459

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    No, real cities tend to manage the inconvenience to their citizenry a lot better than Edmonton does. We've just managed to get the bare basics of keeping sidewalks open implemented...
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  60. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Construction...like a real city!
    Construction isn't my issue. Haphazard - almost neglient scheduling is my problem.

    You know, like the new cycle track on 102 Ave, all nicely paved. Then six months later along comes EPCOR ripping that nice new pavement up.

    Or closing 102 ave at 103 street so that folks can play shinney?

    By all means, these are projects that should get done. Let's just show a scintilla of project management skills.
    ... gobsmacked

  61. #1461

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    I thought we were talking about Downtown congestion / "gridlock".
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  62. #1462
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    Which we could avoid, or at least mitigate with said wished-for scintilla of project management.
    ... gobsmacked

  63. #1463

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    I was half joking, of course construction delays and affects on businesses and residents should be mitigated.

    Microsurfacing isn't that expensive. Epcor work could have been unforseen. It's hard to know the true story there.

    102 Ave was closing eventually, we all knew that. Street hockey is a result, not a cause of that action.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Far from. Update the look, feel and ENSURE flow at peak hours, but then allow for a transition on off-peak potentially.
    If there is a prize for using the maximum number of feel good buzzwords in one sentence, you win.

    There are so many buses using Jasper Avenue right now (exacerbated by the closure of 102 Avenue) that a total clusterf*** has been created on Jasper Avenue eastbound for no good reason. The buses have to stop of course to disembark and load passengers reducing Jasper Avenue to effectively one lane westbound even during peak periods.

    Today on my way to the Jasper Avenue open house, this is what I observed about the lane reduction on the north side of Jasper west of 100 Street. There were about a dozen cars backed up on 99 Street waiting to turn right onto Jasper Avenue but of course they couldn't because it was completely congested with traffic having to merge into a single lane past 100 Street in order to get by the buses.

    Meanwhile the bus pull-in and on-street parking was replaced by benches that are never used, bike stands that are perpendicular rather than parallel to the avenue, and bases for the decorative street lights the size of a kitchen table.

  65. #1465
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    I attended the open house earlier this evening.

    • Such a clusterfunk of sticky notes with half saying to keep up the streetscaping, other half saying don't reduce lanes.
    • Quite a few stickies calling for dedicated bike lanes.
    • Concerns were raised about the timing of this at the same time as LRT and ICE District construction, was told this was to coincide with SCC roof repairs under Jasper Ave that cannot be put off longer.
    • They are going to redo the intersection at 99 St so that the crossings align better with Thornton Court.
    • Street lights will be similar but not the same as the ones installed during phase I.
    • Street furniture will be less obstructive. My least favorite furniture from phase 1 is the big bench in front of the CIBC at Jasper/101.
    • Double left turn from Jasper WB to 100 St SB is planned.
    • Funicular access from Jasper Ave was in the plans but didn't hear what exactly this was pertaining to. Pedestrian overpass from McDonald Drive is not in scope but was suggested on a sticky.
    • My own stickies suggested scramble crossings at Jasper/100 (though it's needed more at Jasper/101) and left turn signalling from 100 St NB to Jasper WB (due to loss of 102 Ave access).
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    So weren’t we supposed to see the lighting feature on the lamps installed prior to winter arriving? Where are we at with those things? Do they even exist? Have we given up altogether?

  68. #1468
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    ...forthcoming.
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  69. #1469
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    Are you sure these things aren’t just imaginary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Exactly, in a 2-4 years Downtown is going to be amazing.
    The motto of urbanists in Edmonton for 20 years!
    I don't know if those people stuck in traffic gridlock will use the word "amazing". I think it might be something with four letters instead.
    Just actively facilitating the conditions to, figuratively speaking: stop and smell the roses.

  71. #1471

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    surprise surprise the city calculates delays to drivers less than the actual drivers.... i wonder who to believe

  72. #1472

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    I'd believe the people with the stopwatches.
    Last edited by Spudly; 27-01-2018 at 08:24 PM.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  73. #1473

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    I'd believe the people with the stopwatches.
    Never saw the people with the stopwatches out there, but then I wasn't out there early morning Sunday.

    There are so many ways to make the data fit your agenda and the current city administration seems very good at dismissing the concerns of citizens. What delays - oh it's just your imagination, now quit complaining because the city knows best about everything.

  74. #1474

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    I'll still believe the folks that made the effort to measure, over those that just want to complain.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  75. #1475

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    i'll believe the folks that actually drive on Jasper Ave.

  76. #1476

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    Truthiness uber alles! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness:

    ... is the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on theintuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic,intellectual examination, or facts.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  77. #1477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    I'll still believe the folks that made the effort to measure, over those that just want to complain.
    why the assumption that those drivers or ets riders didn’t measure/time their trips, sometimes multiple times a day?

    and why the assumption they would make up or report times that are different than reality?

    what would they have to gain in doing that?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  78. #1478

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    to match their intuitions and "feel" right

    I'll assume none of them measure, becuause none of them report their measurements, just their feelings.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  79. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    to match their intuitions and "feel" right

    I'll assume none of them measure, becuause none of them report their measurements, just their feelings.
    assume away... because that way your assumptions will be sure to confirm your conclusions.

    it won’t make them right but it will at least keep them consistent.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  80. #1480

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    people's actions, or lack thereof, are confirmation enough for me
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  81. #1481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    people's actions, or lack thereof, are confirmation enough for me
    fair enough...

    but that does work equally in both directions doesn’t it?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  82. #1482

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    east and west? most likely
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  83. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    east and west? most likely
    no, but that’s okay.

    i’ll just assume you don’t know what you’re talking about because you’re not a city expert with a vested interest and a stopwatch.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  84. #1484

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    A vested interest in the facts (thus, a stopwatch)? I'll go with those folks.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    A vested interest in the facts (thus, a stopwatch)? I'll go with those folks.
    on the assumption that none of those drivers or ets riders had either a vested interest in the facts or a stopwatch and somehow weren’t interested in the facts even though they were directly affected every day whether they were travelling east or west? really???
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  86. #1486

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    When drivers and riders report their actual systematic repeated measurements rather than their vested feelings and anecdotes, I'll believe their interest in the facts, and those facts.

    The east/west thing was an attempt to answer your "both directions" question since I couldn't parse what you meant by "both directions." And a lame attempt to be cheeky.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    The public realm in Kelowna can teach us a thing or three.

















    @ianoyeg
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    ^Sure, do the same thing here on Jasper Ave and so many people will be screaming to the high heavens. It looks nice and there are definitely some basic elements that the city could implement on Jasper ave and throughout the downtown core but some other elements just wouldn't work here.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  89. #1489

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    Where are all the people?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    ^^^

    any idea what the daily traffic count is on bernard street compared with jasper avenue?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  91. #1491
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    A lot of those examples could easily be worked into the downtown in general, not just Jasper Ave.

  92. #1492
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^^^

    any idea what the daily traffic count is on bernard street compared with jasper avenue?
    That's a great question, but anecdotally I would say comparable given the tourism impact and proximity to the waterfront. I really am unsure though and will inquire.
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  93. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Where are all the people?
    It was a Sunday and nice out, so everyone was near the water.
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  94. #1494
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    The almost complete lack of people speaks volumes.

    Truth is,Kelowna is a planning disaster - sprawling all over the valley - it actually doesn't have much to teach us.

    Well, other than the airport - YLW owns that entire valley - even kicks Kamloops butt.
    ... gobsmacked

  95. #1495

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    FYI - The scope of the area under construction next year has changed a bit, it is now 97 St to 100 St. 96 st to 97 st was left out because of construction around Alldritt Tower and Brighton Block would have impacted the public realm.

    There's another open house coming in June, still on track to start construction spring 2019.
    www.decl.org

  96. #1496

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Where are all the people?
    It was a Sunday and nice out, so everyone was near the water.
    You mean they weren't all flocking to/congregating in downtown patios??

  97. #1497

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    Amentities for dogs, amenities for adults, but still nothing for kids. Nice lesson, DECL. It would seem we've already had this lesson here, and apply the silly logic of prioritizing dog amenities over things for kids.



  98. #1498

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    Public realm improvements are sorely lacking in the core and really looking forward to the next phase. It's a shame it'll only be on Jasper Ave, but at least the LRT construction will make 102 ave better and the ICE district will really complete a large chunk of needed public space fromChurchill through the core.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

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    I like the yellow lrt style shoulder extensions in some of the photo's above and the idea of benches would be cool for seniors etc. Personally I'd like to see more of the bench style arrangements like on 107th/124th. Please no more pic-nick tables by the General hospital. Most respondents I spoke with in the makeover project hated the pic-nick tables.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Where are all the people?
    It was a Sunday and nice out, so everyone was near the water.
    You mean they weren't all flocking to/congregating in downtown patios??
    They were all on Downtown patios that had views of the water.
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